The Lotus

When you look at it honestly

When you look at the leaders of both Iran and Israel there is in fact very little difference, if any, between them.

Both will never hesitate to send their youth to slaughter house, on in the name of religion - Islam -and the other one in the name of religion - Judaism - disguised under the name of security. 

Both rule via terror, one terrorizes his own people and the other one terrorize Palestinians and entire ME.

-YT 

KS: The irony is they claim

KS: The irony is they claim they are anti-war but their words are fighting words. Their lust for revenge and war is on display everyday on this site. And if that's what they want, believe me the military industrial complex will be more than happy to oblige.

Demonizing Iran

"two years before the election of Ahmadinejad to the presidency, Iran made an offer to the US to recognize Israel, help broker a two-state peace solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and end Iran’s support of armed groups in the Middle East region, all in return for the US accepting Iran as what the 70-million population nation unarguably is: a legitimate power in the region. That offer was slapped down by the Bush/Cheney administration, which had as its goal not peace in Palestine or with Iran, but the occupation and control of Iraq, and perhaps ultimately a war against Iran. In fact, since the Iraq invasion, the US is known to have been financing and helping to organize a terror campaign inside Iran that has led to many deaths by bombings. If any country is acting towards the other in an aggressive and warlike fashion, it is the US, towards Iran, and not the reverse.

It needs to be said, but somehow never is in the establishment US media, whether corporate or not-for-profit, that Iran historically is not an aggressive, expansive nation (can that be said with a straight face about our own country?). Though it is, by dint of its oil reserves and its population, one of the biggest and most powerful countries in the Middle East, Iran has not invaded another country since the 18th century, and there is no indication that it plans to invade any other country now."

Dave Lindroff, Philadelphia based American Journalist

Vildemose

That is an example of A dreamer on steroid:) It has gone outta control and uses anything and everything to Justify an statement. 

Their heart is in a good place, they do see things the way they are , but have tremendous difficulty analyzing why things are they way they are. That is where the "emotional brain" takes over and messes things up and creates a kajo kole reasoning.

The Iranian right wingers

The Iranian right wingers mirror their American counterparts. The wingnuts in the US argue that since Bush presidency, we haven't had any other terrorist attack on US soil. The right wingers of all naitonalities seem to be short sighted, myopic, unprincipled, and unwise.

Using the Iranian rightwinger's logic, the Israeli apartheid/criminal policies can also be justified.

including colonization of the East Jerusalem as we speak. The first Palestinian was just deported under the new policy.

IRI and the US chickens haven't come to roost yet, as the proverb says. But one thing is certain: You reap what you sow in the end...

P.S. The Iranian winguts prescription is for permanent dictatorship and theocracy in Iran because of its "strategic location and oil"...

From Juancole:

//www.juancole.com/2010/04/netanyahu-commits-to-colonizing-east-jerusalem-first-palestinian-expelled-under-new-policy.html#comments

the ugly Mollas! (to Jamshid)

Yes Jamshid, those who are running Iran are not saints, line up all your favorite adjectives for them, and if JJ didn't get upset (with me using profanity) I would add a few Esfahani juicy words to your list. But, you know what, if they were nice, Americans/Israelis would have turned Iran into another Iraq. Argentine is not where Iran is located and Argentine does not have what Iran and Iraq have ....., these guys would go to any extent to dominate that region (ME) and Iran.

Now, let's look at something concrete and contemporary. Since 2003 those who run IRI (Bad ugly Mollas and others) have not allowed Americans/Israelis turn Iran into another Iraq through many gimmicks including organizing their base (some 10-20% of Iranian population), all the while you have not been able to even organize your 100 men (you and 99 men) to remove IRI.

BTW, learn more about Argentine/Argentina before you use it as an example, ..., it is a country that not long ago went TOTALLY bankrupt, it has not fully recovered yet, and many of their problems are not any different from those of Iranian people, corruption, lawlessness (kidnapping), bad inflation, etc.

جمشید

try reading this part again, with more open eyes, i suggest:

iran could have been more strategic and effective, and could have
taken a more conciliatory path. all that may have been possible if one
allows for the remote possibility that her foes would have reacted
differently. but khatami perhaps proved the opposite.
in any case, while the iranian approach might have been better, it has
not been irrational.

...

دست مریزاد جمشید خان

خوشحال شدم که هنوز ایرانی وطن پرست,نه اخوندپرست پیدا میشه موفق باشید

پاینده باد ایران زمین     
    

منوچهر جان

"حالا، راست و حسینی، بدون ملایان، غرب دست از سلطه گری بر جهان تحت سلطه، از جمله ایران، برخواهد داشت؟" 

خیر! با ملاّ یا بی‌ ملاّ سلطه جویی‌ در غریزهٔ انسان و در ذات تمامی کشورها منجمله ایران هست.

اینکه واضحه و جایی‌ برای بحث کردن نداره.

ولی‌ نکتهٔ مهم این هست که یک ملتی به چه نحوی از منافع خودش دفاع بکنه و دست این گونه سلطه جویان رو کوتاه کنه. دورو بر رو نگاه کنیم. یک طرف کشوری مثل فرضا کوبا میبینیم و آن طرفتر کشوری مثل کرهٔ جنوبی.

امریکای به قول شما جهانخوار هیسپانیک و یا چشم بادامی سرش نمی‌شه، می‌خواد بر همه سلطه داشته باشه، این شامل حال هم کره‌ و هم کوبا میشه.

حالا من از شما می‌پرسم کدام کشور منافع مملکت و مردم خودش رو بیشتر تأمین کرده؟ کوبا که در طی‌ چندین دهه گذشته با آمریکا‌ در حال "مبارزه" بوده و یا کرهٔ جنوبی که با آمریکا‌ به نوعی "بیعت" کرده؟ مردم کدام کشور امروز خوشبختتر هستن؟

و یا برای مثال اگر کرهٔ شمالی‌ در طی‌ این چند دهه در دست دولتمردان ضد امریکایی نبود، آیا مردمش امروز خوشبختر نبودن؟

میخوام بگم که بوق ضد آمریکا‌ زدن لزوماً به معنای این نیست که پس ما حالا داریم اتوماتیک منافع خودمون رو حفظ می‌کنیم. بلعکس، میتونه حتی اثر معکوس هم داشته باشه. راههای دیگری هم در چنته هست که یک ملتی از طریقشون بتونه جلوی غول آمریکا‌ ایستادگی کنه.

چرا ما از کرهٔ شمالی‌ و کوبا کپی‌ بکنیم؟ چرا از ژاپن، کرهٔ جنوبی، آرژانتین برزیل و سایر ممالک موفق دیگر دنیا کپی‌ نکنیم؟ مگر ما چیمون کمتره؟ آخه جانم چرا مردم ایران رو انقدر دست کم می‌گیری؟

کی‌ گفته که فقط ملاّ و یا فقط حکومتی که بر علیه آمریکا‌ رجز خوانی می‌کنه میتونه منافع ایران رو تأمین کنه؟ من به شما قول میدم که یک حکومتی که نه تنها با آمریکا‌ بلکه با همهٔ کشورهای جهان از در دوستی‌ بیاد، به مراتب بیشتر میتونه به مردمش سود برسونه و منافعشون رو حفظ کنه.

منوچهر عزیز، ملت ایران احتیاج به قیم نداره، احتیاج به اینکه به مافیای ملایان protection fee بده نداره. مردم ایران که یک مردم بدبخت و تو سری خور نیستن که احتیاج به قیمی ‌‌مثل ملایان داشته باشن.

متاسفانه، حکومت آخوندی در طی‌ این سی‌ سال گذشته، ذهنیت و روح ایرانی‌ آزاده و سر بلند رو چنان خار و حقیر کرده، که دیگه هیچ گونه اعتماد و اتکای به نفسی‌ بین مردم نمونده. نتیجتا، بعضیها هنوز فکر می‌کنن که مردم ایران هیچ هستن و یک حکومت مردمی و دمکراتیک به هیچ نحو نمی‌تونه منافعشون رو تأمین کنه، ولی‌ یک مشت ملای پست و فاسد می‌تونن، مادامی که طبل مرگ بر آمریکا‌ رو بزنن.

منوچهر عزیز

سپاس برادر

بدون ملایان، غرب دست از سلطه گری بر جهان تحت سلطه، از جمله ایران، برخواهد داشت؟  نه آغاز سلطه غرب بر جهان ارتباط علّی خاصی به ملایان دارد و نه تداومش  

بقای رفاهشان وابسطه به تداوم سلطه است  

جمشید عزیز؛

بدون اینکه مراد فضولی داشته باشم، خواستم بگویم که خانم پارسی بر خلاف فرمودۀ شما نگفته است: "خرد نزد ایرانیان است و بس".  مراد ایشان در ترازو گذاشتن مواضع است نه تقدیس یا تبرعه طرف ایرانی کشمکش.  حالا، راست و حسینی، بدون ملایان، غرب دست از سلطه گری بر جهان تحت سلطه، از جمله ایران، برخواهد داشت؟  با باور من، هرگز چنین چیزی پیش نخواهد آمد.  نه آغاز سلطه غرب بر جهان ارتباط علّی خاصی به ملایان دارد و نه تداومش.  جهانخواری مرحله ای از بلاهت در تاریخ تمدنهاست که همه امپراتوریها تاریخ را به خود سرگرم کرده است.  غرب برای تداوم سلطه جهانی اش هزینه هایش را در میان اعضای گروه سلطه بخش کرده است چون کماکان بقای رفاهشان وابسطه به تداوم سلطه است.

با درود

That rational West dumped the puppet shah

That's "rational" too, right? Who are we blaming for revolution this month? Iranians or stupidity of shah? Never blame America though..... if a puppet can't manage his affairs, and shah definitely couldn't juggle two oranges, it's his fault. Good puppets = arabs. By good, I mean longer-term. Shah had a nice run too. I wonder if Farah's maids clean the empress of Chanel's toilet with Ajax. LOL. "Jasoos" brand toilet cleaner. too political.

during the Vietnam war the bigots used to scream back at anti

war demonstrators: "Love it or Leave it".
We have our Iranian version of the same crowd here.

The reality of Western ignorance

I suspect many "ordinary Americans" have never seen Iran or an Iranian and see only what is presented in mainstream media.  We fear what we don't know or understand.  Not that George Bush did, either, but the mullahs don't exactly present as models of rationality: //news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8631775.stm.  I suspect the difference is that the "ordinary Iranian" is more likely to be more educated about the West and to be more aware that a country is more than its leaders or its foreign policy than the "ordinary Westerner" is.

AO jaan

Notice how my argument presented, get distorted. I did not ask the blogger to go back but merely questioned her own "rationality" of choosing an irrational based environment over a "rational" system since the title of the blog carries a very generalized, loaded message of "western irrationality".

So either change the title of the blog to match the now revised msg of the blog as "the myth of western foreign policy rationality" which is going to be hard since the blog mentions social ills of the west such as racism, slavery and/or stick to the original title & content and deal with my argument in a "rational" way if you have one. Why would one prefer to live under a bigotted, racist, slave happy , irrational environment under her own will?. Insane person? irrational person?.

btw, Jamshid, thanks pal you beat me to it as i was writing this comment to AO about the logic behind mystatement. You made it plain clear about the hypocracy issue.

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Samsam

"So, why would a person run away from a "rational" environment & take refuge and reside in an "irrational" environemnt as she claimes it to be?. Could we call such person "rational"?"

Well said my friend. I'd like to answer your question though. Why would a person run away from this rational environment?

Because they are deeply inflicted by the attitude of "nokar sefati", specially "nokarie gharb".

Let me explain why I say this. As we all know, Iran is in a terrible shortage of educated or trained individuals to serve the country. Almost in every sector of the society, people with education or training can help.

Despite this serious need, these IRI supporters leave the country for the better life that the West offers. They work either in technical jobs or in universities or in other places and serve the West in doing so. This is nokari.

Now, why the same argument does not apply to those who oppose the regime? Because at the very least, they don't believe in bullshits such as the IRI is rational or democratic or taking care of its citizens, etc. In fact, the regime itself drives them away. So they pack up and leave without any trace of hypocrisy.

But can we say the same thing about regime enablers? NO! They are here and in one way or another "serve" (read: doing nokari) for the West, and then complain about the West at the same time.

Sure Western countries are some of the most asshole countries in the world and have made life miserable for us Iranians in the past few centuries. But hey, all I am asking is don't be a freaking hypocrite.

So, in closing I'd like to ask Ms. Niloufar Parsi, what do you do here in the West? Spend Iran's money and have a good time? Or do you actually work for a living? If you work for a living, then you must have some sort of a training or expertise. Do you realize how badly Iran needs you? Why aren't you in Iran, the same Iran that is run by rational people? Why did you pack and leave Iran instead or staying and helping it? Why are you here and in one way or another serving (read: doing nokari for) a Western country?

Nilofar - America is a disaster

Golman Sachs gets positions in Treasury, Federal Reserve, and Finance.

Monsanto owns Agriculture, Trade, and Dept of Defense. 

Defense firms (Raytheon, Lockheed, Dyn Corp, Northrop) own the Pentagon.  By own, I mean that they are appointed to sign regulation and policy and influence law and approve things.

Example:

The people in America actually think that illegal immigrants are here because they enjoy scrubbing toilets and mowing lawns. They vote for people (right and left) who support corporations who drive in illegals across the border. Oh you should see the fights over it.

Meanwhile, our policians secure our April 15 (tax day!!!!!) monies (millions upon millions) to build walls/fences that only keep out certain deer and foxes. America is a joke. I live here and I have freedom of speech. I don't really have a choice. I'm settled here, and every where else is a mess too.

Don't worry though. America will "fix" Iran, Israel, Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, Ethiopia, Somalia, and other places.... 

Excellent analysis

Not just the Hurricane Katrina, although that's an excellent example. Look at the education systems in the south, specifically Arkansas, parts of rural Florida, Alabama, and most certainly among the worse Mississippi. It's rather unfortunate that in the land of the free discrimination is still inevitable. In Mississippi they still have liquor stores and mini marts, where white adults can deny a Black or Latino man, the right to purchase from his mart, can you believe that this exists in this 21st century?? I wouldn't have believed it either.

In Florida and similar states around it, in some areas, they create exams for African American students, these H.S. state exams. I believe every state for the most part has them. As for these students in majority African towns, they hire teachers that are poorly equipped, that often teach the wrong information, or teach information that is so weak in quality, that these students, an overwhelming majority of them cannot pass the exam, and some have been held back 2-3 grade levels in the same H.S.

What kind of justice is this?? Before attacking Iran, they need to clean up their own backyard. The same applies with Europe, where a country like Denmark is turning into a fascist state, denying foreign children to speak their language on school grounsd, not just class rooms, but even during break time, or using the restrooms.

I agree absolutely about the military spending, both spend a lot, however Iran is military defensive, while Israel/U.S. are militarily offensive. Since when was the last time Iran militarily invaded another nation, 300 years ago?? I think that speaks for itself.

Excellent analysis, hope to hear similar articles or other ones with absolute rational.

منوچهر خان

صفا آوردید. با تشکر.

Ms Parsi, Western powers are very rational when it come to

colonize, exploit, enslave and pillage the weaker nations while Iran is rational in protecting herself from them. Good rational blog, thanks.

Vildemose, AO, Joe, 'IRI'

Because I have made reference to this thread and the above-mentioned people on a concurrent thread, I felt I should draw your attention to it:

//iranian.com/main/2010/apr/will-israel-bomb-iran

NP, you're already aware of it.

farah

that's a good question! i hope it does not irritate the eyes...

a few reasons come to mind: neat, faster to type, makes every word 'equal' in rank, own style? :)

progress

would be happy to discuss that on another occasion. not here. this is about western claims on iranian 'irrationality'. it's their single biggest 'justification' for leaning on iran so heavily. they say iran is 'dangerous'. why? is it because they are afraid of being attacked? or is it because they are afraid of not being able to attack so easily anymore? most probably it is neither. they just want to squeeze iran and keep her down. so they make everyone agree with their policy by convincing them that iran is irrational. and the mullahs give them too much ammunition for it too, unfortunately.

the west has always done that. they used to take the piss out of the shah too when he was not around. all pomp and ceremony - a la a typical darius video - when he was on a state visit. but the press about him was not all that positive, especially after the 'assoudeh bekhab' fiasco. he got real bad reputation for it inside and outside iran. the way he spoke about iran and himself being one during interviews with foreign media, they used to call him things like delusional and disconnected. and when the shah was exiled with terminal cancer, a broken and ill man, we found out that they were not real allies. they would not let him stay to die with dignity.

why all in lower case?

rationale? :)

FR

Thanks Niloufar

I also commend you for staying respectful and cool despite all the fun that I have with you and the old USSR.  Here, read this.  It's off topic, but I'm sure you'll like it:

//www.alternet.org/world/146498/an_open_letter_to_the_iraqi_people,_from_soldiers_in_the_unit_depicted_in_the_wikileaks_video

PS/ I love that all Red Army song.  I even posted it on my Facebook page. :-))) 

نیلوفر عزیز؛

سنجیده بود و ژرف.

سپاس

AO

hating the foreign policy of a country is not the same as hating the country. i don't hate the us or israel. i have an american sister-in-law. a zionist, no less. visited them last december. the west has much to be proud of. it's just not its foreign policy. the us and israel are nasty to other (non-chosen) people. you cannot forget that as an iranian, no matter where you live. i respect your opinion though. i am trying to engage. that is all. i find you balanced and interesting to read. we differ on some issues though. i am trying to delve into some underlying assumptions in the western attitude toward iran. it makes dialogue very difficult when one side treats the other as 'irrational'.

Peace

Ms. Parsi

I may not agree with all the points you are making, particularly absence of any analysis of  internal policies and extreme violations of human rights in Iran.

But overall you have set forth a well defined, clearly explained and supported  analysis of international politics particularly in respect to imperialistic  agenda of US and Israel in the region.

West and in particular US, have been miscalculation after miscalculation about the mentality and resilience of Iranians for decades, starting with their support of Pahlavi Dynasty to present day.

Enjoyed reading your essay.

-YT 

Wrong assumptions, AO!

I certainly don't hate where I live and neither does Niloufar, to my knowledge and understanding.  These issues are bread and butter of Western sociology and are not about attacking the West or idealising the East.  It is about understanding the world we live in, it is critical sociology, critical thinking.  

As for my status here,  I am a citizen here, am accepted as a citizen here legally and by other citizens here whether they are 'native' of this country or not!  No-one asks me to leave because of my opinions or doubts my right to citizenship, or doubts my love for those I am attached to here, or my love for the country I have adopted to live in for as long as I desire!  I do not view things as black and white, good and bad, evil or idealised.  I live where I like and criticise it as much as I like.  It is interesting that those who are asking us to leave are the non-'natives' such as yourself (interesting you feel you have no right here unless you are totally subservient!) or the right wing racists!!  

We are here to stay or leave as we wish and criticise it as we see fit ;)  I suggest that you get out of this non-tolerant undemocratic way of relating, so reminiscent of Iran, Kiani or Islami ;)

بابا این اراجیف چیه؟

جمهوری اسلامی مردم ایران رو می‌کشه و میزنه و تجاوز میکنه او اینها میان بلاگ مینویسند که چقدر آخوندها "منطقی‌" هستند و چقدر "غرب" بهشون ظلم میکنه!!!  شماها چی‌ فکر میکنید؟  فکر میکنید که ما مغز آخوند خوردیم که این چرندیات را میخواهید به خوردمون بدید؟!!