CHARACTER

Rea: You don't know

Rea: You don't know anything about me. I and my family have paid more than our fair show and we're still paying for it but we still haven't given up....

Please don't try to engage me ever again.... 

Reform requires the consent of the corrupt

Parham

If all you know is insults then go for it. When reason runs out insults begin. As for your quote "speak for yourself".

Divaneh Jan

Well said and I agree 100% with your remarks. As an Iranian when I see Bolton and MEK being the other choice I hesitate. You are right a revolution does not guarantee a better regime. I have seen the Brenard Lewis map.

No thanks is what I say to him; Bolton and MEK. Perhaps it is best to wait. The right moment will come and it may take the passing of Khamenei. Better that over Rajavi or breakup of the nation. Perhaps Iranian people know what West is cooking up.

If we just wait America will run out of money and leave. That would be a far better time to change than now. If we rush we might end up with President Rajavi. With Iran turnd into this:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MVsR73pyDCc/TSYKiXCXoPI/...

Do you really want this? Are we again to be tools of anti-Iranian forces. Stooges to do their dirty work. 

No thanks; we take care of our problems. 

And no thanks to bombings!

Divaneh

Problem is, they didn't exactly win on the revolution. There were those who simply took over. And honestly, watch the videos from the period where they were asked to vote for "Islamic Republic Yes or No", and you'll see what I mean by people's cowardice. They could have stopped the bull right at that point, and they did not -- in my opinion, due to cowardice. It was "who? me? I will certainly vote for the Islamic Republic" (while he's wearing a tie with his wife and kid) or "Shah kia? Khomaani khooba!" (while trying to put her chador back on her head after it slips, as usual) and what have you... THAT was cowardice. Take it from there and go on.
And by the way, think of this: Maybe the reason we've had to endure all those things you mention is also cowardice. No friend, the problem exists and its very deep rooted, a lot more than you think. Bravery, "mardanegi" and such words don't really exist in our culture anymore; they're even laughed at. Look at VPK and Rea's comments here! It's all turned to "zerangi" -- to havaye khodeto dashte bash baghye ye fekri vase khodeshoon mikonan...

Prophet and Rea
Like I said, "kafar hame ra ze kishe khish pendarad".

Dear Anahid

You are welcome to do as you wish. I have dreams of Iran and how it was most nights. I opposed the revolution; maybe should have done more but did not. But I see people who actively supported it now out here blasting its victims.

Specially the JM types who still act as if the choice was Mossadegh of Shah. They participated in the disaster then ran off. Now every week I see articles about how great Mossadegh was. But nothing constructive or helpful as what to do now. They expect the new generation to repair their mess. Well I got news when the mess is repaired it will not be JM or any of us. It will be those who are going to take the risks. Meanwhile we sit back here and read more 60 year old speeches.

Self-criticism vs Self-bashing

Whilst it is important to be honest about ourselves and make a dose of self-criticism a tool for improvement, to bash ourselves based on pure assumptions is a sign of immaturity.

I agree that Iranians in general (not all) lie more than some other nations. But I have seen worse. Afghans, Somalis, Iraqis and many other nations are much better than Iranians in lying. They all have one thing in common, they come from dictator ridden countries or societies where one has to fend for his/her own survival. It is true that corrupt governments come from corrupt societies, but it is also true that a corrupt government destroy the good values and makes the whole society corrupt. We have had many years of that contributor.

The other contributor to this nasty trait has been Islam and the concept of Taghia in the Shia Islam. Pre-Islam Iran may have had many problems but it showed a great contempt for lies.

Dear Parham

I disagree with you about cowardice and I am not in denial. I have also seen people that you have pictured, but to generalise is to go too far. A nation that has had 2 revolutions and many upheavals in 100 years and has fought an 8 years war that was imposed on it, is not a coward nation. The last revolution however taught us that winning does not always guarantee the right result. Iranians are just more cautious now after they see that the sacrifices that were made 32 years ago have all been in vain. People don’t want to die? You bet. It however does not mean that people will not put themselves in danger where they judge it to be of benefit to themselves and others.

Anahid, I just found a good and true quote onlne

Anatole France, a winner of the Nobel Prize, stated, “For every monarch overthrown, the sky becomes less brilliant [less glorious and beautiful], because it loses a star”–a powerful force for good.

Certainly the truth for Iran, I would add a force for Peace in addition in Shahs case, to go from Aryamehr to Khomeini.

dear VPK, it is fine for me

to sit here and say that they are cowards. i did what i could under circumstances to better my life and they should do that too. until when people in iran want to be mostly silent and let few brave souls like hila sedighi, majid tavakoli, nasrin setoodeh do all the work for them? until when they have the heart to see bodies hanging from cranes? until when can they take the rape and torture? if they don't care enough, what are we supposed to call them? you get uposet when people criticize iranians but there must be somethinbg wrong with a nation that can live under iri for 32 years. many benefit from its backwards laws. the educated middle class guy who cheats on his wife with a sigheh is benefitting from a backwards society, etc. etc.

Siamack and rea, don't you think it is more useful to ask

Why are some Iranians resistant and unNaturally defiant of the truth?

Isn't that a better thing to focus on than the ones who are liars? For example, the truth, not only are monarchies generally representative of the richest nations on earth, but "the most stable, socially just and free countries in the world."

see what people miss out on tangeably when we think of being resistant to the truth.  Being resistant to the truth may well be a by product of a liar frame of mind and showing little integrity, but not being aware of truth is just as hurtful as lying in Iran's case.  What do you think Rea, Siamack?

: ) ladeedadeeda  lala laaaaaaaaaaa

The act of lying typically is in support of the act of Zerangi

Unfortunately, what Simack is saying here to a very large extend is true and I believe that is one of our greatest weaknesses that just as our zerangi typically catches up with us individually, it catches up with us and has a [negative] effect on us collectively.

  Sadly we don’t realize that by trying to fool others, we are fooling ourselves the most. And even more sadly, just as IRI seems to be incurable, for many of us this disease also seems to be hard to get rid of

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad

Rea

You stole my comment. ;o)

My apologies great minds think alike!

VPK

You stole my comment. ;o)

Late here, nite everybody. 

vildemose

Due respect, but.

Don't you think is a bit easy to talk about cowards while sitting in the comfort of your US home, having no fear somebody is gonna come knocking on your door in the middle of the night.

Re: Cowardice

Folks all who think Iranians back are cowards now. Will you be going back to fight the IRI? When are you heading back! It is really simple to sit back in total safety. Then badmouth those who have to put up with IRI on a daily basis.

How many of you were involved in supporting the revolution? Now sitting back here and passing judgment on Iranians back home. This is becoming another shameful blog. 

Get up; go and fight the IRI. Or stop complaining about others being cowards. No one is stopping you from getting on a plane and going back.

Vildemouse, on a large scale it also has to do with the

tyranny at work, some are amazingly courageous, yet most hold their heads down in total fear, because they have children and loved ones they care to see alive, tyranny & IRI visciousness is no doubt a big part of it, if they were not so dominated and could produce a leader their courage would be greater, but its still tyranny.

In other places they had organization and leadership, in tyranny their neighbour is an informant and they act visciously on the smallest things.

Art of spinning

iranians are good spinners. l

Dear ParhaM: I think the reason why the

I think the reason why the only opposition inside the country (or what's supposed to be "opposition") is also part of the system is this cowardice. People just cling to "soft" elements of the same thugs not because they have something to say, but because they're too cowardly to really stand up, and to do that together. And this sort of thing has become norm and even promoted. It would be "insane" to do it any other way. "Baba mage divooneyi? Vel kon..."

You hit the nail on the head. That's whay the "opposition" do not come across as genuine or mardomi. That is why they are ineffective though the discontent in Iran among the workers has reached its critical mass. Cowardice is the right word.

Reform requires the consent of the corrupt

..........

.............

Dear Anahid

I'm glad you do.

On Iranians big massive Lies creating coup of 79

Iranians on this site have compared Aryamehr as a dictator compared with Ghadafi, now you tell me, these western living people have tough conditions to force them to lie????? I just can't buy that line VPK not at all.  I agree with sociology reports that say it is infact cultural, there are people in far tougher situations than iranians were in in 1970's iran that were not primarily such liars, their societies do not reward zerangi as much culturally.

Take a look at todays news on Ghadafi, below.

A mass grave containing
1,270 bodies has been found in the Libyan capital, Tripoli, according to
the National Transitional Council (NTC).

The remains are believed to be those of inmates who were killed by security forces in 1996 in the Abu Salim prison.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-15055109

The liars compare shah to him tell me how honest you think that is, forget the nonsense on stealing billions for a man that gave his own properties to 25,000 farmers and made it possible that millions of farmers their own land, this is what they say, you can not deny it, or do you?

Calling bambi/the shah a dictator, tyrant, megalomaniac is either western motivated interests at work on misinformed people or a shameless lie.

Dear Parham, great comment, the one titled Obviously

i agree with your comment. you see it well.

Responses

Rea: you are absolutely right on this.

Amirparviz: I expect nothing less from an Englishwoman. The English have been looking down at us since they knew us. What a surprise! I just speak for myself. I have met Iranians who are honest and dishonest. In fact sometimes the same person. Depends on what the situation is. No dishonesty is not an "Iranian cultural thing". It is a human thing when going is tough people lie. To deny it is to deny reality. 

Golshifteh Farahani on Why Iranians are good liars ...

VIDEO : Golshifteh Farahani Explains the Iranian "system" reflected in the movie "About Elly"

Dunno if it was a Coincidence or not that she starred in a Body of Lies ?… ;0)

Banned Hollywood Dream by DK

An English man who used to live and work in Iran and married

an Iranian women said to me lying and peoples disingenuous gossip was a major factor in the coup of 1979.  John said many countries get good management from time to time which results in external opposition forming, but In Iran the lying was the achillies heal of Iranians which lead them to losing their king.  The opposite of lying is having integrity and this means instead of being zerang sticking with the truth and playing within the rules for all.  Integrity leads to wisdom and if the society had wisdom then the coup of 1979 would have been impossible no matter how much force was behind it.

Those of us that can identify with the truth John shared with me, lets look towards the solution and discuss democracy based on the thinking of some of the worlds most enduring and important thinkers.  http://www.iranian.com/main/blog/amirparvizforsecu...

P.S. I do believe that democratic principle is essential for the future of Iran, because of this very reason of lying.  Democracys like secular democratic constitutional monarchys tend to produce the wisest societies where people have greater integrity.  I do not buy that everyone lies in the same amounts, too much social research refutes that.

Parham, our people are sick and literally crying for help, compassion requires we do something for them, but never at our own expense or by putting ourselves in too much unrealistic danger, the most one should do and not cross the line is what JJ's site does.  Kudo' to JJ.

Lying is universal

Loved the "stroke story".

When I was younger I used a mini skirt argument when dealing with traffic police officers. Hélas, in the meantime, I got older and they got replaced by younger ones, so that argument doesn't work any more. Nowadays I tell a story about my husband (who I no longer have) beating me up and how I'm on the verge of suicide. It works sometimes. ;o)

So, lying is universal. When it comes to surviving, both literally and figuratively, we are all artists.

Obviously...

... I'm not talking about those in prison, Jahanshah -- although a lot of those in prison don't dare criticize beyond a certain level either. I'm talking about a collective trait. And nowhere did I talk about a genetic trait (where did that come from??). Let's face it, it is part of our culture to view not getting involved or stepping back as "zerangi". It is viewed in our culture a "zerangi" to just get the most out of any situation and step back: Let the "others" suffer the consequences, If I am zerang, I'll just take my benefit and not get mixed. Who cares? Har ki vaseye khodesh. Goore babaye baghye. mage oona baraye man chikar kardan?

That, to me, is cowardice. There is no other name to it. And if you tell me that's not part of our culture, I will tell you that you have a major denial problem.

I think the reason why the only opposition inside the country (or what's supposed to be "opposition") is also part of the system is this cowardice. People just cling to "soft" elements of the same thugs not because they have something to say, but because they're too cowardly to really stand up, and to do that together. And this sort of thing has become norm and even promoted. It would be "insane" to do it any other way. "Baba mage divooneyi? Vel kon..."

And worse is, in a way they're right! Who wants to stand up for people like that? Who wants to trust them enough to put their own life on the line? Not too many...

So true...

he showcased his God-given talent of bullshitting, which happens to be the most important asset in most Iranians’ arsenal.

Lying is a big part of our dogma that has practically ruined our lives and our country.

I say lying had a major part todo with the coup of 79 and betraying king and country. Dictator, crook, murderor, megalomania.  No serious person with out a motive would describe Iran of the 1970's or the shah that way, only people who mostly did not personally know or work with him and opposed him made these things up.  Repression existed minimally compared with the entire region.  Iran was truly going on a path that was better than the entire middle east. Lying is Shameless, yet people who did not personally work with the shah do it all day and night 24/7/365.25. 

Admin

Don't know why my post came out in this format. Any idea?

You Know Siamak...

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I seldom leave comments here at IC, but I am getting really
sick and tired of you. You write one “Iranican” book and all of a sudden you
are an expert in Iranian culture? Do you think you now have jumped to the other
side of the spectrum to the light and left the rest of us “bad lying inferior
Iranians” on the dark side ?

You come here on IC and bash Iranians and their culture
every chance you get. You call them inferior to Arabs because they are having a
‘spring” and we are not. Are you f…g kidding me?

Iranians have been fighting for their right and democracy
over 100 years now starting with Mashrootiat revolution. They had the first
democratically elected government in the Middle East 60 years ago. They had a revolution 32
years ago and kicked out a dictator, long before Tunisia, Egypt or Libya. What
you see in Arab countries is a brand new phenomena started just recently. Up to
this year, any changes in Arab governments took place at the top with bloody
coups. By contrast, Iranians have changed governments by popular uprisings long
before Arabs realized such thing is possible. Yes, this is not the government
people fought for, but that’s another story.

Now you are coming here yet again and trash all Iranians and
their culture as of a lying-no-good bunch of people inferior to everyone else, especially our blond, blue-eyed friends in Sweden and U.S. The LA freeway scene you
described is not unique. Similar incident
happened to one of my American (Anglo) friends and he got away with not getting a
ticket. Should I call all Anglo-Americans bunch of liars or call them of a "defeated culture"? 

Grow up, Siamak.  Put down your latte and think before you write. Don’t let your inferiority
complex get the best of you. 

Regards,

Oon Yaroo

You mean I overpaid for that large screen TV in NYC? When I paid them 3000 $ for a 40 inch LCD? Darn; I knew there was something fishy about the deal :-) But the salesman had such an honest face!

I would add nature of the lie also depends on who you ask. If you ask a woman her age and she is over 40 you get a slap or a lie. No matter what nationality or race. If she is pretty I rather get the spank! But that is just me.

When I went to college in USA my father had some big lawyer go with me. It was his American friend and wanted to "watch over me" the first day. We spoke to an admin lady who told me to do all kinds of things. I just shook my head and said "yes mam". The American lawyer later pulled me over in surprise and asked me. "Are you really going to do all those things she told you?". I said  no but it is easier to agree and get the paperwork done! He told me "I see you learned this at an early age".