Misc

Darius Kadivar, what type of Iran would you support?

You say that Shapur Bakhtiar would have brought Iran to a better future.

Bakhtiar accepted to be the Shah's last Prime Minister.

If Bakhtiar had won, what type of future would you see for Iran?

A constitutional monarchy?

But wasn't that what Mossadegh tried to get Mohammad Reza Pahlavi to do in 1953?

How would 1979 change anything?

Would Mohammad Reza Pahlavi or Reza Pahlavi reliquish power to the parliament?

During their history neither Reza Khan nor Mohammad Reza did that.

Wouldn't it be plausable to say that Mehdi Bazargan and Shapur Bakhtiar were both optomists?

He was Bold But Blind ...( See Entire Speech here)

Here is the full speach he gave in self defence:

I don't think Capital Punishment is something that can be defended no matter from which perspective we try to look at it. He did not deserve Capital Punishment despite trying to Kidnap the Royal Family and probably Kill the Shah or members of the Royal family including the Crown Prince Reza. 

He was not the first person to Try and Kill the Shah or his Family. Many others tried to do the same and in most cases the Shah pardoned his would be assassins. I believe one of such terrorists ( for that was what their actions would be called even in a democratic society) even was  named minister of communications and head of Iran's National Television after he repented for his criminal attempt to Kill the Shah.

But Golesorkhi was a dangerous demagogue in the context of a country like Iran. He would have probably  become an MKO or Fedayeen Khalg during the 1979 Revolution and most probably would have even endorsed executions that took place against people like Hoveyda or the Imperial Army officers ...

That is no excuse for his execution but like many Iranians who sacrificed their youth for a cause they believed in blindly he was not someone who would betray his beliefs by begging forgiveness. That in my point of view was a Respectable behavior on his part no matter how much the ideology he was blindly justifying was EXACTLY what was implemented in Iran after the Islamic Revolution.

The Shah's regime reduced the definition of its political prisoners to the Term "Marxisteh Eslami" aka "Islamic Marxist" and if you listen carefully THAT IS EXACTLY What Golesorkhi defines himself as.

But Not all political prisoners under the Shah's regime were necessarily demagogues or fanatics like Golesorkhi and did not deserve to be imprisoned for their political convictions. No one claims The Shah's regime was a Democracy. Not being truly a Constitutional Monarchy and therefore a Democracy, Attempting to kidnap the Royal Family or Kill the Shah was simply an Act of Treason according to the laws of the Land. These laws were disproportional maybe in regard to the alledged crime but understandable given the circumstances under which the country was governed.

Also In a Constituional Monarchy Golesorkhi and his culprits would have faced a CIVIL COURT and NOT a MILITARY COURT as we see here. He would not face a Capital Punishment like Death but at worst Life Imprisonment at best a more or less short imprisonement based on his repentance or not.

But in a region like the Middle East and Not just a country like Iran  his predicament would have been similar in any country in the Middle East or North Africa at the time ( most of which are Republic's by the way) be it Egypt, Turkey, Tunisia, Morocco, Syria, Iraq, Jordan or Saudi Arabia. If one looks at Morroco which is trying hard to reform itself into a truly Constitutional Monarchy today it nevertheless has a history of political assassinations and imprisonments under the former King Hassan II. The Case of General Oufkir and his family are well known for he was not only assassinated for trying to overthrow the Monarchical regime but also members of his family were imprisoned or sent to exile  Todays King of Morroco Mohamed VI is trying to compensate former families who were subject to such injustices under his father's reign.

But one has to understand that in a country like Iran in those days with a common frontier and Threat by the Soviet Union more than just Golesorkhi's alledged crime it was his ideas that represented a threat to Iran's security. Unfortunately dictatorships or Authocratic regimes like Iran although not Totalitarian (like their northern Neighbour the Soviet Union) had to set a RED LINE for Society in general in regard to political expression and mindset if they want to guarantee the system's survival or perenity. We All know that Such a RED LINE is SUBJECTIVE and CRITICIZEABLE and therefore should be denounced. But One can also wonder if given the circumstances and if the nation instead of blindly following Khomeiny (due to the political and intellectual frustrations created by the lack of political freedoms) had been patient at least for a short decade or even 5 years (since the Shah died in 1980 and this trial took place in 1975 or 76) the political transition towards if not total democracy but at least a more free political atmospher and  broader forms of expression added to less Royal intervention in politics ( since Reza would be only in his 20's and certainly in no real position to rule as his father or grandfather) the country would have been on a similar political track like Turkey Today.

Political predictions are never accurate and one could have also imagined and quite probable that a military Coup could have followed the Shah's demise and the New Shah and Royal Family would simply be puppets of a far more dictatorial and unpredictable military oligarchy instead.

What is certain however is that by the time of Golesorki's Trial, the country was politically at crossroads and the lack of political plurality and debate only agravated the society's frustrations and naturally rose its expectations at all levels.

If Golesorkhi's execution did not avoid the Gap between the Royal Institution and the People from deepening, I am not certain that had he been pardoned or got a Life imprisonment that this Gap would have been halted or avoided for that matter.

Golesorkhi was a JUSQU'AU BOUTIST like the French would say that is he was going to Go ALL THE WAY and was Ready to Pay the Price. He was certainly a Hero to anyone who believed in his ideas and some still do but he was Not a Victim. He knew the risks he was taking and new that he had a choice. To Repent would have most probably saved his life but wouldn't avoid a Life Imprisonment at worst.

He chose Not to Repent and therefore to Die. It was a respectable choice given his convictions but certainly a BLIND one given the circumstances since all others who Repented got short proson sentences or were simply pardoned.

Society deserved a better political atmosphere and freedom of debate on all ideological issues but was it prepared for such freedoms at the time ? I don't think so ... but then again if the government or Imperial regime is to be blamed it is for not creating or Not taking the time to create the much needed political liberlization that an Impatient Iranian society expected its outcome particularly the Bourgeoisie ( which Golesorkhi's Marxist Leninist ideas targeted negatively as he does in his speech) who was by then tempted by Revolutionary ideas.

I think that the Shah's regime was essentially Unlucky Time Wise in regard to political liberalization than truly unwilling to under take such necessary reforms. The Monarchy could have become a truly Constitutional Monarchy like in European Monarchies today.

But beyond the excuse that Iranians may not have been Politically mature, I think that even a Timely and carefully planned political liberalization of society would not be done without its share of troubles and unpredictable upheavals. What defines Freedom and Democracy is precisely not having any ideological boundery as long as civil peace and state institutions are respected. We all know that to achieve such an atmosphere cannot be done overnight nor without its share of tensions. The country needed a Winston Churchill to guarantee such a transition while preserving the Crown and that means the State and its major institutions. That Person did appear but alas too late and for mearly  37 days befire the Revolution's ultimate Triumph followed by its deadly revengeful aftermath.

His Name was Shahpour Bakhtiar:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWJc5bSSyUg

Alas We were an Impatient Nation ...

I agree with those who say there is no comparison,

... but for me the message of this clip is about the difference between a (for the lack of a better word) 'fundamentalist' and a 'moderate'. Unfortunately - or fortunately? - we seldom see moderates show the same passion and conviction for what they believe in, not because their beliefs are inferior or less valid, but because the way of thinking that leads one to become a moderate is a different one.

Tomorrow is the anniversary

Tomorrow is the anniversary of Dr. Bakhtiar's murder. A man who spent a total of six years in Shah's jails and was banned for ten years from leaving the country, yet in 1979 he had the foresight to see the religious dictatorship that was looming and all the tragedies that it would result. If only we had more politicians like him back then who had his courage and foresight.

As he always finished his speeches 'Iran will never die'

Tomorrow is the anniversary of Dr. Bakhtiar's murder. A man who spent a total of six years in Shah's jails and was banned for ten years from leaving the country, yet in 1979 he had the foresight to see the religious dictatorship that was looming and all the tragedies that it would result. If only we had more politicians like him back then who had his courage and foresight.

As he always finished his speeches 'Iran will never die'

As he always finished his speeches 'Iran will never die'

//azarmehr.blogspot.com/2009/08/16th-anniversary-of-bakhtiars-murder.html

Dear Darius,

No, I do not think we lived in two different Iran, but I think we had two different circumstances and two different views of Iran, naturally.

I only responded to your "help, I am confused" to the best of my knowledge and my only intention was to help. You tricked me. You are not confused. You know all the answers. I am happy for you standing on the right side of issues and I wish I could see the world as you see, then we could join forces and be united.

I wonder now that we see world differently, is there a common ground that you and me and possibly a lot of other people can unite?

Peace,

Shaayad Keh

IRI makes Shah look like an angel!!

Not in a million years, would my brother had thought that his dream regime would become a nightmare! His short life (19) was sacrificed so we could get rid of the dictator shah, and be replaced with a just regime that would bring true democracy for Iran!

My dad's army buddy from kermanshah ( Akbar Agha) was kicked by savak so much for eating the pamphlets, that he died on the street. And this regime, of my, is much worse!

No Roylaty and no Islamic! Democratic Iran only! Well, God knows what would that mean!

Different Iran!

Mr/Mis.Shayad Ke.

I guess we lived in different Iran . Your Iran was full of hatred and it was all  about how to hate Shah.Blame theShah and nakhost vazir ,paseban and afsar and this and that.Like our parents and ourselves had nothing to do with corruption , it was evil Shah every morning telling  every body forcing them to accept bribe  and betray their countrymen.

We were all loving, caring and constructive citizens, we build hospitals and roads and went to villages to help the sicks and that evil  Shah ordered his Savakis to come and take us to jail and tear down all our good work.

Well, you should be thankful,Shah is dead, we have Bahare Azadi now .

Why can't you all be happy for  once and stop complaining?

Go and enjoy it , no need for green, velvet or red or yellow revolution .You guys got what you deserve .

My bad ;)

I know Ali jan. I'd corrected that mistake some hours ago......... apparently the coffee was not so strong this morning :) Or, I'm getting too old!
Thanks for having reminded me the correct name....
I'm unforgivable !

What is this????

Pleased to see that they at least ironed the prisoner's pajama but must buy new flip flops....

Please don't compare these animals to Shah. As bad as he was, his cruelty was not even near these Akhunds....

Show Trials

Souri jaan:

 Please read my comment again. I believe you misunderstood me.

 From what I understand- and I could be wrong-there were two group of political prisoners under the Shah: Those who took up arms (or were suspected of taking arms), and those who opposed the regime non-violently.

 The members of the former group usually got a harsher interogation . The latter group was usually not treated too badly (Examples would be Mehdi Bazargan and his peers. As a wealthy architect, he even had his own personal chef cook his meals in prison, or Karim Sanjabi, a hardcore Mossadeghi who was the head of Bar Association).

I don't think Bazargan, Sanjabi, or Bakhtiar were ever tortured though they spent lenghty prison terms. Two biggest threats to the Shah, namely, Mossadegh and Khomeini- though in custody- were never drugged, degraded, or tortured. 

   The comparison here just does not work. I see Golesorkhi here, freely talk against the regime. There is no sign of torture on him. He denounces the regime, stands his grounds as a Marxist-Leninist- who like any other Maxist-Leninist has a duty to violently overthrow the capitalist system of his country- and embraces death. (BTW, Souri jaan, his comrade was Karamatollah Daneshian, not Daneshvar!)

The Shah's regime was very mindful of it's international image. This regime does not care.

There was Golesorkhi, and Daneshian, and several others. All the names can be written in one page. Most of us who grew up under the Shah know their names.

 Compare it with today. How many pages, after pages, after pages does it fill?

For every Golesorkhi, who was given his wish of going to his death, appear on tv and tell the world about his alleged crime, sacrificing himself for his belief, how many were killed under the Islamic regime, without being given such chance?

How many families moved to exile, because they could not take the Imperial regime any more? Compare it with today.

I am not defending the Shah's regime. I just call it like I see it. I may be wrong.

The reformist leaders on trial can only be compared to infamous Stalin's Moscow Trials of 1936-1938 .

een koja o aan koja ?

mistakes of yesteryears are the reason for presents'events.

they (pahlavis') have admitted  and paid for their mistakes'But these thugs never will and....

kharbozeh melon test not same as khiyar cucumber!! Maziar

At least Golesorkhi was not made to appear in a pyjama

maybe not a big thing but he was not.  

A big difference and a big similarity

Difference: Golsorkhi was tried for plotting and planning to kidnap and murder members of the royal family, including shah's son.

Abtahi was not planning to kill Khamenei's children, or anyone else for that matter.

Golsorkhi was given a chance to repent, but he insisted that he would not back off, and if freed, would again carry on with similar plots as driven by his ideology.

A teacher and his wife who were also part of this kidnap/murder plot were tried at the same time. They both repented. The court ordered their release and they were both freed.

Similarity: He should not have been executed. "Human life" has never had much value in Iran. It still does not. Unfortunately, we have only regressed in this area in the past 30 years.

whats the message of this posting?

if it tries to compare, there is no comparson. because there is a difference between savak and vavak brutality. also we dont know how these people have been threatened then and now. besides nowadays nobody believes in these confessions because whoever has got out has denied their confessions.

At least golesorkhi looks

At least golesorkhi looks healthy and not on drugs.

Dear Darius,

 "Please tell me how many of you lived in Iran in time of Shah, read nothing and did nothing but you were picked up and then executed."

What a funny question. You obviously know that people who did nothing, read nothing and got executed are not here to answer you.

There are tones of books and information about these heroes online that if you can refer to for your information if you have any interest.

A lot of people touched my life when I was younger. They thought me about life, civic duties, social responsibility and the relationship between people and state. Golesorkhy, by far stands out for me. The content of his speech combined with his bravery and logic in Shah's court room, had so much impact on me that I still feel obligated to respect him as a person who changed history.

Do not get me wrong. I am proud of you that you do not see the need to have heroes like him. But, then and there, for social and cultural reasons, at least for me i needed to have such heroes.

Not to mention that not all our heroes were right. The left movement made a lot of mistakes and they were so ruthlessly defeated that after their defeat, barely any of them could sum up what happened.

And I could understand you blaming us, or my generation, for what goes on in Iran today. You can easily see the depression and a religious dictatorship caused by the generation before. But you are also taking what you have now for granted. The opportunity that you can see, blame, learn, live, enjoy are other bi-products of what has happened before you.

Think about it.

We did not plan to ruin Iran when we were resisting Shah. We did the best we could with all the knowledge and resources that we rightly or wrongly used to get here and if that experience could be used for our younger generation to direct Iran into a better Iran, please use it by all means.

But this should not mean that all our heroes that dedicated their lives to revolution wasted their lives. Let that be a lesson to you. I do not think we can achieve our democracy or whatever it is that we are after without have gone through the previous revolution and this movement. We just got to be smart about it

Peace 

Shaayad Keh

P.S. On a shorter note I know many people who got arrested by Shah's Savak for having a pamphlet, reading one, or simply being at the wrong place at the wrong time. All of them were torchered, none executed though. But i know many people also who got executed for their membership in the leftists organizations. You probably knew that. 

Revolutionaries are all crazy

I think both regime should have left them alone. These morons are no danger to any regime. They are just retarded and confused beyond any sense of reality. Of course there are problems in any society or country, and there probably will be problems for centuries to come, if not longer. In fact, some have argued that problems are part and parcel with life - you can never have no-problem, because that itself is a huge problem. But these individuals who pick a fight with a regime are just plain crazy. Leave them alone and in a short time they become a joke in the society. Who cares what they babble about? There was a time when some people thought that communism is so wonderful and is so different and some thought that it was so evil. Both sides over-estimated. Communism, left alone, turned into a sad joke. Nobody cares anymore. The same is with any extremists/revolutionary. Leave them alone. They will be a joke in a little while. 

Dear Darius

First, you said: 

I do not know for how long you can beleive in false heroes,I bet you all supported khomeini and if you didn't, your parents did .

Well, that description doesn't fit me since I did not lift a finger for Khomeini and I was against this revolution, so were my family members. 

I also think that people who were saying that Iran did not have a free political atmosphere and wanted more freedom of speech and thoughts during Shah's time are not "false" heroes.

They wanted to be free to read any book they wanted and speak about politics without being in danger of SAVAK. What's false about that? If they were allowed more freedom, they wouldn't be thinking of fighting the system and taking up arms against the government. 

As Abarmard said below, "In either regimes, if the system relaxes a bit, all revolutionaries are reformists" and they would just form a different political party...  (that last part added by me)

IRANdokht

I am confused , pls help!

Mr.Gholesorki says : He got jailed and tortured for not even

reading a leaflet.......!

Is he exaggerating ,is he lying or was he another victim of the Leftist in Iran, who to set up innocent students and indivdual to be recruited for underground activities?

With all due respect.I also did  read Marx and Shariati,tudes leaflet, fadaian and others, with my  Polytechnics class mates ,but

we were never picked up and no one ever  executed us.

Please tell me how many of you lived in Iran in time of Shah, read nothing and did nothing but you were picked up and then executed.

I am really  confused.

I am wondering , if I can ever call these people Hero and some sort of Idols.I think , they were fools and wasted their energy to grow mustach and yak for hours and just find something to complain about.

They never did any thing constructive, always led  us to path of destruction . They weren't original .They were borrowers and talker.

I do not know for how long you can beleive in false heroes,I bet you all supported khomeini and if you didn't, your parents did .

Well, we( who do not consider these people heroes)  thank you for your gift of making Iran a nation wide prison and letting bunch of sheikh and mullahgive us valayat faghih or whatever .

Thank you

Listen to what Golesorkhi says

With all due respect to the people who have posted their views here.

I believe the message of this video is not to compare the caliber or strength of the political prisoners before and after the revolution. Golesorkhi's video and his message is very clear here. He starts his defense by stating that political accusation in Iran does not require any evidence or proof. You can simply label individuals and put them in jail.

In this context, analyze what has happened to the reformist in Iran. They have been jailed without any basis. So please do not compare the  individuals here; use Golesorkhi's message to analyze what happened to Abtahi.

Peace with you all, 

Not a fair comparison.....

 This is not a fair comparison at all for the reasons mentioned below but the motives of the person that made this video would be interesting to figure out.

Is the intention to compare prisoners then and now or the intention is to compare the regimes and their techniques of torcher?

Either way,(s)he is not playing with a full deck of cards  It should not be ethically right to play with people's emotion at a time like this. I do not think the opposition will gain anything from it but IRI might.

Peace, 

Shaayad Keh

Dear dokhtar e Iran

Shah broadcast of the trial, first of its kind was based on an advice to show that Iran is freer than "known" by its citizens. He wanted to embarrass his enemies and worked exact opposite. It was a mistake to do so as it made people more angry.

There are not much of a difference here. We have regimes that have closed doors on any possible reforms and political openness. In either regimes, if the system relaxes a bit, all revolutionaries are reformists.

No comparison

These guys are not from the same caliber of Golsorkhi and his contemporaries, or even some of the prisoners now who would not confess and are found dead these days.
The ones confessing now are mostly reformists which means they're pacifist and for peaceful forward transition of the regime.

Besides, unlike Shah's interrogators, this regime's torturers are convinced that even if their prisoners die, they'll go to heaven for having killed a mofsed and mohareb. So resisting them is probably much more painful.

If you want to compare Shah's regime with this one, compare the two trials. The fact that Golsorkhi was not making a confession but the court proceedings and his speech was shown on TV for all to see.

IRANdokht

moral of the story ....

iranvaliazad, that was one half-baked roundabout way of endorsing shah!

ali p, like souri said, golsorkhi is one of the few in his specific group that was executed for not eating shit (eating shit = apologizing). the others who received lighter sentences had to do the same false confessions that you see on iranian tv today.  the fundamental ways of treatment of political prisoners, torture and executions have not changed. by fundamental, i mean a rape is a rape, murder is murder, .... perhaps the magnitude of these crimes have increased under this regime but that does not put a feather in the shah's cap.

the video shows a principled person who didn't buckle under monarchist tryanny versus an unprincipled clergy who buckled under cleric rule.  in one, they showed the man talk on his own behalf; the other, they use still pictures and song by a singer. how odd?

Ali P.

Another difference is the very fact that Shah's agents were well aware that torture is wrong and their action is inhumane and someday they might have to pay for it ... and some of them did.

In islamic regime, it is the government of moslem clerics who has legalized torture to safeguard its existance, they have legalized rape and torture and then execution of virgin girls and therefore the islamic agents do commit these atrocities as part of their job description, in their sick islamic minds, it is fully acceptable to torture.  islam as rotten their brains.

NO Ali jan!

Not true! At that same time of Golsorkhi's trial, he along with Daneshian were the only ones among the group who did not confess and resist until the last minutes.

All others have been sentenced to only a few years and then released. Only Golsorkhi and Daneshian were executed.

I don't remember the name of a guy in the (maybe peshekzadeh??) he acted a real bastard!! For his defense, he went up to accusing Golsorkhi to be the one manipulating him and others!!!

Progress has been made baabaa!

   Had the Shah's regime been equipped with advanced interogation techniques of the Islamic regime, Khosrow Golesorkhi would have confessed of being a foreign agent, thrown himself at the mercy of the court, and asked the Leader of the (White) Revolution to forgive him.