divaneh

.....

In your story....you encoutered a Pakistani.....in Maziar's posts...he encountered an Israeli....that is my interpretation of Maziar's 2 posts....

Thanks for the stats MPD

Dear MPD, thanks for providing more stats, highlighting the IRI achievements. I hope they come useful to those who still defend the indefensible.

Is it me or is it you

Dear Maziar, I did not understand your second comments either. May be I am daft. Please make it clear as who is the target of your comment. If I am called an Israeli then please say it clearly and stop beating around the bush. That way I can give you an appropriate reply.

sargord, yoohoo sargord, where are you?

tahgord, you heard the criticism on the polls that you submitted for evidence?  what's your response?  what's your response to divaneh's statistics?  what kind of army did you serve?  the way you keep running away from questions after you submit the same phoney surveys, i persume the army never even won a battle let alone a war.  waiting for your response to divaneh's statistics and criticism of the one that you submitted.

Some more education Q

I am sure you are an intelligent person and understood the point that I was raising about wishing me killed for not believing in god. If you follow the rules of Islam, then you have no choice but to want me killed for not believing in God. It is because you as a person who believes in a religion are not allowed to think freely and are confined to the boundaries that your faith has drawn for you. If you believe that in Islam the punishments for those who do not believe in God is not death, then please enlighten me and point me at the right sources. My respect for other people beliefs is the same as the one that is defined in any democracy. You are free to believe in whatever you wish as long as you do not harm others. So, no, I do not respect killers. But I think that was obvious.

Now Q, I can’t see why you cannot make a point without labelling those who do not share your opinion. You have called me an arrogant, hypocrite, bigot who make insulting accusations, for stating that Muslims put the Islam before human rights. Is it not true? Are you implying that the Muslims and non-Muslims enjoy equal rights in Islam? Please point to the verse of Quran or the hadith that support that argument. Please show us how the Islamic governments of Iran and Saudi treat their citizens and all humans equally. You have no leg to stand on when it comes to human rights. You cannot try to show the black as white and expect the others to just accept it.

Which part of my blog or comments implied that respect for human rights is not expected from Western nations? I condemn the criminal acts of all Western governments including the US, UK, France, Germany and the rest. But the point of this blog is Muslims and their approach to Human Rights and Democracy. I have not come across a single Muslim who has condemned a crime committed by Muslims on non-Muslims. Perhaps that’s my luck. Do not forget that the Muslims discussed in this blog are the conservative Muslims.

I cared enough about Burma to raise the case and this is not the first time. I have not even seen that from the people who are discussed here. They seem to be obsessed with Muslim affairs.

I did not say you were wrong about Egypt, Turkey and India. In fact if you search any country, you will find at least one person who support AN. That does not mean majority of Indians who have their own problems with Muslim hard liners (before you accuse me, and Seek and Hindu hard liners), Egyptian (who have conflicting interest with Iran) or Turkish (who seem to attach more value to secularism) support AN.

I hope in the future you use more reasons and less labels and accusations.

More Statistics...

Iranian authorities are now holding at least 47 journalists in prison.  The number of jailed journalists in Iran is the highest the Committee to Protect Journalists (CPJ) has recorded in a single country since December 1996, when it documented 78 imprisonments in Turkey.

The report includes names of the 47 verified jailed journalists and a brief information about their imprisonments.

//cpj.org/2010/02/with-47-journalists-in-jail-iran-sets-notorious-re.php

the Israeli laaf zan

I think they don't trust any MUSLIM and he was bluffing to see what side I was in ?      

 my best puff is Oregano with generic tobacco.        Maziar

Good, now let me educate YOU, Divaneh

I do not believe in any religion and respect your right to believe in any faith that you choose. You would like me killed for not believing in God. Now who is the hater?

Actually, YOU are the hater. You are saying I want to kill (is there a worse possible accusation?) without knowing a thing about me. How increadibly enlightened and open minded. Is this what "freeing yourself" and becoming an atheist does to a person?

And what you think you know about my religion and your claim to "respect" my choice is proven false as well.

Just to be clear, you "respect" someone else's choice to be a murderer? Is that what you are saying?

Or were you just BS'ing when you pretend you respect someone else's choice. Which is it?

At least I point to specific things you personally say (speeking of "loose") to backup my point.

My statement that you have repeated in your comment implies the fact that Muslims (We are talking mosque goers) put Islam before human rights,

and I'm telling you that not only are you wrong, but making such a sweeping sterotype of over a Billion Muslims is nothing short of bigotry. I don't understand why you think because you have "freed yourself", it gives you license to make hateful, insulting accusations based on your subjective and clearly biased personal observations. Can you explain that?

[ This is called hypocrisy (for your education). ]

Or maybe you expect me to just take your word because you obviously consider YOURSELF to be more englightened?

[ This is called arrogance (for your education). ]

They don't even raise an eyebrow when Muslims kill non-Muslims, such as attacks on Christians in Iraq and Egypt.

You mean like Americans who wouldn't dare bomb or attack Montana, Kansas or Ireland even though those places have produced terrorists who have killed hundreds of people? Many muslims did in fact condemn attacks on Christians, and those condemnations are probably in proportion to the number of victims, the vast majority of whom are produced by US and Israel.

It would not even occur to you to hold the West to same sandards that Murdoch-media wants to impose on "the Muslims" throughout the world.

[ This is called selective argumentation (for your education). ]

Non-Muslims suffering such as suppression of Burmese by the Junta is completely irrelevant to them.

Is it relevant to you? Is it relevant to your like minded friends on this website who always yell "We only care about Iran"? Is that what you mean by "irrelevant" ?

[ see hypocrisy, selective argumentation ]

I have seen Pakistanis, Somalis, Sudanese, Bangladeshis and other poor nation showing support for AN, but not many people from Egypt, Turkey and India.

Oh Ok, so YOU have not seen "many" people from those countries, therefore I must be wrong?

I don’t know about you, I try to educate people.

Any real educator is always open to educating himself first.

Dear Maziar and MM

Dear Maziar:

I have read your comment a few times but could not understand it that well. What are you puffing man? Give me some. :)

Dear MM:

You are right. The only thing which is free in Iran now is the people's lives. Khomeini deceived a nation to establish an Iran conforming to his own backward mind. The result is the worst tyranny that we have ever seen. Islam played as an effective tool in his hands and now is used by the current suppressors. It is not sacred and it must be open to criticism. Flinging accusations and personal attacks are common where reason is short. 

Statistics for Sarkar Barandeh

Dear Sarkar, thank you for the good laugh. hee hee. I am sure after the regime declared whoever questions the election result will be classed as an enemy of god and will be sent to the gallows shortly after, Iranians rush to make their opinions known specially when talking on the phone to strangers. As if Iran is such a free democracy. Based on 10 polls by the University of Tehran. Ha Ha Ha. What a credible and freely operating source.

But now that you are interested in hard data and statistics, lets present you with some statistical hard facts.

Corruption

9th from bottom 

According to Transparency International, which publishes the annual Corruption Perception Index, Iran has fallen from 141st on the list of 180 countries to eighth from bottom – one of the most marked declines.

//www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/iran-drops-in-corruption-list-amid-calls-for-new-urgency-in-the-west-1822418.html

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index

Capital Punishment

2nd in the number of executiond 

In 2008 we were 2nd in numbers and first in executions per head. We are possibly still 2nd but are closing ranks with China.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment

Press Freedom

4th from bottom 

Journalists have suffered more than ever this year in Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s Iran. The president’s disputed reelection plunged the country into a major crisis and fostered regime paranoia about journalists and bloggers. 

//www.rsf.org/en-classement1003-2009.html 

Economic Freedom

ranked 168th  

Iran’s economic freedom score is 43.4, making its economy the 168th freest in the 2010 Index. Iran is ranked 16th out of 17 countries in the Middle East/North Africa region, and its overall score is below the world and regional averages. 

//www.heritage.org/index/Country/Iran

Perhaps we should all write a thank you letter and send to the regime for the exemplary achievements.

And no Sarkar, I didn't vote. I will vote in a referendum or for a president where every Iranian can freely take part. I do not vote and advise against it as long as parts of the society are barred from participation and an unelected body wants to filter the candidates.

آمیرزا دیوانه،

آمیرزا دیوانه، با اون حرف قبلی، فکر کنم فقط خودت رو به دیوانگی زدی

good answer to the Islamophiles.

If you look at what Khomeini was saying before he was handed to us on a silver platter, he was saying the same BS about Islam is freedom of expression, free food, free.....

After they took power فوتینا یا بیلاخ

The only thing he did not promise was free love and he was right.

LAAF ZANI

I also heard the same lines and blah,blah too;

one of them was an Israeli !!

My response was : I KNOW YOU'RE NOT TELLING THE TRUTH.

I am still Iranian But not from Islamic republic,and you are not from ..........         Maziar

The hard data does not

The hard data does not support the contention that President Ahmadinejad is a dictator:

//www.worldpublicopinion.org/pipa/articles/br...

You know, it was ignoring hard data and established political/social science that resulted in so many failed predictions for 22 Bahman and the so-called Green movement in general. You would think you'd learn from these mistakes. But no! Emotion and wishful thinking remain paramount among the now desperate anti-IRI cheerleaders.

Sorry, divaneh, you sound like an otherwise nice and well intentioned person. Maybe you should have responded by telling the kind Pakistani client that you voted for and support someone else other than President Ahmadinejad. You did vote- didn't you?

Let me educate you Q

Dear Q, this is the second time that you label me as a hater. As you seem to be very loose with the use of words hate and hater, a little education may help you. The words hate, dislike, disapprove and criticise all have different meanings and cannot be used in place of each other. I do not believe in any religion and respect your right to believe in any faith that you choose. You would like me killed for not believing in God. Now who is the hater?

If you want to hear hate, listen to IRI supporters. Hate kills a film maker in Holland. Those like me who have freed themselves from the chain of religion, do not hate and do not kill. They criticise, disapprove and dislike.

My statement that you have repeated in your comment implies the fact that Muslims (We are talking mosque goers) put Islam before human rights, democracy or all other notions that has helped free human from tyranny, and I stand by it. You know full well that to these people the suffering of Iranian people in the hands of the IRI is of no concern, because it’s about Muslims killing Muslims. They don't even raise an eyebrow when Muslims kill non-Muslims, such as attacks on Christians in Iraq and Egypt. Non-Muslims suffering such as suppression of Burmese by the Junta is completely irrelevant to them. They view the world only through the one sided and discriminating prism of Islam.

Have no doubt that the Sunni Imam praises the AN and the Rahbar. IRI money speaks.

Your generalisation about support for AN is not very close to the real situation. I have seen Pakistanis, Somalis, Sudanese, Bangladeshis and other poor nation showing support for AN, but not many people from Egypt, Turkey and India. I don’t know why you have added Brazil in that list, but with regards to China, it’s laughable that you enlist the support of a nation that is deprived of freedom of information. The nation whose fate has hardly been manipulated by the west and seems to be adopting the Western values faster than anyone else.

What are we doing to change world? I don’t know about you, I try to educate people.

Dear freinds

Thanks for reading.

Dear MPD: I actually did not lose the client. I will see him again and will make sure he sees the real picture.

Ari Aziz: Rightly said, and not even short-term support or any support at all.

Vildemose Jaan: Thanks for your kind comment.

Dear MM: Good point. I bet he likes general Zia. To that type of mentality, Islam comes before anything else, including human rights.

Hamsade Jaan: I didn't ask him but I think his yardstick would be the Sharia and how Musharaf has performed in relation to that.

Dear Yolanda:  I agree. Still, I do not expect a despotic regime such as IRI to show any rationality in what it does and say. It is these ordinary people who are brain washed and only care when Muslims suffer in the hand of non-Muslims. All other cases including Muslims killing Muslims are not worthy of real consideration. However let's not forget how much IRI spends on its image.

MPD,

Thanks for requesting my opinion, but I don't find this terribly interesting. What do you want to know specifically?

hamsade, I see sarcasm is my personal strategy of keeping my sanity in the face of overwhelming hypocrisy and bullshit that I read sometimes on this site. Unfortunately, I don't see an end to it anytime soon.

On the point that you raise, having also conversed with many Cubans about Cuba but also having visited Havana myself, I see a lot of similarity with the Iranians situation.

Between all the shortcomings of the Government of Cuba and the wild exaggeration, irrational hatred of anything "socialist" and plain racism/classism of the Cuban exile establishment, I have to say I find the latter a lot less credible. Frankly, some of their excesses make me shiver. I still remember watching the Illan Gonzales saga on TV and the way these out-of-touch extremists were trying to prevent a young boy from uniting with his family on the singular argument that "Castro is evil" was nothing short of fascism to me.

I hoped to Allah that Iranian expat community wouldn't become like this and fortunately my prayers have been answered. I think, particularly since 2001, the Iranian exile community has become much more reasonable and able to sideline the traditional Cuban-exile-like establishment to a great degree.

Even the Cuban mafia of South Florida isn't what it used to be. They have clearly lost power and influence due to their frequent irrational predictions.

So, if you or your professor were making an association between Cuban exiles and Iranian ones, that's not necessarily a positive one in my opinion.

Dear Q,

I requested your opinion of my translation of one of Ahmadinejad's speeches back in December 2009.  The request was sent to you by email and a comment somewhere else.  You might not have seen them.  I still would like to know what you think of the translation since you had a strong opinion over my translation of his "wiped off the map" speech.  Here is the link to the blog, if you'd like to leave a comment there.  Thank you.

//iranian.com/main/blog/multiple-personality-disorder/grace-god

The clinet probably loved General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq

who overthrew Bhutto and implemented islamization of Pakistan. 

......

I agree with you that:

*****************************

It’s not because of the justice and human rights for the Gazans, no, it’s because they are Muslims. No other human suffering seems to worry them too much. Then one realizes that it is only because it is a battle, a race, a match between Muslims and non-Muslims,

*****************************

IRI condemns the killing of Gazan Muslims, the killing of Chinese Uyghur Muslims, and the killing of any Muslims in the "rest" of the world....but IRI justifies the execution of Iranian Muslims....it is so ironic!

During post-election protests....when protesters were brutally tortured, gundowned, and raped in Iran....IRI justified its brutal crackdown, but condemned the massacre of Uyghurs by Chinese government:

//www.tehrantimes.com/Index_view.asp?code=198661

divaneh, q

divaneh, i liked your story.  a story that is familiar with many of us through our experiences.  did your client like musharaf? he's a dictator but doesn't seem to be popular among islamists.  i may be wrong on that (that wouldn't be the first time).

q, i agree with your comment (that's a first).  my cuban professor used to tell me "castro to us is what khomeini is to you, who is your che?"  i told him the closest thing is a person called navab safavi, an idealist, comrade and mentor to khomeini.  he told me "you must hate that s.o.b like i hate che."  from then on the romanticized posters and t-shirts of che had a different meaning for me.  btw, it's much easier to read your comments without sarcasm.

does fed-ex deliver humans?

If so, we would happily send AN to countries that wish he was there.  And, leave Iran for Iranians.

What they hear is not the

What they hear is not the cries of freedom of the Iranian nation, but the mosque’s preacher praising the Ahmadinejad. The man who is going to heal the pain of their embarrassment.

Bingo! Great post.

It's understandable: biggotry can be tough to deal with

"He, and all those who go to his mosque don’t care about human rights, modern laws, world order or anything else but Islam"

especially by people who claim not be "haters". This, by way, was the least of the dog-whistle hints you dropped about your client.

by the way I doubt very much the Sunni Imam at his Mosque praises "the Ahmadinejad".

But I know this encounter well, I have been at the same place. People in Turkey, Egypt, India, even Brazil and China are just in love with this guy.

It's not because they are stupid. It's because there still is a lot of Western-induced injustice in the world and anyone taking up this cause is going to be supported. It's the same reason people of the third world have always praise Arafat, Castro or Che Guevera.

What are we doing to change this in the world?

Well put, Divaneh.

Iran can be strong with foreign powers only after we eliminate our own tyrants.  Our negotiators are severely disadvantaged because they can't be confident of the nation's long-term support.  

Well, I'm sorry you lost your client.

Better luck with Christians and Jews.