Current Events

Conspriacy theory

"It was Jimmy Carter and Brzezinski who were behind it. This is admitted by them on numerous occasions like the interview with Le Monde. The idea was to surround the Soviet Union with a "Green Belt". It both worked and failed. " VPK

Wish you could read my comment in detail because I tried to illustrate exactly what was happening. If you have time, please go back and read it.

 Your write up sounds like the million Iranians are just "useless sculptures" standing idelly, waiting others make decision for them. This kind of thinking could contribute to 2 factors.

A. The history of foreign power intervention in Iran affairs since shah abbas-e- kabir.

B. Paranoid ideation that became part of "Iran folklore" after the book of Iraj Pazekspoor 'Dai jan Naplean".

Please read more about Iran history. That will benefit everyone to see where we were and how we get here. That is more important factor than Carter's wish or other foreign power wish. Always remember, foereign power such as U.S or U.K or China, or Japan or any other is looking for their own benefits and support whoever talks their language, but they don't create that language. They are NOT determining factor as far as history concern. Mass of Iran make their own destiny, not U.S or U.K or China, or Japan.  Mass is determining factor.

Do me a favor and please pick up the phone and call department of sociology or department of history. Ask any faculty member who answers the phone

Q: Based on your study of history or society, is it possible foreign country change the mood, history, culture or establishment of another country.? 

Please let me know what the answer is.

Thanks,

Siavash

Siavash

You have a very long post so I will just deal with on part of it: radical Islam. You are right that prior to 1979 radical Islam was not that popular. But it was not IRI that was behind it. IRI was a symptom.

It was Jimmy Carter and Brzezinski who were behind it. This is admitted by them on numerous occasions like the interview with Le Monde. The idea was to surround the Soviet Union with a "Green Belt". It both worked and failed.

It worked to wreck the Soviet Union. It failed in generating a bigger monster that the one it killed. If you want to research it please do so. It included funding the Afghan Mojahedeen. Radicalization of Iran. And other funding of Islamic radicals. The policy was continued by the Reagan administration and it to this day. Why do you think they are removing secular Arab dictators. Just to replace them with Islamic states. Why did USA allow Iraq to become an Islamic state and no Libya.

Think about it man! USA was in a position to write a secular constitution for both Iraq and Afghanistan. It chose an Islamic one under Bush: why?  IRI is a tool. In the great game and nothing more.

You are giving a bunch of mullahs in Qum way too much credit. It is the West that turned Iran from a Googoosh listening Fardin watching society. Into a forced hijab; woman stoning 7th century *** hole. Yes Iranian people were stupid.

But the whole change in ME is orchestrated. Not by IRI but West in order to destabilize it. You see why asking them to "free" us is pointless. It is like asking Jack the Ripper to save a woman from rape! He will save her by cutting her throat.

Islamic gang in Iran

"Which criminal are you talking about: Khamenei; AN or the car dealer? " Veild prophet of khorasan

We are talking here about the line of thinking who took power in Iran since 1979. This line of thinking which has been destructive and dangerous. The individuasl as you named it is NOT important, the idea is important. This line of thinking had been preserved it's energy since 200 years ago to take power in Iran and finally they were able to do so in 1979. It is in our histroy during mashroteyat that people gathered in front of Majlis chanting : "We don't want mashroteyat, we want deen-e-mobin".

"mashrote nemikhahem, din mobin khaheem". crowd were chanting.

 Kheyabani in Tabriz, Mirza kochek khan Jangali in Gilan, Modares in Tehran.... .. and the list goes on and on, they were all promoting that line of thinking throughout our history. Islamic thinking and their greets to take power had been in our history since 200 years ago. The idea was to combined politics with religion. "our religion is our politic and our politic is our religion" said the Ayatollah Modares.

In order to get a good picture of any illness in medical field the physician always ask for the patient's history. The physician forms opinion and appropriate diagnosis based on the patient history combined with current symptoms.  

The same principal applies to the society as well. We can't detect or analyse social pathology without historical consideration, especially iran which is different history with Europe and western world. To make it more clear for you, I just give you some examples.

Before 1979, only PLO was considered as "terrorist" or "gang" group in the eyes of international community. The idea came after this group installed a bomb in one travel agency and blown up the office. The world was peaceful place to live in, even though state of Israel was established in 1948. No islamic problem in 50's, 60's or 70's.

Now, after this mess in Iran, the radical and islamic groups started to grown up like a mashrooms. 1983 Hezbollah was formed by Khomainie in Lebanon, then Jihad Eslami, then Hamas and other terrorist groups. Just like a mashrooms. Khaminie's videos were spreaded in Kuwait in 1988 inviting Kuwaitis to uprise against their U.S puppet government. Mullahs were catch rioting in Saudi Arabia in 1980 during pilgramage in Mecca chanting "death to America". The ceremony called "baraat". 400 were killed during that ceremoney in 1988. you may google it and read it yourself. News papers were sending in Lebanon saying we started from Mosque,you guys should start like we did. I was reading all mullah's invitation from arab world against america in those days. All the sudden, The Afghans started to find the other version of Islam. The message for them was Iran's mullahs were able to take power, why not you guys. So Talibans came to the picture in 1994. "Akhvan-e-muslim" in Pakistan became more active and "muslim brotherhood" in Egypt trying to get power since Saddat assissination. Funny thing is the murder of Saddat who said in his trail in  court he want some republic like Iran in Egypt. Iran gang called one street in Tehran after his name because of that.  Iran was sponsoring many groups in Sodan, Algeria and other muslim countries throughout the middle east. Our oil money get spent in either south of Lebanon or in some aftica nations promoting shiiasm in there. The idea grown as one day U.S president woke up and saw the line of thinking I am discussin here hit a twin tower in NYC. This line of thinking didn't exist in the world before 1979. It was an idea in Iran but it didn't play any role in our modern history till mullahs took power in 1979.

Please just step back as "Gestalt psychology" suggests and take a good look at the picture from distance. Not very far,  just step back since  60 years ago and tell me what you see. There is no indication of radical islam before 1979 in those countries I mentioned.

Sincerely,

Siavash 

Siavash

Which criminal are you talking about: Khamenei; AN or the car dealer? How do they get this bomb to Israel. And don't you think they worry about retaliation. No I don't like this regime. But I don't like shooting off the hip.

The IRI has damaged Islam more than any force except AQ. Iranians are leaving Islam in droves. I know more former Muslims Iranians than Muslims. Why: because of IRI. So if their goal is Islamization of the world they are doing a pretty bad job at it. 

Really how many Islamic nations has IRI created: one. How many has USA created: Iraq; Afghanistan; Kosovo; Libya; and the list keeps going. Who is really fueling Islamism. Go read some news and find out it is all there. Who is turning Egypt into an Islamic state now?

If this criminal has access to atomic bomb

Yes, they will vanish Israel in a heart beat if they have access to nuclear power. Next target will be Europe. Islamization of whole world is mullah's great ambition. The dream of taking over Europe had been mullah's long term strategy. It has nothing to do with neocons.Taking over the Spain once again and called it Andules as it was before. My apology was to comfort those who are offended by my analogy, but that doesn't wipe out the fact of devilish face of this gang who occupied Iran and the fact that some has no clue what these people are up to. Similar to leftis who were cheeleadering these monster by saying they are anit-Imperialism. Taking over U.S embassy was considered to be anit imperliam by explanation of left wing sympathizers back in 80's. They had no clue these monsters action is not based on logic or being anti imperialism. They were anti civilization and anti human dignity. They were not able to get it. Still many Iranians don't get it. Taking over U.S embassy in Tehran was totally barbaric act that didn't match the norm of civilized soceity. George Bush worke up after viewing one of Islamic's tape in 2001. He said  these people are anti civilalization. He said it after they blown up twin tower.  Wake up Mr. president, Iranians found it out in 1979. "Exporting Islamic revolution" has been foreign  policy of this gang since day one they took power in Iran. Anyone standing agains it is doom to be killed. According to koran's surah " the answer for those who deceived and don't believe in Islam is Hadid means Iron. The bullet is Iron according to mullah's interpretation of Koran. Take a guess how many of these people who make comments on this site know about this. I say 20%. What about the rest who don't get it as leftist didn't get it in 1979. We never forget the news song track in state control T.V in Tehran back in 80's started by saying to reach Qudes we have to go through Iraq's soil. Mullahs wanted to take over Iraq and didn't want to end the war. What was the reason.? the answer is simple: Islamization of whole world. Making Emarat and appointing Khalifeh in each state.   

Siavash

Siavash

This idea is in contrast with VPK's view of neo cons promoting nuclear issue and the islamic gang never attack anyone.

When did I say Islamists never attack anyone?  You are putting words in my mouth. I never said the above. What I did say was that the nuclear issue is a red herring. I said Isalmists radicals in Iran are attacking Iranian people all the time.

Yes Neocon are promoters are war. The Iraq war is a perfect example of it. Next time you want to read my posts don't confuse them please. I find your "Sorry" not to be genuine. You are making assumption about my positions not reading what I write.

Sorry If I offended anyone..

I read all comments again and again.

The Islamic gang who occupied Iran don't view the whole world as normal and rational person view it. For example, when they rape a virgin girl the night before her execution, they don't look at it as "rape". They truely believe there is a life after death and according to koran the virgin goes to paradise if she gets executed, then to make sure she goes to hell she has to be married one night so taste the ultimate punishment after executiion and goes to hell. That is the reason religious dictatorship is the worse type of establishment to get overthrown. Killing any opponent of Islam is "compulsary". The Islamic gang believe they are following koran instructions and any one opposed has to be killed with no mercy.

Does anyone remember the idea was Islamization of whole world at the begining of the revolution. "Our youth are thinking to put the flag of Islam on top of white house one day" said the khomainie in 1980.

Now , these are the same people. It doesn't matter if it is Saudi or Iraqis or U.S, as long as they are against Islam they must be vanished. This idea is in contrast with VPK's view of neo cons promoting nuclear issue and the islamic gang never attack anyone. Martyrdom is ultimate goal in any body's life to fight enemy of islam. We have to look at life from the angle of these people, not Obama's administration. Westerners compleletely don't understand what these people are all about and most Iranians also forget how these people came to power and how they are thinking and how they operate. Their thought process is completely differ with normal and rational individuals. At the end,I wish these monsters vanished without any bloodshed because I see very bad future for our country.   

Siavash

I suggest you to read my comment again, I said:

Quote from the informant: "...I'm going to start working on doing the ambasador..."

This plot makes a hilarious comedy, sci fi, drama, spy movie...

..Then I laughed ( at lameness of this plot, whether its an IRI's plot or the US department's).

..and that made me like many others, on payroll by mullahs!

I pray for Iranian people befor getting rid of the brutall regime of mullahs, to get rid of black and white way of thinking which has affected some.

Siavash30

With due respect, you do not get it.

The allegations have been made by a power - the U.S. - that has a long track of deception, deceiving not just the world, but its own citizens. This is a totally relevant factor here. It is not just what is said, but also who says it.

All I am saying is that, given what we know at this point, I am skeptical. As I said, it is not that the VF regime has not done horrible things, but that this just looks too amateurish, too stupid, by a regime that has survived all sorts of crises.

It may turn out that the allegations are true. But, rushing to judgement, especially given the track record of the U.S. and the modus operandi of the VF regime, is not wise.

Mammad

Siavash

I do not beat around the bush or imply. I say it right out without any BS. I don't know if this plot is real or made up I really don't; furthermore I do not care. Because I do know two things:

• IRI is guilty of crimes against Iranian people. That is a fact that happens daily with hangings. So it does not matter to me if they were behind this or not.
• For America to take military action against IRI it needs popular support.

A war is a tough sell and Obama will need to convince Americans. You and others keep giving arguments to convince Iranians. That is not the point! I have mentioned this at least half a dozen times but I may as well be talking to a rock. 

VPK

Agree. But, we cannot stop expressing our opinion just because we cannot change the opinion of some here. There is, in my opinion, a large silent majority that does not support the extreme views of a few vocal here.

I have received too many e-mails from regular commentators here that tell me privately that I should continue commenting here. It is not that you or I are always right. God only knows how many times I have been wrong. But, as you know well, only through civilized debates we can get a better understanding of what is going on.

Mammad

Mammad and VPK concerns

"the US has a long track record of deception" Mammad

" I find your implication that I don't get it highly offensive. But not at all surprising and very typical of IC posters." VPK 

We are talking about Mullahs and current situation of killing Saudi embassador. The subject is NOT about U.S. The subject is Iran. Hello....ooo....  

I am wondering why some people try to change the subject? Is there any alternative motive?

Dear VPK,

Why should you be offended of my general statement? Some people don't get it doesn't mean any specific person. I have read many comments with many different views and I think some just don't get it. It has nothing to do with you or any specific person. For example I read from Abarmard that this childish claims shows U.S is not looking for human right and just want to get some previliges from the criminal gang in Iran. Unlike what Iranians are thinking. Perisan Westender is saying the whole story is a joke. I am saying what is the joke.? This criminals have a long record of brutality. What makes difference between Salman Rushdi death decree and Saudi Embassador death decree? they are both international targets of mullah's vicious. What part is difficult to understand? What part is funny. I don't understand.

Now, speaking of mullahs being set up for further U.S action and possibly military intervention is another scenario. What you are is the fact that U.S is trying to convince American people for further action against mullahs. What I am saying your suggestion sounds like you don't believe such a plot happend and you conclude that is completely made up by Obama administration because the same scenario happened in 2002 about WMD in Iraq. First of all, that was another administration and Bush was republican with diifferent view about foreign policy. Now there is a person who seems intelligent and fair person in the top of administration. Different era and different outcome. If there is a set up, which I don't deny compleletly, it is not that far from reality of what happened during last 32 years in Iran. On the other hand,  I am not that naive about those people who are on payroll by mullahs and making comments which is explicitly taking side with Islamic criminals gang. I can read between the lines. Those comments may work on some other people, not me.  

Dear Mammad

Mammad 

Please be careful talking reason or logic here gets you no friends. Next thing you will be accused of all sorts of things.  People think that USA is going to come and replace IRI with a great "democracy".

I say it is wishful thinking and strongly mistrust the US motives. All you say is true but it will fall on deaf ears. To this group you are with them or against them. No room for ambiguity or questioning. If this is democracy then we might as well not bother.

Good luck and thanks for bringing reason,

Best

VPK

Be cautious: the US has a long track record of deception

It is not that the VF regime has not committed terroris - it has too many - but that its track record does not indicate this type of amateurish plots.

More importantly though, just because one hates the VF regime does not mean that the U.S. should be trusted. It has a long trackrecord of lies:

From WW II, to Gulf of Tonkin (Vietnam), Iran-Contra, bringing Kuwait's ambassador to the U.S. in 1990 to Congress to lie about the rapes she had witnessed by Iraqi soldiers in Kuwait while she was the whole time in the U.S., all the lies and deception about Iraq, presenting Jessica Lynch as a "hero," claiming that Pat Tillamn, Arizona Cardinal safety had been killed by enemy fire in Afghanistan, outing its own CIA agent Valerie Plame, .......

I can continue for pages. There is indeed a long track record of deception.

Mammad

Siavash

Did you read my writing? If you want America to take out the IRI then you better get their people behind you. I know IRI is criminal and do not need this "plot". There is plenty of other proof.

No need to convince me of the evil of IRI. But you as all the other posters on IC ignored the big question. I will repeat: How does Obama tell American people to spend their money and risk their lives to free Iran? 

That is assuming America has the best interests of Iran in mind. Now if you don't have a response then don't bother stamp your feet. Because no matter what people on IC say it will not happen. Go ahead and blame me like the rest of the gang. PS: I find your implication that I don't get it highly offensive. But not at all surprising and very typical of IC posters.

These are the same criminals who killed many.....

"This plot makes a hilarious comedy, sci fi, drama, spy movie... 

 hahaha..." Persian westender

"I have been reading CNN; Huffington Post; NY Times and other journals. Sadly IC is has the highest percentage of posters believing the USA government" Veild Prophet of Khorasan

The plot of killing opposition started in Turkey during 80's. Mullahs secret agents killed about 93 oppositions.

This is the same line of terror and murder that eliminated Bakhtiar, Farokhzad, Saeedi sir jahni, Chain murders by Saeed Imami such as Jafar Poyandeh, Mohammad Mokhtari. The dramatic, brutal murder of Daruish forohar and his wife Parvaneh Forohar in their residence in Tehran. The plot and mass murder of  Dr. Sharafkandi and others in Mikonos restaurant in Germany. What is the difference? what makes it funny this tiem?

Islamic Criminal gang who occupied Iran for last 32 years showed their vindictive, brutal and vicious nature for their opponents over the years. What is the different this time? These are the same criminals. The same gang who massacre 30,000 Iranians political prisoners in summer of 1988 because they didn't believe this gang was chosen by God. Nothing has been changed. Their philosophy is : Zero tolerance for oppositions. Either inside Iran or outside Iran. They are chosen by God to execute God's will on the earth and any establishments or individuals who prevent that process is "Mohareb ba khoda"or "Against God's will"  and his killing would be in order. Americans who write blog or literatures on magazines don't know it, but majority Iranians do.  Seems some Iranians still don't get it.  

Dear Babak

I agree that the Khamenei regime is guilty. This issue does not even matter. Just the thousands of executions they proudly advertise is sufficient prooof. They are guilty. But you need to look from an American citizen perspective.

I asked this question before and no one gave me a good response. Fanoos did but her response was one directed to Iranians not Americans. I will ask it again: How does Obama tell American people to spend their money and risk their lives to free Iran? 

The above assuming Obama wants to do it and has the best interests of Iran in mind. Yes USA is able to do it. The cost is huge and I am not sure USA has the interests of Iranians in mind. But if America did how do you convince its people to do it.

Folks I am not saying it

I am just telling you what American public is saying. Don't blame the messenger. Go read for yourselves. What you and I think is not as important as the majority of American public. 

IranFirst is right. The right never accepts anything Obama says. The far left does not want a war. Also NY Times is not insignificant it is one of the main print media in America. NY Times was one of the major supporters of Iraq war. The skepticism is not from the paper it is from its readers. Just for a minute put yourself in shoes of an ordinary American. With the WMD fiasco would you believe this? Remember they don't care about Iran. They just don't want another trillion dollar bill. 

So Obama will not be able to get support for any real action. The only thing he will get is: more sanctions and probably a big arms sale to Saudi. Maybe that is all he wants.

IRI is guilty

Even before any trail IRI is guilty. US is just preparing the world for the day to remove this cancer from the face of the earth. True or fals this alegation will help to get the world ready, and that is a good thing.

Dear VPK

 Dear VPK

Many Americans (not all) are very polarized by political factions
(democrats vs republicans), in an election year. Far right Republicans
don't believe anything that Obama says. on top of that the far left in
democratic party (pacifists), would never want to even hear about
another terrorist state's (IRI) actions and plots (even if true), and
the possible prospects of a war. Add to that the current economic
conditions and joblessness in US. The result is the average American is
not interested in any additional foreign involvement, at this time. The
truth will come out, despite what people want to hear.

Another attempt by the left and insignificant media outlet in US

to whitewash IRR's mischievous behavior and criminal activities.

Fool me once shame on you!

Fool me twice shame on you!

Fool me thrice shame on me!

This is the most highly reocmmended post from NY times

As much as I don't trust Iran, sadly I'm not sure I trust my government. My first thought on hearing this news was, Is this a diversion? Why? Who benefits?

This is not what I am saying it is what an American reader said. And got more approvals than any other one on NY times.

The rest of  "highly recommended" all question the story; I read 20 so far.

Dear Simorgh

However, the US's credibility has unfortunately been tarnished with what was the flawed evidence used to justify the Iraq war in 2003.

Yes and that is what the price of lying is. Why parents teach their kids about the boy who cried wolf. The WMD thing will haunt USA credibility for decades. It ruined honor of an otherwise flawlessly honorable man: Colin Powell. 

I have been reading CNN; Huffington Post; NY Times and other journals. Sadly IC is has the highest percentage of posters believing the USA government. The non-Iranian Americans on those sides mistrust USA by a large majority. They don't trust IRI but they mistrust USA more. Imagine the loss of credibility required so that people actually mistrust their government over words of someone like AN. This is not Europeans it is Americans!

It makes it very difficult now to get public support for anything. Bush should have just said "Saddam tried to kill my dad and I am gonna kick his ***". It would hav sold better.

Dr. Mohandes

Dear Dr. Mohandes

What you are saying is true in general anywhere (I will add
dictators to your sentence too) "Politicians in general will do
everything and
say what is needed to be said in order to maintain some semblennce of
control and power", BUT unlike in IRI, in open societies (West and US),
the truths WILL eventually come out and the politician and heads
of government agencies are held accountable for their mistakes and
deliberate lies. 2012 is an election year in US, any major mistake will
cost Obama dearly.

I agree that this case has long ways to go I trust that evidence will be
provided in court, in due time to prove the government's case.

iran first

But also keep in mind that Politicians in general will do everything and say what is needed to be said in order to maintain some semblennce of control and power.

We still got a long way to be able to say definitively who said what to whom and what is theory behind it all, but i would not put it past EIther Obama or Holder to resort to the dirtiest and most unfair tactics to gain momentum.

Just a thought,

Simorgh5555, I agree

Dear Simorgh5555

I agree with you. I will be very surprised if CIA, FBI and Obama have
not gone trough extensive review of the facts and rigorously examining
this case, before making the announcement (they have been working on
this for few months). As you mentioned, after 2003, I imagine this is
done even with much more attention.

I find it very ironic, that some people say : we know IRI is a
terrorist entity and has killed many in Iran and around the world, BUT,
this does not look "professional" enough to be their job. As if
terrorism has a standard and IRI has reached the senior level and won't
make stupid mistakes. This is giving credit to criminals.

This is like saying, the police is wrong in arresting a known
professional mob criminal (who has murdered many in the past, without a trace), because
this time he gave a bomb to a kid to be placed under someone's car, and
the police caught the kid and has the mobsters finger prints on the
bomb.

IranFirst

Well said. There is no doubt that the IR has plotted similar assassinations. However, the US's credibility has unfortunately been tarnished with what was the flawed evidence used to justify the Iraq war in 2003. Having said that it would be extremely reckless for the US to maufacture another stupid plot knowing very well that the US public is war weary and their troops are overstretched in Afghanistan. The terrorist nature of the IR - the evil perpetrated against the Iranian people is justification enough to remove it.

Its very simple to decide if Terorist IRI did this or not

Conspiracy theorists come in all sorts and forms, each for their own
reasons (from idiot Islamists to far left ,...). Mr. Gareth Porter is
the same person who rejected the mass killings by the Pol Pot regime in Cambodia.

At this stage of revealing this plot (before the trial and before all
the evidence is officially presented), one has to ask himself a simple
questions : Do I believe Khamenei, Ahmadinejad and Terrorist  IRI (which has commited similar terrorist acts around the world, many times) or do I
believe the U.S. Attorney General, the head of the CIA
and most of all U.S. President Barack Obama, would risk their
reputations by this revelation.
Details of the evidence and intelligence findings (telephone
conversations or internet communications) are not released at this stage and will be revealed during the trial.

hahaha...who said what to whom?

Quote from the informant: "...I'm going to start working on doing the ambasador..."

This plot makes a hilarious comedy, sci fi, drama, spy movie... 

 hahaha...

ahhhh come on

So soon????!!

I thought we were just about to get to the good partzzz... FBI boys have a penchant to be party pooperzz..

Thanks a lot man. Now hurry the hell up and bring on the next ...one of those things you call... Plot and make eeet steeeng pooorooof! people in iran don't appreciate being stung too much. Jo know?