Misc

Chosen or forced?

How is it possible to establish whether a woman has been forced to choose burqa or indeed any other type of hedjab?  I agree with MM and SamSam (minus Ommati bits) that in a patriarchal setting, in a free society, it is possible (and it happens all the time) that women ARE forced to wear what they don't want but because of their economic and social dependence, they have to choice but to forego their 'civil' right.  

But there is another issue here, there is no doubt that if there is a ban on burqa, many women would be banned from leaving home by their patriarchs.  Also considering there ARE women who for reasons of personal belief or for any other personal or cultural reason, such as not wishing to be socially ostracized in their own families and communities, who do want to continue wearing the burqa, and this banning would be against their civil rights. 

In short, there is no easy solution, I believe.  Such changes should tackle more fundamental issues such as economic disparity and exclusion.  When women are economically and educationally able they can become far more outspoken and DEFEND THEIR RIGHTS THEMSELVES OR BRING ABOUT LEGAL CHANGES THEMSELVES. 

No Hejab!

There is a story as how muslim women were forced to cover themselves. It is said that Mohammad (The Prophet) used to have a very beautiful wife and every body used to check her out. One day Mohammad’s uncle Abutaleb tells Mohammad that u need to do something about your wife.

Since Mohammad couldn’t just tell his wife to cover herself, he comes up with this Haram shit that women have to cover themselves because it is  Haram for another man to look at a woman.

If god created women and wanted to cover women he would have sent them to earth covered. This hejab and other bullshit has been created just to oppress women.

The women in the clip shouldn’t go to a nude beach if she wants to be covered, because this will put the nudes on the beach at a discomfortable situation so don’t go there if you like hejab so much move to a very extreme Islamic country is better for you.

Wrong Samsam

No sir, it is not banning women from wearing a full hejab but banning the men's wishes who force full hejab on their women.

Forcing any adult to wear something against their will is already illegal. No one is forced to do it in France. All they have to do is call the police if someone is physically forcing them to do it.

However, someone who wants to wear it, without being forced has now lost their rights.

Yet another instance of "individual rights" applying only to "some" individuals based on their own world views. Hypocrisy at its finest. Just like Javid said.

JJ, Banning Burqa is not a right wing extremist approach .

        In a civilized society like France , it would be an essential pragmatic gender equalizer .

         Allowing women to cover head to toe , With even faces covered is not bringing "common sense " as JJ puts it . It is rather " bringing common non-sense" to the debate . France is a modern western society , why should they allow such impractical , anachronistic outfits imposed on women ? 

         Should they also permit female circumsicion? or breast ironing for young females?

         JJ , you have an  outlook of  cultural relativism . Suppressing women is not a cultural issue . Seeking equality for women is a human issue . It is in the vey nature of us human beings to be free regardless of race or gender .

What about polygymy?

We outlaw that, even between consenting adults.

Should we not?

The lady in the video, wants to go the country of nudists, and still wear cloths, and considers it her 'right'(!) to wear cloths.

What kind of logic is that?

If the democratically elected government enacts and imposes a law in a country, you respect and abide by it, or you go elsewhere!

And remember: You can still cover your face in France in the public; just have to go by French law while using government services! 

I agree with the freedom of

I agree with the freedom of choice, but full burqa/neqab should be banned in high security areas, while driving and/or operating machinery and if it was felt that the women were forced to wear it.

JJ you are priceless

just as your worldview of shariati protege turned liberal absolutist. This line says it all;

banning women from wearing the full hejab (niqab/burqa) in a free society is hypocritical. The right to choose is a fundamental right.

No sir, it is not banning women from wearing a full hejab but banning the men's wishes who force full hejab on their women.

If I hear this from a zealot I got no time to waste on em but getting this from the head of Iranian.com says so much about how far us ommaties(me included) need to go to know the difference between individual rights vs patriarchal laws imitating rights. I have no problem with hejab by free will(my mom wears one) but most of these women do it because they are given no other choice by their Abdul or Asghar aghaa .

Path of Kiaan Resurrection of True Iran Hoisting Drafshe Kaviaan //iranianidentity.blogspot.com //www.youtube.com/user/samsamsia

Ban it

Please ban this symbol of oppression. This is no different that chastity belt during the dark ages. It was created by men for the men so they can control women and oppress them as they please.

Extreme secularism

Glad to see checks and balances in the French political system are bringing some measure of common sense to the hejab debate. Fighting Islamic fundamentalism with secular/right-wing extremism is counter-productive.

I agree with this person's commentary that banning women from wearing the full hejab (niqab/burqa) in a free society is hypocritical. The right to choose is a fundamental right. Taking away rights is what we expect from religious groups, not from politicians in a country that prides itself in being the guardian of individual rights.

Also, attempting to pass a bill that literally affects only a few hundred women in the entire country will not make France a safer place or fight fundamentalism. Why not instead focus on an educational campaign in the Muslim community to promote secular values?