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How to change Iran from Religious Rule to a Democracy

 

Just saying it seems impossible.

 

But Iranians are nothing if not geniuses at deconstructing problems and finding a solution.

 

I am by no means a 

 

genius.

 

I can't even put genius on the same line as 

 

I.

 

But I can read. Especially I can read the two Constitutions of Iran, the one Khomeini put in place in 1979 when he stole the revolution out from under the people of Iran. And the second one Khamenei re-stole in 1989.

 

Iranians in 1979 had barely come together long enough to remove a tyrannical king, when Khomeini drove a wedge through them once again, and shattered their newfound courage and confidence by inserting his aberration version of Shiite Islam like shaft into their hearts.

 

The 1979 referendum drove the shaft deeper and was the seeming culmination of the sealed fate of Iranians. Until Khomeini finally and thankfully died.

 

Unfortunately at that time Iran was in an embarrassingly endless war with Iraq, and this time, the next opportunistic priest was Khamenei. Using the national emergency war powers, he edited the Constitution again in 1989, firming up the position of Supreme Leader into a full monarchy, and assigning it to himself for life. He then pointed all the useful organs of the state at him, bringing all armed forces and all other day to day decision making under his dark cloak of, well, what has essentially been nothing but the worst kind of darkness, that the Spanish Inquisition would be envious of.

 

To make his new law tamper-proof, Khamenei removed the most important part of any Constitution, the amendment rules. This eliminated ANY attempt to modify the Constitution by the people's representatives, since he also re-wrote the rues of what a popular vote is.

 

To seal this forever, and make any attempt to change it not only illegal, but blasphemous, he declared the new Constitution a "Perfect Document". This blessing (or curse) made it a sin to change Iran's new Constitution.

 

As we say in Persian, "…three tries, makes it a game…". To finally give his new abomination the slightest credibility he used the same coercive fear tactics that Khomeini had used in 1979 and issued a quick vote on it through another referendum, that once again the war-weary and shellshocked Iranian people, too afraid not to vote and risk being put on the same lists that Khomeini put executees and other enemies of the state on, in 1979, and everyone passed it with nary a whimper. So, both in 1979, and again in 1989 the Iranian referendums that religious rule derives almost all of its legitimacy were gained by the votes of fearful Iranians. Not free Iranians.

 

Which is the only reason Khamenei is in power today, and has so much of it.

 

If you, like me, knew this then shame on us for sitting around twiddling our thumbs since 1989 or 1979 if we want to be especially hard on our apathy. If this is news to you, but you now agree, and see this as an illegitimate act, good. 

 

Because it was also technically illegal.

 

So, that is the opening preamble for removing religious rule from Iran.

 

How this gets done is now where the deconstruction part of the problem comes in. Or it becomes rather simple. But that is not to say it will be easy. It will be almost impossible. But it is probable. Just very low probability.

 

Warning: What you are about to read next is considered to be a felony crime in Iran.

 

[NOTE: In the following please do not mistake "remove" with "kill". In no way do I advocate ANY violence in this corrective action. As a human being, I have no right to, and simply I cannot condemn ANYONE to death.]

 

In order to remove religious rule from Iran, you have to remove Khamenei, and the position of Supreme Leader. The very design of putting all power in one body, is precisely it's biggest weakness.

 

Here's how to remove (not kill) the Supreme Leader: 

 

"Someone" has to pull off a quiet emergency coup. This can be done now, or when Khamenei dies during the transition to a new Supreme Leader if he designates one.

 

"Someone" would have to place the Supreme Leader into protective custody, along with all members of the guardian and expediency councils. 

 

They would next need to temporarily suspend the Constitution, and maintain control of the government, while free elections of the people of Iran's true representatives are elected to a new congress or Majles. These elections must be monitored and conducted by a foolproof, cheat-proof system, with international monitors and possibly even conducted by a neutral entity like the UN.

 

The new congress would then take on the process of re-writing a popular, proper, and above all separation of religion and state type secular constitution with all of the usual human, civil, and civic rights of a modern era.

 

This process would also re-define the government, president, minsters, and major organs of a modern state.

 

During this time, "Someone" would maintain control and order, handing off control after the new Constitution has been put in place.

 

The former Supreme Leader and former members of the councils would remain in protective custody, and if according to the new Constitution, they were found to have committed crimes against the state and people of Iran, would face those charges fairly in a court of law and be given every right to defend their actions.

 

Hopefully the new Iran would banish the death penalty, and all of these folks would live the rest of their lives in peace, and above all, quiet.

Balatarin

Visfor Voy @VisforVoy

Voy! Is an Iranian expression of great frustration. A play on the film and comic book adaptation "V is for Vendetta". Get it? Object to Iran, and put energy into Pragmatic (not reckless, dangerous or foolhardy) Opposition to it.

DC

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amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy I Love Waterfalls and Find One of the most humorous things in the world; is the notion that Americans are a greater force for good & more civilized than Nazi's, Mullahs and Communists.

Regarding developing a democratic culture, Iranians can only start the process, though there is a long way to go based on What I consider the proven problem that helped give rise to 1979 being the "vile nature" of some Iranian people who actively seek to exploit based on No Evidence the blind faith of a uneducated mass with accusations that are not thought out.

Look at the list of vile accusations from the past which show any rational Iranian that Iran was not ready for democracy in 1979 and the same reason it is not today 1) The accusation that the late Shah was "a foreign imposed Stooge", (here the evidence shows the success of the Iranian Army and Diplomats) for example a) the pact signed with the USA by the Shahs team i.e. a pact serving Iran's interests, b) the opposition of the USA for Iran's industrial and economic development and the Shahs team acting independently after the US refused to honor its contracts by purchasing Iranians Steel from the Russians and c) successfully developing a diversified and developed economy being the 9th largest world economy, in opposition to the US government and d) the failure of operation ajax tudeh by the CIA with the withdrawal of their crew out of Iran and the subsequent success of the Iranian military plan.

2) The Shah being a Crook, If that is not vile and undocumented, consider a) the vast sums of land provided to Iranians to develop their farms free of church or large land ownership including his most of his own inherited land b) the king left Iran with Billions in the accounts of charities his team had helped develop and had used to successfully create the largest growth in percentage of middle class in the entire world c) the sum the entire kings family actually having in exile being less than what is spent on a single royal family in one year in europe while many of the countries having a smaller economy than the shahs team "Earned through hard work" for Iranians. d) the majority of the money being lost by an individual in the 80's and wealthy Iranians donating some money still leaving the Kings family with less than is spent on a royal family in europe in a single year. No court of law would ever consider the accusations as anything but vile.

3) Savak torturing Iranians, you see where I am going with vile accusations? At least in this case the UK government was nice enough to forge documents implicating Savak, but their data would never stand a day in court, kind of similar to the other forgeries they have done in the service of BP for example the Iraq war forgeries. Notice how the accusations are not about beating, which no one denies and not about killing under court orders, but intentional torture for example beating so severely that would imply many people were beaten to death by Savak. This is Vile because not a single person in Savaks Custody was ever proven to be beaten to death which would clearly suggest torture or anything close to it. Not the way we know of the USA rendition program or say the IRI having many people in their custody die of beatings as the poles had in their secret prisons, the cases and individuals are well documented in the case of the IRI and USA, not so for SAVAK, because Savak never engaged in tortured. Later on in the 70's even beating to arrest or break a prisoners spirit was no longer allowed. And solitary confinement regularly used by the USA and IRI was never used either. If you and I wanted to we could write and entire book on the vile accusations of some Iranians, ones that we know there is no supporting evidence for.

Even if the people of Iran want a Democratic Culture as I do, and in contrast to a democratic system, there are real proven obstacles that make this process unlikely in any ones life time.

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy I Love Waterfalls and Find One of the most humorous things in the world; is the notion that Americans are a greater force for good & more civilized than Nazi's, Mullahs and Communists.

There is so much Synchronicity going on these days. I just saw this article as I was asking visforvoy questions to see where he is in his understanding regarding the difference between democracy and "democratic systems" http://rt.com/usa/kelly-thomas-police-not-guilty-550/ its a pity Iranian.com software or admin do not allow any news articles from RT.com many are very meaningful.

A Broken Justice System for "a democratic system" is really not a shocker, it can not be a surprise for anyone with intellectual integrity. Having thousands of privately chartered flights every year that carry prisoners against their will, who are tortured and in many cases the prisoners are beaten to death under interrogation, is what is known as "the rendition program." And any system that makes torture and beating to death is by definition not "a justice system" or "a democracy", it is however the product of "a democratic system". Therefore Giving the people of Iran a choice between IRI and "a Democratic System" is itself a dishonest choice. What the American people think they have, versus what they have, is like the difference between Day and Night.

VisforVoy

Visfor Voy Voy! Is an Iranian expression of great frustration. A play on the film and comic book adaptation "V is for Vendetta". Get it? Object to Iran, and put energy into Pragmatic (not reckless, dangerous or foolhardy) Opposition to it.

Amir jan I just checked with Saiid and he said that RT is the culprit and there is no policy or directive to remove ANY links that are posted from other sites that allow their link to be posted.

He said that for some reason RT blocks their links within a few days after they are posted here, and he has ordered his technical staff to look into ways that could prevent that. But it is not being done on this end.

The correct way to post ANY external article link is via the NEWS button. Only original articles posted in the TEXT button are reviewed for content policy violation.

Violations include abusive/threatening language, extreme profanity, slander, and plagiarism.

So I hope that this restores your clearly shaken confidence a bit in the integrity of this site. When it changed hands I worked with Saiid extensively to help with the editorial policy and fix a lot of things about posting etiquette and general rules to address the many weaknesses of the pure jungle law and anarchy that it was under JJ.

Although I did not get everything that I wanted, I got most of it. What I also got and what I encourage you and everyone with a hopefully fast fading bitter taste left in their mouths to do, is engage and contact Saiid directly whenever you have any concerns. The more I interacted with him the more I came to see him for what he truly is, which is a very honorable man, and well intentioned intelligent benefactor of one of the most important Iranian sites of all time.

Although this may look like it, I think you know I would never kiss up.

FYI, so far, the RT link you posted is still active. I will try it again in a couple of days and follow up with Saiid and his team if it is eventually blocked, so we can get to the bottom of why.

But know that RT is behind it.

Anglo_Phile

Anglo Phile

@abdy moghbel:

Wow brother! Is this your vision of democracy? Iranian style :))

AbdyMoghbel

Abdy Moghbel Abdy Moghbel

Further essential conditions include absolute separation of religion from government; life time barred from political activity imposed on ALL constituent members of I.R.I. past and present; as well as all clergymen and women. Complete ban on all religious teachings in all institutions; complete ban on all forms of religious activity and discussion outside of the four walls of home. Dismantlement of revolutionary guards, insitutions and organisations. Return of all assests misappropriated by khamenei, his family and all members of his present and past government and supporters. Removal of Iranian citizenship from all present and past constituent members of I.R.I.followed by mass deportation of all those found guilty of treasonable acts while in power during the reign of I.R.I.

VisforVoy

Visfor Voy Voy! Is an Iranian expression of great frustration. A play on the film and comic book adaptation "V is for Vendetta". Get it? Object to Iran, and put energy into Pragmatic (not reckless, dangerous or foolhardy) Opposition to it.

I wouldn't go so far as to impose any sort of bans on anything really. That would just drive religion back into the shadows of the alleys, which is exactly where they came from in the first place.

No, I would rather keep them in the sunlight where they can dry up into a fine harmless dust forever.

Zendanian

Zendanian An injury to one is an injury to all.

Majority of Iranians have demonstrated time after time they are against the mixture of religion and politics.
Personal beliefs, including religion, is no excuse to prolong a bloody theocracy through repressive violence.
The only reason mullahs are still in power is not because majority of people in Iran are muslim, it is because of those Basiji thugs in the streets.
Remove those Basiji thugs from the street and the whole Islamic Republic of Hell will evaporate in less than a day.
As they say in Iran: "Dictator, welcome to the End!"

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy I Love Waterfalls and Find One of the most humorous things in the world; is the notion that Americans are a greater force for good & more civilized than Nazi's, Mullahs and Communists.

The reason why the IRI has the capability to have such brute force and oppression is they have followers who will blindly follow them and will do all manner of crimes against the people of Iran for the IRI. If you were to compare between the IRI and "democratic systems" you'd realize it's the same difference, in the case of democratic systems you have people enslaved to an ideal, which is not present in practice and with many supporters are gladly willing to remain enslaved and blind from the truth. In contrast the IRI has blind followers who brought the IRI Mafia to power in 1979, they did have the popular mandate back in 1979 which is the basis for how "democratic systems" dys-function. The shocker is not what an unproven system "democratic systems" are, its that any one is even debating this subject today.

VisforVoy

Visfor Voy Voy! Is an Iranian expression of great frustration. A play on the film and comic book adaptation "V is for Vendetta". Get it? Object to Iran, and put energy into Pragmatic (not reckless, dangerous or foolhardy) Opposition to it.

Exactly. The ONLY reason Iran is an Islamic republic today is by brute force and oppression.

If you put it to a fair and uninterfered with vote, that was private and fair, and had a proper civic process in place for running things, few Iranians would choose to let their Mollah run the show.

Some still would though. Of course they are idiots.

And in a free Iran we could call them that and answer their arguments, without fear.

Zendanian

Zendanian An injury to one is an injury to all.

As you might have noticed they've been unable to even deal with the Greens, because they know exactly how deep in Shitte they are.
They've had two presidential candidates in house arrest for years now, and they still don't have a clue what to do with them; to kill them would be too costly, to let the case fester, creates more attention. Like mentioning them everyday of the week.
There's a metaphor in Persian vernacular about a stick of wood, with both sides "golden," (Chob do sar tala). And that is IR's predicament at the moment.

parvizsahand

parvizsahand

There arre not any way to do it till the majority of iranians are moslem!

VisforVoy

Visfor Voy Voy! Is an Iranian expression of great frustration. A play on the film and comic book adaptation "V is for Vendetta". Get it? Object to Iran, and put energy into Pragmatic (not reckless, dangerous or foolhardy) Opposition to it.

I thought all Iranians are automatically moslems.

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy I Love Waterfalls and Find One of the most humorous things in the world; is the notion that Americans are a greater force for good & more civilized than Nazi's, Mullahs and Communists.

with this IRI mafia no one is Free to leave either.

siatexas

siatexas Author of Comfort Food Without Borders Chef/Author/Consultant

...soon!

Zendanian

Zendanian An injury to one is an injury to all.

By definition a Democracy has to include all doctrines and all social/political groups including religious & non-religious ones.
The title in here refers to transforming the political order of Iran from a theocratic one to a democratic one.
In a theocracy political power is monopolized by religious forces.
In a democracy there's no monopoly of power. Every social forces has a presence & a share of power according to their social base & power.
Religion will remain with us in many forms & manifestations. From the traditional forms to newer ones. A newer form of religion that is oft overlooked is what Walter Benjamin had referred to: "Capitalism as Religion."

Anglo_Phile

Anglo Phile

Sorry boys but I have got some news for you all:

Religion is here to stay. Without religion there will be no democracy!

Now, let's move on.

What was the next question?


VisforVoy

Visfor Voy Voy! Is an Iranian expression of great frustration. A play on the film and comic book adaptation "V is for Vendetta". Get it? Object to Iran, and put energy into Pragmatic (not reckless, dangerous or foolhardy) Opposition to it.

The next question is, if Religion is here to stay, why are more people leaving it than joining it?

VisforVoy

Visfor Voy Voy! Is an Iranian expression of great frustration. A play on the film and comic book adaptation "V is for Vendetta". Get it? Object to Iran, and put energy into Pragmatic (not reckless, dangerous or foolhardy) Opposition to it.

Common Sociological fact.

When a society becomes better off, they tend to leave religion rather than join it. Look around, the only countries where Islam or Christianity are reasonably "thriving" are poor.

When you are hungry and hopeless, it is easier to put your faith in God.

But as soon as you become fed, you start to be able to see your own potential, and that leads to education, and very shortly after that, you come to depend on an increasingly absent God far less than the priest would like.

This is why priests always want you to be pious, humble, and well, poor.

Which is why they are always asking for your money.

Anglo_Phile

Anglo Phile

V V joon are you being serious or have you received a Gold Globe for comedy darling? Just think about what you are saying (or if you wish don't think):

"When a society becomes better off, they tend to leave religion rather than join it. Look around, the only countries where Islam or Christianity are reasonably "thriving" are poor. But as soon as you become fed, you start to be able to see your own potential, and that leads to education, and very shortly after that, you come to depend on an increasingly absent God far less than the priest would like."

My God where did you find these "common sociological facts"?!

Were Iranians better off in 1979 or in 1969? or in 1959? or in 1949?
If they were better off in 1979 (which they were) so why te hell did thet rally in millions under the leadership of a priest; Imam Khomeini?

How about the very country where you are living in, yes tha's it, the U S of A. Isn't it the most well off country in the world? And one of the most religious ones too? Where does "God Bless America" at the end of each presidential speech comes from? From non-religiosity?!!

So you see darling, your sociological facts may win you a GG award in comedy but I am afraid do not match with my socio-sexual facts - LOL

VisforVoy

Visfor Voy Voy! Is an Iranian expression of great frustration. A play on the film and comic book adaptation "V is for Vendetta". Get it? Object to Iran, and put energy into Pragmatic (not reckless, dangerous or foolhardy) Opposition to it.

Ah! So you are by nature a doubting Iranian and always want proof? Fantastic!

OK, Let's see if you can find the flaw in my argument (Hint: There is a VERY big one)

The following recent study showed that social mobility tends weaken religion.

Education, Social Mobility and Religious Movements:
A Theory of the Islamic Revival in Egypt∗
Christine Binzel Jean-Paul Carvalho
Heidelberg University & IZA University of California, Irvine
August 2013

This study showed that,

"...decline in social mobility combined with inequality can produce a religious revival..."

"...The principal idea is that religion is a coping mechanism for unfulfilled aspiration, which occurs when consumption falls below an expectations-based reference point."

This therefore proves my assertion that poor people tend to gravitate towards religion. But when a society moves up on the economic scale, or gets fed, they tend to stop the religious nonsense.

Or, that religion has essentially has no prominent place in a society once it has become "modern".

OK, now find the flaw. Again, it's right there in front of you. Remember the thrill is in the hunt. Not the kill. :)

Anglo_Phile

Anglo Phile

Oh I seeeeeeee V V joon. Now it is as clear as dayligt to me. You see V V joon I am very slow in processing your super fast super smart analyses. So let's see if I have understood you correctly:

Basically you are saying that because the people of Iran were so starved or dying from hungar they duirng the Shah's time, they turned to Islam and became hardline supporters of Imam Khomeini and now that they are super rich and over-fed, they have turned away from religion and want to get rid of religion. Right?

My God you are a magician V V joon. You can make people understand the most complex of arguments by just a few words! Whey don't you run your own ministry on God's TV? You will find millions of followers overnight or overday if you prefer!

And did you say flaw? What flaw?

VisforVoy

Visfor Voy Voy! Is an Iranian expression of great frustration. A play on the film and comic book adaptation "V is for Vendetta". Get it? Object to Iran, and put energy into Pragmatic (not reckless, dangerous or foolhardy) Opposition to it.

Apparently I am either too fast for you, or you are shall we just say "not as fast", because you're not getting it.

The Islamic part of the revolution was fed by the jonoob-shahri bazari led poor. I argue that the pure revolution was "stolen" by Khomeini when he saw the power slipping away as people got rid of the Shah and started looking seriously at un-religious democracy (Bani Sadr/Bazargan days).

He then mobilized the poor with the help of the Bazaris (who have always supported the cleric class), and took the revolution away from a moderate un-religious direction, and drove it over to the Masjed, where it has lain slowly bleeding, now for 33 years.

Look and see, the followers are still to this day, the poor. whoa re being fed twice by a religious class that knows they are only loyal to whoever feeds them.

Which is every Friday, after the chanting, and fist pumping against America and Israel is over with, "Time to Eat Boys!

None of these folks, if fed full, and given a proper job, and the free unenforced will to choose, would EVER step foot in a Mosque again.

Another correction to your comment, I am referring to the poor of Iran. While this is not the entire people of Iran, sadly those middle class folks are too afraid to speak their mind and lose what little they have obtained by objecting.

The rich of Iran have increased their wealth with this regime so they are complicit. Estimates are that the wealthy class in Iran have prospered greatly under the IRI, and have increased their wealth by over 100 times that of the Shah era wealthy class. Adjusted for real dollars.

This is the stark reality of Iran today. The rich have simply changed guard, but have gotten richer. So they aren't about to argue. The poor cannot complain because they are being fed well by the religious class, who does so in order to maintain majority power. The middle class are struggling to survive and have everything to lose. So they aren't about to object.

This is called a Perfect Storm.