Pages and pages of articles on the Baha'i Faith has been written in the context of the persecution of the Baha'is and yet it seems that the support that you may have had was founded on some notion other than the facts.
You may have felt sympathy and admiration for the steadfastness of those subjected to these persecution. But perhaps you should have stopped to investigate what it is that the Baha'is believe in before expression of support or admiration. Perhaps you would have found the "surprise" sooner and you would have not lent your support so carelessly!
Blind support is at the end blind and therefore uninformed. Now that you know what Baha'is believe in, can you justify the attacks? Could you see yourself amongst those that may even stand by and watch it occur and remain silent? If your answer YES to either, you may now even cast a stone when you have chance yourself. No matter ! Go for it ! You won't be alone in this new position either.
Having read a few lines in my response, cannot possibly have informed you enough to reach a conclusion, but it seems that it struck a nerve. Could this be the same nerve that allows and perpetuates the persecutions? Could you now see yourself support the systematic nature of these persecutions?
To answer these questions, perhaps you will dive in and investigate for yourself. Whatever position you take, it will be informed.
The consequences of being uninformed is already self evident in our homeland.
... your support in the past and perhaps indifference in the future in no wise alters the unfoldment of a New World Order. I as an individual am glad that I have played a role in you reaching a more informed position on the Baha'is and their beliefs.
Should I be able to elaborate further, let me know. It will no doubt either call into question what you perceive or confirm it. Either way, it is best to ask, rather than speculate.
by Zagros (not verified) on Sat Jun 14, 2008 07:27 PM PDT
A wise person once said the most effective way to discredit an idea was to defend it poorly. That however is not the case with Alborz here, as he/she just tried his/her best to defend a very poor idea. Still, gotta love the toon!
I agree with what you write. I'm sure you have already read Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamazov, and the wonderful dialogue between Christ and the Grand Inquisitor: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Inquisitor
by ex-supporter (not verified) on Sat Jun 14, 2008 02:44 PM PDT
WOW! alborz! What a revelation!
If untill this given time I have been speaking up for you people and defending you through and through - and I 'HAVE' let me add - from this time forward I shall most definitely refrain from doing so!!!
What........
by Banafsheh (not verified) on Sat Jun 14, 2008 01:07 PM PDT
Alborz Jan:
With all due respect, in fact my point was something else entirely. Mine was merely a point in the current clergy's mindset being completely intolerant of things they are preaching themselves. I mean that if Emam-e-Zaman showed up in Tehran, next to Mr. Khamanei, Mr. Khamenei would discredit him. Same thing with Jesus Christ showing up in Vatican next to the Pope, asking him to step down and give up his seat to him because "the genuine article" is here now.
I am not prepared to discuss Bahaii faith here. Whether I believe in what you say or respect it is a moot point here. In the scenario I am imagining, developed and fed by Mullah's for the past 30 years in Iran, based on much supersition and ill logic, Emam-e-Zaman, Mahdi or Mihdi as you call him, is supposed to show up with a big splash, where everyone will know that he is here, no doubts, no subtleties, no skepticism, no two ways about it! I think even if he shows up like that, Mr. Khamanei and his friends would never say: "Mahdi Jan, we kept your seat warm for you and Islam intact, you can have it back now!" No, siree, I think they would have him arrested and sent to Evin where the sun don't shine! That's what I meant.
Let's take discussions about Bab and Bahaii faith to another area of the site, and you know there are many, and discuss them there. For all it's worth, I don't wish for my comment to be the basis of an ideological discussion here.
The preceding commercial was brought to you by the Alborz Bahai Center and does not represent views and opinions of this site, its owners, most its readers or advertisers.
According to the Baha'is, the Bab was the Mihdi and he was indeed attacked by the clergy in Iran during the 19th century. He was ultimately executed in 1850 in Tabriz and 20,000 of His followers were put to death. They also believe that the Promised One of all ages has returned and the convulsions that we are witnessing today will lead to a tranformation that will establish the prophesized new world order.
So as you correctly anticipated the entrenched clerics of each faith are the chief obstacles in the recognition of His return. Their role and credibility has not only been tainted but utterly discredited. They have joined the ranks of other discredited institutions and have failed miserably in being the standard bearers of englightenment and virtues. Whether it is Mullah's of Shiism or the Cardinals of Catholicism, both are implicated in the most heinous acts of immorality and injustice.
Shiites await the return of the Qaim, Sunnis await the return of the Mihdi, Jews await the return of Elijah, Christians the return of John the Baptist, Zoroaster the return of Ushídar-Máh, Buddhists the return of the Fifth Buddha, and so on.
According to the Baha'is these promises have been fulfilled in the Person of Bab and thus endingthe Prophetic Cycle and annoucing the Cycle of Fulfillment.
by Live From Tehran (not verified) on Sat Jun 14, 2008 08:47 AM PDT
There is not a God, but a force of conscience, humanity,respect, law. The "God" that we believe in has been pushed upon us from 2500 years ago. it is created by con artists to manipulate weak people for their own personal profits. God and religion is nothing more than a myth. I believe in that which i can see.
by Banafsheh (not verified) on Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:04 PM PDT
Ha Ha! Great!
You know, Eye, I often think that if Emam-e Zaman were to emerge right now, the mullahs would detain and discredit him. I think if Jesus Christ were to show up now, the Vatican would not stand to watch his discrediting them, so they would do it to him first! I don't know whether Jewish faith has a guy who is supposed to re-surface, too, but if they do, I am willing to bet that they wouldn't like his scrutiny of things done in Israel.
Indeed even if God shows up directly, I doubt the Mullahs and the priests and the rabbis would let people take him seriously! Religions rule states and fuel hate these days, in my opinion, and there is no room for a savior in this scenario, even God himself.
About this cruelty Hafiz said
by ImtheKing on Sun Jun 15, 2008 06:59 AM PDTمردم چشمم به خون آغشتـه شد
در کـجا این ظلم بر انسان کنـند
Where else than in Blood suckers land?
3:57 and Zagros . . .
by alborz on Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:47 PM PDTPages and pages of articles on the Baha'i Faith has been written in the context of the persecution of the Baha'is and yet it seems that the support that you may have had was founded on some notion other than the facts.
You may have felt sympathy and admiration for the steadfastness of those subjected to these persecution. But perhaps you should have stopped to investigate what it is that the Baha'is believe in before expression of support or admiration. Perhaps you would have found the "surprise" sooner and you would have not lent your support so carelessly!
Blind support is at the end blind and therefore uninformed. Now that you know what Baha'is believe in, can you justify the attacks? Could you see yourself amongst those that may even stand by and watch it occur and remain silent? If your answer YES to either, you may now even cast a stone when you have chance yourself. No matter ! Go for it ! You won't be alone in this new position either.
Having read a few lines in my response, cannot possibly have informed you enough to reach a conclusion, but it seems that it struck a nerve. Could this be the same nerve that allows and perpetuates the persecutions? Could you now see yourself support the systematic nature of these persecutions?
To answer these questions, perhaps you will dive in and investigate for yourself. Whatever position you take, it will be informed.
The consequences of being uninformed is already self evident in our homeland.
Alborz
Ex-supporter...
by alborz on Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:04 PM PDT... your support in the past and perhaps indifference in the future in no wise alters the unfoldment of a New World Order. I as an individual am glad that I have played a role in you reaching a more informed position on the Baha'is and their beliefs.
Should I be able to elaborate further, let me know. It will no doubt either call into question what you perceive or confirm it. Either way, it is best to ask, rather than speculate.
Alborz
Persian models
by Hajminator on Sat Jun 14, 2008 07:54 PM PDTEyeranian,
Persian terminators look like me, so please if you don't refer to 'Farangui' models draw us as what I look like,
GhoftarNike-KerdarNike-PendarNike Baby
Not Alborz!
by Zagros (not verified) on Sat Jun 14, 2008 07:27 PM PDTA wise person once said the most effective way to discredit an idea was to defend it poorly. That however is not the case with Alborz here, as he/she just tried his/her best to defend a very poor idea. Still, gotta love the toon!
alborz, so this is what
by 3:57 (not verified) on Sat Jun 14, 2008 03:42 PM PDTalborz, so this is what bahaism is about!?
Um... uhhhh... well, sorry dude...this is "adios" for me!
The Grand Inquisitor
by Zion on Sat Jun 14, 2008 03:25 PM PDTDear Banafsheh,
I agree with what you write. I'm sure you have already read Dostoevsky's Brothers Karamazov, and the wonderful dialogue between Christ and the Grand Inquisitor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Grand_Inquisitor
Basically says the same thing.
WOW! alborz!
by ex-supporter (not verified) on Sat Jun 14, 2008 02:44 PM PDTWOW! alborz! What a revelation!
If untill this given time I have been speaking up for you people and defending you through and through - and I 'HAVE' let me add - from this time forward I shall most definitely refrain from doing so!!!
What........
Alborz Jan: With all due
by Banafsheh (not verified) on Sat Jun 14, 2008 01:07 PM PDTAlborz Jan:
With all due respect, in fact my point was something else entirely. Mine was merely a point in the current clergy's mindset being completely intolerant of things they are preaching themselves. I mean that if Emam-e-Zaman showed up in Tehran, next to Mr. Khamanei, Mr. Khamenei would discredit him. Same thing with Jesus Christ showing up in Vatican next to the Pope, asking him to step down and give up his seat to him because "the genuine article" is here now.
I am not prepared to discuss Bahaii faith here. Whether I believe in what you say or respect it is a moot point here. In the scenario I am imagining, developed and fed by Mullah's for the past 30 years in Iran, based on much supersition and ill logic, Emam-e-Zaman, Mahdi or Mihdi as you call him, is supposed to show up with a big splash, where everyone will know that he is here, no doubts, no subtleties, no skepticism, no two ways about it! I think even if he shows up like that, Mr. Khamanei and his friends would never say: "Mahdi Jan, we kept your seat warm for you and Islam intact, you can have it back now!" No, siree, I think they would have him arrested and sent to Evin where the sun don't shine! That's what I meant.
Let's take discussions about Bab and Bahaii faith to another area of the site, and you know there are many, and discuss them there. For all it's worth, I don't wish for my comment to be the basis of an ideological discussion here.
It Did? Huh!
by PedramMoallemian on Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:46 PM PDTThe preceding commercial was brought to you by the Alborz Bahai Center and does not represent views and opinions of this site, its owners, most its readers or advertisers.
Banafsheh...it happened already!
by alborz on Sat Jun 14, 2008 10:08 AM PDTAccording to the Baha'is, the Bab was the Mihdi and he was indeed attacked by the clergy in Iran during the 19th century. He was ultimately executed in 1850 in Tabriz and 20,000 of His followers were put to death. They also believe that the Promised One of all ages has returned and the convulsions that we are witnessing today will lead to a tranformation that will establish the prophesized new world order.
So as you correctly anticipated the entrenched clerics of each faith are the chief obstacles in the recognition of His return. Their role and credibility has not only been tainted but utterly discredited. They have joined the ranks of other discredited institutions and have failed miserably in being the standard bearers of englightenment and virtues. Whether it is Mullah's of Shiism or the Cardinals of Catholicism, both are implicated in the most heinous acts of immorality and injustice.
Shiites await the return of the Qaim, Sunnis await the return of the Mihdi, Jews await the return of Elijah, Christians the return of John the Baptist, Zoroaster the return of Ushídar-Máh, Buddhists the return of the Fifth Buddha, and so on.
According to the Baha'is these promises have been fulfilled in the Person of Bab and thus endingthe Prophetic Cycle and annoucing the Cycle of Fulfillment.
Alborz
God :)
by Live From Tehran (not verified) on Sat Jun 14, 2008 08:47 AM PDTThere is not a God, but a force of conscience, humanity,respect, law. The "God" that we believe in has been pushed upon us from 2500 years ago. it is created by con artists to manipulate weak people for their own personal profits. God and religion is nothing more than a myth. I believe in that which i can see.
Philosophy
by ImtheKing on Fri Jun 13, 2008 01:45 PM PDTChronolgically you say (the symbol '>' refers to 'come after in time')
Men > Animals > fishs > Sun > God > Terminator
Humm! why not
Great Eye, as usual
by Banafsheh (not verified) on Fri Jun 13, 2008 12:04 PM PDTHa Ha! Great!
You know, Eye, I often think that if Emam-e Zaman were to emerge right now, the mullahs would detain and discredit him. I think if Jesus Christ were to show up now, the Vatican would not stand to watch his discrediting them, so they would do it to him first! I don't know whether Jewish faith has a guy who is supposed to re-surface, too, but if they do, I am willing to bet that they wouldn't like his scrutiny of things done in Israel.
Indeed even if God shows up directly, I doubt the Mullahs and the priests and the rabbis would let people take him seriously! Religions rule states and fuel hate these days, in my opinion, and there is no room for a savior in this scenario, even God himself.
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