If you were a Jew

If you were a Jew
by AmirAshkan Pishroo
05-Oct-2008
 

If you were a Jew in the time of Holocaust, Richrd Rorty argues, your chances of being helped by your kind neighbors were greater if you lived in Denmark or Italy than if you lived in Belgium.

Rorty warns us how not to explain this difference: “A common way of describing this difference is by saying that many Danes and Italians showed a sense of human solidarity which many Belgians lacked,” Rorty (1984).

To say that Belgians lacked a sense of human solidarity is bound to be question-begging: But why did Belgians,who watched the Gestapo drag their Jewish neighbors away, fail to show such a human solidarity?

According to Rorty the answer doesn’t lie in such a terms as “inhumanity,” or “hardness of heart,” or “lack of sense of human solidarity,” but because the Belgians didn’t identify themselves with the Jews, one way or the other.

Take, for example, those Danes and those Italians:“Did they say, about their Jewish neighbors, that they deserved to be saved because they were fellow human beings? Perhaps sometimes they did, but surely they would usually, if queried, have used some parochial terms to explain why they were taking risks to protect a given Jew–for example, that this particular Jew was a fellow Milanese, or fellow Jutlander, or a fellow member of the same union or profession, or a fellow bocce player, or a fellow parent of small children,” Rorty.

But for Belgians, Jews rarely fell under those identifications. There are detailed historicosociological explanations for the relative infrequency among Belgians of fellowship-inspiring descriptions under which Jews could fall.

Simply put, there were lesser interactions and integrations between Belgians and Jews in the period when the trains were running to Auschwitz.

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Darius Kadivar

Zion its about Honesty ...

by Darius Kadivar on

Zion its not about being strange or contradictory. The TRUTH never lies and only those who fear the truth should be critisized. Any honest historian could NEVER refute the reality of the Holocaust but you know that historical revisionism exists in every country including Isreal. Some of your most extreme Orthodox jews participated the the Holocaust Conference in Tehran along with members of the KKK or neo nazi revisionists.

Ultimately Israel is responsible to have given Ahmadinejad the pretext to question your objectivity because your political leaders behaved like kids quarreling in the school yard with a bully. Instead of playing it cool you started crying and biting instead of seeking a un hypocritical approach to the issue.

After all why isn't Israel shocked by the Austrians who elected a neo nazi to power ?

France has its French Far Right with Jean Marie Le Pen and they were defeated and reduced to oblivion thanks to Sarkozy's smart move in dealing with the issue of racism but also immigration. Not that it has solved all the problems and I am not a Sarkozist since I even did not vote for him, but I have to admit he handled the situation the way no one of your politicians have with the Palestinians or other minorities. Now because of your clumsy way of handling Ahmadinejad we Iranians have to deal with an un necessary intellectual and ideological debate for which we had already all the answers and for which we never even suspected the reality of the Holocaust. How are we to respond to younger generations on a reality that they may be questioning because of the irresponsible behavior of their elected president ? A president who NEVER mentioned this in his political campaign, unlike lets say Hitler who won the elections democratically in 1933 in Germany based on his own racist program and full awareness by Germans ( including Jews) who voted for him for his racist program.

One can also critisize the way the Ethiopian Jews were treated in Israel.

I recommend you to see this movie:

Va,Vis et Deviens

watch the Trailer:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnaXLjH-XW8

better video quality but in German:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMzEvuhmgmU&feature=related

Racism IS LA BETE IMMONDE aka the HORRIBLE BEAST which lives in all of us at different levels but needs to be contained and moderated.

If you Israelians attack Iran you will simply be making the mistake of a novice in politics instead of a master chess player. Israel should insist and support Iran's struggling civil society instead of spreading the same nonesense about Iranians being anti semite. Why don't you distinguish the regime and the people for God's Sake ?

Best,

DK

 

 


Darius Kadivar

FYI/IRANIANS MOURN PAUL NEWMAN

by Darius Kadivar on


Zion

LOL

by Zion on

Samsam, that was a good one. ;-)


default

Holocaust industry is in crisis, the so called survivors have

by Jaided (not verified) on

turned into a bunch greedy zionists who are pushing the their wheaping boy aka United States to create war and destruction in the Middle East. The "naneh man gharibam" game has lost its effect. Jews are ruling the world and still want more.

The media, Hollywood, financial markets, both houses of the congress, the presidents of USA, Britan, and Johnny Come Lately, France are under their control and you expect us to feel sorry for them? Are you kidding us? The Elders of Zion Theory is now a reality.

Pushing holocaust pictures, movies, books, PBS series, marathon telecast, etc etc is not going to change this new reality. People of the world consider Jews as white people who are exploiting the rest of the human race.


samsam1111

Justin (Nasro-din) & Afshar(Afsar-din) !!

by samsam1111 on

 

Help  Bahareh (Zaynab), She wants Juice!! Help ur Arab sister from Ghom . Once done help each other.


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question

by John The Baptist (not verified) on

I asked the same question in Bahahis' blog as if there is a Messiah in that religion and I would like to ask any knowledgeable Jewish person here, if there is a returning force in Judaism that someday will come back and do what Christian Messiah is supposed to do? What is his name?


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To: Justin

by Former Yezghel (not verified) on

I hear you and you make sense and I also want to add that I would also learn that enough is enough and I do not need to produce three movies every year and give it Oscar to force the world to be reminded in three movies every year that Jews were also a victim in WWII. Where is an ounce of compassions for the Japanese, the only and true victims of WWII?


default

To Bijan M A

by non-pissing Christian (not verified) on

you expressed yourself in a way that most of the world see Israel express itself:

"I feel blessed that I don’t have to take the crap of islamo-fascism from my neighbor and will piss in his face if he tries to force it on me."

At the end of the day you are nothing more than a "pisser" with no element of humanity. You think you are blessed but guess what, the entire world is blessed but they do not piss on each other thinking "I am a chosen pisser"...

Go change your attitude as you are not blessed at all, you are just another angry Jew begging for attention...


Bijan A M

To Justin: I am a jew and…..

by Bijan A M on

I have learned from the history and from the agony and discrimination inflicted on me (or my ancestors). I have converted all the hate and viciousness, which tormented me so much, into something positive. I have treated others with compassion and justice.

I have loved my neighbors and feel blessed to have a state to protect me and my family. I feel blessed that I don’t have to take the crap of islamo-fascism from my neighbor and will piss in his face if he tries to force it on me. I am proud to be born to a jewish family even if I don’t practice Judaism day-to-day. I don’t know what the intent of your post is, but I support the state of Israel for her existence in peace and protection of me and my family.  No-one shall ever discriminate against me just because I was born a jew……  


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Juice

by Bahareh (not verified) on

Juice are not the nicest people I know and we should stop talking about them. They own enough media and access to all sort of tools, including here at the iranian.com
I agree with some others to say that they have not learned their lesson and they are selfish and i add that they are racist.
I am not talking about Iranian Kalimi, they are great.


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haha

by Afhsar (not verified) on

I love the girl with a pink lip. hahaha
Long live Belgium


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Who gives a damn

by XerXes (not verified) on

Time is gone, they have not learned themselves and who cares about selfish people. Let them be. Who cares? Talk about humanity not a certain group that thinks is so freaking special.


Zion

Darius Kadivar

by Zion on

Thanks for the videos. I have to say, you are one strange man with quite paradoxical views.


Darius Kadivar

For Ahmadinejad's education ...

by Darius Kadivar on

A powerful passage in the reading of Ann Frank with photos of her and her family and the victims of the Anti Jewish laws.

THIS VIDEO HAS BEEN SHOWN IN MANY SCHOOLS AROUND THE WORLD. IT WAS MADE BY UBUNTUBIRD AND IT'S THE ORIGINAL ONE 

And another educational cartoon about the reality of the holocaust and the survivors


Darius Kadivar

FYI/The ONLY Existing Footage of Anne Frank

by Darius Kadivar on


  The only known video footage of Anne Frank, seen from the window of her Amsterdam home watching a wedding procession.

Darius Kadivar

I remember Anne Frank

by Darius Kadivar on

I recall seeing many, many shows on Iranian TV before the Revolution about the Horrors of the Holocaust and educating people about the realities of WWII. One being an interview of Ann Frank's father speaking about his daughter's diaries. I never encountered any signs of anti semitism amongst Iranians before the revolution. As a matter of fact in my elder brothers class they even performed the play based on Ann Frank's book as a school live performance.

See Pahlavi Coin with Jewish sign

And Jews Participating in the Constitutional Revolution

And pictures of other Minorities in Iran

Also Watch interview of Ann Frank's father Otto:

The Play based on the book:

Trailer of one of the movie's made on Ann 's family tragedy


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If I were a Jew,

by Justin (not verified) on

I would have learned from the history and from the agony and discrimination inflicted on me (or my ancestors). I would have learned from mistakes of those who caused so much pain for so long. I would have converted all the hate and viciousness, which tormented me so much, into something positive. I would have learned and treated others with compassion and justice. I would have loved my neighbors, so the history would not repeat itself.


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Regarding the nazis

by Jamshid Niavarani (not verified) on

The President of Iran doesn't question the killing of Jewish people during WW2. He says the result of such action should force Germany to give up land. As for the Beligic people, I knew they were anti-semetic. I once told a Belgic guy that 6 million innocent Jewish people died at the hands of Germans during WW2. The Beligic gay responded, "Good ridddens to bad rubbish".


Bijan A M

Faribors.....

by Bijan A M on

I rarely use this tone.. but I can't control myself. Why don't you shut-up and stop embaressing yourself. What kind of jibberish nonsense are you talking about?.... Do you even understand your own writing?....

you don't have to chime in on every subject if you don't know anything about it or don't know how to express it.

You have nothing to identify with me as  your jewish neighbor. So, stop spewing garbage....  


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Anti-Semitism is not Persian .........

by Faribors Maleknasri M.D. (not verified) on

.......and is unknown in the Islamic Republic of Iran.
Proof: each 150.000 Iranians have One menber in the MAJLE SSE SHORA YE ESLAMI. 20.000 Jews - so many jews live there today. As a religious minority they have One as their own jewish Delegate in Majless. This fact speaks against the idea Iranians were or even practice anti-semitism.
repetedly i have proposed the Iranians in different part of the world better try to correcting the life conditions in their next area. better report about unbills which are happening day by day in the country they have immigrated. For example it were interessting to know how much money from germany is transfered to the United states recenly to prevent further economical damages to the banks? And how do germans think about this fact? How about foreign politics of germany since the great coalition? Likewise question could be discussed well by Irano-Germans. The subjects of daily life of honorable Iranian nation who live in Iran and the daily Political pratics of the Government of the Islamic republic of Iran should better be put asaid. since those Iranian who live for good and a long time in abroad and posess even Identity papers of their host country are just not prepared to get the given analyses. Of course so far that the given analyses are authentical and worth while being read.
Iranians and their islamic republic has not denyed the holocaust. Only the westerns insist on this. What is their own construct. When a Iranian as a imigrant repeats what the westerns have constructed....well these individuals can only be an agent of the strangers who want to damage the Iranians. Now - so I mean - if theses individuals get paid for their "Work" it should be all right. Unfortunately most of them are only NOKAR E BI JIR E O MAVAJEB. Greeting


Jahanshah Rashidian

Anti-Semitism is not Persian

by Jahanshah Rashidian on

At the time, IRI’s officials deny Holocaust and resent the attention being paid to the genocide between 1938 and 1945 during which 6 million Jews were murdered by the Nazi, Iranian people are themselves victims of a Holocaust denier right-wing regime or, better said, an Islamo-fascist regime.

Anti- Semitism in Europe has vestiges of the historical background. Some leftovers of Nazi, racist and nationalist ideologies In Germany are for example anti-Semite: Jewish cemeteries and Holocaust memorials, and Jewish places are sometimes defaced by them. Right-wing elements would paint on gravestones "Heil Hitler" or "Crap on the six million lie".

For political outlets, many EU citizens classify Israel, along with Mullahs’ Iran as one the world's greatest threat to peace. This a pure political view. Some righ-wing extremists water down Holocaust, but because of relatively higher level of public awareness, no one can deny it. They  justify the horrible crimes that have factually happened in Europe.

However, no Iranian with a right mind would accept anti-Semitism as an Iranian problem because Iran has never been involved in it. Anti-Semitism among Christians and and Jews may stem from a misconception of the the history, but has nothing to do with Persian history which has done for Western a part of their civilisation and today’s Human Rights.

Can IRI’s officials realise that their anti-Semitism does not impact what Iranian people think or benfit? The answer is, NO And the reason for this aberrant "no" explains the nature of any right-wing extremism, including Islamism. Anti-Semitism is not a human, moral, and logical doctrine. So, it is not a Persian legacy, but one of the flaws of the IRI. No wonder any pro IRI is, in a degree, an anti-Semite.


Zion

Very interesting

by Zion on

Thanks.

The Danes especially were great. Back in the time of previous fascists, when they invaded Denmark and ordered all Jews to wear badges of Stars of David, all Danish citizens came out the next day with a Star of David, including their king.
They still are great. Highest level of education in the world, and one of the centers where the current fight for freedom of speech against the Nazis of our time is being vigorously fought today.