Misc

What a heroine is Shirin Ebadi!

What a heroine is Shirin Ebadi! Her Noble Prize Medal was taken  from her possesion by the Iranian government, her sister held in jail, her office known as the Centre for the Defense of Human Rights was raided by government authorities and closed, her coworkers were imprisoned and threatened. At one time in the past year, vicious rumors circulated that she and her family members were “Baha’is.” She brings grace and light to the word “Muslim.” I am unable to describe how much I admire and honor this woman, but I am able to thank her from the bottom of my heart.

VPK, That could have changed the course of history ;0)

If someone had just informed the Nazi officers of the 'Father Land' that Nazi was a girl's name, that would have changed the course of history lol

Thanks dude ;) 

You are right on the spot Anvar

The new generation -most of them- is *breathing* the concept of individual freedom while the generation of their parents -some of them- were merely contemplating the idea.

Fouzul Bashi

You are on for the drink; I  hold you to it :-) I buy the chelo kabab you get the drink. 

I am very relieved that you do not call me Nazi. It's a girl name and I am a dude.

Anvar - regarding Bahaa'is

I believe whether Bahaa'is are Muslims, or some consider themselves to be Muslims, or neither of these, is besides the issue I was pointing to.  For me personally, it does not make an iota of difference.  

However, I get your point, thank you.  Perhaps I should have said Bahaa'is themselves believe in Prophet Mohammad and originate from the same traditions and faith.

For the record…

Dear friends, if I may cut in:

* Fouzul Bashi* - You stated: “Baha'is who consider themselves Muslims by the way…” and also “…of the Muslim Bahaa'is…”  In case I’m not misreading your writings, let me set the record straight.  Baha’is do not consider themselves Muslims and there is no such a thing as a Muslim Baha’i.  It is true that that the prophet founders of the Babi and Baha’i Faiths were Muslims before they declared their stations and manifestations; but the religions they founded are considered to be Independent religions.  Just like Jesus who was a Jew, but we don’t refer to his followers as Jewish Christians.  (The actual relationship between the Baha’i faith and all other religions, including Islam, is beyond the scope of this post.)

*Veiled Prophet of Khorasan* - I agree with you that the majority of Iranians are good people, but I also agree with *Niloufar Parsi* that a major cause of the persecution of Iranian Baha’is has been the tyranny of the majority.  Actually, I believe it has been the tyranny of some in the majority and the apparent tacit approval by the rest of the group.

I am so grateful of the brave and open-minded new generation of Iranians who stand up for the human rights of everyone in Iran.  Many of these fine individuals are present on this very site.  However, this is a relatively new phenomenon.  Yes, it has been the clergy who’ve instigated provocations against Baha’is, but unfortunately the majority of good people remained silent for 150 years.  Do you think the Mullahs preach in empty mosques or perform their Friday prayers/sermons for each other?

This is a rhetorical question and no answer is required, but didn’t your grandma or aunt or neighbor or teacher tell you Baha’is were ‘najis’ (unclean/impure)?  How many times did the good people stand up against their grandmas and preachers in the last century?

It’s been said that all that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing.  The good people of Iran have just started to speak out.

In the history books, they didn’t write that a few Nazis killed the Jews.  They wrote that the Germans were responsible for the Holocaust.  It is true that the vast majority of Iranian Muslims are wonderful people, but it is also true that All the atrocities that have been committed against Iranian Baha’is have been committed by the Iranian Muslims.

Do you think the history books will write “The majority of Iranians were good people except for a handful of Mullahs who were unkind to the Baha’is?”

Thanks for indulging me.

Anvar

Thank you

Thank you, JJ, for your posting. Moreover, I want to thank you for Iranian.com. It has been a forum for us all to learn the differing viewpoints that exist within our community.

We all have our prejudices that we need to contend with, regardless of our belief system. None of us are exempt. Tackling our prejudices is part of the process of life. Additionally, showing care and compassion for the plight of others is not an easy task.

Daily, I contend with addressing this and the rest of my short-comings.

Iranian.com has provided me a place to learn about the experiences of others. People and circumstances I would not have, otherwise, been familiar with. Thank you. We have become each other's champion. 

I am grateful for the attention focused on the suffering of the Iranian Baha'i community, right now. We need the strength and support of all Iranians to get us, collectively, through this difficult time.

VPK

No, I did not call you a Nazi.  I don't think you are a Nazi.  I did not make a reference to you personally.  

My point is not ambiguous.  I am not against criticism and although I abhor insulting and humiliating others for their religious faith and personal beliefs, I am for freedom of speech.  

However, criticism and freedom of speech do not stand abstractly and in isolation from the reality of social situations and balance of forces around them.  Freedom of speech that abuses and humiliates and slanders and labels becomes persecution when its victims or subjects cannot retaliate and enjoy the same freedom safely.  

I am really looking forward to that drink when the time comes and I give you my word now that I'll buy ;) 

Fouzul Bashi

I am not sure what you are saying. If you are comparing me to Nazis that it the cheapest shot I heard.  If not then please be very clear about what you mean. Also: I am not defending people who hat Muslims. I am just saying that it is obvious why it is happening. To ignore the obvious is foolish. Muslims should be aware of what is giving them a bad name; don't you think? Then they can address it and improve their image. Otherwise it will be "Nadand va nadand ke nadand".

Regarding criticism: Freedom of speech means you can criticize; demonize; humiliate; insult and say whatever you want. Even call someone a Nazi if you like :-) You do not have a right to stone; kill or put people in jail because of their beliefs if they have not done anything.

I realize that among many people both in the East and the West freedom of speech is not accepted. In Europe they have anti "hate speech" laws. Muslims do not allow any kind of "insult" to their religion. The problem is: how do you define insults? I have lived in the US off and on for better part of 30 years and seen unrestricted free speech. It works! You do not need to restrict it. In fact here Muslims even after 911 are more free than in most of the world. The same goes for Jews and other religions. It is a false statement that criticism or even insults will result in Nazi actions. 

The proof is right here to see. Honestly if you try free speech you will see that it is a good thing. 

"It's their own fault"!!!

VPK - This is what the fascists said of the Jews, the persecutors of Bahaa'is say of Bahaa'is, and Islamophobes say of Muslims!!!!

To criticise is different from insulting, slandering, humiliating, blaming, marginalising and terrorising.  This is what I hear happen to Muslims around me in this corner of the world, and I have my eyes and ears open to the scapegoating and persecution elsewhere too.  Had I not been genuine in my concern, I would not have been genuinely appalled and concerned about the fate of the Muslim Bahaa'is in Iran.

Islam and Muslims, as with other religions and their adherents have many shades and colours and meanings.  As you said yourself, if what you want is a separation of religion from state, then let people be .. with their faiths.  Remember, any action has a reaction. 

who in Iran hasn't been the victim of the IRR?

Form the moment that Ayatooleh Hendizadeh came to power he wanted revenge.  He wanted revenge from Iranians for not making him king two decades earlier, and for bot standing up to the Shah when Shah sent him to exile.  And revenge he took.  add to the mix that he was a genuine Iran hater as well, and was happy to see Iranian society reverse decades of progress and land in the Middle Ages.  I wrote a blog about this recently.  Here's the link:

 //iranian.com/main/blog/anonymous-observer/those-who-are-still-denial-1979-devolution-was-failure

Niloufar Parsi

You are right the Baha'i have been persecuted in Iran well before IRR. The reason is that we have had Mullahs in Iran before IRR got to power. They pulled the same s***t on Jews; Zartoshtiis and Armanies. The Baha'i got the worst of it. It was all fueled by the Mullahs not by the majority of Iranian people who are a good people. 

We need to put a stop to the peddling of hate by these freaks. They have gone well over the top. The world like a body is reacting to this disease of intolerance.

The Iranian people have moved into the 21st century. But the Mullahs are still in the 6th! They look into a frigging well for guidance! 

VPK

i am afraid my impression is that Bahais have always been persecuted in iran since the beginning. this is another example.

Niloufar Parsi

Wrong! It is not the tyranny of majority. You do Iranians a disservice. We do not hate the Baha'i. It is the tyranny of a bunch of Mullahs. Not the majority of Iranian people. Please do not insult Iranian people.

Fouzul Bashi

You cannot limit criticism. I remember all the bs about the right kind and wrong kinds of criticism. You either allow it or you don't. In my world you allow people to say whatever they want. No punishment. If you don't like what you hear don't listen. As for persecution it is flat out wrong. 

By the way, Islam is doing a fine job of demonizing itself. It is not the West that made the  Nigerian asshole burn his **** off trying to blow up a plane. It was his  religion. So  if you want to see why Islam is disliked in the West take a look at the actions of Muslims. It is obvious.

veiled prophet of Khorasan

I will join you for that drink if I may! I am all for the separation of religion from state.

Of course there is difference between criticism and persecution, but there is criticism and criticism!!  Baha'is who consider themselves Muslims by the way, are persecuted in Iran, and Muslims are persecuted as part of the Islamophobic tactics of a greater imperialist agenda. Islamophobia that is currently rife in the West and some of our compatriots amongst the diaspora have joined in the chorus is similar in intent to the anti-Semitism under Hitler's Germany and elsewhere in Europe turning Jews into scapegoats for failure of capitalism.  Islam, Bahaism, Christianity, Judaism .. they can all be criticised, it is the context and the way in which it is done that makes all the difference.   

madness

this is complete madness. tyranny of the majority.

These are your words JJ

These are your word JJ

I am a Bahai too

This is my extension to your words:

I am a Bahai too

A Christian and a Jew

I am certainly not

A Muslim just like you

...

These are my words to the likes Khamenei and Ahmadi.

Scapegoats

Every totalitarian regime needs scapegoats to blame for its own evilness. The Nazis had the Jews and the Islamists of one sect use Muslims of other sects. And in Iran, the Baha'is are perfect for the part since their very religion has abolished the parasitic profession of clergy putting the akhoonds out of business and forcing them to earn their living by doing some honest work.

So, the Baha'i faith is deeply hated for akhoond's economic concerns as well as a way of rallying the fanatical masses against a perceived enemy. Time and again the akhoonds and their goons have proven their complete lack of scrupulous. Most recently in the aftermath of the fraudulent presidential election they have completely exposed their true nature to the decent and brave Iranian people.

I dare say that the Baha'is as a religious community revere Iran and do their best to further it in every respect since it is their true holy-land--the birthplace of the founder of their faith. All this absurd charges regarding spying against Iran could not be further from the truth.

I am not sure what they aim to achieve by persecuting the Baha'is. The best they can hope for is using this pretax in the hope of extending their leeching rule over the suffering people of Iran.

As others have said, I also would echo their sentiment: Shame and more shame on these shameless true enemies of Iran and its people.

Defending our most vulnerable is defending ourselves

I don't care for religion but attacking the very core of fascism at heart of IRR's assault on individual & civil rights, exposes their ugly face to their base and supports an Iran unified for a civil future

 از برتولت برشت :اول به سراغ یهودیها رفتند من یهودی نبودم، اعتراضی نکردم ....... پس از آن به لهستانیها حمله بردند من لهستانی نبودم و اعتراضی نکردم ....... آنگاه به لیبرالها فشار آوردند من لیبرال نبودم،...... اعتراض نکردم سپس نوبت به کمونیستها رسید کمونیست نبودم، بنابراین اعتراضی نکردم ....... سرانجام به سراغ من آمدند هر چه فریاد زدم کسی نمانده بود که اعتراضی کند

There is a difference between ...

Fouzul Bashi:

Do I criticize Islam? You bet! But I do not go around persecuting Muslims. There is a difference between criticism and persecution. How about this: Separation of religion and state? Then Baha'i get to practice their religion; Muslims theirs and I get to have a drink to the a free Iran?

VPK

Your crime? You're a Bahai

We are overwhelmed by an avalanche of news about unprecedented protests in Iran. The detentions, the killings, the lies. Meanwhile leaders of the Bahai community in Iran are quietly put on trial for... what? Vague charges of attempting to undermine the Islamic Republic.

These accusations are not new. The religious establishment has always labeled Bahais as agents of foreign powers on a mission to destroy Islam. In fact various clerics and radical groups have used attacks on Bahais as a means to generate hysteria and portray themselves as defenders of Islam >>> more

We stand with our Baha'i hamvatans

We cannot have freedom and dignity as a nation and as human beings in so long as people are persecuted for their religious and personal beliefs.  Those who attack Islam and Muslim, should bear this contradiction in mind, when shedding crocodile tears for Baha'is in Iran.

We stand and fall together.  May god give them strength and patience so that together we can build a saner more equitable Iran. 

Stand with Iran’s Baha'i Faithful

Our Baha'i countrymen are prisoners of conscience.

In one voice, time and again, our nation has condemned their imprisonment and trails. The Islamic Republic of Iran will be brought to justice and will be held accountable for the crimes against humanity.

The day of reckoning approaches…

Shameful indeed

The irony is that IRR get all bent out of shape whenever someone criticizes Islam. But when it comes to other religions they have no tolerance at all. I strongly condemn the persecution of Baha'i.

The IRR usual line is: Israeli Spy!! How many times do they use this tired word.

To see that in 1978 people chose this over Bakhtiar! What a mistake; how many lives ruined. Now we have to rid the world of IRR and its intolerance.

Shameful

Shameful that they keep targeting Bahais.

help another nation! too

Help Haitian by donating

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//tinyurl.com/ybl7nad

Appalling.

Appalling.

Crimes against humanity

These are crimes against humanity that everyone should take very seriously.