Iran my Mother Land

Q: a nice self biography and

Q: a nice self biography and self introduction to your type. But you forgot to put the most important lesson and conclusion at the end of your piece. Here, this way it would be more complete Q self-biography

Q wrote:

“The problem is "harfe moft" or (it's) American equivilant "talk is cheap" or "Armchair General." …. hold back those who are actually productive.

Snap out of it.” Therefore, in conclusion, we must help and support any action that results in strengthening and prolonging the life of a true Iranian representative regime, the circus of mullah regime called IRI. (daddy send more petro dollar money, I am working lots of overtime here)

See, isn’t this a better conclusion than just “snapping out of it” and more fitting of your argument?

My advice to innocent readers: when actions are doing more harm than good and creating the adverse effects than originally intended (giving benefit of the doubt to the intentions of course) then they must be stopped and the idea and plan behind them must be revisited and revised.

Nevermind

I was going to post something really really good on this topic, but I was afraid that it might get censored, so I decided not to.

Historical oppotunity for us

In a perfect world what you purposed would be a perfect solution but we don’t live in a perfect world. We have limited time and opportunity to make the most out of and maximize our chance of achieving our objectives (ie free Iran and bring democracy and HR to it). Removal of IRI and freeing iran is the absolute prerequisite to brining democracy, HR, rule of law and the rest of all good things to iran.

Most foreign powers and their strategists (eg, brezenzski like) want IRI (their investment and creation) to remain to continue returning maximum profit for them, they think they can contain this savage beast and keep it on a short leash and occasional disobedient can be deterred and tolerated. Then there are a few others who surprisingly are the hard core neocons it seems, out of vanity and some out of religious/ideological convictions think having this beast is no longer necessary. First they think they no longer need to keep this savage beast and their military and technological might is enough to keep others in place so no need for proxy/puppet regimes to suppress the progress of others especially now that the danger of communism is gone as well, second this wild beast might someday turn around and bite off the hands of its masters holding it on a leash, therefore the risk is no longer prudent.

As for us, Anyranians(?) we have a historical and a small window of opportunity to achieve our most difficult objective and prerequisite to our democracy, that is removal of IRI and defeat of most foreign powers desire of keeping them. Oddly, our interests have aligned with the most radical and undemocratic group of the bunch in power right now and seems ironic to be so. But I say we have an advantage and can act very opportunistic here to gain a lot a and lose very little to them. US military is stretched thin and there are not enough troops for a full invasion so most military engagement will be aerial attacks and special ops. Neocons days are numbered so they might remove the IRI but they won’t be around to complete the conquest and mess things up like Iraq and we can achieve the second round of our objectives working with, and pushing the next administration to bring true democracy and secularism to Iran and ultimately major progress without their meddling much in internal affairs. This is obviously a risky plan but I am heavily relying and counting on Iranian people but I absolutely trust them and I know they can do this and not end up someplace like Iraq and Afghanistan. Honestly, do you believe Iranians are the same as Iraqis or afganis? At the time Iraq and Afghanistan were being mapped out by british and giving the title of a country we had a working constitution and a damn good one by even today’s standards. Our people have had 4 major revolution seeking democracy and rule of law in the past 100 years. Which other country can even claim that in their history let alone middleast. We are not Iraq and never will be. Our people know democracy, human rights and rule of law. There won’t be suicide bombing or insurgency in Iran, our people won’t even tolerate it for a day. All criminals will be eradicated within the first month and the rest who survive will be on the run. Every IRI thug and murder have been identified and marked in their neighborhood. They will be begging for mercy and forgiveness. They are stiff scared now even from a few thousand unarmed students or women on the streets protesting much less when and army of millions of Iranians would be hunting them down to repay for their crimes for past 30 years. I believe in our people, I absolutely do.

I never advocated war on Iran or bombing of it. I advocate surgical military strikes against IRI, IRI, IRI with intention of regime removal and not just nuclear deterrence. Is that clear? Why you people always equate that to IRAN, they are not, maybe in your minds they are and that would be a whole different discussion. In particular, military targets and their oppressing arm Sepah must be hit. With their oppressing arms and thugs damaged and on the run, Iranians will have more courage and better chance of removing this regime. Once a second front is opened with IRI, it cannot exclusively concentrate on oppression and its war against Iranians and its killing/torture machine of Iranians will be halted and rendered ineffective.
IRI =/= Iran.

re: Salar

Salam,

Thanks for your response.  I understand we are all busy and have lives apart from Iranian.com, but I encourage you to take a closer look at my post.  I rejected apeasement, saying that a "China Model" of total normalization without Human Rights would not suffice.  I agree that HR is not a real priority for hard-nosed Realists. They care about American strategic interests and that's about it. This is a problem.   

But you clearly stated you favored a military solution to the plight of our people.  Call me "confused, paradoxical and uninformed", but I cannot help but learn the lessons of our Iraqi neighbors.  

Visualize a suicide bombing in parke-mellat, a blown up buss overturned near vanak. Imagine an errant American bomb falling on our bAzare bozorg. Imagine the looting, the American tanks in our streets, the tribal fragmentation, the ethnic war, the convergence of terrorists the world over on a Shia country ripe for the depopulating.

No, there is precious little you can say that would convince me, and most Iranians, that war is the answer here. Sometimes it is. This time it's not.  I don't trust even the most well meaning American government to "democratize" Iran. They simply don't have the know-how to get the job done, and they never did.  In my opinion, the best thing America can do for our country is to:

• Step away from war.
• Make sure we meticulously adhere to its own HR standards (eg: symbolically closing Guantanamo, banning torture), therefby restoring America's moral authority.
• Preach and raise awareness about the HR situation in Iran
  making HR a condition for granting economic incentives.

Certainly, I'm no diplomat. I don't know how best to craft an economic/poltiical strategy of "principled engagement" with the IR that is compatable with HR promotion. All I do know is that warmongering and (misdirected) sanctions have not, and will not take us one iota closer to the kind of Iran we'd like to raise our kids in. 

----------------------

I must respectfully disagree with your view of Iranian Shi'ism and the IRI. As far as I have read, Khomeini's ideas represented a break with traditional Shi'ism in Iran. The concept of velAyate faqih was nowhere near resolved among Shiah 'olamA in the runnup to the revolution, let alone during the two centuries of Safavid rule. Arvand Ebrahimian's Khomeinism sheds more light on this.

As for Hallaj, I can only say you have good taste!  I'll admit I am still too intimidated by the size and scope of Massignon's classic biography of this man to have begun a serious reading of it, but maybe I'll give it a chance!  Perhaps one day, when Baghdad is not a hellish nightmare, we may even be able to visit his shrine.

The problem is "harfe moft"

or it's American equivilant "talk is cheap" or "Armchair General."

It never fails. I know too many Iranians who get together, sit and bitch heartily about the regime, Islam, whatever they can think of to blame things on. But ask one of them to risk the smallest thing to help change those things he was bitching about? You always get excuses, crying, bullshit. Their own lives and businesses, academic careers, what have you is just way too important to jeapoardize by actually accomplishing something. So they are left to reclaim their manhood the only way they know how: knocking down other people who are actually getting things done.

If you don't like what NIAC is doing, don't join it. Find own organization and devote 100% of your time to mullah bashing.

If you don't like Iranian government, go back to Iran and help change it. Show some courage, live by your own advocacy. Don't sit on your behind hoping a foreign military will do the hard work.

If you don't like fascism, don't practice it. Other human beings are allowed to have their own set of priorities. What they would like to accomplish with their lives and what they think is important to peace and humanity. If they don't agree with you on your priorities on what's best for Iran and Iranians, that's not a crime. Just because they don't have your plan in mind, doesn't mean they are bad people.

Stop acting like a fascist and attacking anything and everything that doesn't match your own world view. Work for your own priorities and let others achieve theirs.

Instead what we have today is a bunch of lazy fascists who refuse to get their own hands dirty but also want to hold back those who are actually productive.

Snap out of it.

All Iranian Muslims: انالحق انالحق, اهدم الکعبه

Iranian muslim: where should I begin? You are an exact profile of NIAC supporters. Confused, paradoxical and uninformed. Thank you for your piece, it is truly an eye opener for the rest in doubt and I shall save it for good use later.

I am fully aware of Brzezinski/British “appeasement/maximum profit out of IRI possible so keep them around” policy. Three years ago there was a two day conference in DC on Iran and nuclear issues and same people were at work over there. In fact one of the speaker who used to be an advisor in the administration before on Mideast affairs with his thick British accent literally said “according to our analysis a democratic Iran would be much more dangerous than what it is now”, that says it all, doesn‘t it? I am sure many of your kind attended that conference and none picked up on this and asked absolutely nothing from this guy after his speech. Bunch of you so “scholars” sitting there started asking some absolutely obvious, useless questions. Then Mr Brzezinski program started giving his spiel on appeasement and reforms and the regime is really deeply entrenched blah blah. He talked about IRI as though a mother talks of her ugly child and proud of it. No wonder, he created that bastard child with euro h***s.

As for Mr Reza Pahlavi, he rendered himself useless when said “people must decide and whatever they decide it is fine with me”, well what about leadership and giving courage and being active? Basically he said I am no leader material, if people decide to make me king and role out that red carpet, if it is absolutely safe for me and requires no risking my royal neck or requires no effort, maybe I’ll accept. Well tell his royal highness next time you see him(?), people of iran are busy getting their throats slashed and eyes cut out, so it’ll be a loooong while until they can decide and get back to him.

See, I am no monarchist, marxist, MEKist, islamist etc etc. my political affiliation is the interest of Iran and Iranian people. First Iran, second Iran, third Iran. If interests of Iran and Iranians are served by making deals with the devil himself I would do it. I don’t bring my personal religious or ideological beliefs, or lack thereof, into the equation.

And finally, as for your religious identity, if your shiiasm comes from Bayazid, Hallaj, Sohrevardi, Attar, naser khosro, ghazali etc. then you have gravely misunderstood the concept. But if your shiism comes from shahid aval va dovom((?) and mullah’s imported from Jabel Amel in south Lebanon and their during shah Esmiel and the rest of safaviyeh, then IRI is direct result of the shiia Islam and it is not an anomaly. It’s been in making for 500 years and if not for Iranians like me who stood against it with their blood, IRI would have happened much sooner.

مدل اسلام من آن است که آن بزرگوار شهید در پای چوبه دار عرب از دل فریاد زد:

انالحق انالحق, اهدم الکعبه

Against NIAC = Pro-War

It seems to me that all those who attack NIAC here, by falsehood or "suspicions" and are trying to bring drops of doubt into our minds through such dishonest statements, are trying to promote the idea of war on Iran. Their statement is that if you support re-establishment of US-Iran relations, then you are anti-war and of course they don't say that, they say that you are pro-IRI. So in the words of Bush the idiot, "you are either with us, or against us." What these individuals are saying is that if you are working to prevent war on Iran, you are preventing IRI to be removed - so their view is that Iran must be bombed and anybody who does anything that could delay that is a supporter of IRI. What a twisted and dishonest logic.

IRI must be removed through all possible means

Those who think IRI regime will be removed through negotiations and nice talk are fooling themselves.

There needs to be a force. This regime only understands one language and that is the language of violence. But they are akhunds and the will change path quickly.

Iranians must unite and as Salar says the must form a united front.

I agree we need a much more powerfull obby group like AIPAC that is clear in what it wants and is not afraid addressing issues that realy is the key for free Iran.

Zendeh Bad Iran va mardome Iran

To Salar

My religious identity is hardly relevant here. Though I'd be more than happy to discuss it with you sometime, honest. That said, it was never a foregone conclusion that Iranian Islam would produce the IRI. That's why the IRI is an anomaly in the history of Shi'ism.

Yazdi (if you are referring to Ebrahim Yazdi) currently lives in Iran, and risks his life by repeatedly calling for freedom and democracy. To accuse him of "saving the IRI's behind" is inaccurate to say the least. Feel free to pile on the charges against Yazdi if you like. I'll be happy to categorically answer each and every one of them.

As for your call for war against Iran, I can simply say that the experts I have talked to about this both inside and outside Iran (not people like Podhoretz or Morris who are not Iran experts) agree almost universally that it would be calamitous for Iran and the region. Reza Pahlavi, also an Iranian Muslim, agrees that war is, as he said it, "unnecessary". Zbigniew Brzezinski, whom I spoke to yesterday, suggested that a war with Iran would really only benefit Russia.

The reason why I oppose an American attack is precisely because I know that Iranians cannot fight a two front war, one against America and one for human rights. A war would, without question, strengthen the hand of the government and provoke a nationalist response. Even Ahmad Batebi, who was brutalized by this regime, said he would go back and fight for Iran it she were attacked from the outside.

People who live in Iran, who know the situation there, agree almost unanimously that violence will not benefit human rights in Iran. Even sanctions (if they are the wrong kinds of sanctions), hurt ordinary Iranians.

I support NIAC because they recognize this. They see what has happened in Iraq, and they know that an Iranian democrat can not, by his/her nature, be an advocate of violent regime change.

Lastly, with all respect, it is really quite unfair to expect more American families see their children suffer and die so that Iranians can have a change of government. Americans are good people, but they have no obligation to solve our problems for us when their own people are suffering here at home. cherAqi ke be khAne ravAst, be masjed harAm ast.

Jamshid, Amir, Iranian Muslim!!

I have said this before but say it again. There is no path thru reform to take velayat to democracy, it was tried for 16 years, it failed, it has always failed in history against any regime claiming its right from divine power, much less IRI that claims IT is divine power. People of Iran cannot confront this brutal regime alone, there is just no way. Every voice of dissent, however apolitical, has, is and will be choked by IRI torture/killing machine before it is even raised, tongues are literally slashed by razors (rememebr osanlu) and eyes are literally cut out (koyeh daneshga tir 78) asking for minimal raise or food instead of garbage in university’s cafeteria. Students are raped and journalist’s head is smashed for taking an innocent photo. And these are the ones which make it before the public eyes, many more horrific cases happens by great numbers and remain unknown. That’s why it is imperative for anyranains living abroad to push for military action against IRI with clear objective of IRI removal and not for just nuclear deterrence, in particular, military action against IRI oppressing and killer arm Sepah. That is the only practical way to help Iranian people to remove this regime. IRI knows this an does everything in its power to prevent it. They know very well Iranian people are their number one enemy and if they get the chance they will tear their regime apart within a week. With their oppressive arm damaged and on the run, the regime will collapse in a heartbeat and people would get more courage and breathing room to finish the regime off. This is where I have to disagree with you Jamshid, I think when Yazdi and Velayati come out of the shadows to do some serious saving IRI’s behind, then the threat has moved to removal level and IRI is really feeling the threat of extinction is imminent.

Iranian Muslim: wish lists aside, you can’t have your cake and eat it too. Much like your character name your wish list is paradoxical and contradictory. Perhaps you need to start with yourself and if your name is a representation of your convictions then you need to understand that Iran and Islam when mixed and blended thoroughly together then IRI would be the juicy result. See we are trying to get away from that blend as the mix has not really been a sweet deal for the Iran part in history. Also by your own kinds fabrication of history , Islam has been a liberating change for Iran! and yet was an external threat. You need to educate yourself my friend.

Last but not least, I think we do need an Anyranain AIPAC. We can learn a lot from Israelis and much like them we must push for the help of most powerful nations to help us remove the Arab occupation of our land. Sure, like Israel if they do help us, they help for their own interests but like Israelis, we would benefit too. We must push for their interests to align with ours. We have matured morally a lot in the past 30 years. It is time to mature politically and start thinking and acting in practical terms and keep our fable ideologies for our own personal amusement.

Amir, thanks for your great article and sticking your neck out for all those voiceless Iranians under occupation of IRI regime. We must make NIAC supporters (the uninformed ones, not the IRI supporter crowd, they already know) understand that once a country is under occupation, it is by default in state of war already. If they want to do something against war then start by pushing for the end of IRI occupation and war against Iranians.

Removing IRI is my #3 priority....

My #1 priority is preventing an American or Israeli attack on Iran. This is because the consequences of such an attack would be a disaster for the region.  The nationalism of Iranians in Iran would be inflamed, and the situation in Iraq and Afghanistan would take a sharp turn for the worse.  Do not forget that Iran is a part of the region and what happens to Iran will effect others. 

Also, history has shown that liberal change rarely occurs in the face of external threats.  Thus, if you believe in a democratic future for Iran, you must begin by taking military action off the table. which is what NIAC is trying to do.  

One needs but peer across the Shat al-arab and to see how the suffering of a people under tyranny pales in comparison to their fate in a warzone.

My #2 priority is Human Rights in Iran.  When the threat of war has subsided, the world should begin making increasingly stringent demands of Iranian leaders on Human Rights, tying those demands to economic incentives.

The nature of the Iranian system is only a tertiary concern, albeit a concern nonetheless.  I do not want a "China model" for Iran where the system plods along and remains undemocratic.  But my concern is more with the behavior of the Iranian government than with its organization.  Also, not living in Iran myself, I cannot really tell Iranians in Iran how to run their affairs. Ultimately Iranians will have to acheive this change for the themselves, one way or another.    

Well said Salar

The IRI is indeed at war against the people of Iran. They now want to cause another limited foreign war to solidify their position for another 30 years.

to Salar

Thank you and that is what I am saying.

If we are pushing to stop the war against Iran, then provide us with alternatives for removing IRI.

And Mr. Parsi needs to be more vocal about IRI crimes against Iranians, which I have not ever heard from him saying that.

We all Iranian-American living here have left our country because we opposed the regime. We are yearning for the removal of the regime, so how can we do that.

Why no one has an answer to that? How can we remove IRI regime?

No. 1 priority and interest of Anyranian

let them be called Eyeranian, Iranian-American, Iranian-Italian, Iranian-xxxian and all other kind, is the removal of the occupation and invading force aka IRI from their homeland. You create an organization that does this and does this RIGHT and all 70+ million Anyranian will support and join, not just by their blogs but with everything they’ve got including their lives.

Iran is already occupied by an oppressing, anti-Iranian, anti-democratic, fascist force that openly and viciously practice crimes against humanity every single hour. People of iran are in constant state of war with this regime and are brutally put down by their killers and thugs. You tell me which one of these are not at war with this regime, students, teachers, workers, lawyers, nurses, women, writers, journalists, intellectuals, on and on? They lose their lives everyday in this battle against this occupying fascist force. So the very idea of an organization having its number one mission being to prevent war with “Iran?” is preposterous at best and only assures another front is not opened against IRI so it can continue its war against Iranian people and its occupation of Iran. If NIAC wants to serve Iranian’s interest and is against war then push for the end of IRI war against Iran and Iranians.

Amire be ensaf

who said that IN THE ARTICLE you claimed NIAC is supporting IRI?

the claims was made outside of this article.

how about PAAIA why not join them?

How can anyone show you

How can anyone show you proof of NIACS shady activities when you delete them immediately. You are a joke.

Amir jaan

Aghayeh Amir Nasiri,

There definetly needs to exist an organization that represents fellow Iranian's views on what is happening in Iran and what must be done to change this corrupt government. I agree with you on that! 

But that is NOT what NIAC is for. You're hoping for a separate organization, but please understand the mission of NIAC. It's very clear. Those of us who love our culture and heritage, but cannot see ourselves going back to Iran, we must live here and make do with what we have here. We are using up the resources of the land here and must act as good citizens so that we get a say in what goes on in this country. Right now, we have very very little say in what happens in this country. And by 'this country' I mean the United States, NOT Iran. NIAC isn't supposed to be an organization that comes up with an agenda of changing the Iranian government. They are not even allowed to do that by LAW. Why do you put them in that box? 

So please be clear about what you are hoping for. You are expecting a great organization to come and be the voice of Iranians that want to see the IRI removed. Why doesn't such an organization exist? Because the grim reality is that Iranians have disagreements over what the solution is. The Mojadehin have their way of thinking, the Shahanshahi's have their way. Other political groups come and go, but none can claim to have all Iranians voice, unfortunatly. But NIAC isn't out to become that organization, it has a much more attainable goal: to get Iranians living in America to realize how much power they have as US Citizens and to mobilize them to take action.

So please, enough with the NIAC bashing. Its a non-profit for crying out loud. 501(c)(3) reallly makes it hard to be a mouthpiece for an extremist government! You can see its budget and where all its money is going to. are there any other organizations with such a high level of transparency? Give me a break.

Having said that, if you have PROOF of NIAC involved in shady business, please go ahead and share it with us. If there is no evidence, there is no WMD. 

Great article. NIAC gives

Great article. NIAC gives legitimacy and legality to the regime of Iran, no doubt about that.

Great article. NIAC gives

Great article. NIAC gives legitimacy and legality to the regime of Iran, no doubt about that.

Insults and Accusation

The theme of the Article was reasons for "why I am not supporting NIAC"?

1. They are not open/Transparent
2. They do not criticize the IRI and their crimes against Iranian people
3. They say no war against Iran but they do not share an alternative to remove the fascist and dictators from our land
4. Their mission and vision is unclear
5. They are doing things on their own without getting Iranian community participated
4. Their supporters can not hear the other side and accuse anyone who criticize them as Israeli, Jew, Zionist, shahi, MEK etc. (by the way I am neither)

In the article never NIAC was accused of been supported/collaborating with an IRI.

Everyone knows IRI regime has killed millions of its own citizens and continues to do so. Who is there to stop them? No one talks about it. We need to let the whole world know about their crimes. We need people who support and have economic interest to stop trading with these criminals.

IRI regime is anti-Iranian and it is a dictatorship that will last another 100 years if there is no real solution for removing them from power.

NIAC if it is an Iranian organization and talks about justice and fairness for Iranian, and tries to prevent a war against Iran. Then they must talk about the crimes committed by this regime against their own people.

NIAC Rocks

NIAC is the only organization, at this point in time, trustworthy enough to be respresentatives of most Iranian-Americans. No one that I've met in that organization likes the IRI. Their anti-war stance is a direct relfection of the majority of its members, who have overwhemingly voted against a war with Iran. Being anti-war does not mean you are pro-IRI. In fact, it usually means the opposite. The IRI thrives on confrontations and conflicts to use as excuses to keep their power. 

NIAC does not represent Iranians in Iran. We all care about our family in Iran, but NIAC's mission is to focus on how Iranians can establish themselves and organize themselves here in the US. 

 You are more than welcome to, in fact encouraged to, attempt to create your own organization. But believe me, if you care about the betterment of you and your children here in the US, building an active Iranian-American community will be to your benefit, and NIAC is working on exactly that. 

 If you want to better the state of affairs of Iran, you may want to go live there, and make way through the corrupt system there while keeping your integrity and morality intact. Its a tough job, and it takes tough-minded people (like Shirin Ebadi) to be able slowly bring about irreversable change in Iran. But there is no other way to create an independent, truly democratic, and sustainable Iranian government. (In my humble opinion)

Eiman

NIAC is not an HR organization, and that's O.K.

NIAC should not have to do everything before it begins to do anything. An organization must be focused to be succesful, and NIAC's focus is on war prevention.  Why does this draw the ire of so many Iranians?

Amnesy International and Human Rights Watch have been comprehensively tracking IRI violations for decades. I know for a fact that NIAC's Parsi has a strong working relationship with these organizations. Do we need an Iranian clone of AI and HRW? Perhaps, but why condemn NIAC for not being one?

NIAC does not represent "Iranian Americans", nor should it. Like all organizations, NIAC represents those who support its goals (preventing war) and means (lobbying). I support both, which is why I support NIAC. 

We Deserve NIAC

The energy and efforts of NIAC, namely, peaceful dialog as the opening to US relations with Iran, sounds like a good idea (not the only or possibly the best idea, but a good idea nonetheless).

However, NIAC is merely the outcome of the traditional Iranian National habit and syndrome of mistrust of fellow Iranians, especially the general population, leading to a group of well-wishing do-gooders taking on the un-earned and illegitimate responsibility of "saving us all" unto themselves.

NIAC and every single other non-profit foundation like it, are merely applying the same old "build it and they will come" or in this case, "Trust me, we can do whatever we want, don't worry, they will come around, Iranians like to be led" strategy.

A no brainer really, I mean it's worked on us for 2500 years. 

And whatever you want to whine about it, the real fact is, that we the common self-intellectualized rabble have absolutely no proof whatsoever, that this strategy won't work this time again.

Sure, it sounds funny, but there's absolutely no historical evidence or proof otherwise. Which is entirely our fault because we never get involved en masse.

The only way to find out if there is a better way, is to actually join NIAC and be suspicious from the inside. Sniff around for the "Aha! I told you so" from the inside. And of course we are all to busy/lazy to do that. Better to sit from the sidelines and complain about the unusual smell coming from that general direction.

That is precisely why all the rumors, contentions, accusations, and implied irregularities of NIAC are nothing more than that. No one has anything on them that they are willing to go to court and stand up with, and until that happens, I'm afraid NIAC is going to continue to be about as accountable to Iranians as Cyrus the Great was.

Until we get involved and poke around and ask for accountability and proof of strategy, expect American politicians who are even more gullible than we are, to give these kinds of orgs credit and worse, the microphone every chance they get. And who can blame them? After all the "National Iranian American Council" sounds really cool and legitimate enough for an idiot senator from the south.

What lazy whining bitch cowards we all are!

You Can't Always Get what You want

Why I do support NIAC

Folks, of course NIAC does not represent all Iranians or Americans. No organization does that. There are lots of factions among Iranians here in America and other places. NIAC does have a strong record of trying to bring understanding between Iran and the West especially America. Is that bad? I don't think so. Then why are some people so afraid of NIAC? And why do some people keep using lies and slander to trash NIAC?

I keep reading some people making allegations about NIAC's funding. But NIAC's funding is transparent and available on its web site along with its tax returns. Their funding sources include National Endowment for Democracy which is to my knowledge not a part of the IRI. The skeptics could go to the web site and find out the information for themselves. Unless they are not really interested in any information and are only interested in slander because they feel their agenda threatened by NIAC. NIAC is reaching out and trying to broker peace by showing how reasonable people on all sides can find common ground. That is what threatens unreasonable people the most.

Recently Dr. Parsi wrote a joint paper with Mr. Ben-Ami a former Israeli minister. Then NIAC held a conference featuring Senator Dianne Feinstein an influential Democrat. Neither the Senator or the former Ministers work for the IRI. What is so bad about this? Do you guys prefer more saber rattling with the possibility of a full scale shooting war? Maybe some people do, but I do not. I would love to see Iran have a secular democracy but a shooting war is not going to get us there.

oh my GOD Jamshid!!! are you serious?

First of all Jamshid, if I made those claims, then you have a right to demand tha tI provide concrete proof. But I think you don't make a distinction between general falsifiable statements and tautologies, which are true by definition.

Example: All beer drinkers drink beer.

This is a tautology.
A Monarchist means someone who supports a Monarch. It's a built-in definition. It's very logical to derive:

- A Monarchist prefers Monarchy
- A Monarchist prefers a Monarch.
- Reza P. is considered a Monarch.

However, the 99% number is not proven. We can safely assume a majority on definition, alone but any number, like "99%" requires proof in this case, since there are enough uncontroversial exceptions. There are "Iranian Monarchists" for example that are Qajarists. Some also consider Reza P. impotent but would like a Monarch to rule Iran anyway. This creates doubt as to whether these people are 1% or 5% of the Monarchist population, for example.

The NIAC situation is completely different. If NIAC's definition was an organization to "support" IRI, you would have a tautology just like the Monarchist case. We could argue about 99% or 98% at that point too, but a "majority" could be assumed by such a definition.

Unfortunately for your (baseless, tiresome and illogical) argument, that's not the definition of NIAC. If you want to say, they are supporting IRI even though that's not their function, then you need proof.

You got neither definition, nor proof.

The majority of IRI supporters also support NIAC.
Absolutely unproven, false, slanderous and libel. Your analogy with Reza P. fails.

So you have nothing. See my previous post. Nothing has changed. You continue to "believe" in "facts" that are backed only by your imagination.

Q, prove that the

Q, prove that the following senteces are true:

"99 percent of Iran's Monarchists support Reza Pahlavi."

"Reza P. is almost exclusively supported by Monarchists."

Provide "concrete" and well documented evidence that the above two sentences are true. Since you can't, then according to you, we can conclude that Monarchists don't really support Reza Pahalvi. However, if you can prove it, I am willing to take a look at your proof.

Alternatively, you can stop dancing around your BS to deny the undeniable:

The majority of IRI supporters also support NIAC. This may not have been NIAC's intention, but still NIAC needs to launch a PR damage control campaign to gain the rest of Iranian Americans' trust.

Jamshid: you live in a fantasy world

where your imagination determines facts.

Your latest response demonstrates clearly the psychological and sociological problems that lead to this behavior: You simply cannot distinguish reality from your own imagination.

An accusation has been turned into fact by your brain. Your personal prejudices are so strong that you can't understand why people just can't take your word for granted.

It's very very simple.

No amount of dancing around with words would change the fact that the majority of IRI supporters also support NIAC. Again, this may not have been NIAC's intention, but it is a fact.
It is not a fact. You disagree? Just tell me how you know this to be true? Tell me how you know that "99.9%" (your first accusation), "almost exclusively" (your second accusation) or "majority" (your current accusation) of NIAC support comes from "IRI supporters" ? How do you know any of this?

When you go through this simple excercise you will realize that it is only your imagination, suspicion, personal feelings that tells you so, nothing concrete because you have no evidence. This makes your accusations slanderous.

just keep your mouth closed, as you have hurt their cause in this thread more than anyone else.
I'm glad you care so much about NIAC. I'm not here to "do" or "prevent" damage to any organization. However, I think when people read this thread and find out by the end of the day that accusers like you cannot for the life of them back up their wild assertions, it will actually help the organization.

Re: Q

No amount of dancing around with words would change the fact that the majority of IRI supporters also support NIAC. Again, this may not have been NIAC's intention, but it is a fact.

Your ranting doesn't change facts. Also, if you want to help NIAC, just keep your mouth closed, as you have hurt their cause in this thread more than anyone else.

Lastly, one can go on forever and argue about this. However, there is a better way: Just wait for the results of the NIAC's law suit. Many things would become clear then.

I say if NIAC scares the ZioNazis and MEK so much

then we should all join - that alone is a valid reason!

Jamshid, it really is amazing!

Q, you resort to fallacy when you are cornered. This exposes your intellectual weaknesses.
Jamshid, you resort to calling something fallacy when you can't find any other argument against it. This exposes your total lack of understanding of what fallacy means.

NIAC is supported both morally and financially by IRI supporters.
Maybe so, if you can show some proof. I don't have a problem believing this noramlly, except that it came from you, a known liar. But your original statement said "almost exclusively" that normally means around 90% of NIAC support (however, you have generously claimed 99.9% based on pure bullshit). Do you have the evidence for this claim or was it a lie? simple question, you can't answer. Your obvious and childish arrogrance does not even allow you to admit any mistake. That's what makes you so predictable.

You claim this is a lie. Where is your proof?
You claim you understand logic? Why don't you understand the fallacy of negative proof?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_proof

See what I mean, when I say you don't understand?

Many IRI supporters gather in there to pray and so on. The mosque is financially supported by them. Is this an accusation against the mosque?
It's an accusation for sure. It's a false one, and possibly slander, if you can't prove it.

are you admitting to the fact that IRI supporters are so rotten that any associations with them is considered so terrible as to become a serious accusation?
No, I'm not admitting this. Some are good people, some are bad, but in the current US climate, they are all considered "rotten." But the slander comes in when such an accusation is made in order to damage someone's reputation, which it will to NIAC. It's like calling someone homosexual in Texas, a "Jew" in Nazi Germany or "Bahai" in Iran. Not bad things objectively, but meant to attack the reputation of the person given the governing system.

Instead of answering, you threaten me with legal jargons and the possiblity of a lawsuit.
Didn't threaten you. Just layed out the facts. If I talk about a crime in presence of a criminal, he/she may feel threatened, but that's not my probelm. Libel and defamation are prosecutable offenses. That's a fact.

It is amazing how you and your ilk have crushed any voice of opposition in Iran,
Who are you talking about. Who is my ilk? How have I "crushed" any voice anywhere? Provide proof. I'll wait.