Show Me The Money

Malekeh

Rush Limbaugh?

What on earth does a radio personality in Florida have to do with a New York senator in Washington publicizing unqualified comments on a savings and loan in California?

And you have the audacity to call me naive?

I have been in the field of consumer finance for over 20 years, Malekeh. I link people who have money with people who need money. Thankfully, I have been pretty damn successful at it, too. My area of expertise is repairing the damage people have caused themselves because they don't know what they are doing. People who when it comes to borrowing or managing money either fly by the seat of their pants and act impulsively, or listen to these "talking heads" on television or radio thinking, "hey they're on TV, so they must be experts!"

The one thing that can be said about all of these talk shows is that they are full of it. They are not paid to dispense advice. They are not paid to share their expertise. They are not paid to impart their wisdom.

They are paid to sell advertising on the radio or tv station they're on. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

While IndyMac, like many lenders, suffered losses related to defaulted mortgages, these losses alone were not enough to cause a complete failure of the bank.

Imagine if you will, the four legs of a chair. The loan portfolios that have been performing as originally contracted, are Leg#1. Cash deposits on hand, Leg #2, and other miscellaneous assets are Leg#3. The fourth leg, the non-performing loans, was the weak leg and it broke.

If you take one leg from a chair, depending on its design, it can still stand upright. Make some repairs, (new investors, liquidating some assets) and the chair can be made sound and sturdy again.

Instead, Schumer took it upon himself to determine the fate of an entire bank, their depositors, shareholders, employees and their families and kicked out another leg (the cash deposits on hand) with his letter to the OTS.

The chair (IndyMac) collapsed. Now the taxpayers are stuck with the bill.

Do you get it now? 

To: Kaveh

I may have been able to have figured out why you are naiive and so stuborn on your (wrong)  information.. If you are watching just right or left wing media (or listen to their talk shows) you are missing a lot. Here is my experience: Talk shows by the rightists and the so called "conservatives" are mostly filled with "mis information". The reason is that they are being pushed by Rs to get their man (JAMC) elected and they do anything to make that happen. Why do you think an idiopt like Rush Limough gets a 5 year $400 MILLION DOLLARS contract? You really think he has accuracy and trust in his remaks? Then you are naiive. The reason is that there are bunch religeous zealots who listen to him and to them he is GOD. Unfortunately in the area where I live, there are no "left wing" radios to listen to. Therefore I don't know the extent of their accuracy. I mostly trsut whhat is written on the web, and specially news papers, and some of the TV analysis that are done by "old hats" and can be more trustable. You need to know ALL SIDES of an argument before you can pass proper judgement.

I don't watch a 30 seconds egment to decide about anything. Good try, but wrong again.

Have a cold sharbate limoo

For the naive!!!

Henry Paulson the former 10 yr CEO of Goldman Sachs was appointed as treasury secretary....there were $5000 champaigns opened that night in goldman sachs... So being on a finance commitee or any other,  doesn,t necesarily mean impartiality...how do you think wall street finds out about big boeing deals with the Air force a day prior to any official government release? I tell you...by the senators on Defence commitee in senate..

When the time was right The big boys were rescued with tens of billions flush of liquidity authorized by the former CEO.& associates.Discount rate lowered..Fund rate lowered..liquidity was offered at unbelivable discounts...you got lots to learn yet..why do you think Elliot spitzer the governor of new york was outed pants down with the prostitues? because wall street wanted to return the favour to him for stalking them 7 years earlier as NY attorney general...Wall street will bring you down if you fuc with them...even if you are a big shot governor...

Malekeh

I have facts to support my position.

Not to mention statements from the Office of Thrift Supervision, as well as several economists and banking experts.

My "familiarity" with this system far exceeds what you think you know by watching 30 seconds of CNBC.

To: Kaveh (Re: Shiny Head)

The oversight committees for the most part are SENATE responsibility. Senators chair and run them.  Prior to 2007 these were MOSTLY run by Rs (not all) due to their majority. The root of many of the problems we are facing NOW and will be facing in the FUTURE goes back several years to BIG FRAUD's presidency and R's majority in senate where these OVERSIGHT responsibilities were abrogated.

Happy Learning (if you are !)

(I lost my hair because I wanted to know better, not because I used vajebi on it!)

Shiny Head...The Glare From Your Own Scalp Blinds You

Either that or the lack of hair implied by your screen name has allowed harmful UV rays to penetrate clear to your brain.

I have two words for you..... HAIR CLUB.

He acted on his own. IndyMac is not accoountable to the U.S. government. Only to accountholders and stockholders.

And again, I ask....who is this "we"? Speak for yourself. No one appointed you spokesperson.

K.N.

Obvioulsy you are not very familiar with the system. Posters are pretty much on target on this issue. You may want to read them carefully.

Good Luck. 

Shiny Head

Democrats control Congress.

There was no failure until Schumer wrote his letter and publicized its contents.

Therefore, your argument is invalid.

IRANdokht

Good queston about Freddie and Fannie. Being that they are U.S. Government sponsored enterprises there has always been taxpayer involvement. I have always favored the private sector. My position is that Schumer didn't act on behalf of the committee. It was the Charlie Schumer Show the whole way.

The oil prices have gone up largely because of speculators. The bubble went from tech stocks to real estate and now oil. Being that oil dropped $16 since Wednesday may signal a positive change.

As to monetary policy the system is simply too large and complex for one person or small group to manipulate so readily. It's function of a variety of factors. The White House actually has very little to do with it, regardless of who occupies it.

Irandokht

What did I write to Kaveh that was so offensive? Pleas enlighten me. And, did you read his posts addressing me? Did you find them offensive? Be fair. I had to respond to him

(So you are the one who causes me all that trouble! wink , wink)

Have  a cold Sharbat

Shiny

Although we might agree on some political points, I certainly do not appreciate your method of addressing other members here.

It's a shame when someone who can write in a professional and elegant manner expressing valid views, would resort to bad-mouthing, name-calling and cherto pert instead.

I already flagged one of your comments to Jamshid on a different article, and I would continue to do so, if you do not address others properly and respectfully.

Thank you

IRANdokht

Dear Kaveh

My point about the committees and sub-comittees was that Senator Schumer is allowed to comment on financial matters because of his position in those committees. Reading your first response, it sounded like you did not see him as someone qualified to do so.

About the failed policies: I didn't say it was Greenspan's fault. I said he bent in backwards to serve this administrations flawed policies. I don't think him having chaired the Fed. Reserve during Clinton is relevent to the point I am trying to make.

you said: But look at the price of oil. That money is going overseas, unlkely to
return. The price of oil being what it is has a greater negative effect
on the economy than the real estate situation.

You're right, the price of oil does have a very large effect but why is the oil rich area of the middle east in such chaos and instability right now that is known to be one reason for the jacked up prices? and how come since the price of oil started rising the oil companies here announced record profits quarter after quarter? also one last question: where do you think the money for the oil ends up? which countries banks hold Saudi Arabia, Iraq and many other countries' money?

all this aside, I am curious to know how you feel about the taxpayers money saving FreddyMac and FannieMay.

Thanks

IRANdokht

To: IRANdokht

IRANDOKHT,

I think this is what is happening to poor Kaveh. Since "W" (the big moron) came to power the relevant committees and subcommittees of US congress DID NOT hold few if any "oversight hearing and investigations" of any sort. This is something that by constitution they had to. Experts would tell you that these hearings are in control or subject to MAJORITY in congress, and however it worked because of R's in power did not do their jobs. So this poor  Kaveh does not understand the system of oversight and why the failure is fundamental and not a senator's fault . We may let him live (wrongly) in his fancy little world, or we may try to help him. It is all up to him.

regards...

To: Kaveh (re: If you knew the first thing about it, you'd know

You say (a lot of garbage), but also:

>> .... , you'd know that Schumer acted on his own when he sent that letter to the OTS ad publicized it. The people, especially the ones with money in an IndyMac account, had no say in that decision.

We say:

No he did not act on his own.  As committee chair he is responsible to probe and report and send alerts.. We are not talking about ACCOUNT HOLDERS IN THAT BANK as those referred to in the democracy, we are talking PEOPLE, as THE PEOPLE OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA.

(Again, this is something that for novices like you don't make any sense. My observation is the same as before... you are familiar with a shah appointed by CIA system, not PEOPLE's government -- which is hard for you to comprehend -- give it a few years, you may learn!)

Have a cold Dough (or cold hendevaneh)

I agree with you in theory,

I agree with you in theory, but....

 1- there is a fire

no... not necessarily and in this case, no fire.  smoke maybe, but no fire.  and the adage "where there's smoke, there's fire" won't fly either.  i've burned many a pot and not yet set a fire....:-0

2- he wasn't the one who started the fire!

directly?  perhaps not... but he was a vital cog in the machinery that created this mess.  and Indy wasn't "doomed" until he pointed fingers.  "speaking" of the situation was one thing but he specifically targeted Indy when they were NOT in that bad a shape.  there are many debates on whether or not Indy would have survived without the deposit run.  my point is simply that it was premature and irresponsible for schumer to have pointed that fatal finger.

What you won't find me arguing with in any way shape or form is your comment regarding the "flawed policies of this administration".

Irandokht

Very few, if any of these senate committees and subcommittees are chaired or staffed by people with actual practical knowledge of the issue for which they have oversight. Virtually all of these senators are lawyers. Those on the banking committee are not bankers, those on the agricultural committees are not farmers, and so on. 

The Federal Reserve was chaired by the same man, Alan Greenspan throughout Bill Clinton's adminstration. He served nearly twenty years. So if you are going to blame the White House, blame Clinton too. He re-elected Greenspan TWICE. The White House doesn't set monetary policy. Monetary policy is set by the Federal Reserve.

Schumer yelled "fire" but was there really a fire? Not really. There is volatility, but it could have been managed. The economic system is designed to handle this. It's overloaded right now because it's happened so fast, but it will correct itself. In this real estate situation, all of the money that is made and lost is staying for the most part in the U.S. It's just moving around.

But look at the price of oil. That money is going overseas, unlkely to return. The price of oil being what it is has a greater negative effect on the economy than the real estate situation.

Many financial institutions have had and are now experiencing difficulty. The system is designed so that it can correct itself without government involvement.

Schumer "called 911", and singelhandedly took $1.3 billion out of the market in 11 days. This money could have been used to help create a long-term solution for IndyMac. This would have prevented the FDIC (aka TAXPAYER) involvement and would not have instilled unnecessary fear in depositors.

I'm not blaming a political party. Just him.

We? You have a mouse in your pocket?

I know what committee the moron sits on. It's the same committee that oversaw the implementation of the same types of loans that have come under scrutiny.

I will type this slowly so you can understand it:

He is one of the overseers of the very system he helped oversee the creation of. And now he is trying to divert attention away from the mismanaged investment banks and hedge funds in his home state and their role in this mess.

You obviously have no clue what you are talking about, Shiny Head, so it would behoove you to go find a thread on this website that is more to your comprehension level, like a recipe for kalleh-pacheh or something.

I will challenge you any day and anytime to a test of knowledge regarding this democracy, which for your information is not a democracy, but a federal republic. 

You already blew it when you said the people govern and not individuals. Your comments have already proven to me that you speak without knowing the first thing of what you are talking about. If you knew the first thing about it, you'd know that Schumer acted on his own when he sent that letter to the OTS ad publicized it. The people, especially the ones with money in an IndyMac account, had no say in that decision.

American-Wife joon

The whole attack on senator Schumer about this issue is outrageous.

He's on the finance committee, the chair of one of the subcommitees of the Banking, Housing and Urban affairs, and the chairman of the economic committee. If he's not qualified to speak of the financial issues we're in more of a mess than we first thought!

This country that was once, not long ago, enjoying a soaring economy and $2 Trillions in budget surplus is in debt and facing recession and very tough economical times... Instead of putting the blame on the flawed policies of this administration and the fed. reserve bending over backwards supporting them, the republicans are blaming anything and everything they can on the Democrats.

Even if Schumer was yelling "Fire" in a crowded theatre, we have to remember two things:

1- there is a fire

2- he wasn't the one who started the fire!

This is just like blaming the person who calls 911...

IRANdokht

To: Kaveh N. (your depth???)

You say:

>>Confused? Not in the least. A New York senator has no place commenting about the well-being of a California savings and loan that has no branches outside of California to begin with. .

We say:

 He is chair (or ranking member) of the finance  and banking oversight. He has every right to (not that I care one way or another, but this shows your lack of information and shallowness in sometimes dealing with complex issues, honey) . My imagination from reading some of your previous posts is that you think there is no responsibilyt for the prople in  a nation (or you cannot comprehend what it MEANS and HOW TO DO IT). Like the shah's era when only a CIA-appointed idiot could decide for everyone with NO ACCOUNTABILITY, and people had no role. This is not unlike the argument I read from some of the anti-Iranian parasites who criticize, but don't know a thing about what can lead to what, and why..... So it is foriegn for you to know that in a  democracy, PEOPLE GOVERN, not individuals. Surprise, Surprise...

Shiney

Please don't blame Kaveh if you don't like my comments...

Certainly a compliment to me but you're doing him a great disservice (my being a woman and all).

:-)

Samsam

You are indeed on to something. Question is, will there be an inquiry to his potential involvement with these hedge funds or their managers, or will it be quashed?

I doubt if Schumer would allow his personal finances to be audited. But I have no doubt that they would show ties to this mess he created and that he is personally benefitting from it.

Shiny

Is your middle name "Empty", perhaps?

Your grasp of finance and economics are amateurish at best. That's OK. The world needs cab drivers and carpet salesmen too.

Confused? Not in the least. A New York senator has no place commenting about the well-being of a California savings and loan that has no branches outside of California to begin with. If Nancy Pelosi or Diane Feinstein had made the comments, it's an entirely different matter.

IndyMac wasn't even on the FDIC's list of struggling institutions until Schumer sent his letter to OTS Direftor John Reich.

Charles Schumer is an attorney by training. Not a forensic bank examiner. Like most of those on Capitol Hill, his payroll is deposited directly into his checking account. You will never find him standing in line at the bank with his constituents or anyone else.

Charles Schumer has proposed a government bailout of subprime mortgages. This would benefit lenders and the hedge funds on Wall Street (located in his home state of New York, mind you). Again, why was IndyMac singled out by him when there are other lenders  and hedge funds that were in greater financial distress before IndyMac? IndyMac specialized in "Alt-A" mortgages. That comprised the bulk of their portfolio.

Lastly, don't go comparing this to my position against the IRI, You made a complete fool of yourself, showing the entire world wide web that this subject matter is above you. The IRI denies Iranians basic human rights and freedoms. Charles Schumer did the same thing as yelling "fire" in a crowded movie theater. He's a known publicity whore, who enjoys seeing his name in the news, acting like Gary Cooper, shooting from the hip without looking.

I can easily see why you like Schumer, Shiny.

You have something in common.

Neither one of you knows what the hell you are talking about.

Kaveh..As an one time heavy active trader, I can tell you

He is a semi hired hand for big hedge funds who by "Momentum trading"  short the stock in the way down..then cover the position make zillions and re enter a long position when every one else gave up & panicked ... pump the same stock via media & sites and carry the wagon up the hill again..make some zillions and dump it again.some traders use quantum trading and spread  trading and some in commodity trading do it by shorting the far east exchange Equity and covering it when NYE opens in the morning. Go to Yahoo finance & briefing.com and see how the game is played.I traded over 11000 index stocks mostly on Nasdaq & NYE ..some for 20 seconds and some for hours or days..and lost a huge fortune..A trader dude from Morgan Stanly once told me ""Goldmans , Jp Morgans,Diamond star hedge funds & the gods of wall street always win because they have 3 things you average traders don,t have...Money,Time and the Media"" 

American Wife !

Kaveh,

You don't have to pretend to be "American Wife". We all know you (although if you were a woman, I woun't mind).

Anyways whoever you are, this is the first time I have seen an economic analysis of the banking and financial situation the way you described it (I am glad I did not read Irandokht's analysis! that you refer to and I won't! apparently it will be a waste of time). Somehow, the wolrd of economists and those of us amatures who know something about the economy think that the mess was started by easy money credit and careless mortgage and loan extensions by financial institutions. That would be called RISK. Most economists believe that recession happened as a result of that. Thanks to brave souls like Senator shummer for alerting the public.

Shiney

While I can appreciate the principle that you speak of, the real issue here, I believe, is the careless way... the destructive thoughtless (or perhaps intentional) way that the situation was encouraged.  Many many banks and financial institutions are in a precarious situation right now due to circumstances less to do with faulty practice or high risk ventures and more to do with the coming recession (if in fact you don't believe we're already in one).  IRANdokht covered virtually every contributing factor.  It's simply that it might have been avoidable given time and without a panic run by members. 

If I had money in that bank .....

I would be sending letters of appreciation to that senator. Isn't that what open and democratic society all about? All of a sudden when it is IRI, you expect and open, democratic society behavior, and when it is US, you have a different view!!! Are you confused baby Kaveh?  or just a hypocrite?

I am a little confused

Are you saying that all of IndyMac problems are due to what the Senator said, or was IndyMac in trouble due to its relax loan qualifications and high rate of returns on deposits which showed the risky investments that the bank was involved with?

If the bank was doomed because of its policies, why shouldn't a senator speak of it?

The fact that the public panics: is it due to Senator Schumer's words or the psychological state of the people during two wars, dealing with unemployment, high prices and on the brink of recession?

what's the real reason Indymac went down? The wrong policies that went on for years creating the economical bubble, an institution taking advantage of the times with greed or the words spoken by a senator?

I am so confused...

IRANdokht

too true.

And I'm not really worried.  They are definitely insured amounts.  It's just the principal of the thing.  It's outrageous that this can happen.  But of course people panic... I can't blame them either.  On a different yet related subject, I just read in the news about the mayor of our home town... SOB is being investigated for insider trading violations... and it's getting worse and worse as the story unfolds.  And they haven't given him the boot yet!  Goes to show you... it's NOT always in the big cities... even a little dinky town in SC has it's share of crooks...lol.  The "good ole boys".

AW

Ironically, if your account falls within the FDIC coverage threshold, your funds are actually very secure.

I'm sorry to hear you are caught up in this. I don't have any accounts with IndyMac but as a mortgage broker I'm following the situation very closely, and I'm seething with anger at that idiot Chuck Schumer. The same hype that drove up property values is being used to beat the public over the head with doom and gloom.

very interesting

The Saturday, 7/12 issue of the LA Times went into more detail about the whole debacle in an article by Kathy M. Kristof.  We've got a couple CD's and in the last couple of weeks I've been online every day watching the rates.  Ironically, in the last couple of months, IndyMac had one of the highest rates... but we got wiff of some trouble and starting reviewing the situation.  Haven't gotten our money yet but should be insured... :-)

I've said it before but Kaveh said it best... all it takes is a word.