Long live legacy of True Aryenum Eran Iran

Why are we so paranoid about going back 1500 years?

To me, language is to express oneself. The old Farsi has lots of shortcomings. Arabic actually brought lots of opportunity to enrich Farsi.

So is the English language. It has been open to accepting injections from other languages. This is okay to me.

To hamvatans: Hafiz is part of Iranian Heritage;

Let aside the war of 72 nations (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), Hafiz is part of Iranian Identity, as is Rumi, As is Ferdoosi, As is Roodaki, As is Khayyam, and on and on......

I have seen many attempts to assassinate characters of Iranian identity lately. Not sure if this serves any purpose, except self flaggalation!

Hope we can leave our heritage out of jang e haftado do mellat!

Smearing the names of these great gems of Iran with contemporary political affairs is a poor attempt. I see no gain for any Irani in this.

I have hard time understanding how they even value 'Alber Camoo(typo?) in the West, but we easily can trash a great mind like Hafiz! Of course, I'm not surpised though. I remember how some Persian speeking people would go on-air on LA TV's and trash the shows and showmen with their foul language.

.......and I'm asking myself...is this type of articles any different?

Farah Rusta

I think we stand in disagreement!

I don't believe removal of foreign words should be forced, as this never works! But I do believe that through education, we could get more people to change their habits and use beautiful Farsi words instead of Arabic (or English).

This issue is not about racism. The French have a strong allergy to foreign words (specially newer English words), this doesn't mean that they are anglo-racist. We have to be careful when we use the word "racist", as it is a loaded word.

Going back to Samsam's views on language, I believe him and many like him are part of the very evolution you wrote about. So is your opposition to his views. Together with other views, they produce the evolution of our language.

Although we don't know the outcome, but everyone should be entitled to apply his/her own leverage to this evolution. Samsam is merely applying his share of the leverage. This has nothing to do with racism.

Jamshid, pal

I believe you presented an articulated and sound argument to the table about civic & patriotic based duty of Iranians to be encouraged to use the simple and well versed Medeo-Persian vocab in place of their Arab acronym but once again you were given a wiki lecture on linguistic science  detached from the point of your argument.

Racism? then I assume American government helping home based auto manufaturers with tax subsidies is practicing racism.

Natural selection;

No, It was thru a forced selection post-invasion.

& you know what ,lets agree with them and go with their wish as to keep the current Arabo Farsi language untouched. Then a topic comes to mind on the question I asked them with my piece in Farsi esrlier that was left conveniently unanswered ; why do they still insist on calling it Persian to foreigners when it is by all measurments at %85 form and vocab a minor subset of Arabic?. It,s like calling Urdu ,English. are they ashamed? or simply Arabic speakers in denial . Painting an orange as apple wont make it an apple even thru conjob. & btw Persianized Arabic words is the another gem & 5th grade logic used by ommaties to get away from facing the facts on Farsi .

late Professor M.T. Bahar;

 "...written Persian has become a weird language which is neither Persian, neither Arabic, nor Turkish...."

 Cheers pal & thanks once again

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan http://iranianidentity.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Madam

Should take off my...

Mr Jamshid and Mr Benross

Beginning with Ben

Thank you for your reply. If my reading of your reply is correct, you have concurred with me on the evolutionary nature of the languages. Your allusion to the "natural selection" is indeed what I termed as the "survival of the fittest" (as a result of the natural selection). Persian survived the onslaught of the Arabic because it was strong and fit enough to sustain the intrusion, convert and Persianize the intruders, and use them as more effective tools for communication.

Jamshid

"in favor of Farsi words that could catch on" these were your words with which I have no dispute. A language, as I wrote before, is not a lifeless mechanical structure that can be repaired or replaced by spare parts or new components when needed. It is a living entity whose body adapts itself to its surroundings for one purpuse only: ease of  communication. If this criterion is not satisfied then a language ceases to be functional and serving its purpose.You may forcibly make the people change their language in writing, vocabulary, pronunciation, grammar etc as the Turks did it during Ataturk's era, and the Soviets did in their times. This is no longer a natural expansion (through "natural selection" as Benross suggested). The administrative examples you have cited as precedence are similar to technical terms which enter a language and gradually catch on. But the non-administrative words that you have cited like pajhoohesh vs, mohaghegh or vaajheh vs loghat  are still used in parallel depending on the taste of the user and the context of usage. At the same time a substantial number of Arabic and foreign words that entered Persian have lost their original meaning and become Persianized. Purification has an ethno-racial sound because it means that there must have been an initial contamination or pollution. We are dealing with assimilation and even better, integration.

FR

Farah Rusta

Farah, you wrote,

"in my view (and in the view of a significant body of Persian scholars) the question of language purification is meaningless."

I must strongly disagree with you on this. The proof for my disagreement is based on a precedence that proves not only language purification is meaningful but also feasible (contrary to your and Ebi's view.)

But first, we must have a common terminology. With "purification", I do not mean a complete 100 percent removal of all foreign words. This could simply be unfeasibile.

Rather, I mean removal of foreign words (specially English and Arabic) in favor of Farsi words that could catch on. This indeed is meaningful and feasible as well as with precedence as its proof.

The precedence and the proof goes back to the beginning of Reza Shah's reign, when there was a significant effort in using more pure Farsi words. As I said earlier, older administrative words such as baladieh, harbieh, marizkhaaneh were replace with shardaari, artesh, bimaarestaan and so on. Also, when Farsi lacked a word in its vocabulary, Farsi was used to coin new words.

This caught on and worked so well that these efforts were later expanded in replacing common non-administrative words, such as vajhe for loghat, soraayandeh for sha'er, pajhooheshgar for mohaghegh, and so on.

This in turn caught on so successfully that today even under the IRI, the trend is still continuing both by common Iranians and by some government officials as well, although in a much less organized manner.

This proves that it is both feasible and meaningful to purify the language. The disagreement however could be in the degree and level of purification.

Khar, rarely

Rarely I could imagine to like something that shamlou writes mainly due to couple of things he said about Ferdowsi in passing form but listening to this tape reminds me of our shared pain..especialy the part about ;"gullibles who invited the mongols as saviours" , very profound . &Yes I wonder ,ironic choice by you or intentional which in any case so true and related to  what I wrote in this same blog ;

  transformed a Medeo-Persian nation of free men & women with traits of self-sufficience , self-confidence , self-worth , self-knowledge ,patriotism, adventurism , pragmatism , challenge , ethics & mastery into a failed dual-identity nation falling in gradual abyss of self pity , "Safsateh", "Taghieh", Double-Tongued, leaving her destiny to fate , obediance to Pan-Arab psyche , seeking messiah among the occupiers , promoting alien icons , writing in their language & alphabet , naming their kids after occupiers , being content with staus quo , indifference in face of tyrrany , blaming the victim , praising the subjugator , choosing the easy way out , mistaking friends & foes , welcoming enemies as liberators , leaving foreigners to decide for us & blaming our ills on the first easy target to get away facing our true self in the mirror & be accountable .

 Bravo Mr Shamlou, yaadash zendeh va ravanash shaad baad & Bravo Khar. I gotte be less lazy and watch more of your vids. I could learn something ;)

Cheers & thx again

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan http://iranianidentity.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Dear Ben,

 Like you I,m no linguist but Ironic that you brought the case for English. English happens to come from the same IE tree as Old Persian and just like Modern Farsi today has gone thru it,s own diversified changes  via the effect of such sister languages such as Germanic,Roman,Dutch & Normans which not only enriched it but at the same time kept her over all Indoeuropean structure intact and healthy to be able to absorb or remake thousands of words into her vocab system with such ease. The reason behind it was very simple since all those other IE forms obeyed the same rules as English grammer and structure does . But Persian unlike it,s English sister went thru a complete different path of having her well structured foundation go thru the shock of introduction of mind numbing number of Semitic Arabic words which brought with itself it,s own derivatives,form & structure that did not obey the IE rules of Persian language and fatally stopped the natural progression of Persian system to the level that Persian became a mere subset of Arabic language up to this day. I give you an example I read from a dear friend emailed article recently;

More especially, after the Mongol invasion, during the Safavid era (1501-1722), Persian encountered a dramatic decline. The Persian prose became awkward and filled with an enormous number of unfamiliar Arabic words artificially introduced by clerks and writers of low literary talent, as if there was a competition among them with the goal of beating the contenders by introducing heavy Arabic terms and combinations. Strangely enough, not only did they replace Persian words with Arabic ones, they even proceeded to change familiar Arabic words with much odder ones! According to the eminent Iranian scholar and poet, late Professor M.T. Bahar, "written Persian became a weird language which was neither Persian, neither Arabic, nor Turkish".

Persian had its own words for "thought" (andišé and others), the Arabic fekr brought with itself afkâr "thoughts" (Arabic plural form), tafakor, eftekâr, fekrat "to think", motafaker, mofakker, fâker, fekkayr, fakur (the latter is not used in Arabic!) "thinker", mofakkar "thought over", etc. This situation was very handicapping to Persian since it prevented Persian from developing its own word formation mechanisms.

  In order to take up this linguistic challenge, the whole capability of Persian should be used: not only its modern literary heritage, but also the resources of Middle Persian (Pahlavi, A.D. c. -300 to +700), Old Persian (A.D. c. -600 to -300), and Avestan (A.D. c. -2000 to -300). Further linguistic tools are needed to meet the goal. The mine of various Persian dialects will be of great help. They have preserved very old Indo-European forms which are missing in Modern literary Persian, and sometimes even possess terms which are reminiscent of Proto-Indo-European roots whose Avestan and Old Persian counterparts are extinct . At Extreme we can however utilize other IndoEropean languages such as Sanskrit , Latin, English or French to provide us with roots of acronym words to be built into Persian .

So as you see my dear Ben, the root causeof our misery goes back to our own ignorance about our own national language after all.

Cheers pal!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan http://iranianidentity.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

جخ امروز از مادر نزاده ام

SHAMLOO:

Thanks Farah and Samsam

I'm no expert in the field -or any field for that matter!- but here is my two cents:

The number of words in English vocabulary crossed one million threshold few months ago. Where all those words are coming from? from all around the world.

Any language that limits itself in expanding is an endangered specie. Persian is one of them, and not quite because of different 'philosophies' about how it is supposed to expand. But more so, because it is a language with structural deficiency which doesn't allow absorption of new words and new meanings that easily. English language has this amazing capability to absorb any new word and suddenly make it one of its own. Persian situation is on the opposite side. It doesn't matter whether you try to create a new 'Persian' word or import a foreign one, it's the structure of the language that doesn't make it easy to absorb and make it one of its own. So we should cherish any new word and new meaning, Persian made or imported, that managed to make it through the obstacles and make themselves one of the family.

The issue of Iranian identity is more a cultural approach than a linguistic one. It is with this inner desire to relate oneself with one's national history and identity, that the 'natural selection' in new words to absorb into the language, would take a different direction, as it already can be noticed in our contemporary literature. 

more, Ben,

Now we are getting a "scientific lecture on the function of language" from the expert . ommatized Faattii doesn,t get it that the more she  talks the more she proves the main point of my argument that for an omar-whipped ajam bardeh, national language/national identity/names ..etc are mere expandaple entities . Some one need to remind this closet pan-ommah gholam that language of a nation is the 1st line of recognition & identity   and without identity & shared heritage the whole concept of nationhood falls into irrelevance . Iran today without her true heritage/language/icons/avestan alphabet & psyche is no longer relevent to the points & concepts of her creation and foundation by her Kiaani founders. This is the point that this stateless ommatie and culturaly illiterate dont get .

Cheers pal!!!

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan http://iranianidentity.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Dear Benross

I am not sure if you have read my reply to Jamshid a little earlier on this blog, but if you care to have a read, you'd find that in my view (and in the view of a significant body of Persian scholars) the question of language purification is meaningless. Samsam's blog makes me disappointed but not uncomfortable. It only shows that he has absolutely no notion of what the prime function of a lnaguage is: communication. The fact that you and I are now corresponding in English, instead of Persian, is precisely for the same reason: ease of communication in a dominantly English speaking community. The oddest thing of all is that on a site called, Iranian.com, the majority of writings appear in English! But as odd as it may sound, it is a fact that the majority of the contributors on this site have lived for many years within the English speaking communities of North America or England and have been out of touch with a daily usage of their mother tongue. Depending on their degrees of separation form their mother tongue, they have developed their own personal ethnic and linguistic theories. All these mumbo jumbo about Hafez and Ferdowsi is out of a need for recognition. You see this clearly in the writings of Samsam. He wants to be recognized as someone different from the rest of the crowd. On a different level we have Ali Mostofi but more of that later. And "different" in Samsam's vocab is synonymous with discrimination. I think you can guess the rest. 

FR

صغرا خانم اختیار دارید

مجبوریم برای شما یجوری بنویسیم كه قابل فهم باشه. تازه،
اگر اسمتون پارسی میبود، از درصد کلمات عربی این دو بیت میکاست.

صمصام جان, دست مریزاد, سپاس.

مردم جان

دست درد نکنه نازنين..اينم پيشکشت تا ببينيم از شهر به اين دوستايه عين الله چه پيشنهاد هايی شده..

 سام سام ,نپرستد , يه مشت خاک ز بن شور
گر جوهر ان خاک ز فرهنگ اييران بشود دور
اکنون بپزم بهر  خانم روضه خون, چامه ز ويران
انچه فاطی خانم به نيرنگ کند نامه ايران
ايران نه ز خاکست و نه باد است و درختان و چمنزار
نامش نه ز ابگوشت بيايد , نه خورش نار
فرٌش نه بيايد ز مغول يا ز يه سوسمار
ان ريشه نباشد ز بر اجعل و جاءل و جعلنار
ان نام نيايد ز بر شيخ خراباتی و مولا
يا از پسر و تخم و تره ,جنگ جلولا
پس گوهر نامش تو بجويد بره ان يار
ان کورش انشان, که ارامگهش دشمن ايری بکند زار
ان نام بيايد ز فرهنگ دليران
ان توده وارسته و افسر به جهان ,مردم ايران
ان نام چو يا ديست ز ماد و پرس ,سگزي و اشکان
چون خوی به نيکي , ز پندار و اموزش زرتشت به نياکان
ان نام بيامد چو ز هنگام خجسته
از مردم اراسته پيراسته و فرهنگ گسسته
ان گوهر نامش بيايد به برت بهر زبانش
ان گويش پارسي , نه فاطی و لسانش
سام سام به کنون کرده تو هشيار به گفته
تا معنی ايران تو بداني, ز ويرانه آن , امٌت خفته

مظلوم! این قدر

مظلوم!
این قدر زور زدی آخرش نتونستی چار تا کلمه به هم ببافی بدون اینکه پنج تاش (!!) عربی‌ نباشه. این طور که تو و صمصام از فردوسی دفاع می‌‌کنین خدا بیامرز ممکنه حرفشو پس بگیره و بجاش بگه:

بسی‌ رنج بردم در این سال سی‌
تا نجوید عرب پیشی‌ از پارسی

حداقل اجر اون استاد رو ضایع نکنین.

re;

Ben; you are a wise code cracker ;) & we are a nation in denial and voluntary amnesia busying ourselves with short term remedies. btw your observation on Parsi argument is on the mark, funny ha .Cheers pal !!!

MM; hey you are becoming a well versed mini Iraj Mirza already..I,ll catch up , no worries  :). cheers good pal !!! 

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan http://iranianidentity.blogspot.com http://www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

به به

میبینم که تعریف یاوه که داده بودم مورد استفاده قرار گرفته.

حالا در همون راستا

‫یکی بود صغرا دهاتی در آن محل
‫به ژاژ گوئی و یاوه سرائی پر عمل;
فحش آغازید و دشنام از گزاف
‫گفت او دیوانگانه زی و قاف;

‫صمصام جان، شما حالا یکخورده دیگشو بگو تا باز چندتا بیت دیگم بیاد به ذهنم.

Farah Rusta

Samsam is an example. He needs a little smack from time to time.

I guess this is the whole point of his approach to what he believes... it works!

Do you really think SamSam is like those Hutu propagandists inciting their clan to go and massacre Tutsies? Chapping their legs off because they are too tall?

No dear Farah. SamSam makes me uncomfortable too but that's the whole point.

It is somehow odd though, that we discuss Persian purification -or not- in English! 

Kharmagas jaan

You have honored me. I know that at times I may go haywire  but the point is that we all work for the same cause: freedom of our ancestral land from the grips of an anti-human regime. Sometimes some of the members of this colorful team must be reminded that their behaviour is counter productive. Samsam is an example. He needs a little smack from time to time.

Thanks again for your kind words.

FR

فاطی خانم, شما و عس مگس و امت را چه به فردوسی

ميگن افتابه(اووپس افتاب) امد دليل افتاب (:.کبوتر با کبوتر باز با باز . تا حال ديدی يه حزب اللهی يا امتي زبونم لال به من کامپليمنت بده ..نه..چرا؟ .چون امتی دوقلوشو خوب ميشناسه و فرقی ميون فرهنگ امتی تو و خامنه ای نيست که هردوتون تاريخ وفرهنگ و زبان ايران باستان رو از رويه نادانی مسخره يا کوچيک نمايی ميکنيد و شکست قادسيه رو جشن ميگيريد . و اين جنگ امثال تو با ملا هم نه از برايه هوييت و شناسه و سربلندی ايران بلکه در باب خود خواهي و پس گرفتن نون باداورده ايست که اخوند از گروهی از سلطنت طلبان امتی مثه تو گرفت. فرق ادمايی مثه تو و ايران دوستان راستين اينه که تو درد خود و نون داری و اونا درد ايران وگرنه همين امروز اگه رژيم قادسی پستی بهت بده, ميشی فاطی کماندو و مليجک اونا چون همتون سرو  ته ميبخشيد  يه کرباسيد. يه بار بهت گفتم .نسل فسيلهايه صفی علی شاهی بسر اومده وبچه هايه نسل کنونی دنباله رو پيام کورش و شناسه تاريخی خودشونند. شما بهر حال يه مادری و نميخوام زياد روی کنم پس پند گير و برو دنبال روضه خونيت.

چييرز

Ms. Rusta

I truly appreciate all of your kind and generous words. I am humbled to say the least.

Love your poem BTW, didn't realize  how eloquent you were with our language. You should share your gift with us in your own blogs. I am certain many people will enjoy reading them.

Have a wonderful weekend 

-YT  <<<<< BLUSHING from all the complements!

well said Mrs. Rusta

Mrs. Rusta ..... you and I politically differ so much (from the past to present).... yet I respect you so much .... as I have said before in a totally different blog. 

Great poetry that applies very well.

#best regards

A humble dedication to Samsam (Fedowsi style)

یکی یل بدی صمصام نام 
تهی از خرد لیک جویای نام
همی‌ ژاژ گوی و همی‌ ژاژ خای
ز یاوه نمودی پژمان سرای
بگفتش یکی پارسی نیکو نهاد
به یاد آور آ‌ن‌ شاهنشه پاکزاد
مگو این چنین یاوه با نام او
بگوش آر فرمان دادار او
به نیکی‌ ز کردار و پندار و گفتار خویش
بکن پیکر دشمنان ریش ریش
وگرنه بخندند بر تو همه مردمان 
به ریشت بمالند چیز کلان!!
 
 
 

Natalia

Thanks Natalia, yea I'll remember your advice.

These guys here seem nuts, they are out of balance. I don't understand what they are fighting about, but I can see there is a battle going on.

I am out of this blog. that Samsan has a funny helmet on his avatar pic.  His english is very funny too. He must be a practical joker working on late night shows in bars I guess.

 He is fun!

مردم جان کف بزن که بيشتر روضه خونی کنن ..هيی

مردم جان , ..خودت گفتی ديگه ..با اين امتيا سر شاخ شدن سودی نداره..فردوسی کف کرد..هدايت کَف کرد ..کسروی کف کرد..بختيار کف کرد..ولی من بجايه کف کردن براشون کف ميزنم که بيشتر روضه خونی کنن واسه سوژه و خنده . بيشين عشق کن که اين هنرمندا دسه عين الله و مادر صمدو از پشت بستن ..چييرز بادی

کبوتر با کبوتر باز با باز
فاطيه روضه خون, کاپيتان سيا باز
تو باور مکن روضهٌ فاطي ال امٌتين 
که راهش , بياورد شيخان به ايران زمين
بخندم بخندم بخندم همی
بره کاپيتان امٌتستان دمی

 کنون من بگويم گناهانشان
بگيرم من ايراد از راهشان
نگر کن تو از دور ان چهره ها
مجاهد ,اليتيست, فراري، فدايی و جمهور خواه
همه سر به سر, بيش و کم در روش امٌتند
به راه عجم بردگی در به گيتی تکند
به نيکی سيير کن به فرهنگشان
تو بينی همان امتی اخوندی رنگشان

_____________________________
پس بگويد بهر تو سام ,چامهٌ ان پير طوس
پند دادت يک هزار سالی گذشته چون ز دوست
کز ز اميزش ز تازی و ز ترکان و فروس
آيدت ايلی چو سان يک خر خروس
که نباشد او ز تازی يا ز ترکان يا فروس
او زند جفتک و قو قوولی کند همچون خروس

As the adage says

Kabootar ba kabootar, baz ba baz.... Konad ham jenss ba ham jenss parvaz. i.e. an ommatie with an IQ of 50 loves another ommatier with an IQ around 50 even if they have never met or talked with each other before.

Why IRI Loves Samsam and his ilk?

Dear Captain,

First of all I would like to express my sincere gratitude to you as you are a true symbol of nobility and gentlemanliness. For those of you who don't know, Captain and I have never met each other, don't know each other and even have different views on certain plitical issues. Despite all these, he has always been coutreous and gracious towards me. He has shown his noble Iranian upbringing to the best. He is the best example of a real son of Iran and I am grateful to him forever. Your kind words, reminded me of this verse from Ferdowsi:

بدو گفت رای تو ای شیر زن درفشان كند دوده و انجمن‏

Not that I deserve your gracious title but just thought to remind certain false supporters of Ferdowsi on this site that Ferdowsi's views of women (contrary to what they think) was highly respectful and dignified.

And talking about such false supporters and ultra pseudo-patriots one is reminded of our friend Samsam khan!! The Islamic regime is safe and sound for as long as Samsam and his friends keep barking at them. These delusional daydreamers pose no challenge or threat to the Islamic regime because they only see the regime through their own racistic, quasi-fascistic, and complety convoluted, upside down logic and fabricated/made up history. Even Mousavi and his comrades are thousand times more dangerous to the Islamic regime than Samsam and his ilk. Why the regime is so fearful of such groups as the MKO or any insider? Because they are the people who can divide them internally. Samsam and his daydreaming Aryans are only unifying the regime externally.  The sad thing about Samsam and friends is that in their mad drive to gain recognition as a different brand of IRI opposition, they only distance themselves from the realities of what the IRI is and what it stands for.

Samsam, the only comment  I make about your so-called Persian claptrap is that your Persian is even worse than your English.

With kind regards to Captain,

Farah

صمصام جان

خیلی حال بکردم از این چامه ات........ از این راست گویی و این درست گفتنت

سپاس

مردم جان ..

هيييهيي..ببين اين حاجي ما کمی سرديش شده هذيان بار شترش ميکنه ..ناسزا ميگه و گريه هم ميکنه که چرا نگفتی مرصی ...روو که نيست پالون حزبالله ست..کنون اينا رو بگير اگه ديدی دوباره روضه خوند يه زنگ بزن  تا براش آش فرررش  بپزم...چييرز..چامه ات ناز بود به به به بقول امتی ها بع بع بععععح  

من خورم يک قرمه سبزی    تا شکم را پر کنم
گر که پر کردم شکم را       کاپيتان پاسخ کنم

که صمصم نگيرد ، بر  امتی سرزنش

که خر باشد اوی ، چارپای بارکش

و

درآيد یکی سیل از ایران زمین
 نه اخوند گذارد نه کاپيتان مهين
که سام ريشهٌ امٌتستان به آتش برد
بروزی بيفتد کاپيتان که لچَک خرد

و
ای کاپيتان  عقرب امتي 

تو که با کامنتت ر یی د  یی

زرت و پورته دروغت

با چرت و پرت جوییدی  

روزی تو بگیر از حزبالله

برو کیسه کشیه نصرالله