APOLOGY

Dear professor:

I read your initial comment many times to make sure  that I am not misunderstanding your intentions. To me your  objection to JJ signing the petition is due to  the name of Qajar dynasty being tainted?

I sense a relation between you and this bygone dynasty. Is this self defense that you are talking about? or clearly lack of knowledge about historical events of that time?

Your rationalisation of the persecution of bahais does not stand a chance , it would be as if the   second generation Germans saying" but they started it first!!". 

Tahirih

Shame it is

Oppression and injustice, in any form or shape, against any group or sub-group,  is a shame not only to one country, but to entire human race.

Thanks for the thread.

Respectfully

-YT

Bahá’u’lláh’s Principle of Collective Security is not "Jihad"

With all due respect to Umm Yasmin.

If Bahais believed in violence as the answer, and practiced "jihad", our Iranian friends would not today be signing petitions in support of a historically defenseless community.

Please read further about Baha'u'llah's teachings with regards to how peace will be attained in two stages of the Lesser and the Most Great Peace, about the principle of collective security, and how nations in the future as truly united family of nations, WILL in the future have to deal with war, aggression and Global issues.

Kindly read more about Bahá’u’lláh’s teachings with regard to

The Bahai Principle of Collective Security

//reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/WOB/wob-52.html

The unity of the human race, as envisaged by Bahá’u’lláh, implies the establishment of a world commonwealth in which all nations, races, creeds and classes are closely and permanently united, and in which the autonomy of its state members and the personal freedom and initiative of the individuals that compose them are definitely and completely safeguarded. This commonwealth must, as far as we can visualize it, consist of a world legislature, whose members will, as the trustees of the whole of mankind, ultimately control the entire resources of all the component nations, and will enact such laws as shall be required to regulate the life, satisfy the needs and adjust the relationships of all races and peoples. A world executive, backed by an international Force, will carry out the decisions arrived at, and apply the laws enacted by, this world legislature, and will safeguard the organic unity of the whole commonwealth. A world tribunal will adjudicate and deliver its compulsory and final verdict in all and any disputes that may arise between the various elements constituting this universal system. A mechanism of world inter-communication will be devised, embracing the whole planet, freed from national hindrances and restrictions, and functioning with marvellous swiftness and perfect regularity.”

Amen!

Amen!

Umm Yasin, The Jihad you

Umm Yasin,

The Jihad you speak of that Baha'u'llah abrogated refers to jihading for the sake of spreading religion. This particular, physical jihad is not present in the Baha'i Faith as it is in Islam.

Self defense of a state or against ones own person is not jihad. Muslim countries and quasi-nation states i.e., Hezbollah, Hamas etc, IRI Iran, consider what they do and what they respond with as Jihad although they have high jacked its original meaning.

Somehow I think you know this but are simply stirring the pot. =-)

Mistaken about abrogation of jihad

Salam!

As Imam ash-Shafi'i once said: "I believe that my opinion is right, but with the possibility of my being wrong; and that the opinion of my opponent is wrong, but with the possibility of his being right."

I find it hard to imagine how Mirza Husayn Ali Nuri would call for the abrogation of jihad in one breath, and establish the right for states to keep forces for the purposes of defense on the other, unless he had an incomplete understanding of what jihad is.

Our scholars have long discussed the different types of jihad, including the type of defensive jihad that a state may undertake if threatened by an aggressor. Surely if he meant to forbid harb, then he should have said as such. Jihad, on the other hand, is a noble undertaking!

Iran Press Watch: Valuable Presence.

Dear Dr Rabbani,

//iranpresswatch.org/ is a valuable and welcome presence in these turbulent days for the Bahais of Iran.  

Your coverage and quality translations of news and articles in the Iranian press has given access to many and highlighted the daily assault faced by Iranian Bahais in the IRI mass media. 

Thank You

faryarm 

Sharm

Follow them, loath them or ignor them if you wish,but the fact of the matter is that ancient religions,throughout millenna,have gained such a mythological status that atrocious acts committed under the banner of all religons were made to look as a matter of course. However,the more recent religons' problem is that they can never gain or claim such a status, therefore they appear, and are treated, more like a heretic cult.And no prizes for guessing how religous zealots treat heresy. If you were of the belief that Messiah or Mahdi,depending on your faith, shall one day descend from heaven,then you would not be very kind to a person, a being like yourself, who claims to be Him or His follower.Be it a divine faith or an Earthy one, for the Bahai faith the added dichotomy has been the 'political' tag attached to it from the very begining; a stigma that has taken the argument beyond the boundries of divinty and made it a political topic, particularly in its birth place. And as old as history itself,in politices,as they say everything goes!Shame.

The Bab

dear delldaar
please open this clip to see how much iranin bahais suffer
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmt681chT8U&feature...

Aziz Samandari

All,

Thanks for this initiative. Eventhough I am not a Baha'i myslef, I am coming from a Baha'i family. My cousin Aziz is currently in Evin prison.

Please join us to help us free Aziz and his codetainees:

www.freedomforazizsamandari.org

Thank you,
Patrick

The whole silent majority of Iran should be ashamed.

LI QAWMIN YAAQI LOON.
As the hadith goes, "man plots and God plots and God is the greatest plotter"(xvi.45;xl,36-38;xxix,39-40). So,Iranians should not be surprised that the destiny they have been carving out for themselves by their own free choice through their mindless persecution of the new truths revealed by His Holiness Baha'u'llah, when they find their long directed base "plotings" are negated by the verdict of history and finally invite upon them and their progeny the wrath of God.They have so soon forgotten that "the tree of religion is ever watered by the blood of martyrs".For,"little are you told"(xxxii,5),
but,"your appointed time shall be neither too soon or too late" (xxiii,43).

Another possibility

Dear Umm:

You sound pretty convinced; however, I recommend you leave open the possibility that the contradiction maybe in your understanding rather that the teachings of the Baha'i faith.

ke

Violence of early Babis

I just wanted to add to my previous comment, that actually there is an early history of violence among some of the Bab's followers. The most authoritative academic historians such as Denis MacEoin note this, and you may be interested to read Abbas Amanat's _Resurrection and Renewal_ as well, HOWEVER, Mirza Husayn 'Ali Nuri (Baha'u'llah) who was the successful claimant as successor after the Bab was executed, totally repudiated any type of militaristic interpretation of the messianic Babi faith, and transformed it into the Baha'i religion. Although he misunderstood the Qur'anic concept of jihad (equating it entirely with jihad bi-sayf), he specifically 'abrogated' jihad and thus his followers have since been pacifists.

There is some contradiction with this abrogation of jihad, and Husayn 'Ali Nuri's statements about future police and armed forces within a Baha'i commonwealth Obviously, theoretically these forces would pursue jihad in the sense of just war in defence of the state - which, as we understand it, is part of jihad. It cannot therefore be abrogated, and is an internal inconsistency within Baha'i teachings, but that is all hypothetical as there is no Baha'i state in existence, and the largest percentage of Baha'is (5%) in any one place is Kirabas - a tiny island in the Pacific that is about to be subsumed through global warming. So, this is not a problem they are going to have to resolve any time soon. But anyhow, I'm off topic.

Video about it: Quenching

Video about it:

Quenching The Light
//www.kdkfactory.com/quench

A long time coming

Assalamu 'alaykum,

I'm a Muslim who was raised by Baha'i parents (I reverted to Islam a decade ago, walhamdulillah). My family are still Baha'i, I am the only one who has reverted, but everything is from qadr Allah.

I have long maintained that Islam and Muslims do not have anything to fear from the Baha'is and their religion because Allah, subhana wa t'ala, tells us in the Holy Qur'an that truth will ever prevail over falsehood. Even if the Baha'i religion was the darkest of lies (which it is not, it is simply a heterodox offshoot containing many of the same beliefs and practices of Islam, albeit one that incorporated and developed non-Islamic beliefs and ideas and emerged in the twentieth century with an independent religious character) then we do not have to fear Baha'is or oppress them.

Allah, subhana wa t'ala also tells us there is no compulsion in matters of religion, and religious freedom is an essential teaching of Islam. For as long as the Iranian state oppresses Baha'is and forbids them their religious freedom, they are darkening the beautiful light of truth in Islam.

If Baha'is did not experience oppression from their Iranian brothers and sisters, then perhaps they would be free to discover the truth of what Islam really teaches, rather than accuse Muslims of being stuck in the dark ages.

Da'wah to Baha'is will never work so long as the Iranian government and the Iranian religious elites systematically oppress Baha'is. How can we share Islam with them, if Muslims are the ones telling lies about them and their religion??

Subhanallah, I am very glad to see this letter, may Allah guide us all.

Great Start!

And so glad, and proud, to see the name of our very own JJ on it as well.

 I hope the trend continues, not necessarily in the form of an apology, but in the shape of reexamining the way we, Iranians, have treated - and continue to treat - several other minorities in our country.

This translation is without appropriate attribution

This translation is mine and was lifted from //iranpresswatch.org/

I have no problem with folks using it, but it is ethical to give proper attribution to the source.

Regards,
Ahang Rabbani, PhD

Perhaps the most important period in our modern history...

It is indeed heartening to see a movement towards recognition of perhaps the most important period in our modern history unknown to the average Iranian. 

Perhaps the most trusted and authoritative text about the Babi Perod 1844-1850 is by Nabil Zarandi called Tarikh Nabil or its english translation The Dawn Breakers

//reference.bahai.org/en/t/nz/DB/ 

as well as The Book "GOD Passes By" covering major event of both the Bab's period as well the beginning of Bahai Dispensation, with the story of Baha'u'llahs arrest as a Babi and his subsequent exile and declaration as promised by the Bab, as He whom God shall make Manifest.

 //reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/GPB/

The Distinguished Scholar Bahram Choubineh (not a Bahai) has given the most unbiased account of the Babi movement , well worth a listen in two parts.

PART 1 

//www.newnegah.org/audio/Choubineh-30-07-2005-Babieh-1.mp3 

PART 2

//www.newnegah.org/audio/Choubineh-30-07-2005-Babieh-2.mp3 

Faryarm

Apology

I applaud the action of these Iranians in signing their names to an apology to the Baha'is of Iran. I'm sure that literally millions of other Iranians in the so-called Islamic Republic would sign their names as well if it did not mean that they would thereby become targets of the regime, of the medieval mullahs controlling the regime, and/or the misguided and poorly-educated minions of the regime.
The Iranian Baha'is that I know have always mentioned the kindnesses of their Moslem neighbours; it seems that it is usually people who don't know them or their Faith who are foremost in hounding and persecuting them - not the Iranians who live near them and who DO know them.
I know no Baha'i people who hold their fellow citizens responsible or who have ill-feelings in their hearts toward the Iranian people as a whole, and, frankly, I find this quite extraordinary.

nice piece of information, about bahai,s of Iran

www.varqaa81.info/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=211&Itemid=99999999
 

Professor..

Please give some specefic referrence about violent nature of Babi movement.thanks

A proud moment

As a human being, a Baha'i' and an Iranian, I am proud that for the first time, Iranians around the globe have publically taken up the cause to demand justice.

Justice for a group which has been denied its rights for 168+ years.

There is no doubt that during this time, individual Iranians and their families whether Muslim, Jewish or Zorasterian, have indeed helped Baha'i' families who where in danger of losing life by providing shelter etc. Selfless acts of help shall and will not be forgotten.

I hope that responders to the original post would use a civil tone for discourse and also stay within the spirit of its intent.

United We Fall...Tesseraic Holism Shall Prevail

The Bahais themselves are not a threat, and should not be treated as such, their way of thinking will actually prevail in the end, although their particular religion may not. The idea has been echoed in many other religions, such as gnosticism, sufism, etc...but the idea of unity as a preferred outcome is misguided, designed by those who have rigged the system into a monopoly game which eventually works against the interests of the many for the sake of a few elite families who don't actually believe what they are preaching in the first place.

Islamic facism is no different actually, by denying more diverse orientations, they ultimately weaken their pool of loyal followers.

While the principles of Bahais are quite noble, the idea that "unity" is an ideal has come and gone, "holism" is the future...every religion/political/scientific/humanitarian paradigm needs to internalize this fact, globalization to create a one world government is not only undesirable, it wouldn't actually work, and would merely be a farce show for general audiences to be distracted from the real important matters.

What the four major religions need to do is retain their individual differences, but maintain a sense of solidarity with certain values which apply to all, there should be fifth, scientifically oriented faith to guide the way into the future, like the prime directive on star trek. All those who want to believe in something other than these five main philosophies should be welcome to form their own societies, as long as the follow basic rules of human rights.

Panarchich Libertarianism is what I call it.

Yes, the IRI will eventually collapse from its own inefficiency, but the idea of a higher ethical standard to uphold the citizens of a culture to isn't wrong, merely the idea that only a strict interpretation of an outdated book will tell them how to solve the problem of the human race over 1000 years later...in that sense, the Bahais have it covered, suggesting like the Zoroastrians that every great periodic cycle a new spiritual leader will be introduced with great insight relevant to problems they face...in that sense the four major religions could work together in determining who and what such a mythical figure would be like.

I've got some distant family who are Bahais, I think what the way they've been treated will only add fuel to the flames of the demise of the current incarnation of Islamic Iran, they will trip over their own arrogance like the dictators before them.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panarchy 

Dear Mr. Fateh, I agree

Dear Mr. Fateh,

I agree completly with your analysis on the history of babis in Iran, but let's please stay civilized in our discussion. The man may only be ignorant and therefore there is no need to use labels.

Respectfully,

Hamid

Professor, you shouldn't be called a man

Professor, please pass some of what you have been smoking.  You seem to have become separated from reality while writing your statements about Babis in Iran.

I am not a Bahai but am married to one.  I have read numerous books, written by Bahai scholars as well as western (non biased) historians.  None has mentioned anything about Babis being proactively violent nor ever in charge of any province(s) in Iran.  The Babis did participated in self defence while being attacked by your great grandfather and his friends.

Like the other poster, I recommend that you revisit your history books. Do it when you are sober and not under influence of drugs.

Also make sure they are not written by anti Bahai elements of IRI and organizations the Muslim clergy have cropped up to fight and oppress Bahais since 1880s.

Instead of commenting like you have and trying to marginalize Bahais by lies, have some guts.  Just say you dislike them.

Or, if you genuinely are concerned for their well being, and well being of other innocents groups in Iran, have the guts to demand from the IRI to give Bahais their human and civil rights.

Good to know

Thank you professor. I did not know that.

I have virtually no knowledge of the history of the Bahai faith, or its tenents for that matter.

My concern is basically this: It is unacceptable to persecute any individual/group for purely ideological reasons. It amazes me that in this day and age a person's existence and citizenship can be questioned/denied only and only because he or she believes in a certain religion.

There are lots of reasons why Bahais are treated the way they are, but NONE can legitimately be used as justification for systematic persecution and denial of basic rights. It's wrong, terribly unjust and shameful.

Babi movement

Hi Professor,

I would reread Babi history. There is a lot of inaccurate information that has been published, which you may unfortunately have come across, unknowingly.

The Bab never incited violence nor did he make reference to non-Babis as heathens. You have to understand, that during a period of 6 years, hundreds of thousands became followers of the Bab. The Bab needed to educate his followers on His new teachings and the purpose underlying His religion. Transformation of that many people takes time, since everyone is bringing to the table their own baggage and notions. For example, imagine during that period of time trying to educate a sincere multitude on the equality of women and men, which is counter to the popular notion and where there is no Internet or radio to assist in educating the masses. It takes time.

There were events where Babis were attacked by religious fanatics and forces of the Shah. In these cases, the Babis protected themselves (i.e. Shaykh Tabarsi, Nayriz, Zanjan, etc).

In fact, on the one occasion when a Babi attempted to attack the Shah, because this Babi had seen the slaughter of so many Babis, Baha'u'llah stated that this attempted attack was one of the saddest events, since this attempted attack betrayed the integrity and dignity of the Babi faith.

Hope this helps. Given all of the inaccuracies that have been published, it is important to understand biases of any intellectual, clergy, or scholar (good or bad biases).

Moreover, in the spirit of the Open Letter, it is important to dispel all of the propoganda that the clergy and others have promoted.

Whatever one feels about the Babi and Baha'i religions, it is important to note the ground-breaking social and spiritual ideas they brought. It should also be a source of pride to us all that something of this caliber originated in our culture and in our country.

Thanks!

Babi insurrection under Ghajars

Dear JJ:

I saw your signature on the apology to the Baha’i community. The only problem I have with this is the phrase on the Babi community and their suppression under the Ghajars. As you well know, Babis were themselves a millenarian and violent minority (actually, from a historian’s point of view, they were quite fascinating) who initiated Jihadi wars against the community around them. Bab had declared several provinces in Iran exclusively Babi areas and ordered his followers to expel the heathens from them. The reaction against the Babis were both governmental and popular. It was a genuine – tragic -- religious war.

Thank you

Thank you for this Open Letter. It was so touching to see that most of those who signed the letter have been champions in raising awareness for the crimes perpetrated against Baha'is. I thank you for your sincere committment to speak out against injustices, whether related to Baha'is or other oppressed peoples.

As the situation of the Baha'is in Iran is quickly deteriorating (more arrests, more vandalizing, etc), your Open Letter presents the opportunity for our Iranian countrywomen and men to lend their voices to stop the government's horrific campaign.

Again, to all that signed the Open Letter and the many Iranians who have spoken out against the prejudice and brutality against the Baha'is, I want to thank you. Your acts are an example to all of us. It is people like yourselves that are the only hope to restore Iran's nobility, dignity, and beauty!