Misc

The Same Dust

O CHILDREN OF MEN!

Know ye not why We created you all from the same dust?

That no one should exalt himself over the other. Ponder at all times in your hearts how ye were created.

Since We have created you all from one same substance it is incumbent on you to be even as one soul, to walk with the same feet, eat with the same mouth and dwell in the same land, that from your inmost being, by your deeds and actions, the signs of oneness and the essence of detachment may be made manifest.

Such is My counsel to you, O concourse of light! Heed ye this counsel that ye may obtain the fruit of holiness from the tree of wondrous glory.

- Baha'u'llah,
Hidden Words (Kalimat Maknuna),
Arabic No. 68

//bahai-library.com/?file=bahaullah_hidden_wo...

----

Could such an Author ever suggest that Baha'is seek earthly power or exalt themselves above anyone?

I aint't taking guidance

I aint't taking guidance from no "Sir".

No siree Bob!

Bahais believe they have

Bahais believe they have "ALL the ANSWERS"... they are the "VERY BEST"... they will "TAKE OVER THE ENTIRE WORLD SOON" according to their plans... and their prophet is not a prophet but the essence of "GOD"...(pehaps not just the essence either!)

Kindly give it a rest.

alborz

Can we agree that the narrower the perspective the more likely it is that our perception will be incomplete and likely to be inaccurate?

Is it not imperative to consider sources of bias, when evaluating a perspective? Do you think it is possible that in your spiritual journey, you might have become more biased, provided the very nature of the subject you are exposed to? Given such sensitive and deeply affecting subject as religion, have you ever considered that outsiders might be better able to zero in such sources of bias and narrowing in on a particular focus?

Also, is it not possible for us to be more influenced by the practice of faith vs. the principles of faith?

Absolutely, and I am glad you see it this way. To me that is the road test to evaluate how a religion is really working, particularly from a social standpoint and many of it's facets. Isn't trivializing or ignoring the practice of faith, in essence ignoring many factors that interact to form our very own behaviors? Isn't this what we are actually evaluating, to see how it works in real life?

My main objective, has been the statement that your faith undermines freedom of expression, which forms an integral part of a healthy, and progressive society. To be open to critiquing anything, including your own faith if necessary, otherwise archais laws and dictatorships can set in. (e.g. lack of admittance of women to UHJ)

And finally, would your friend's assessment of the doctor's advice as a compromise on your freedoms be valid? .....

..... Parents are responsible to make sure that their children are enrolled and attending school. Are the individual freedoms of the parents and children compromised in this case?

I believe my point might have been misconstrued here, so allow me to clarify. As long as it is for the good of individual first, I don't see any problems if it happens to be good for the society also, in fact,I prefer it this way. In the example that I provided, I wrote about the bahais's decision to stay in Iran despite abuses, as reflecting a decision that is good for the society, but making individuals suffer. Contrasting that with your examples, I believe those two hypothetical cases are good for the individual first, which happen to be good for the society also. I am not sure if your examples reflect my point. BTW, someone might put a philosophical argument here that the bahais in Iran are not suffering, and they are being spiritual, etc, however, I hope my point is not lost that when I state they go through a lot of abuse, for a geater cause, and why I see it this way. Not totally related here, but for further clairification, let me add that I believe under no circumstance, should something that is good for an individual, but bad for society.

So exchanges on these blogs are never between two people, but a crowd of by-standers, many of whom in this case have malicious intent. Hence the very original objection that you directed at me.

I understand why my very first post in this blog might have been understood this way, which BTW, did not mention you , however, in my very first post that I did mention you, there was no such intent. Not to rationalize, but sometimes when I ask questions, I get the impression that I am not getting a full, straight answer which can be very frustrating. The very quote that you posted from Bahaulla ( Sunday May 31,2009 7:25 pm) explains some of very behaviors that I encounter.

PARTING WORDS: from the Seven Martyrs of Hamadan

for those who are interested.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6LwbauCrG8

ab111, how much is your salary

Baha'u'lla'h spent well over a decade inside a prison in the city of Akka'. This is a well documented fact. After that, he was basically under house arrest for the rest of the time (12+ years) he was in other parts of Akka', namely Bahji.

So lets see, being under house arrest for a decade after having spent a decade in one of the worst prisons of the time really is not that bad as long as you have marble floors?!

I challenge you poster ab111. You spend a decade in a prison of your choice other than federal prisons here in the U.S., I will build you a 3 bedroom home with Italian marble floors and will let you live there free for the rest of your life; but sorry you cannot go outside the house. Do we have a deal?

By the way, you get to keep the salary the IRI pays you to post nonsense on internet sites.

Baran - I now understand...

...your perspective clearer than before. Thank you.

scb's response is the essence of how Baha'is view Iran.  If I am not mistaken you have used the "social sacrifice" made by the Baha'is of Iran as an example of a "compromise on the freedom of expression".  I can see how you have arrived at this conclusion.

Much of what we have exchanged has been about perspective and how it can influence perception. Can we agree that the narrower the perspective the more likely it is that our perception will be incomplete and likely to be inaccurate?  Also, is it not possible for us to be more influenced by the practice of faith vs. the principles of faith?

When you see individuals practice the principles of Faith, you consider them as compromising their individual freedoms and hence limit their freedom of expression.  Is this not what you are saying?

If you were told by your doctor that eating too many sweets and not exercising enough, will lead to diabetes which over time will lead to blindness, amputation of limbs, and more importantly cardiac disease, would you consider the advice to exercise and cut back on sweets? Would you consider this advice a compromise on your freedoms?  And finally, would your friend's assessment of the doctor's advice as a compromise on your freedoms be valid?

Now allow me to use one more scenario to illustrate this point further.  Society through its legislature has determined that all children are not only entitled to an education but also have an obligation to attend school to receive it.  Parents are responsible to make sure that their children are enrolled and attending school. Are the individual freedoms of the parents and children compromised in this case?

In the first instance you are facing an individual choice with the consequence of non-compliance first impacting you and second the society in terms of healthcare costs.

In the second instance, there is a responsibility towards a minor which the state imposes its will on the parents, first because of its social impact if the child does not receive an education and second the impact on the child in not being able to reach its potential in society.

In both instances, I am assured of the fact that you recognize the benefits even though in the first instance it is an advice and in the second instance it is the law.

Freedom of expression is just one aspect of individual freedoms.  So a context for it needs to be defined.   When I say, "I am a Baha'i and I believe that (blank)", then the association is a representation of a Baha'i principle.  There is never any harm done in such an exchange if the exchange is sincere and not hostile.  As you and I have this exchange, ab111, is reading this exchange and is compelled to interject with a comment that he has cut and paste numerous times on several blogs simply to discredit and confuse, just as if someone asked you, in front of a crowd "how often do you beat your wife?"  The intent has been fulfilled with this question.  So exchanges on these blogs are never between two people, but a crowd of by-standers, many of whom in this case have malicious intent.  Hence the very original objection that you directed at me.

Being a Baha'i is a choice that one makes in recognizing the manifestation of God and abiding by its principles.  There is no compulsion in making this choice and no consequence in reversing this choice.  Also, in this Faith, no one is to judge the actions and statements of others and in anyway ascertain or rate anyone's faith.  This is a principle and any deviation from it that you may have noted is contrary to the teachings of this Faith. While Baha'is strive to exemplify the principles of the Faith, we do fall short and must arise and try again. This is a life long commitment, and not a compromise in individual freedoms or freedom of expression.  It is a choice that is being made willingly, individually, each day, under various conditions and circumstances.

The power of association is also very strong.  I have written 4 blogs on on contemporary trends and issues in Iranian society and in all instances, the comments that have followed have included attacks on the Baha'i Faith by the very same bystanders.

So long as we agree that our perception is defined by our perspective, we can regard our perceptions as subject to change as our perspective broadens.

Alborz

These doors shall be opened

In contemplation of the subject of Baha'u'llah's imprisonment, the following are some quotations from Baha'i books on the subject.

En route to the maximum-security penal colony of 'Akka, Baha'u'llah- sentenced to life without appeal or parole- confidently promised that He would leave prison, pitch His tent on Mount Carmel and transform His sufferings into 'the outpourings of a supreme mercy'. Against all odds, and through circumstances so miraculous as to defy belief, He did just that. (195:3)

..the ink was scarcely dry on His sentence when Baha'u'llah assured His royal captors that He, not they, would ultimately prevail.

Soon after arriving in 'Akka in 1868 He wrote to Nasiri'd- Din Shah: 'No doubt is there whatever that these tribulations will be followed by the outpouring of a supreme mercy, and these dire adversities be succeeded by an overflowing prosperity' (PDC 42) During the darkest days of His imprisonment He wrote to His friends: 'Fear not. These doors shall be opened. My tent shall be pitched on Mount Carmel, and the utmost joy shall be realized' (AB 39). (196:1)

Baha'u'llah's confinement was enforced with strict severity for many years and He endured indescribable agony. Little by little, however, His shackles began to crumble. Baha'u'llah's innocence and integrity slowly were recognized by the region's entire population, once fiercly antagonistic; the benevolent spirit of His teachings gradually won the admiration of high and low alike.. (196:2)

Baha'u'llah spent His remaining years in the countryside, whose beauty He had always loved, devoting His time to His writing and the education of His followers. 'The rulers of Palestine', says 'Abdul- Baha, 'envied His influence and power. Governors and Mutisarrifs, generals and local officials, would humbly request the honour of attaining His presence - a request to which He seldom acceded' (GPB 193). (197:1)

The Sun Has Risen Again

Simply put, Baha'is believe Baha'u'llah to be:

The Imam Zaman, Lord of the Age, the Qaim, He Whom God Shall Make Manifest, the Prince of Peace, The Promised one, The Messiah Who appeared before humanity and was treated like a prisoner, deprived of His hereditary property, denied comfort while constantly threatened and harrassed or placed in harm's way, never to exercise the liberty that was His absolute due.

Yet He consented to this treatment and forgave humanity, revealing a Book that hold a Design for for a Golden Age.

Isn't it time that we had this hope?

Didn't Muslims made a similar mistake concerning Imam Husayn?

Didn't the Pharisees deride Jesus?

Didn't Pharaoh laugh at Moses?

So it is with our age and those who deride the Baha'i Faith authored by Baha'u'llah. , bringing light to a suffering world.

Iranian view oh Bahais

Bahaullah's 40 years of imprisonment

I do not understand why our Bahai friends insist that Bahaullah was imprisoned for forty years. First two years the Ottomans gave Him and His family residence in a military base. Following that he rented a house with three rooms and and a large hall and garden where they resided for three years. Once the financial subsidy from His followers increased, He bought the Palace of Bahji where after renovation the entire family resided. Visitors who met Him have marveled at the beauty of the marbled mosaic floor. During all these years He and His family were free to go out for their daily needs and receive visitors that are well documented and reported. He was interred in the precincts of the same mansion. Living in a mansion with all due deference by the Ottomans contradicts the state of imprisonment.
Trying to change the facts and presenting them in a manner to generate sympathy raises doubt in the minds of researchers as well as the followers about the acuracy of other writings .

No "Better Pasture!"

Baran,

In response to your comment:
"It seems that the bahai's social teaching put a greater emphasis on the cause, than the value of individual. You can contrast that with the Jewish's long history of moving around, to better pastures."

Note that Baha'is, including Iranian Baha'is, move around with EXTREME alacrity. We see many Friends visiting the U.S. from Iran and vice versa. Every Baha'i community in the US has Iranian members, but also Baha'is from Ethiopia, India, Colombia, China and Europe. Also, because Baha'is move around so much, they frequently inter-marry.

Baha'is believe passionately that the most important social value is allegiance to the world . . .to the "nation" of humanity. In other words, there is no "better pasture!" We proudly refers to ourselves as "world citizens" while obeying the laws of the land where we reside, even when the laws are not favorable to us.

Governments alter with time,but the world in its oneness is . . . universal. True, Baha'is who live in Iran are persecuted, but they do not sit in darkened rooms bemoaning their fate, not even when they are imprisoned. No! They remain active and involved.

Iranian Baha'is love their homeland to the extreme and choose to live there because of its beauty and sanctity as the cradle of their Faith. This is a undefeatable affection, this is real love! The Baha'is of Iran will not pack up . . . and go elsewhere.

All Baha'is have high hopes for the future of Iran. Baha'u'llah speaks to a glorious outcome in the land of His birth. To believe this means someone must stay to nurture this hope, even when it means a prison sentence.

Progressive developments in society have always been rooted in sacrifice. Baha'u'llah, Who was Himself an imprisoned exile never fled from His enemies.

He said this. . .

"Let nothing grieve thee, O Land of Ta (Tehran)for God hath chosen thee to be the source of joy to all mankind.

He shall, if it be His Will, bless thy throne with one who will rule with justice, who will gather together the flock of God which the wolves have scattered."

alborz

Thanks for your response.

Similarly reading blogs on any Faith, does not qualify anyone to pass such sweeping judgements on the spiritual and social teachings of that Faith.

I believe an integral part of a progressive, democratic society is freedom of expression, without fear of any sort. I also strongly believe in individuality, which goes hand in hand with freedom of expression. The fact that I know little about other aspects of the bahai faith, such as personal, interpesonal, social, spiritual, etc, becomes a mute point, if there is one overriding, essential component that I am highly conflicted with. Having said that, please allow me to elaborate further.

I feel that in the bahai religion, individuality is sacrificed for the greater cause. In any society, there are degrees of individuality, and most people are mindful to a variety of levels to their social obligations as well. However, I get the impression that in the bahai faith, this balance is off.

For example, let's examine the bahai population in Iran. They have been going through all sorts of persecution and abuse, both legally and culturally, yet somehow a lot of them are staying behind. It seems that the bahai's social teaching put a greater emphasis on the cause, than the value of individual. You can contrast that with the Jewish's long history of moving around, to better pastures.

Eventhough it takes courage, and might be regarded as admirable, I personally do not believe at this level of social sacrifice. It is faith to the believers, but it might be perceived quite differently by others.

With the same token, it seems other aspects of freedom of expression are compromised for the greater cause,such as publishing a book about bahai faith, blogging, etc. So I hope you understand where my some of my impressions are coming from.

Baran

I hope that my comments have not offended you.

I would like to hear your opinion on the subjects raised.

Ramin

Fazael wa manaqeb of BAHA'OOO'LA

M. Abul Karim writes: "God appeared in the Bab as the Holy Ghost, in Baha as the Father, in Abbas as His Son." Mrs. Grundy says: "Within Abdul Baha is the inexhaustible fountain of knowledge." Remey says: "Through Abdul Baha and through him only can believers receive the spiritual power and sustenance necessary for their growth." Among Abbas's titles are the "Greatest Branch of God," the "Mystery of God."

These are a few of the salient points of the "new revelation."

Baha'u'llah is declared to be superior in his personality, in his divine knowledge, in his power of revealing. In what has already been quoted, this is evident. The great cycle which began in Adam is said to have reached its culmination in Baha'U'llah. "The Manifestations are ended by the appearance of this, which is the greatest of all Manifestations," which "manifests itself only once in 500,000 years." "He is exalted above all those who are upon earth and in the heaven." Abdul Baha says: "Consider the time of Jesus. This is greater than that for as much as it is the calling of the Lord of Hosts." "All the great prophets were perfect mirrors of God -- manifestations of the 'Primal Will of God -- and sinless, but in Baha in some sense the Divine Essence is manifested." Phelps says: "He is greater than his predecessors." "Baha," says Kheiralla, "is the Everlasting Father, who spoke in Abraham, Moses, and Jesus Christ, who were His ministers, and at these latter days He came Himself in the flesh to judge the quick and the dead." Abbas said to Mrs. Grundy: "Baha is the consummation of all degrees. He is the Revelation of all truth and light." "Christ is the vine, Baha is the husbandman--the Lord of the vineyard." A poem says of Baha:

By His life-fostering lip live a hundred such as Jesus;

By the Sinai of His aspect sit a thousand such as Moses;

Thou, on the night of ascent, didst entertain the prophet as Thy guest.

The Temple of God's glory is none other than Baha;

If one seeks God, let him seek Him in Baha.

Thou art the King of the Realm of the everlasting,

Thou art the Manifestation of the essence of the Lord of Glory,

The Creator of Creation.

کس نزند بر درخت بی بر سنگ

حضرت بها‌الله به اهل بها میفرمایند:

"...شما را بادب وصيّت مينمايم و اوست در مقام اوّل سيّد اخلاق طوبی از برای نفسی که بنور ادب منوّر و بطراز راستی مزيّن گشت دارای ادب دارای مقام بزرگست اميد آنکه اين مظلوم و کلّ به آن فائز و به آن متمسّک و به آن متشبّث و به آن ناظر باشيم اينست حکم محکم که از قلم اسم اعظم جاری و نازل گشته." 

قضاوت با شماست!

البرز

Baran - We may be reaching an understanding !

Q1 -At what stage of this journey of knowlege acquirement, knowing well there is no end, do you let someone form an opinion?

Answer: It all depends on the subject matter.  Your reading of healthcare blogs, while it may be entertaining, will not qualify you to practice medicine. Similarly reading blogs on any Faith, does not qualify anyone to pass such sweeping judgements on the spiritual and social teachings of that Faith. Despite the attacks that are routinelyl leveled against Islam, Baha'is respect the divine origin of Islam.  Why?  Because we understand its spiritual and social teachings in the context of the time in which they were revealed. So we don't form opinions or judgements based on the profanity that is leveled against Islam at every turn, most notably by those that were born into it.

Q2-What if someone came along and questioned your own abilities?

Answer: I welcome it and if you had limited your criticism and to me, I would have humbly considered them and regarded them as an opportunity for my growth and development.  If you don't believe me, try directing your comments at me and remove the venom that is directed elsewhere, and I will listen and consider them.  I will also thank you.

Q3-What are the standards and who sets them?

Answer: I know that I won't be setting the standard for you nor do I think anyone else should.  In an exchange such as this, our comments is the only means by which we communicate and therefore we can only rely on the words and the tone that they set.  My responses to you have been entirely in response to your diatribe.  Numerous people, with very tangible issues have expressed their views with a tone that has solicited sincere responses. Some have been satisfactory to them, some have not.  But the exchange has remained respectful.  As I said to you earlier, agreement is not always possible, but understanding is possible in most instances.

Finally, one of the reasons I have continued to engage with you is that I sense a sincerity in your tone that I have come to respect.  I completely understand and empathize with every sentiment that you have expressed based on what I can only surmise to be the underlying reasons for your general view on religion.  While your diatribe has been directed at the Baha'i Faith and me as a Baha'i, I am still capable of relating to you. This is after all a human ability that I hope to never lose. Also, I am not a fundamentalist, because I have no fear of questions nor of the answers that they may lead to.

I am glad that we have reached the point in this exchange where there are no attacks but rather an exchange on topics.

As for the "edit" to my comment, please note the time on the comment.  I recognized that what I had written was not what I had meant to say and so I changed it.  However, I made this change before your comment was posted. It was not in response to it.  So as you can see, I do question what I have written and this is why when I told you that my first comment to David was not meant to be a question of his Faith, it is because I read and re-read what I write multiple times and examine whether it conveys what I mean to say.   Clearly it was still taken differently, and I now can also appreciate why!

Best,

Alborz

anonymous IRANIAN you sound familiar bro?????

you say would bahais let anti bahai propaganda in Iran??
where have you been in the last 160 years bro??
isn't it what happening in Iran?
saaateh khab baradar???

never reason with bahayees.. it is useless

i cannot believe people are taking a rational approach to religion, commenting and questioning. Baba, get real you folks, you cannot reason with a cultish mentality.

they are bunch of hippi dippies!

Power possessed is power exercised ...

"A fundamental principle of the Faith is that no believer can have any contact or association with a believer who has been deemed by the Head of the Faith to break the Covenant, whether by correspondence, telephone, or in person. Strict adherence to this rule is obligatory."
- National Spiritual Assembly of the Baha'is

Would the Bahais allow "non believers" in Iran (or elsewhere in their hoped for global dominion) to hold assemblies, educate, and propagate distinctly anti-bahai thoughts?

What is the position of the Bahais on the use of violence in previous encounters between Semitic religious figure heads and groups and non believers in the said Semitic god?

How should any rational human being in the 21st century A.D. (LOL) view the mystical joojoo of a 19 "month" calendar?

Recognize your enemies as your friends . . .

"Recognize your enemies as your friends and consider those who wish you evil as the wishers of good. You must not see evil as evil and then compromise with your opinion, for to treat in a smooth, kindly way one whom you consider evil or an enemy is hypocrisy and this is not worthy nor allowable.

No! You must consider your enemies as your friends, look upon your evil-wishers as your well-wishers and treat them accordingly.

Act in such a way that your heart may be free from hatred. Let not your heart be offended with any one. If some one commits an error and wrong towards you, you must instantly forgive him. Do not complain of others.

Refrain from reprimanding them and if you wish to give admonition or advice let it be offered in such a way that it will not burden the heart of the hearer. Turn all your thoughts towards bringing joy to hearts.

Beware! Beware! Lest ye offend any heart. Assist the world of humanity as much as possible. Be the source of consolation to every sad one, assist every weak one, be helpful to every indigent one, be the cause of glorification to every lowly one and shelter those who are overshadowed with fear.

In brief, let each of you be as a lamp shining forth with the virtues of the world of humanity. Be trustworthy, sincere, affectionate and replete with chastity. Be illumined, be spiritual, be divine, be glorious, be quickened of God.

Be a Bahá'í."

- 'Abdu'l-Bahá: Promulgation of Universal Peace, Page: 452

The above represents the code of conduct for those who wish to be true to the name "Baha'i." This is why Alborz, Adib and others are so patiently logical even when it seems to have no effect upon their attackers.

Why are we so scared of the word" Bahai"?

After reading the comments in this blog I realized that again  one trend is happening  and it  made me to ask " why majority of the comments are anonymous? "

I am not going into details about multiple postings!!! but the fact is that when it comes to have an opinion about Bahai faith majority of Iranians are uncomfortable to even post with their main avatar!! I say main since there could be many !!!

This is what is wrong with US, and I mean all of us Iranians.

Why can't we be honest and talk about our opinion???

Could it be that deep down  we have strong ,deep rooted prejudice about Bahai faith , even though , we hit our chest and pretend to be secular??

I have said this before , but will say it again, I had a communist friend in my other life and she used to tell me, Tahirih, all religions are false and man made to oppress masses, but if I have to choose one I would choose Islam?? lets see why she would think that way? was it because of her investigation of truth or simply following her family's belief?

I think it is time in our process of maturity as a nation to start cleaning our old dusty , preconceived notions of things that has been brainwashed into us by years of propaganda , and investigate for ourselves , if you do not find it truthful , at least it would be your opinion not the opinion of a clergy.

Tahirih

baran, take a chill pill

As a neutral observer who's been following this discussion (and I’m really not interested in who is right or wrong here, I just want to learn a bit more on the subject matter), I haven't seen anyone stopping you or even suggesting that you should not form an opinion. Neither has anyone said you are not entitled to your own view.

Regardless of the validity of your argument (or lack of it), you come across as very defensive and seem to take exception to merely being asked questions as to the basis of your opinions and conclusions.

If anyone is being “arbitrary” in making judgements and deciding “the standards” by which people should conduct discussions, it’s YOU.

Anyway, I’ve read enough to have formed my own opinion that you at least don’t seem to know what you are talking about on this topic.

do bahais have special psychic powers

Unless babak-sd is empowered with divine powers, how does he know some of these posters are the same? The same thing can be said about anonymous bahaei posters! hehe!

alborz : Mr edit!

So you believe that I should not form an opinion about your religion, since I know little about it. To support your argument, you try to apply standards of scientific research, to a concept that is based on faith (tales) and highly subjective. Not to mention that I am only expressing my personal opinions on this matter, and should not be held up to the same standards as a researcher.

Gaining knowledge is a continuous & incremental process, so at what stage do you determine if one can formulate an opinion or not? What are the standards and who sets them? What if someone came along and questioned your own abilities? At what stage of this journey of knowlege acquirement, knowing well there is no end, do you let someone form an opinion? It seems that you are arbitarily setting your own standards based on personal feelings, and not basing it on anything methodical or even applicable.

PS. You misquoted me again - this time verbatim! Don't be so hasty !

Really?! Perhaps if you could be good enough to not edit your post like a million times while it is already publicly posted!

Logic, decorum, respect wasted on some posters

Dear Ramin, Alborz and Adib,

While I have to thank you for the time you put in to respond to disgusting assertions by some of the posters on this site, I must tell you that logic, decorum and respect is wasted on these individuals.

There is a clear pattern of attacks whenever anything regarding the Bahai faith is posted on any site on the internet visted by Iranians and Muslims. Tens and maybe hundreds of individuals from Iran, Pakistan and some Arabic countries with Shiet population are paid by the IRI to disseminate misinformation and counter anything even remotely positive or informational about Bahais.

I believe the information you share on this site is read and appreciated by open minded readers. However, posters such as Baran, JAC etc who are some times the same people with various poster names are better dealt with in the way they understand. Sort of like how the IRI treats people in Iran.

Baran3

Finally you said:

"All religions are corruptable, and people's nature are the same no matter what religion they adhere to."

I agree with you, however I will change religions with ideologies. Remember Mao, Pol Pot.

and the other comment:

"I don't believe in concept of religions, or any special human being with powers of getting messages from any god, or manifestation of god, or whatever."

You are of course free to believe in whatever you like, but be under no delusion that yours is not a belief based on faith, like any other ideology.

and finally:

"I don't believe any aspect of the legal system should be based on religious laws. It should be legislated by the people who are living it, and not a man from centuries past."

What happens when people who are living in a society decide to make laws that deprive others of their most precious things, like their lives and families?
Again think of our history, Hitler, Stalin, Mao..., they achieved their deeds legally, by laws legislated by the people. Are you happy with that outcome? what is the standard?

Ramin

Baran2

The two particular questions you have asked I will answer briefly, it is my own opinion, it has not been guided and I find it satisfactory, it does not have to be for you.

Firstly the difficult question of why there are no women on the House of Justice. We Know from writings of Baha'u'llah that this does not reflect inequality of men and women, rather the different roles that they have. there are several laws that differentiate between men and women, such as right to education, which gives the female child the advantage. ( BTW this highly enlightened law not only resulted in 100% literacy rates amongst Baha'i women in Iran by 1960s, it is also the most humane way of population control, shown around world in numerous studies. something we desperately need in our over populated planet.)
Abdul-baha said the reason for this law will be revealed in due course and it will be more obvious than mid-day sun. So I have accept this by faith, and after all it is a religious faith.

And before you rush ahead and accuse me of blind faith, may I remind you that atheism put a lot of faith in science to explain a lot of things in the future, such as meaning of life!

Also I like to point out at all administrative levels of the faith, women have served and are serving, most are highly educated and intelligent and aware of this law. But it has not stop them from service and even sacrificing their lives in recent years. The reason is that status of women in the Faith is either equal to men or in more traditional societies such as middle east or India, many social and economic projects of the faith is directed towards achieving this aim.

As to your question with regards to law of inheritance.
the answer is very simple.
every Baha'i must have a will and can divide his/her inheritance in what ever way he/she wishes.
the Laws in Book of Aqdas refer to people who do not have a will.
The different inheritance also reflect the different role that each person plays in family and society. You may be aware that a percentage goes to the teacher (education System), which once again highlights the importance of secular education in the Baha'i faith.

So you see if you ask questions, answers will be given. No Baha'i is afraid of reasonable questions, there is nobody censoring what I say or guiding it, simply my understanding of things which may be different from other Baha'is.

Ramin

Baran

"To say that we should not enjoy this spring because there will be a winter is not very smart."
This is a statement of fact, read it again, unless you believe we should not enjoy this spring because there will be a winter, the statement does not apply to you. So take it easy it is not an insult.

But let me point to you some your comments you have made directly to me and other Baha'is in this link.I hope you have enough justice in your own being to be able to judge who is being rude.

"a decaying corpse." referring to the faith
"You guys are so intolerant and paranoid."
"shows your lack of tolerance"
"It is repulsive" referring to the laws of the faith
"Hypocrisy galare!"

it should read galore,and I think you know well who it refers to!

Then you come up with this gem:
"I don't believe I know the bahai ideology enough, to have formulated a general opinion of it ."
How can you call it "a decaying corpse" then?

so once again I ask you to stay within the bounds of courtesy if you want this discussion to continue.

BTW, atheism is a form of religious belief, based on assumptions and faith, and I will not recall all the atrocities committed by the atheist in past 100 years and I certainly won't blame you for them!

I will answer your specific questions next.

Ramin

Today's news

سرانجام پس از يك قرن سكوت درباره ماهيت مذهب خودساخته بهائيت، مركز مطالعات مذهبي مصر رسما اعلام كرد اين مذهب هيچ ارتباطي با دين اسلام و يا دیگر اديان الهي ندارد و وابستگي كامل به صهيونيزم جهاني دارد.

به گزارش «القدس العربي»، مركز مطالعاتی یاد شده وابسته به الازهر بوده و تاکنون پژوهش‌های متعددی در این زمینه انجام داده است.

بنا بر این گزارش، شيخ محمد سيد الطنطاوي، رئيس الازهر نيز اظهار داشت: پيروان اين دين خودساخته، گمراه بوده و به هيچ ديني ايمان ندارند و در كشورهاي جهان و به ويژه سرزمين‌هاي اسلامي و عربي سرچشمه فساد، تخريب و رذالت هستند.

سال گذشته، گروهي از بهائيان مصر درخواست دريافت كارت شناسايي هویتی از دولت قاهره داشتند كه در آن دين آنها به رسميت شناخته شده و در كارت شناسايي قيد شود كه دولت مصر، تنها با صدور كارت موافقت كرد و از آوردن مذهب آنها در اين كارت جلوگیری کرد.

گفتنی است، مركز بهائيان جهان در «حيفا»، واقع در اسرائيل بوده و قبله اعظم اين گروه خودساخته نیز «عکا»ست.

Baran, Ph.D !

Since when has anyone been able to rate their own knowledge of anything independently.  Even students in school don't get to grade themselves!

To make matters worse, you go on to say that you form opinions based on experience. While that might be fine for choosing a restaurant, I hope that you don't choose to make a medical diagnosis based on experience, unless you are an M.D.

If a scientist makes a conclusion, they publish their conclusions and then others comment on it or repeat the experiments and it is through a cycle of exchanges that their conclusion is either validated or invalidated. They also commit themselves to keeping the science pure and free from bias of any type.

Are you with me? I hope so.  Now apply this to yourself.

As for David, have you validated your assertion that he has been scared off from writing again?  Have you asked him?  Honestly, it is this style of diatribe that discredits your assertions in other areas also.  Diatribe such as yours does not deserve any other tone than this.  Was it not you who feebly rationalized your rudeness in another comment?

Decorum prevents me to use colorful language in describing how full of yourself you are and how much in need being deflated.

Alborz

PS. You misquoted me again - this time verbatim!  Don't be so hasty !