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Anywhere but Israel, Please...
29-Dec-2007
I don't blame them. I would NEVER want to live in a Nazi State of Israel. Good that many westerners agree: Jerusalem & Babylon / Despite benefits, few Iranian Jews want to live here
By Anshel Pfeffer
It should have been a fantastic public relations coup for the Jewish Agency. Dozens of reporters, photographers and camera crews were on hand to chronicle their latest operation, easily outnumbering the 40 new immigrants from Iran and the family members awaiting them.
So eager were the assembled forces of the media for this story that no one was even thinking of arguing with the censorship over the restrictions, don't show their faces, no full names and all details about their route from Persia to Zion to be left out. And still, for at least one senior agency official, this was a hollow victory. When it was all over, and the Iranians were being bundled off to the buses about to take them to an absorption center in Be'er Sheva, he smiled bitterly and said, "we offered them everything possible and still we got such a pitiful number."
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The official press release, of course, told a different story. "Immigration from Iran tripled this year," was the message, statistically correct, since in 2006 only 65 arrived and this year we're up to a couple of hundred. But how can that compare to the estimated 28,000 Jews still living in Iran? It would be more accurate to say that over 99 percent of Persian Jews still prefer to remain under the rule of the Ayatollahs and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad than to come to live in the democratic Jewish homeland.
Surprisingly enough, there are few real restrictions on immigration from Iran. It's relatively simple, traveling through a third country. And to make it even easier, the agency pays for potential Iranian immigrants to come to Israel and see it for themselves before taking the plunge.
If that's not enough, three foundations stumped up enough money to give each $10,000. Which means that, together with the absorption basket of government benefits given to all new immigrants, a family of six can arrive here from Iran with a sizable sum to start off their new lives. So why aren't they coming?
The answers you hear vary. There's the financial aspect of course. Most of the Jews living in Iran are middle-class, shopowners and businessmen, with relatively comfortable and stable lives. But those who choose to leave have trouble selling their property and, even if they succeed, the weakness of the Rial means that even those who are wealthy manage to leave with less than $50,000. Their chances of reaching a similar level of affluence in Israel are low.
Not that life in the Islamic Republic is a picnic for anyone, especially not Jews. Jewish schools are forbidden, teaching Hebrew is prohibited, Jewish women are subjected to the same draconian modesty laws forced on their Muslim counterparts, while Jewish conscripts to the army are routinely humiliated and trusted only with lowly, menial tasks. Persecution is usually low-key.
Yes, they do live under the fear of reprisals and pogroms, but what we so easily forget is that this is one of the oldest Jewish communities in the world, existing for almost three millennia, since the time of the First Temple. Khomeini's revolution took place only 28 years ago, and there is always the hope that things might get better in the next few years. The older generation still have very clear memories of the time when 100,000 Jews lived under the rather benign despotism of the Shah.
The prospect of good times just around the corner is enough for most of them to prefer the current precarious situation to a journey into the unknown.
Besides, all these years of incessant virulent anti-Israel propaganda have taken their toll, even on the Jews; they might not see the state as the "little Satan" (the U.S. is, of course, the "big Satan"), but they still view Israel with a great degree of suspicion.
The dirty secret is, that, given the choice, many of those prepared to consider leaving wouldn't come to Israel since the thriving Iranian community in Los Angeles is much more attractive. Dozens of Iranian Jews are currently waiting in Vienna for green cards, or better than that, official UN refugee status, allowing them to live wherever they wish in the West.
It might seem crazy to us, their living like this, on the edge of a volcano about to explode. With the imminent threat of military confrontation with the U.S. or Israel, perhaps even a nuclear war, the situation is reminiscent of the Jews of Germany in the 1930s, but to Iran's Jews, Israel seems just as much a dangerous war zone, if not more so. And who can blame them?
Our incredulity over the willingness of the Jews of Iran to remain there has no place, as it is Israel that seems to be losing its appeal to the Jews. Of an estimated 7 or 8 million Jews living outside Israel, only about a quarter of a percent immigrated in 2007.
Jews still remain a mobile nation, but chances are that if they're planning a move, it will be to another Diaspora outpost.
The vast majority of Jews who left South Africa in the 13 years since the African National Congress came to power hopped over to Australia, one of the few major communities growing in the last decade.
Predictions of a major wave of immigration from France, in the wake of Islamist anti-Semitism, have largely failed to materialize. So actually, the Iranians have a higher proportion of immigration to Israel than most Diaspora communities.
There isn't one clear reason. Immigration figures are going down despite a thriving Israeli economy which has never been stronger. And it's pointless blaming the Second Lebanon War, as the downward trend started long before it broke out.
Practically, the only country from which immigration is still strong is Ethiopia, where the Falashmura are fighting the government's decision to stop bringing them in six months. Almost all Jews in just about every country outside the third-world seem to think that life in the Promised Land is simply too difficult to contemplate seriously. Israel's real image problem is not with the international media, but with the world's Jews, who just seem to prefer loving it from afar.
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Mr. Kourosh Sassanian Are you from Mars.?!!
by East (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 10:43 PM PSTFirst of all who do you think you are to give 70,000,000 Iranians three options.Don't tell me THEY DON'T KNOW BETTER and YOU are the ONLY person that KNOWS?As I said it is going on for centuries,since Sasanian and Safavieh,if people wanted a change,believe it or not they could do it before you,they don't need your insult,aggressive and impolite way.
Second of all do you want to see cross and then believe what's going on,Have you forgotten 8 year war,who motive Saddam and supported and bomb our land and killed our people with CHEMICAL weapons?! THE QUESTION IS WHO GAVE THEM the equipments and supplies?
Who shot down our passenger PLANE in PERSIAN GULF in 1988 in our land international sky?.most of them were new brides and children,A MILITARY guy with military experience, FOR sure can recognize a passenger plane from a Jet .
They actually tried to invaded our country by their puppet Saddam(OF COURSE I'm talking about different land,NOT your country).
When was your last time you checked, Go and check more,the government of Israel controls the government of U.S.
Israel made them to use their Power and influence and False information in the UNITED NATION to get and label any Country that does not agree with some of their policy.
But if They DID or DO Anything AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW even CLUSTER BOMB they used last year on Lebanon(We all know using this BOMB STOP FOR MANY YEARS and IT was AGAINST INTERNATIONAL LAW to USE it AGAINST HUMANS but THE ISRAEL used it)NO ONE COULD DO anything,because U.S VETO will NEVER STOP and continue until now! They must be some of the reason the crises in the Middle East.That is the fact,you want to accept it or no, WHO REALLY CARES.People like you,BELIEVE what they WANT to BELIEVE.
IRAN didn't attack any country in past 200 years,but in past almost 60 years we know how many countries Israel Attacked and Occupied and Killed innocent people.I was right YOU DON'T DARE to say anything against Christian and Jews,as you said you have many Jews friends,DO YOU HAVE ANY FRIEND who is a Muslim BUT ACTUALLY who is not religious and only carry a Muslim name?YOU must be a Jew or a Christian! I must mention,I'm not against any of them.
I am sure everything I explained It is VERY Complicated for you to Understand it.
I have some words for you,Your Dumbness,your Blindness,your Vulgar Language,your ignorance and YOU !!! I don't mean a Teddy Bear! IS THAT BAD ENOUGH! (I used your aggressive words)
I don't answer your dumb and nonsense comments any more.Coward
Happy New Year Zion and Everyone
by Rosie T. on Mon Dec 31, 2007 07:32 PM PSTZion, it's a fine discussion for New Year's Eve. I'm going to reply, don't worry. I'm going to address your specific questions. I already told Q it's easier for me to address him than you. And I told you I'm working on it. I'm thinking.
I'm very scrupulous about answering seriious posts to me. The reason I never answered the one on Judaism and Zoroastrianism was because it was so rich, I really had to think a lot. I told you that. And then Azarin contacted me about the Ali Mahin Torabi campaign and i did that and there was a lot of work, and then I had another project, and then I was afraid that I'd spend all that time replying and you'd never see it, and neither would anyone else because the blog was already old. But I never forgot about it.
Shortly thereafter I started reading the Psalms and particularly the Song of Songs, and you were right, they are redolent with freedom, not fear. And they are full to dripping with the Great Mother as well. They remind me of the Gnostic Coptic "The Thunder Perdect Rain" in some ways. The roots of Sufism can also be found in them, if one wishes to see them.
And finally Zion, I think we're all victims until we let go. I believe in the crucifix and the Boddhi tree as dual aspects of Tuva, the Tree of Life, to which we incarnate are attached to matter in sufferingr, which can only be transmuted through the Passion or transcended in Meditation. On the other hand, Mazdaism offers an equilibrium. But I still tend toward the first two.
Happy New Year,
Rosie
Anonymous666 & Rosie
by Hamvatan (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 07:18 PM PSTDear Anonymous666,
I was not sexualizing Rosie. Rosie made a reference in another comment regarding her sexual relations with a 35 year old persian male in 2004. It was a joke mixed in with a serious reply. I apologize ig I offended anyone but it was in response to Rosie sexualizing herself actually.
Happy new year.
Cognitive dissonance
by Zion (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 07:03 PM PSTRosie,
I'm sorry that you feel hurt and I'm sorry you are attacked personally, but you speak rubbish and you get grilled for it. You say you are opposed to calling Israel a Nazi state but you say yourself that '"CERTAIN practices" of the Israelis "eerily mirror those of the Nazis" '. Now what the heck does this mean?! WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?! HOW IS THIS DIFFERENT FROM WHAT THE LIKES OF THIS DARYUSH ENTITY IS SAYING?! When you utter such rubbish, why do you expect you shouldn't be called a hypocrite? That is EXACTLY what you are.
Again you say 'The truth is that CLEARLY Palestinians have been denied their rights (for WHATEVER reasons, and no matter who started it, it CANNOT be argued--the land was theirs and now it's not)'. It CAN be argued Rosie, because the truth is that there was NO such people as "Palestinians" before the state of Israel was formed, actually even afterwards before 1960s and 1970s, for the land to be theirs. Rosie, why is it so hard for you to understand this simple fact. The land was NOT theirs, there was NO such thing as a state of Palestine, there were NO such people as the Palestinians separate from the rest of the arab world, the land belongs to Jews, it was recognized by the international community twice this century, but even if not, we never ever gave up our right to this land. These "Palestinians" had several chances to form their land, as did the Syrians, the Jordanians (Jordan is actually what was supposed to be Arab state in the partition of the land Europeans refer to as Palestine.), as did the Persian Gulf arabs with Kuwait and UAE and later Bahrain... So would have been this state of "Palestine". Why is this so difficult for YOU to understand? Their leaders claim otherwise of course. That is all they are good at. They also have claims on the Persian Gulf, on Kashmir, on Chechniya, on Sudanese non-muslim sections... even on Spain. So fraking WHAT?!
You know why the Left is in such pathetic situation, because that is what Left was always looking for. They want us as victims to protect. That was always the case. Nazi, Communist, ultra right, ultra left, it's all the same at the core. Some are just more hypocrites than others. That is it.
Funny discussion for the New years eve. Happy New year Rosie, anyways.
rosie and the rest
by Anonymous666 (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 05:37 PM PSTI have been reading some of the comments on this - and other blogs - and I just have to say
I am totally disgusted by the way some of the writers are sexualizing Rosie, because she is a woman...
Hamvatan writes "dear Rosie, we know you are just interested in persian penis on this website." so i guess hamvatan is looking for pussy here?? or some Haj Mand Ali Shabestari talks about "sigheh" and actually calls it a compliment...
maybe it's because you guys just don't have rosie's intellect, and try to make up for it, by coming up with vile comments and insults.
what a shame.
Q, ...Daryush....and others
by Rosie T. on Mon Dec 31, 2007 04:32 PM PSTQ, in the post directly above you I have just been called an ultralefty, and as was predicted by AnotherAnonymous, I should have stayed out of this as was my first inclination, or I'd be getting it from both sides.
Now I am indirecttly getting it from you because I am one of the people who has serious MAJOR problems not with the ARTICLE but with that brief little intro of Daryush's. One can't just say "the Nazi State of Israel" like that...
I think, and have stated repeatedly, that the language of the left must be fundamentally changed and it is not only WRONG but UNPRAGMATIC to speak of the depredations of the Israeli state on the Palestinian people without acknowledging the historical roots--they're enormous--and who is responsible--charming Europe, whose travelogues we eagerly lap up from our Fearless Leader's travels.
Just read up the thread since I posted and look at the attacks I'm getting from Zionists. I didn't even SAY Israel was genocidal (and I'm accused of it explicitly) and I didn't EVEN use the term "ethnic cleansing" because technically, since the Arab minority within Israel proper is allowed to exist (if not thrive), the term is not strictly applicable. ALL I said, in response to Daryush's words "Nazi State of Israel" was that "CERTAIN practices" of the Israelis "eerily mirror those of the Nazis" and I am getting crucified for it. And it HURTS me. And the issue is so deep and so complex to respond to that I really don't know quite what to do.
And I told Daryush and the others in my long post NOT to use this type of language--and CERTAINLY not without empathy and recognition for the historical roots and the next thing I know he's calling people Nazis, as though I never said a thing.
The Swiss psychoanalist Alice Miller wrote in the post-Holocaust era extensively on what she called "allying with the aggressor". It seems that abused children and adult victims of torture often assume that role because if they did not do so, they would have to confront the horrific nature of what was done to them, which would cause an existential crisis of utter unimaginable despair, an ontological crisis far greater than any purely psychological one--what is the point of being in the world?. So it is a kind of defense mechanism. My last partner was a Czech Jew (a Dubcek socialist refugee) whose mother spent her teen years interned in a labor camp and the physical and psychologic abuse she inflicted on him could, only be construed as a form of torture. The woman was ruined for life, and in some ways, so was he.
There simply can be no resolution--there cannot EVEN be a reasonable DIALOG0until both sides face the truth. The truth is that CLEARLY Palestinians have been denied their rights (for WHATEVER reasons, and no matter who started it, it CANNOT be argued--the land was theirs and now it's not) and that CLEARLY the roots of the problem lie in a recent historical TRAGEDY perpetrated by Europe that MUST be acknowledged in a new LANGUAGE if ordinary Israelis are EVER to be able to face themselves and what they allow to happen on a daily basis.
What is so hard to grasp? If I say I find it offensive to begin such an article with an introduction talking about the "Nazi State of Israel", PARTICULARLY with NO acknowledgement of the historical roots, why can't you believe me? If it offends ME, can you imagine how a Zionist, perhaps a survivor of Aushwitz, perhaps someone who was not as fortunate as I to grow up in New York and was called "najes" their entire life, must feel?
What is the problem? What is so complicated? It's FAR more complicated--and extremely painful--for me to try to find a way to reach my "co-religionists" who are Zionists on this topic. I DON'T see why the secular left, ("my" camp( is having a problem understanding me. I don't. I don't understand. A new language is necessary--a language of reflection and compassion.
Q, your own article that you posted on the radiation says that the truth must be faced. The truth is that the 20th century was an orgy of destruction and violence unprecedented in the history of mankind due to technologies being able to carry out the very worst of our nature and we are all still reelng from it. World War II never ended, we're still in the fall-out. We are ALL VICTIMS OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY and we HAVE to have compassion for each other and we have to do it NOW or the future looks very, very bleak.
Daryush is Ignorant & Rosie as Usual is a Hypocrite
by hamvatan (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 03:55 PM PSTDaryush Joon,
You are really ignorant and the comparison to Nazism is really stupid. There are no similarities whatsoever. Nazi's Rounded up Jews and Gypsies for their race and exterminated them. The Israelis have built the wall because of Suicide bombers entering from all points of territory that was supposed to be under the control of the Palestinian authority. This has nothing to do with race. The Palestinians are getting collectively punished- yes big time. But this is because they can not control the extremist within who blow themselve up to have unlimited sex with virgins in heaven.
Us Iranian jews have one stupid seat in your stupid islamic country because Islam says we are the people of the book. These Iranian jews in Iran leave in constant fear when it comes to political issues they either keep their mouth shut or side with the palestinian cause to save their asses.
Additionally, the brand of Islam of your Ayatollahs discriminates against jews. For example, if a family member converts to Islam, he will be automatically entitled to most of the inheritance of his family members. Or the testimony of a jew in court is worth half the testimony of the muslim. Also for your information, there are today 300,000 israelis who are from Persian ancestry. Most of the jews who have stayed, have done so for financial reasons not for the love of the Ayatollahs.
Do you see any extermination camps in Israel? Please stop the idiotic comparison. It just give more ammunition to the far right Zionists to beat the living shit out of the poor Palestinians because when you bring up the holocust/nazisim crap in the mix, it makes the Israeli hawks win every time because the comparison is so idiotic and insulting.
Daryush, aziz joon, please tell us how many suicide bombings have you seen since the wall has gone up and how many suicide bombings were there before the wall. Can you count? Can you please tell us? Please do some objective analysis for once and give us the answer.
An dear Rosie, we know you are just interested in persian penis on this website. You are one pathetic jew. I do not want to hear about your uncle in the irgun and the rest of the none sense about your Jewishness. You somehow try to use it as a license to preach your ultra lefty crap. Your are very much entitled to your far lefty ultra liberal jewish nonsense- but us Iranian jews (including Mr. Zion & me) are entitled to remind you of your hypocricy. And don't tell me that you are not on the fringe khoskeljoon. You are very much so on the fringe of this issue as Mr. Edward Saide was (may he rest in peace).
Your problem with Israel seems to be more of a Freudian issue with your family members than Israel itself. Its also that aloof far lefty superiority complex that is prevalent in our educational system these days.
I am willing to bet you that once you visit Israel, you will totally change your mind about it and you will understand. You may not agree with everything- but you will understand and you will stop the stupid rethoric of south african style reconcilliation . You will also enjoy Israeli penis as much as persian penis- I promise. I am willing to pay for your ticket. I swear I will pay. Give me the dates you are willing to go, and I will send you a ticket for free.
Happy New Year.
Desperate Fascists...
by Q on Mon Dec 31, 2007 03:08 PM PSTThe discussion here is about the nature of the State of Israel, not Judaism. The post is very fair and not at all "pro-IRI". Why do some people feel like they have to make this about "antisemetism" ? Could it possibly be because they want to suspend thinking and silence the voices who talk about real injustices in Israel?
You can sugarcoat it however you want, you can blame it all on the victims, you can make all the excuses you want, but at the end of the day, the fact remains that the current Israeli government and policies are racist; that it is ruled by some violent fanatics controlled by the Military Industrial Complex who have an interest in perpetuating war and conflict, that Israel was established as a South Africa style colonial state, and it refuses to come to terms with this reality; that Israel supporters nearly nuked Iran this year, before their wings were clipped by saner voices in Washington. These policies are not helping Jews anywhere in the world.
These are facts. Accept it or accuse the messenger of antisemetism.
Isreal is the 5th country in the world that has Nuclear....!!
by Key (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 02:56 PM PSTIsrael is same size as New Jersey,but it is the 5th country in the WORLD that has NUCLEAR BOMB.They spend most of their money on the Military.
To those so desperate to
by kishmeatuchus-aran (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 02:21 PM PSTTo those so desperate to show that wasteland known as Iran in a good light by highlighting how 28000 Jews still want to live in Iran...be careful and dont Jizz all over yourself too prematurely.
At most there are about 20000 Jews left and most of them are miserable...I know a few stuck back there. Also, one of the reasons most dont flee immediately is the family bonds and responsibilty to elders that they carry which holds them back - for now.
Most Iranian Jews know they are gonna end up hostages when the fascists in Tehran start their second non-Holocaust against Israel. Yet they still stay...sadly because Jews have paradoxically a long memory and remember the benighted goodness of Persia (Cyrus and such), yet they have the troubling trait of NEVER learning from history. For if Jews in Tehran and Shiraz had a sense of history they would get the F out of that soon to be glass parking lot ASAP.
you wanna throw out Nazi labels do you...well before you make that idiotic accusation against the Jewish state....you cant whitewash 1400 years of barbaric treatement of Jews and Christians in Iran. The colored badges forced upon the arms of Jews..invented in IRAN! the forced segeregation of minority communities...IRAN once again! The systematic forced conversion of Jews and others over 1400 years - bravo IRAN at it again.
in 1979 there were about 100 K Jews...by some accounts there were that many before the ARAB onslaught against Iran...do you ever wonder why despite natural growth the number never grew over 1400 years...? Imagine just what level of killing and intimidation and venom the majority population had showed toward the Jews for them to be contained in such a brutal manner.
It will be poetic justice indeed for Israel to free Iran and let the Persians re-build their temples and live in freedom once again. Just as the Persians enavled the Jews of old to do the same in Zion.
Am Yisrael Chai. We always have. We always will.
You are right Kourosh
by Zion (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:58 PM PSTThe similarities between Zoroastrians and Jews is true. It is fascinating to see how similar the Parsi community in India is to jewish communities in diaspora. It is not however just zoroastriansim per se. The iranian community after the revolution in the west has also proved to be one of the most educated and successful, with family values and insistence on education quite similar to old age Jewish values. That is one of the things that pisses me off with comments about palestinians this and that. You want to see a true Ghetto, that's what Iranians find themselves today, jew or non Jew. Decent Iranians, willing to be modern, educated and lively, crushed inside a large ghetto. Do you hear this in the free world? No, its all about Palestinians this, Palestinians that. They do nothing but promote and rejoice on death and yet get all the attention and all the money from around the world, including the US. It is surreal, and sad.
Koroush, they don't know any better...
by Rosie T. on Mon Dec 31, 2007 09:41 AM PSTso teach them.
Rosie, did you know?
by Kouroush Sassanian (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 08:50 AM PSTI lived with many Iranian jews before I left Iran. They were close to the Zoroasterian community in Iran.
These anti-semite idiots were told from a young age that jews were najes, but more importantly, they engaged in the ritual of kidnapping muslim children and making bread from their blood.
They don't know any better!
Yes, Abarmard,
by Rosie T. on Mon Dec 31, 2007 08:39 AM PSTit makes perfect sense.
Initial response
by Rosie T. on Mon Dec 31, 2007 08:33 AM PSTI said when I posted here yesterday that the only reason I did so was because several people had asked me to, and I explained that I hadn't done so because I knew it was an intractable problem and the discussion would have no resolution. I posted anyway and now I am being asked questions, complex ones, time-consuming ones.. And now I note that this blog is second-most discussed on this website on this New Years' Eve. So I've decided, as my first response, to repost my original statement, with bolding of sections I feel most important for the questions asked. , And I ask anyone following this dailogue to seriously read the post, especially those bolded sections, and read WHAT I WROTE and not what you THINK I've written.
*****************
Well here I am since some of you asked. Accept me as I am, najes and all... ;D
AnotherAnonymous is quite right, this discussion is far too complex as well as diffuse to expect to make a contribution that will really achieve much. But since several people have mentioned me, I'll just make some observations, having read through the whole thread:
1) I can't comment about the situation of Iranian Jews in Iran because I don't know much about it. I found the article interesting and informative, as well as the comments of posters challenging the credibility of the reasons it poses that Iranian Jews don't apply for immigration to Israel. And I'm in no position whatsoever to reach any definitive conclusions.
2) I found the article interesting but I found Daryush's introduction to it offensive. It is absolutely true that the Israeli treatment of Palestinians eerily mirrors CERTAIN Nazi practices, particularly the construction of the wall which re-creates a large "Warsaw Ghetto" out of Palestine. But this is due to a collective traumatization, and absolutely no progress can be made on the Israel/Palestine situation until/unless a language is found among the left which recognizes this fact. Both Israeli Jews and Palestinians are victims of the 20th century, an explosion of the most violent horrific forces in history unleashed through the power of the technologies evolved in these five thousand years of patriarchal "civilization." And it is Europe that was ultimately responsible for the tragedy in Israel/Palestine today. It is a gaping wound and calling Israelis Nazis instead of, let's say, "a traumatized, misguided people projecting their tragic recent history onto others" will NOT help. Israelis in general will NEVER be able to look at themselves as long as this rhetoric exists. They are afraid, and this rhetoric terrifies them even more. So as long as you use this rhetoric, you polarize them and YOU ARE AS RESPONSIBLE AS THEY FOR THE DEPREDATIONS THEY INFLICT UPON THE PALESTINIANS..
3) As many know, I favor a one-state solution along the lines of Edward Said, to be implemented through Truth and Reconciliation Commissions along the lines of South Africa. For this reason, in the short run I find the recent fragmentation of the area into THREE states, not two, tragic but in the long run hopeful, because to me it proves that the only REAL solution is a one-state one. For the time being, as long as the unholy alliance between the neocons (many of them formerly liberal Jews) and the Christian right exists, I find the situation in Israel/Palestine unfortunatley intractably hopeless. This is one reason why I'm never in a great rush to comment on it.
4) I do not find any substantive difference between the neocons (i.e. hardline Zionists and Christian right), and the hardline elements in the IRI. As I have previously stated: Cheneykhamenei, Siamese twins separated at birth, now happily reunited. I have repeatedly brought up the "unholy alliance" in the UN of Bush, IRI and China leading mostly Shariah countries to hamstring a worldwide will to abolish capital punishment. I have also stated that I find it tragic that it was Bush's flanking of Iran on both sides militarily that killed Reform in Iran. Regardless. Cheneykhamenei BOTH suck.
5) I find many Iranian discussions of the Israel/Palestine situation to be red herrings, that is they lead people off the track. They are like little twigs coming off of a tree, and they stem from the Shah's involvement in a triangular military alliance with the US and Israel. And so, the discussion between those who still "detest" the Shah and those who romanticize him can be no more than twigs. Of the following tree:
6) YOUR tree of life, YOUR "tuva". Your own history and your own unwillingness to face it squarely. I refer you to my recent posts on Rashidian's blog on Benazir Bhutto (yep, "my" Benazir) called "Legacy (Shah)" and on Kadivar's photo essay "25 years of Service", directed to Another Anonymous and to Jamshid.
7) I find a few of you to be possessed of a vitriolic, deeply entrenched anti-Semitism which grieves me, but it grieves me no more than Pakistan in flames, ino more than the drought Africa is facing, no more than the intentional NON-education of American minority youth to make them willing cannon fodder for Imperialistic wars, no more than the Palestinian wall, and no more than it grieves me to witness the little murders some of you inflict on each other on this website on a daily basis because you're afraid to face your own history and your role in it squarely. But once you choose to do, you will OWN it. It will be YOURS. As I wrote in my song, "Salaam Iran" published here: "Salaam Iran, you are so much like me/A child crying in the dark for your history/but it could bathe you in its light but first you have to want to see./When will you learn to dance?"
8) I have no familial relationship to Shalom Goldsmith nor would I ever want to.
I ended my article on "Salaam Iran" this way: "And the time has come and it is your time, Iran. Remove your hijab. ALL your hijabs. Stand up Iran and dance."
Stop bullshitting and do the REAL work. Dance. Tanz. Zire shamshire ghamesh raqs konaan bayaad raft. "Be the change you want to see in the world."--Gandhi.
Is it possible you all could be right?
by Abarmard on Mon Dec 31, 2007 08:28 AM PSTIs it possible that the wrong policies has given each one of you a point of view that is correct based on the angle that you are looking at? Although many things could be wrong with Israel or Iran, or America, we must remember that nothing is absolute. Hope is only there when we also mention the positive and try to build based on those positives rather than destruction of "negatives". If you think in that direction (positives) then we all will understand our points better, knowing that we agree with many shortcomings but we are looking at the possibilities. We have to agree that some manorities in Iran have been treated unjust, but can also see that the culture is more tolarent than the regimes that govern. It is possible that Israel has similarities as such. So we don't really hate one another, but are against the policies that define us as hateful and argue about that point which defines the other side the way we think they are. While I bet if we all meet, we will get a long fine. Does this make any sense?
To Daryush
by Bijanam (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 06:49 AM PSTI thought you had some degree of inteligence, but reading thru some of your replies to people's notes, I find you a close minded individual who is blinded with hate...There is no sense in conversing with you.
So long, and may god save you from yourself.
I beg you Rosie....
by Bijanam (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 06:41 AM PSTPlease reply to Zion's last post. I don't have the fluency in speaking my mind as well as Zion does. It is incredible how closely Zion's post emulates my thoughts. Please be kind enough and respond to his note and have the courage to apologise and concede that your comparison of the wall to getto was totally out of line...
Wow..
by not a Zionist...a Humanist (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 05:13 AM PSTYou set up a blog calling for the destruction of a member country of the UN and wonder why people think you are a terrorist supporter?
MOre from your friends.
by American (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 04:50 AM PSTQari Hifzur Rehamn, 60, spoke openly of imposing Islamic law’s stoning and beheading on Britain – as Pakistan was rocked by unrest over the assassination of Benazir Bhutto.
He warned: “We want Islamic law for all Pakistan and then the world.
“We would like to do this by preaching. But if not then we would use force.”
Zion is the reason
by Daryush on Mon Dec 31, 2007 03:37 AM PSTSee, people arrogant like these are the true reason for Nazi mentality dominated in Israel. If you doubt it before, the reason is given by Israeli propeganda machines such as Zion (Zionist = only party allowed by Hitler and Nazi Germany) and idiots/Israeli Nazi like "Kourosh sassaniyan" or Shalom for short. I want to thank the Israelis here to have made my points clear by their fascist Zionist minds through words.No need to say more...
bin Laden agrees with you
by American (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 03:19 AM PSTfrom his recent tape:
"We intend to liberate Palestine, the whole of Palestine from the (Jordan) river to the sea," he said, threatening "blood for blood, destruction for destruction."
"We will not recognize even one inch for Jews in the land of Palestine as other Muslim leaders have," bin Laden said.
Looks like you are in "bad" company.
The Race concept is not an Iranain/Persian concept
by Anonymous+/- (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 02:27 AM PSTIran will not exist if it had to be exclusively a one race/religion country or Society ... Iran is not racist ...
There are so many races in Iran ...
The Jews are one among many .....
I grew up with no Idea of Jewish race ....
and If I had encounter with Jewish girl I would have married into the Jewish family .... with no prejudice
Please come to term with your own racial prejudice ...
I also acknowledge there are many stupid racist people ...
but over all Iranian are not a racist or anti-jewish people ...
With Love ... to all
I am not brave enough to live in Israel, but...
by Azarin Sadegh on Mon Dec 31, 2007 01:54 AM PSTMy best friend lives in Israel since 1978. As she has told me the details of her daily life, I have to confess that I am not brave enough to live in Israel. The same way I will not live in Iraq or in iran or in Sudan. I like to pretend to be a citizen of the world and I rather think of patriotism like a disease. I like to protect my boys and to give them the safety of an ordinary life and the prospect of a happy future. And I have been teaching them –through my own past-- that if they start feeling miserable here, they could leave to another place, "under another sky, possibly a bluer sky". I left Iran because of the War and I left France because of their racism. I guess I expect too much from the life and I can't stand anything that is messing up my comfort.
No, I have never been brave, still I admire my friend's determination and courage. I am speechless facing her love for a country that she believes to be her only option for happiness, even a painful happiness. I cannot really understand her reasons. I am not Jewish and I have not suffered their historical misery. I do not agree with her all the time, but still I have the most respect for her. I think there are two groups of people and I'm sure that my friend and I don't belong to the same group. Azarin
Straight answers
by Zion (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 01:42 AM PSTRosie,
I did not attack you, I attacked what you said. I am not traumatized. Believe me, but I have kept my cool head. Maybe you should read some of the comments addressed to you again to see what personal derision looks like.
Please do not try to put a spin on what I said. I challenged you on what you specifically said about the "wall" and "ghettos". I say it again, this comparison is baseless and so unbelievably unjust. Maybe you should specify exactly how the two situations are equivalent. which you can't, instead of preaching about general vague cliches. Europe's role in much of the mess the world finds itself is not something I disagree with, but here you go again. Israel was our land. Even the Balfoure declaration or league of nations merely "recognized" our right to it. This has NOTHING to do with WWII or what Europe did or didn't do. You think the notion "land without people" is problematic? Its a motto. But it is beased on an undeniable fact. Please show me when in history, ever, this "land" was a state called Palestine? Please give me authoritative sources about the number of people and villages in that land? Where were its boundaries, this legendary "palestine of yours"? What was its population in the first half of 19th century before the first wave of Zionist activists went there to dry out the swamps and fight giant malaria mosquitos? Give me sources, credible ones. You say "never again" for everyone, AMEN to that! But how dare you propose that we are engaging in genocide against a specific people!? How dare you after all the sacrifices and concessions Israel and Zionists have made and were ready to make and are ready to make to avoid death and destruction on either side. How dare you, Rosie? I don't think you make antisemites out of people. Of course not, but you give them ammunition they so desperately need. It has always been Jews like you who gave them their most lethal propaganda tools. "Holocaust industry", remember that? It was Jew who started it first. Israel a Nazi state, it was a Jew who coined it first... how far back do you want me to go? It was a christian convert Jew who invented the deadly myth of Jews sacrificing christian children for their blood and desecrating the hosts in england in the middle ages. It's about effective "excuses", not the causes of this disease.
I don't ask you to be pro-Jew nationalist. Be really fair and objective. That's what I ask you.
Where the heck is there anything fair in comparing Israel's fence to the Nazi Ghettos? Where Rosie, where?
(I am the same Zion, and last I remembered I didn't get any reply back in that thread)
Here, a more detailed answer to such vile accusations:
//www.jcpa.org/jl/vp507.htm
Look, Zion...
by Rosie T. on Mon Dec 31, 2007 01:18 AM PSTIt is what it is. I am clear about this. Israelis and Palestinians are BOTH victims of European colonialsim devouring first the world and then ITSELF in World War II. Israel/Palestine is one of the MANY countries that is a victim of the fall-out. Byt outside of Africa, it is probably the most tragic case.
You see Zion I was raised in the shadow of the Holocaust and I was raised to say "Never again" and I was ALSO raised under the slogan "A land without a people for a people without a land". That slogan alone should give you a clue that there's something fishy going on on BOTH sides. So at a certain point in my, shall we say, consciousness-raising, I made a decision that"never again" was for everyone.
I'm not adding fuel to the fire. Nobody needs me to bolster their agenda. Don't worry. Nobody's becoming MORE anti-Semitic or anti-Israel because of Rosie Tozih. Some blind men will say the elephant is a snake, and others will say it's a tree. I just keep saying it's an elephant and maybe one or two people will hear me when they decide they don't want to be blind anymore...
And some alredy agree with me and actually I find the reviews on this thread to be quite mixed. Some fervently defend the Jews, others attack Israel but don't attack the Jews, others are vitriolically anti-Semitic to the marrow of the bone. It is to be expected. I don't, however, notice anyone specificallyattacking ME except you . But that's okay. I understand where you're coming from. Our people have been traumatized. I don't mind being attacked by you.
and to tell you the truth Zion, if you ARE the Zion I think you are, I'd much rather go back to our discussions on Judaism and Zoroastrianism and related religions. Are you game?
No, I'm not ashamed.it. I'm SORRY I can't tell you what you want to hear. I'm trulysorry. But I'm not ashamed.
By the Way (Iranian ") is against Israel
by Exhail - (Iranian ") Anonymous+/- (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:19 AM PST.
Iranian Love Dance (ENJOY - Soroda Basta)
by Iranian " (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:12 AM PST//www.youtube.com/watch?v=OW-7ZQYuF0E
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jz6Z-BB5us&feature...
//www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaCwwt03pmg&feature...
Happy new year to my Ham Vatens
Mr. East
by Kouroush Sassanian (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:09 AM PSTI am willing to give Iranians three options.
- Stay muslim, but pay a heavy tax (80% of their gross income)
- convert to Zoroasterism, which involves changing all their arabic muslim names
- be deported or self-deport to Saudi Arabia their true homeland (I realize they are in for a rude awaking, as they will not be accepted as muslims, opps!)
But, going back to your request Mr. East. You want me to curse at Christians or Jews! Why? What have they done to me, my land, my people? Nothing, I say, nothing!
Look, it is clear it does not bother you that mohammad was a killer or a rapist or a pedophile. It also does not concern you that many Persians were taken as salves by mohammad and his followers.
The last time I checked Jews had not invaded Iran or murdered or raped its population.
I have some choice words for you. You mohammad, you hossein, you hassan, you! And, I don't mean a Teddy Bear! Is that bad enough!
Thanks Bijanam
by Zion (not verified) on Mon Dec 31, 2007 12:02 AM PSTFor your timely comment to dispel all the vicious lies and inhuman propaganda by relaying the first hand truth with us. It is so important for us to speak up and throw light n all this darkness.