Misc

Matter of one week

It would take the USN about a week to completey incapacitate the IRGC/N.  they have destroyers and a few old diesel subs, helicopters, fighter jets, cargo planes, etc. etc. etc, all decades old, most missing parts and used as scrap.  From my days at Boeing I learned quite a lot about how poorly equipped and how desperate the iranian armed forces including the IRGC are, for them to keep contacting Boeing for parts.  So folks dont fall for false propoganda, the Iranian armed forces are only one week away from being completely destryoed by the mighty US/Israel forces, should (when) they decide to sideline it.

IranMilitaryForum states:

Last time I checked you did not have similar proposals for the US to stop wasting money in Iraq and Afghanestan while there are eight million out of jobs right here!

 What a stupid statement. Didn't the US create a stimulus package over $800 billion, and is working a job stimulus package along with running two wars.  US has the money. 

 So it's not really as simple as leaving Iraq/War afghanistan = job creation.  Besides, wars create jobs.  I don't even think you're from the US when you make such a silly statement.

Sargord

Congratulations IRIN and Rear Admiral Habibollah Sayyari.

Indeed! 

Miko

How about spending some of the money building new roads and highways so
we can save 30,000+ lives a  year.

Last time I checked you did not have similar proposals for the US to stop wasting money in Iraq and Afghanestan while there are eight million out of jobs right here!

Like some have said, this destroyer

will be useless compared to the more modern destroyers.  This is mostly for posturing and propanda.  Yes, IRI is great at reverse engineering decades old technology.  We get it.

 The IRI Navy's real threat and power comes from swarm of small attack vessels.   The US already played out such a scenario in Iran's favor.

No Fear

Again,  they are most likely repaired and upgraded sabalan class
distroyers from the 90s. All the missile and torpedo launchers on that
distroyer are Iranian made. So are many of the radar systems.The engine
and other mechanical parts, most likely repaired or imported.

Though most od your assertions are correct,however, Jamaran was built from scratch. In fact, very little of its systems and sub systems are similar to Alvand class of which the strural was copied from.  This ship is truely a leap for Iranian Naval technologies.

Also, yes, you arecorrect! The sister ship is already under construction @ Bandar Anzali on Caspian sea!

Finally, Iran does copy or reverse engineer a good number of its weapon systems. However, just because they look alike their originals it does not mean they are the same systems. Iran saves a huge amount on RD to reverse engineer the main structure of Alavand class for Jamaran. That is simply brilliant!

Sanctions do produce

Sanctions do produce unintended consequences. Even though they contribute to lengthy delays and less than state-of-the art, self-sufficiency can be established.

As a means and showcase of self-sufficiency, the new boat is kind of neat. The overall design is, in many ways,  an upgrade of the Vosper type. And it comes armed with other indigenously produced projects, such as the Fajr-27 cannon, Fath-40 cannon and Noor AShM. Even elements of its sensor and electronics suite are Iranian built.

While the IRGC/N has a more viable naval doctrine for the PG, IRIN's blue water role has regained some leverage following its Arabian Sea/Indian Ocean operations, for which the Jamaran is suited. 

Congratulations IRIN and Rear Admiral Habibollah Sayyari. 

VPK

That is where IRR has failed. In fact they did whatever possible to ruin
the Iranian nation. So sure I accept they built a ship. How advanced it
is: I don't know. But it does not matter. They destroyed a lot more
than built. This is nothing to brag of.

Let's admit, yur etenal hate will never let you ever  admit any progress, no matter how complex, made by Iran. As simple as that!

A suggestion, what don't you get off your comfortable chair and tashrif bebarid to Iran to put together a simple cardboard box just to realize talking is cheap and working is hard! especially in Iran!

Bravo Iran and Iranians who on daily basis defy the impossibilities with ingeneous technical abilities! ;-))

Fair

Following your reasoning then we should also suspend the car industry in Iran because we cannot compete with the likes of BMW and Mercedes in terms of technology, quality, ergonomics and luxury or because we cannot compete with Ferrari and Lamborgini in terms of price, exclusivity or competition record. (oh what's the use of building a Samand? The Ferari is gonna leave it in the dust!)

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_Iran

I guess we should just concentrate on domestic entertainment industry and domestic banking system so that we can buy everything we want so that next time there are unilateral sanctions we even suffer more. Heck let's even outsource our cooking. Or we could import cheap labour and teach them to cook Persian food!

mahmoudg, Are you forced

mahmoudg,

Are you forced to comment, especially when you have little or no knowledge about the subject in discussion?

That helo is not huey rather Bell 212 designed for Naval operations?

Who gave you the idea that helicopters are so easy to build? In fact what do yo know about helicopter design? Israel with all its military technology imports helicopters from the US. But eat your heart out, Iran does design and manufacture helicopters namely Shahed 278 and Shahed 285. Iran also has the capability to upgrade and reverse engineer Bell Huey (Bell 205), Bell 214 (Isfahan), Bell 212, Cobra attack helicopters and finally bell ranger.

For your information, Iran has a fleet of about 800 helicoters of mostely US made. Iran currently maitains all its helicopters without any assistance from the manufacturers on its own.

..........and that is nothing but pride for Iranian ingenuity!!! ;-))

Good experience but useless ship

Domestic abilities improving is always a good thing, no matter who is in power.

But we are far from being a country which can rely on itself for its heavy weapons needs.  It is a joke to call such boat a destroyer, the Vosper class that it is copied from is only 1500 tons and is a frigate built in 1968.  In a real conflict, this boat would just be a sitting duck and target practice for any operational navy in the region.  The USN would not even to get involved, most of the GCC countries could sink it without much opposition, as it would have no air cover, has zero stealth capabilities, and is over 40 year old technology.

If Iran actually wants to be a relevant power in the Persian Gulf, it needs to modernize its military instead of putting a bunch of guards in a bunch of fiberglass boats.

Also, anybody who says Iran build helicopters (other than a handful of prototypes and testbeds which are modifications of existing helicopters) is completely misinformed.  You saw in Bam earthquake when 10's of thousands of people died because of lack of access to the area, there were virtually no examples of Iranian helicopters or the American ones that they were copied from visible anywhere.  All you could see were actually Russian made Mil helicopters from the Red Crescent or other organizations.

So noise and propaganda aside, we are still decades away from being able to make a military plane or ship or helicopter of any use domestically.  In the meantime, we rely on thieves like Russia and China who take our money and give us junk (or just don't give us anything at all in the case of Russia) because we didn't like the relationship the Shah had with the US.  Where he paid the same price that NATO country paid and got the best weapons and technology in the world.  That was unacceptable, so we went to the current arrangement.

Good luck.

-Fair 

What is a ship useful for

Even if it is based on reverse engineering
existing destroyers and improving them based on new technologies and design trends it is still good enough.

I grant you it is an accomplishment. But what is it good enough for? 

• It is good against all the Arab states.
• It is a good moral builder
• It helps build expertise. The good news is that theknowledge will stay after IRI is gone!

But against the US or Nato it is useless and will just get sunk. I am not saying this to  minimize the work. Obviously a lot of hard work went into it. However one ship will not stand against torpedoes and anti ship missiles.

Miko,

It seems like they are building new highways:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highways_in_Iran

Maybe they should pay better attention to building safer highways and also working on people's driving mentality. There is an oft-cited premise in social sciences that once most people's material conditions improve then their culture improves as well. Iranians still have a bumpy road ahead when it comes to infrastructure (i.e. public good). Hopefully the situation improves.

I personally wouldn't want to build an expensive house in a gang-infested, run-down poor neighbourhood if I don't have the means to properly protect it! It's a matter of setting priorities.

Gosh-Darn, someone forgot to steal d money before they built it?

VF does not look happy that this money got away from him!

The destroyer appears to be 19old technology, like the three destroyers that Iran had ordered in 1970's and never delivered because of the stupidity of a bunch of Islamic students who took over the US embassy.  But I agree that:

* This destroyer is a big target when it comes to tangling with the modern naval warfare.  But, it will dominate the speed-boats, though.

* Iran could have used the money for improvement of the lives of the ??? Iranians

BTW, did anyone notice that there were not "too much" reesh-o-pashm on the Navy officers?  Gooooooo Navy. 

How about building new roads

Reverse Engineering?

Even if it is based on reverse engineering existing destroyers and improving them based on new technologies and design trends it is still good enough.

Abarmard,

Good on IRGC engineers if they have fully pulled off this task all by themselves. However, there are striking similarities between Sabaln class and this frigate. Below is a link with pictures of both. see for yourself.

//www.irandefence.net/showthread.php?t=56219

No Fear

This was made from scratch. Shabakeye Khabar showed the entire process.

Unlikely they were built from scratch.

Some are calling it the first of two of Mowj Frigates that Iran is building. I know for sure that a second one is on the way.

However, this frigate is very similar to the sabalan class distroyer which iran currently has 3 of them. It used to be 4, which we lost one and two were not operational after the preying mantis operation.

Since conventional naval warfare does not fit in Iran's asymmetrical naval doctorine, the making of these distroyers from scratch can not be justified strategically or economically. It makes no sense to invest in an expensive project ( Whether Iran or US ) , just to have it blown apart by a very fast torpedo ( ex. Silk worm ) or a Cruise missile ( Noor ). Both Iran and US have enough munition at their disposal to seriously harm each others naval forces in the persian gulf. However, the only reason the existance of such distroyers are justified for Iran, would be for long distance patroling off the coast of Somalia or to track and trace submarines in the Oman gulf.

Again,  they are most likely repaired and upgraded sabalan class distroyers from the 90s. All the missile and torpedo launchers on that distroyer are Iranian made. So are many of the radar systems.The engine and other mechanical parts, most likely repaired or imported.

Charand Destroyer

Too bad all of those journalist and reporters who could have been writing about this big event DECIDED to go to jail or flee Iran. Lets see some reports on the people who actually built this Boat like ship yard workers,programmers, welders and so on, that’s how people believe where it was made. All I see the dictator and all of his watchdogs.

 No Champaign because of embargo.

I am sure the average Iranian with 25-30% inflation on his lap

apprecites having this warship. What do you expect from a mentality that believes the elimination of those who disagree with you is the way forward?

Building weapons - copies of WWII era machinery, I must add - is nothing to boast about. Besides, the Islamic regime's obsession with weapons and arsenal is to dominate the region and sustain its power; a bad thing for true iranians and iran lovers.

The day that the Islamic regime can foster a tolerant, just, free and forward thinking society is the day that we can declair our motherland the perfect and independent place they would have you believe it is today.

We all know that ain't heppening.

____________

IRAN FIRST

____________

Damn if they do, damn if they don't

Some folks hate for IRI lead them to condemn any thing that is achieved by Iranians. Even if what they make is basic and half broken, don't think it is at least a start and an effort. Has every thing that West built so far was so perfect at day one?

Just remember that what ever that is achieved is 90% Iranian and maybe 10% or less IRI, so when you condemn or mock it, you mock the affort of the majority.

Mehrdad

Step by step... Believe in yourselves!

Or maybe two steps forward, one step backward and again one step forward..... 

There are technological progresses. Whether the indigenous component of that progress is as significant as they claim is a different story. Some of it is the result of technology transfer. In the process of becoming a technologically progressive country nobody starts completely from scratch. We have to shed the self-defeatist attitude and to stop pandering to the evil wishes of those who would like to see Iran as an only carpet-weaving country.

As the English proverb says: "Power comes out of the barrel of the gun". Those who wield the biggest guns rule and take what is legitimately yours. So we need an army of competent engineers to close the technological gap.

Anyway, I like the imagery starting with the two buglers. Reminds me of Persepolis buglers from the 2500 years anniversay celebrations of Persian Empire in 1971.

LONG LIVE IRAN!

YES WE CAN!

to christen the destroyer

and  you noticed since they can not use a bottle of chamagne to christen the destroyer, they used a bottle of non alcoholic beer (Ma-O-Shaeer) to bless the monster and set it free. Let's just hope that its engine is not made by the British Hillman.

Only one made

They better keep it in some where safe, jut bring out when they want to fool somebody. In todays Iran every thing is advance since you can buy it in cash 

Building a ship

Is possible when all the resources of a nation at 50 - 150 $ a barrel are put to use. People have been building ships for centuries. Heck Khashayar Shah sent a huge navy to Greece! How about building a society with freedom and happiness.

That is where IRR has failed. In fact they did whatever possible to ruin the Iranian nation. So sure I accept they built a ship. How advanced it is: I don't know. But it does not matter. They destroyed a lot more than built. This is nothing to brag of.

mahmoudg

Iran does build Baalgard. This was build from scratch, don't make up things when you don't know, if you like to be perceived as credible.

I actually find this amazing. The taks of such project is huge, I know for a fact. Of course the cost was not mentioned, which can be an important factor.

We already had a "Jamaran Destroyer" called Khomeini

Iran already had a so called "Jamaran Destoryer".

Wasn't Ayatollah Ruhollah Khoemini such destroyer who resided in Jamaran, introduced and installed in Iran by the joint British-US alliance as part of Islamization of West Asia in 1979 and to "destroy" Iran?

Nothing new here except they put a new body on a simple cargo freighter and they intend to advertise it as a destroyer.

The real destroyer is sitting on the top.

This is so sad!

This is so sad to see that these Arab look a like have occupied Iran for 30 years! This is so sad to see when ever these imbeciles want to say something it has to start with a bunch of Arabic words that they claim are verses from Quran! And, finally this is so sad and at the same time so funny to see this mischievous MOLA KHAMENEI is the Shah of Iran NOW! and the CHIEF OF ARMED FORCES!

aaaaaaaaa, hahahahahahahaha,aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

lies!!

They boast they can build a warship, but land a 1969 Huey helicopter on it!!!!! if Iran claims to be so advanced to build such a warship with such advanced radar system, how come it can't build helicopters which are far more easier to do.  Dont you think, to become advanced in anything you would start with baby steps and have the processes and knowledge in place one piece at a time.  Their lies and charlatanism is evident here.  All for show and propoganda and the smart ones among us won't fall for it.