Genesis of Shi’a Islam

Balatarin
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Amil Imani
by Amil Imani
28-Aug-2008
 

In order to understand the clerical rulers of Iran, we need to learn about the genesis of their religious faith, Shi’a Islam, and the pivotal place of the Mahdi. Examination of the vast Islamic literature shows that the present sect of Shi’a Islam has evolved from a mix of cultural, political, economic and religious influences. I shall outline, in a summary form, how the belief in the Mahdi, the revered Imam whose advent is expected by the Shi’a faithful, crystallized over time. The Mahdi is expected to appear and save the world when it has reached the depth of degradation and despair. Below is a brief chronological account of how Shiism and the belief in the Mahdi as its pivotal figure were formed.

* Muhammad ruled with an iron fist while alive and no one contested his authority. He designated no heir, and left no will, oral or written, and had no male issues from any of his wives and slave women to inherit the office. Some believers, however, felt that the prophet wished for Ali, his cousin’s and son-in-law, to assume the Ummah’s leadership while a vast majority opted for the Arab’s traditional patriarchal seniority-based practice by choosing Abu-Bakr as the Caliph.

* Abu Bakr, Muhammad’s oldest high disciple and the father of Muhammad’s nine-year-old child-bride Ayesha, assumed the position of the first Caliph and died shortly thereafter. He was followed by Umar ibn al-Khattāb. Then, Uthman ibn Affan became the third Caliph, and finally by Ali ibn Abu Talib.

* Ali was considered by his admirers to be the greatest Muslim warrior and by his detractors as a vicious killer. Two of Ali’s sons, Hassan and Hussein were viewed similarly. Ali was murdered, according to one version, by one of his own followers who resented Ali’s capitulation to the Caliphate hierarchy. That is, the assassin and his like-minded Muslims felt that Ali betrayed Muhammad by not fighting to be his immediate successor and by consenting to be the fourth Caliph. Another version of his death is that a Persian warrior by the name of Brahman Jazyyeh killed Ali, avenging the death of numberless Persians that Ali and his people had slaughtered.

* Ali reportedly killed untold numbers of Islam’s enemies, including Persians, with his much-feared sword that had its own name: Zulfiqar. He was addressed by his followers as Amir-ul-Momeneen (Commander of the Faithful).

* The death of Ali transformed the feuding among the various Muslim factions into open warfare. Some decided to follow Ali’s son Hassan who was soon killed by contenders, then the faction adopted another son of Ali Hussein as their Imam. Hence, to these people, Ali was the first Imam; an appointee of Allah, without a firm basis for this belief. Ali was considered sinless and pure (taher) and immune from error. Over time, eleven males from Ali’s line were taken in succession as Pure Imams.

Thus, the 12-Imamate Shi’a originated with Ali as the first, Hassan as the second, and his brother Hussein as the third Imam.

* Hussein was killed in a fierce lopsided battle with Muslim opponents of the Imamate (those who opposed the system of Imamate leadership which is based on the hereditary succession of leaders from the line of Ali.) The two major divisions in Islam diverged with Sunnis opting for the elective Caliphate and Shiites for the hereditary Imamate.

* After Hussein’s death, some of his followers claimed that he had not died and that he would return. Others took to his brother Muhammad, and then later many took to Hussein’s son Zayn al-Abidin, as their Imam; and when he died, many followed his son, Muhammad Al-Baqir.


* Starting with the death of Ali, a strong belief began to form among his grieving followers that he had not died and that he would return to assume his rule. This belief in the return continued and eventually metamorphosed into the notion of Mahdi, or the Sahib-ul- Zaman (the Lord of the Age.)

* When al-Baqir died, there were once again elements from among the Shi’a who denied his death and claimed that he would return one day, while others settled on his son Ja'far al-Sadiq as their Imam.

* When Ja'far al-Sadiq died, there was mass splintering among the Shi’a. Each of his sons Isma'il, Abdullah, Muhammad, Zakariyya, Ishaq and Musa Al Kazem was claimed by various groups to be their Imam. Also a faction believed that Jaa'far did not die, he had simply disappeared from view, and that he would return one day.

* The same splintering and confusion happened after the death of Moosa. Some denied his death, believing that he will return, some following his son Ahmad as their Imam, while others chose his other son Ali al-Rida .

* After al-Rida, many took his son Muhammad al-Jawwad , also known as al-Taqi, and after him his son Ali al-Hadi -, or an-Naqi. At the death of Ali al-Hadi, they adopted his son Hassan al-Askari  as their new- and 11th- Imam.

The above is a very brief synopsis of a tumultuous genesis of the Shi’a adoption of the Imamate belief which climaxed at year 254 AH: the time when a major section of the Shi'a accepted as their Imam the 22-year old Hassan, son of Ali al-Hadi, and 10th lineal descendant of Ali and his wife Fatima (Muhammad’s daughter). Six years later, Hassan al-Askari is lying on his deathbed, but unlike any of his forefathers he leaves no offspring, no one to whom the Shi’a might turn to as their new Imam.

The Shiites, who had been regarding Hassan al-Askari as their Imam, were thrown into mass disarray. Does this mean the end of the Imamate? The end of the Imamate, they felt would mean the end of Shiism. They were not prepared for that.

The confusion that reigned among the Shi'a after the death of Hassan al-Askari is recorded by his contemporary Shi'a writer, Hassan ibn Moosa an-Nawbakhti, who reports the emergence of at least 14 sects among the followers of Hassan al-Askari, each one with a different view of the future of the Imamate and the identity of the next Imam. Another contemporary Shi’a writer, Sa'd ibn Abdullah al-Qummi, records 15 sects, and a century later the historian al-Mas'udi lists 20 separate sects.

At least four major divisions of belief emerged to deal with the crisis of not having a legitimate male from the line of Muhammad to turn to as Imam. One group accepted the death of Hassan al-Askari and the fact that he left no offspring. To them Imamate had ended in like manner that Nubuwat (mission of Muhammad himself) had ended with his death. Yet, some in this group retained hope for the advent of a new Imam.

Another group refused to accept the death of Hassan al- Askari, and claimed that he would return in the future to establish justice upon earth. The refusal to accept the death of an Imam and retain the belief in his future return goes back to the very early days of the Imamate line.

Yet another group bestowed the mantle of Imamate to Hassan’s brother Jaa'far.

The final major group headed by Uthman ibn Sa'id al-'Amri claimed that Hassan al-Askari did in fact have a son, Muhammad, who had gone into hiding at the age of four for reasons of safety and no one but himself could have any contact with him.  Uthman ibn Sa'id al-'Amri further claimed that as Wakeel (representative) of the Imam he was the one to collect money in the name of the Imams of the Ahl al-Bayt (descendents of Muhammad).

Hassan al-Askari's own family denied the existence of any child of his, and divided his estate between his brother Jaa'far and his mother. Yet Uthman ibn Sa'id and his gang won the allegiance of the masses of the believers by denouncing Jaa'far as al-Kadhdhab (the Liar).

This school of thought ultimately became the dominant view in Shiism with a new Wakeel following the death of a previous one.

With the passage of time, in-fighting among the various claimants for being the Wakeel exposed the scheme for nothing more than a way of extracting money from the gullible faithful. Yet, the belief in the Hidden Imam and his return remains a fundamental belief of Shiites.

To this day, the ever-supplicated cry of the Shi’a faithful is Ya Saheb-ul-Zaman (Lord of the Age Mahdi) hasten your return. Who is the much prayed for Mahdi? The four-year old who never was? The four-year old who went into hiding in a well, as some Shiites believe to this day—the well in Iran’s Jamkaran where president Ahmadinejad frequently visits, submits his written requests, and receives his marching orders from the Hidden Imam to whom he claims he is accountable?

Debunking the belief in the Hidden Imam and his return is pivotal to the falsifying of Shiism and helping the long-deluded Muslims in abandoning a fiction that has ruled and ruined their lives for far too long.

Balatarin
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more from Amil Imani
 
Sadaia_qesa

History matters

by Sadaia_qesa on Fri Aug 29, 2008 05:54 AM PDT

 

Dear Anonymous Observer　& K.W.

In a typical fashion, you are trying to obfuscate the issues and make it personal.

 

The site is YNetNews.com.

 

YNETnews.com is an Israeli online news organization run by Israelis for Israelis.

 Go See >>>

 

The other link is to an in-depth clinical analysis on psychological makeup characteristic of person[s] being discussed.

  

The CNN story, I am referring to is a (FACT) based on a first hand observation.

  

Why do you think CNN and YNETnews.com are racist sites?

It is defiantly not about religion (M/C/J) and it is not about Democracy, or WMD, or Terror …  

It is about a few greedy psychopaths who are welling to kill millions …

 

It is about Oil and in case of Israel it is about water and land.


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Thank you for enlightenning us about Shi'a Islam

by Realist (not verified) on Fri Aug 29, 2008 04:22 AM PDT

Now that I know all I needed to know about origins of Shi'a Islam, would you be so kind as to write an at least so elaborate piece on the origins of Judaism?

Origins of Judaism, being the root of all these Abrahamic religions, would be a better starting point to understand the present miseries of the Middle-East and the miseries, these three religions have inflicted on the whole world.


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Thanks Irandokht I clicked

by skatermom (not verified) on Thu Aug 28, 2008 09:28 PM PDT

Thanks Irandokht I clicked on the link. Unfortunately my farsi is rusty. I went to a British school in Tehran and had an Iranian tutor. In other words my farsi is at a 4th grade level. It took me 45 minutes to get thru 1 paragraph. I guess I'll really never know the tenents of shiism. I'll have to just read the posts to get some kind of idea. I went to Amil Imani's website and it looked a little screwy. It wasn't objective at all.


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Dear Anonymous

by darius on Thu Aug 28, 2008 04:01 PM PDT

I thank you for taking time to clarify some of problem Sasanid Dynasty confronted .If you visit Baghdad ,just few miles from down town,lies the ruin of Tisphon , sadly neglected .That is how close the persian lived with people of different culture and language.Despite all those internal struggles within the Persians ,I beleive many Iranian accepted Islam thru contact and business exchange .

But you still did not answer my question .I think you are refusing to

discuss it .What is the reason for nation to involves herself not just the surrounding but as far as China,USA,Russia,Georgia, North and South America . The business of running a country involves many

awfull affairs that we sometimes refuse to accept .

I don't think ,The goernment of Israel do care who runs a country as long as their national security and vital interests are observed by the official of that country .Do you think Hosni Mobarak,is a democratically selected government? I personally beleive he is moreof a threat to the security of Israel than Iran .Do you hear The Israelis hardly be harsh against the man who is adding fuel to the rise of exteremism in Egypt? So it is important for Israel to be on constant watch to see who comes and goes . I do not remember once prior to revolution in Iran,Voice of Israel showed any concern about what might happen in Iran. I do not beleive they had no idea who khomeini was and what he stood for .If one entered the city Najaf prior to 1979,could clearly see that when he entered to the Shrine ,one with loud voice called him,

Al imam azam, al Mehdi mood , al Imam Khomeini .Simply,the great Imam,the promissed Mehdi,the great ImamKhomeini .

I hardly remember the West mentioned who wereThe Mojahedin KHalgh, The Fadaeian. West helped them to organized, gain power,

This is not conspiracy theory ,this is a fact.

No media ever reported that armed wings of the Khomeini followers are the groups that then and know were recognized to be terrorist by America . Well, that ime I lived in Iran ,I never heard anyone but Late Bakhtiar to step out and warn people about the danger. You know what,as soon as he decided to do something, someone ,somewhere realised ,the plan for bringing KHomeini to Power may collapse. Thats when things started to change .WEll You know the rest.

I usually do not look back, but you know what? I am not there any more ,and I may not be able to go back again(unless to accept to live the comfort of my house) but With all these terrible things happening in Iran ,It is the Iranian who are living it and suffering to fight the Mullahs.It is non of elses business .The change will come when every single Iranian recognise that moment .Today sons and daughter of Iran are paying for the sins of their father.Therefore it is their job to do someting about it.If they accept to receive helps form ouside ,soon or late ,there will be anew struggle to free themselves from another form of dictatorship.Therefore for all those Iranian who

think west is offering freedom for Iranian and from the Mullahs,I have a word of caution.This should say it;

Kas Nakharad poshte man ,joz nakhone angoshte man

Do it yourself.Bring the changes yourself,do not leave your country ,stay and fight not with arms and destryoing your livlihood but by educating those who blindly follow a path of the Mullahs to no where. .

You shall overcome.By then Mullah,sepahi or Basiji will be changed and will be a part of change to bring down Officals and doctrine that has brought nothing for Iranian but misery . That may take sometimes ,but I sincerely beleive it happens .

 

 

 

 

 


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Dear dariush

by Kurdish Warrior (not verified) on Thu Aug 28, 2008 02:41 PM PDT

I totally agree with you on that..May it be one day that we all can go back and enjoy our cultural heritage freely without having one group or another forcing their's upon us...That way we all will feel, that Iran belong to all of us no matter our ethnicity, culture or language...


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Dear Kurdish Warrior

by darius on Thu Aug 28, 2008 01:28 PM PDT

I never said Shia is the only faith in Iran and I do not beleive Iran has ever been a devoted Muslim country .Iranian have been more nationalistic than religious .The Shiaism first time was used to moblize Iranian at the time of Safavid by the British to weaken the Uttoman Empire.

What made you beleive that I do not differentiate between Sunnis and Shia ? Islam like any other religion has it ups and down and

unimaginable numbers divisions.No Kurdish warrior,Iran is Iran and it belong to all its inhabitants .I am hoping again to be able to go back to Iran and be in Sanadaj where part of my family(Ardalan) comes from .

I am wishing for Iran to finally divorce itself from Mullahs and become aplace that we celebrate our traditions . Unless you want to

separate yourself from us.lol

Thanks for you enlightment

 

 


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Darius

by Anonymous Observer (not verified) on Thu Aug 28, 2008 01:27 PM PDT

It's a good thing that you raise the issue of Sassanid internal conflict. There were, in fact, serious conflicts in the Persian Court, especially between Yazdgird, III, who was from a Persian Royal dynasty and Rostam Farrokhzad, who was from a Parthian royal dynasty. There were conflicts over military strategy between a very experienced military commander (Rostam) and a very young and inexperienced king (anywhere between 12-17 years old) Yazdgird, III. There was also chaos in the Persian Court following the death of Kobad, the coup of Sharbaz and his short lived reign successive rules of Pourandokht and Azarmidokht (both lasting a year each) and the coronation of half Roman Yazdgird, III, who was brought out of obscurity in Istakhr (the ancient Persian capital) and put in at a very young age (anywhere between 8-12 years old) to take over the reign of the Persian Empire. There were also the exhaustive, ongoing wars with Rome that had devastated the Persian military. It was against the backdrop of this chaos that the Arabs attacked. At that time, the Muslim army consisted mainly of Arabs, a lot of whom were not even Muslims and had come to fight for the promise of war loot.

Again, read Tabari. The war did not take five years because of the terrain. It took that long because of multiple battles, from Qaddisiyeh to Khoozestan to Isfahan, to Rey to Nahavand, etc. In fact, one of the most interesting things about the wars with the Arabs is that none of the Persian officers involved surrendered. They all fought to death (with the exception of Hormozan and Pirooz who were captured in battle). Nowhere in any history book can you find an indication that Persians put down their arms and accepted Islam. There are indications that they entered into peace treaties with Muslims after they lost battles, but at no time they voluntarily surrendered.

For a detailed discussion of the reasons behind the fall of the Sassanid Empire and the events that led to the Arab victory, I suggest Parvaneh Pourshariati's book titled: The Decline and Fall of the Sassanid Empire. Here's an Amazon.com link to it. I recently finished reading it, and it's a great book:

//www.amazon.com/Decline-Fall-Sasanian-Empire...

As far as Judaism is concerned, I said what I had to say on the subject and have nothing more to add. As far conspiracy theories about them wanting to overthrow the Shah, I have seen no proof of that, and it seems as if it would be against Israel's interest to do so. Again, this site is full of Israel conspiracy theories. Frankly, I have a tough time believing any of it.


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Dear Anonymous

by darius on Thu Aug 28, 2008 01:01 PM PDT

I do have some basic knowledge of my birth place . I do know, it took Muslims "not only the Arabs but combination of different nationalities" to defeat Persian Empire .After all we know what was the driven force behind their success being a true beleiver to their cause .I am sure one should have expected that it takes more than 5 yrs to finish a country with years battling the Romans . I am not proud of what happened to our ancestors but I am sure the social structure of Sasanid Empire had somehow contributed to the victory of an army of zelaot beleiver of Islam .If your theory is correct at certain point of their invasion due to terrains and difficulties invaders faced ,the Persian should have stopped them .That didn't happen either ,did it?

Just for The Muslim forces to cross the snow covered mountain and passes of western Iran ,could have provided the time for Iranian forces to mobilize.That didn't happened either. Don't you think there was another reason for it ?The YazgerdIII was not the only warrior to defend the land,there were others as you suggest form all over .The shear of experience and nationalism could have stopped an army

zealot Muslim. I Know we want tobe proud Iranians but as you try to envoy is not good to be biased ,we should accept the short coming of our forefatheres.

 

 

I know about the Judaism , but knowing the notion that the Jewish are the chosen people of God ,and the given promise ,wasn't that enough force to expand and populate themselves?Based on historical facts the jewish communities always enjoyed the advantage of having people who mentally superceded the otheres?

One other thing, I do not support any one who insult and question

any one religion or nationality .As you sayi t very nicely this has tobe stopped not only for the Jews but forevery one .

 

I do beleive both sides in the conflict are guilty of interfering in each other business . Somehow you advocating that the Govenment of Israel as a mtter of national security has no interest in the region?Of course it is non of Iranian business to intefere with th Palestinian and Israelis conflict or else where.

Do you verify this news that Israels Forces and secret services are

covertly working within regions that matter to Iran and Iranian Unity?

I remember vividly that The Israel had very much confrontational attitude toward Shah .For god sakes we were the only country in the region who had an embassy in Israel. Voice Of Israel very actively relayed many information and news that helped demoralized the Iranian Army,Air Force and Navy.I know for sure before the whisper of revolutin can be heard, the Jewish Agency very much encouraging Iranian Jews to immigrate to Israel.Why ? The Iranian Jew lived comfortably andwere prosperous in Iran. Israel shouldn't really have to care about Iran even with lots of historical bonds.There is no reason for Israel to see countries around it to become stable ,democratic and powerful.This is a fact ,why should they care.My question is would Israel will listen to America if its national security interest bein g compromised? My answer is no .The first mandate for Israel is Israel ,that sound fair and sound.Does practicing the same

mandate by any other nations sounds fair?

I hope you understand that for years to come until a miracle happens and peace prevail, Israel and many would practice the strategy that will make her Unequal and always at the larger side

of the equation.

Lets all work for peace and be just and humble toward each other

 

 

 

 

 


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To dariush, Sadaia_qesa

by Kurdish Warrior (not verified) on Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:27 PM PDT

Dear dariush,

As much I can't stand the religious people, specifically the ones in Muslim world I need to do an adj..
All Iranians are not Shia...Kurds, Balouch and Arab Iranians are not Shia but Sunni. However as for Kurds we don't believe in any of that whether be Mahdi, Ali or Abubakr. People who believe in those need to do reality check...There are only 5 recognized prophets and that’s all there is to it...
Ps respect to Zoroaster as well...

As for Sadaia_qesa

What the hell has Palestine to do with this subj...Stop being ignorant racist and get help...You and your anti Semitic view is ab ridiculous...again get help my friend..


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More cheap propaganda

by Anonymous-today (not verified) on Thu Aug 28, 2008 12:12 PM PDT

Not that anyone by now expects corroboration and reasonable articulation from you, but when you come on like some world scholar and opine that "Examination of the vast Islamic literature shows that the present sect of Shi’a Islam has evolved from a mix of cultural...", one would logically expect some sources mentioned. That's a big fat claim you're making; instead what we find is a bunch of links to Wikipedia. . None of what you have mentioned here is revelatory or new. Any average Shi'a knows all of this. Besides, all religions are based on faith not logic. The Shi'a's belief in a Messiah isn't any more or less logical that the Jews or Christians belief in Christ (his first or second coming) and you can see how debunking the myth of a Messiah has stopped the fiction that the Jews and Christians have deluded themselves with!!!! So your conclusion: "Debunking the belief in the Hidden Imam and his return is pivotal to the falsifying of Shiism and helping the long-deluded Muslims in abandoning a fiction that has ruled and ruined their lives for far too long" means squat, dude. I’m not a believer but this is more of your usual cheap propaganda.


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Love how people here have everything figured out

by Ali Sefati (not verified) on Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:31 AM PDT

I am really impressed how people on this site have everything figured out! Specially old religions such as Islam and Zoroastrianism .

In my humble opinion, when it all comes down to it, faith is blind. People follow it either because of their parents and cultures or for some spiritual reasons. Of course then it becomes a good tool to use to control masses and rule people.

Now trying to go back thousands of years writing and commenting about these religions with this level of certainty either makes one a brilliant person or ignorant.

I let you decide that.


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Darius and Sadaia_Qesa

by Anonymous Observer (not verified) on Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:26 AM PDT

Darius,

I do not have the answer to all of your questions, but I do to a couple of them. As far as whether or not Persians accepted Islam or if it was forced upon them, the account of Muslim Arab historians is unanimous. Iranians fought the invading Muslim forces every step of the way. That is why it took the Arabs almost five years to get from Qaddisiyyeh to Nahavand, where the final battle took place. In fact, Persians from all over Persia would rush to each other's help (from Kurdistan to Isfahan for instance) to confront the invading Muslims. I suggest Tabari's book, Conquest of Iran for more information. His account of the battles in very detailed, and even though he was an Iranian, all of his sources are Arabs. Other Muslim authors such as Al-Waqedi and Al-Bulladhuri mention the same accounts. Here's a link to Tabari's book from Amazon:

//www.amazon.com/History-Al-Tabari-Conquest-D...

It's a great book and is relatively inexpensive.

As far as why Judaism did not spread as fast, there are several factors. The first one is that the Jews never had the military power to impose their religion upon others. The second reason is that unlike Christianity and Islam, Judaism is not proselytizing religion.

Sadaia_Qesa:

What is wrong with you? Why are you so such an anti-Semite? What is this obsession that you have with Israel? Are you an Arab? Aside from the recent political conflict that has been created with Israel by Iran itself and the past 30 years of "marg bar Israel" and arming and funding groups that are hell bent upon destroying Israel, what has Israel done to us? Why do we have to be the "Kaseyeh As Ash Daghtar" in the Palestinian / Israeli conflict? The websites that you cite are all racist, white supremacist anti-Semitic sites. Do you really want people to believe this garbage? Arabs are not child molesters? Here, read a story about them killing and raping their imported maids, at the rate of once a week in Lebanon:

//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7582410.stm

And this is from a reputable news source, not some Nazi website. Do you know how many pregnant and raped maids return to South Asia from Arab Gulf states? here's a link from another reputable site, Human Rights Watch:

//www.hrw.org/about/projects/womrep/General-1...

Stop this racist, anti-Semitic, vile nonsense that you pollute this site with on regular basis. I hope that the moderators on this site delete this racist nonsense and prevent them from being posted. Mr. Javid, articles from white supremacist sites are just as vile and disturbing as "fohsh" on this site. They are insulting to any decent human being. I ask that you do not allow this racist nonsense to be published on your site. These racists say the same things about us Iranians as they do about Jews. They would deport or kill all of us if they could also. here's an example of them killing a young Arab boy in England recently.

//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/sussex/...

This racist nonsense must stop. It demonizes and advocates violence against certain ethnic groups, including Iranians. Please stop Mr./ Ms./ Sadaia_Qesa from advertising the vile trash of these racist sites.


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IRANdokht

Dear SkaterMom

by IRANdokht on Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:12 AM PDT

I found you a link for all you ever wanted to know and then some:

//www.shia-online.ir/

This website will serve multiple purposes, not only it's full of news, interviews, pictures and quotes, it also serves as a great comic relief

just read

//www.shia-online.ir/article.asp?id=2569&cat=...

 

(be gholeh doostemoon ogh!)

 

IRANdokht


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It sounds like a crazy

by darius on Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:58 AM PDT

I am not a scholar,studied a bit of religion to educate myslef.One

reason for Iranina to convert to islam ,I am using muslims because they were not all Arabs, was due to conversion of some Iranian who followed the Zoroastrian faith .This was because Persia was a castic society and there was no opportunity for ordinary man to promote themselves .Thus those Iranian who lived within vicinity of the Islam growing popularity and activism  ,accepted the faith and later helped the Muslims to conquer Persia easily .

There is not any reilable source to explain the facts .Some writing are close to the truth and some are simply glorificarion to fool the followers.

Most of the books were written many years later and there in no way to go back that far specially when comes to understand the business ofGod.

I am not sure but I know after conquering Persia,one of the Iranian king daughter was taken as a bride to Ali's Family .That could be a reason why Iranian chose to become Shia ,after all if we beleive they were forcedto become a convert ,why should they chose side.

I think the marriage somehow made them to pick a side . 

Despie all the negative thingsabout Islam and possibly using force to cover people,it appears Islam at one point had some social attraction and made the growth possible .

How could we prove this things,we are still struggling to comb thru

some of recent events and can not find the truth .This alone should

tell us to tolerate other faith,belief and just live in peace.

Cheers

 

 


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Past is past but...

by Anonymous Farshad (not verified) on Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:45 AM PDT

Well, even if we respect the religion that the prophet brought, the fact remains that he is dead and 1.2 B moslims speculate on what he had in mind. But...

In shia islam, there is the principal of "hakamiat" in the absence of 12th emam. If one is truly an orthodox follower of shia islam, rather than a self-invented version of it, one should accept that shia islam is legally defined by ayatollahs in the absense of 12th emam. In other words, islam as has been presented to us in the past 30 years, is true shia islam, whether one likes it or not. Note than at the peak of mass murders by ayatollah khomeini, not even one other ayatollah forcefully rejected his version of islam, maybe out of cowardness but mainly becuase it was khomeini's edicts that 'defined' shia islam according to shia islam, not the other way around. Once this is "well" understood, every individual's job become a simple choice between shia islam and morality. Should I remain a shia moslim and accept all the killings and looting of wealth of a country to remain faithful to my religion or should I side with my morality and reject this religion of murder and thievery. Should I accept all the unprecedented corruption of various sorts simply because it "is" shia islam or not.

Every iranian should make such a choice rather than trying to find excuses to evade what has happened to millions of iranians in the past 30 years is not islam. All the killings and corruptions and looting are "shia islam" according to the hard principals of shia islam as ayatollahs are entitled to their revision of islam as they please if one is truly a shia moslim.


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I have this question for

by darius on Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:31 AM PDT

I have this question for you Amil.

1-Are you doing scholarly report ?

2-Are you writing this article to defend a certain group or faith,that you belong to?

3-Are you a patriot or just trying to gain ground for certain politics that you follow?

4-Your article does not mention why Iranian became Muslim?Did Iranian convert to islam by force ?Had any Iranian had converted fromZoroastrian faith to Islam before the Arab Muslim invade Persians?

5-Did Iranian converts collaborated with the Muslim to make the Arabsvictorious?

6-Can you explain why Iranian chose to be Shia and the Follower of Ali's family?

 

 

7-How could you rely on some written statement by some Muslim that you do not even beleive they were honest?

8- Could you explain why Christianty and Islam grew when Judaism struggled to survive and face the extinction?

You answer with Islam being forced upon people is not a satisfactory answer that it partially true .Could you answer why Mongul decided to become Muslims? 'After all they came in contact with Christian ( religion of love ) and Judaism ( the progressive ).

9-What are you proposing ? You are not offering any alternative?

Tell us what to become/Jewish,Christian,Zoarostrian ,...etc .

10-I have mentioned this once,I I mention it agian . If you are a true beleiver ,why do you  stay away from action .I am not advocating violence, but have you ever considered to go back to Iran and do what is right?The last time they trusted,Wegave them Khomeini,why should they trust us again? What makes you

so confident ?

11-You and I are asking from ordinary Iranian with no financial means,family and obligation to do all kind of crazy stuff to overthrow the Fucking,bastard Mullahs .Will you go to Iran and become an activist?

12-Tell us what you beleive in ?What is your faith? Could say that

outloud and practice what you advocating,honesty ,honor ,courage?

Or you prefer to keep it Private?(thats my guess)

 

 


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how about debunking all religions?

by debunked (not verified) on Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:15 AM PDT

Judism, Christianity and Islam all suck.


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default

AMIL IS RIGHT

by desperate moslem (not verified) on Thu Aug 28, 2008 09:46 AM PDT

i need some proof that eleven imam had a child.i need to see some hard evidence,otherwise it's just some hoces poces,and you have NO VALID argument.

vasalam nameh tamam.


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Jahanshah Rashidian

Many False Messiahs

by Jahanshah Rashidian on Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:22 AM PDT

In a mytho-maniac and naive culture of belief, the frustrated wait for a messiah. In Semitic religions , in confabulated personage of legends--even Chengis Khan will return as a messiah.

In some modern sects, we see Messiahs too.
Moses David was one of these modern ones who was the "reappeared" Jesus, in 60s. He just incarnated both Moses and Jesus in one entity for his followers in USA.

Messiah or Mahdi by Shiites and in a lesser importance by Sunnites,  remains in a category of myths, and not to forget all sacrificial rituals, jihads, Crusade wars and plights that the believers continue to face.

 


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Sadaia_qesa

NO fly Zone ???? --Sanitized --

by Sadaia_qesa on Thu Aug 28, 2008 10:06 AM PDT

 

 

//shahnameh.podomatic.com/player/web/2007-01-04T15_47_00-08_00

 

 

A feature Article I had posted earlier was deleted. So I post the following (A Partial  <<Sanitized >> Listing bellow, for your viewing pleasure) .

 

----ISRAEL- Psychopath’s breeding ground -----

 

A society that was built to feed on innocent Palestinians has started to feed on its own:

Sexual molestation of minors is up 16% in Israel.

70-year-old bible teacher suspected of child molestation in synagogue.

 

 

 Why Pigs can not fly?  

It is in there genes!

Ariel Sharon the farmer Israeli Prime Minister in a CNN interview when asked about the war and all the killings, he responded by recalling a childhood event. He explained as a child while he was busy building (a barn) with his father, he was attacked by swarm of bees. He recalled his father’s words, telling him not to stop his work becaus the of insects. He concluded by stating that there were nothing but insects trying to stop him.

Ariel Sharon was equating Palestinians to insects.

It is difficult to come to terms with this kind of mind set because most ordinary people have no reference to draw on.

Thus, we ought to review historical data to draw on past experience and devise new solutions. For instance with advent of genetic it has become clear that there are genetic bases for higher rate of hereditary disease in certain populations than others. Though, this was already known from historical data on hand.

Do you ever wonder, how it is humanly possible for some one to view other human beings as nothing but mere insects or simply as feeds to be consumed?
 
"Imagine - if you can - not having a conscience, none at all, no feelings of guilt or remorse no matter what you do, no limiting sense of concern for the well-being of strangers, friends, or even family members. Imagine no struggles with shame, not a single one in your whole life, no matter what kind of selfish, lazy, harmful, or immoral action you had taken. And pretend that the concept of responsibility is unknown to you, except as a burden others seem to accept without question, like gullible fools.
Now add to this strange fantasy the ability to conceal from other people that your psychological makeup is radically different from theirs. Since everyone simply assumes that conscience is universal among human beings, hiding the fact that you are conscience-free is nearly effortless.
You are not held back from any of your desires by guilt or shame, and you are never confronted by others for your cold-bloodedness. The ice water in your veins is so bizarre, so completely outside of their personal experience that they seldom even guess at your condition. In other words, you are completely free of internal restraints, and your unhampered liberty to do just as you please, with no pangs of conscience, is conveniently invisible to the world. You can do anything at all, and still your strange advantage over the majority of people, who are kept in line by their consciences, will most likely remain undiscovered. How will you live your life? What will you do with your huge and secret advantage, and with the corresponding handicap of other people (conscience)? "
[2] Will you kill and displace millions of Palestinians for their land?Will you kill millions of Iraqis for their oil? There is an organized criminal gang within the world Jewry that has helped create the state of Israel and it means to have a strong and heavy hand in the Middle East. This virulent offshoot has always been there through out Jewish history. There are many scholars who are trying to expose this group and a great deal of work has already been done.
 
We have to learn how they think and how they act to avoid another Iraq war.  

The world must know “that anti-Semitism is used as psychological warfare designed to disarm opposition to an insidious tyranny by portraying it as racist”.

THE PSYCHOPATH - The Mask of Sanity

 


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amirkabear4u

2 questions

by amirkabear4u on Thu Aug 28, 2008 08:55 AM PDT

Reading only a few lines and knowing your usual EXTRAORDINARY comments I have two questions. I bet you never answer the first one correctly; 

1- Just as a matter of interest what is your religion?

2- By any chance are you related to Ahmadinejad?

It seems you and Ahmadinejad are twin. Do you know why? You both have your brain filled with rubbish. At least if you want to express yourself make sure your information is correct. But then it maybe just because you have Islamophobia.


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It sounds like a crazy

by skatermom (not verified) on Thu Aug 28, 2008 08:52 AM PDT

It sounds like a crazy Grimm's brothers fairy tale. I'm shocked that this faith has millions of adherents. Does the early story have any writings to corroborate or was this just passed down as oral tradition? Do you also know what year the contemporary writings took place that explained the additional sects? Why then if Ali had brutalized the Persians did the Persians become his devotees? Sorry for all the questions. May be you can just refer me to a site that would explain. This was very interesting.


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I am fine

by The lost Imam (not verified) on Thu Aug 28, 2008 08:01 AM PDT

thanks for the biographical presentation. I want all to know that I am fine and now live in Las Vegas. I switch from hotel to hotel. They provided me with the best here, my own valet, butler and masseur, and that is normal considering I am a high flier.


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