Jahanshah Javid

To Judge, The Heart Must Be Empty Of Love & Hate

Dear Jahanshah,

The fact that you brought attention to this very important issue is appreciated very much. Thank you that no matter what, you counted the imprisoned Baha'is as members of your country and in support of their rights, made such a statement. Actually, this has been all I've been thinking about in the past few days. My amazement at the lack of response from my dearest friends. I have friends that witnessed how their co-religionists treated us in Iran. I have never felt so hurt by my Moslem friends.

We were high school classmates & they knew my family was being persecuted. I would come to school & sit in class totally distracted, feeling my mothers ring in my pocket, as she would leave it with me when called to Evin for interrogation.

Whereas they continued their education & went on to become professionals, I was denied higher education & on my own behest I would follow education and help them!

Whereas they lived comfortably in their homes they witnessed how our home was confiscated, how much abuse & terror we endured in our loneliness and this on a daily basis.

They watched as our home was taken from us, they watched as we became homeless & the hardship we endured to find a place to live.

Now that most of us have been living abroad for so many years, I expected them not to just be an audience and watch as they label innocent Baha'is as "Mofsed fel Arz".

It breaks my heart to see they promote anything & anybody as though they cannot see all they posts I put on facebook.

I am so sorry that prejudice in the life of Moslems goes so deep that they can protest for the Ugandan Gay Rights, be outraged about a mulla that's been humiliated, share pictures about a car that was hit by a bullet, but ignore the existence of beloved to me.

One day, they were kids, now they are adults. One day they lived under their parents' roof and that is all they listened to and believed.

They grew and questioned whether the teachings of their leader 'Khomeini' was true, they realised that wearing or not wearing a scarf didn't make them a better person, they grew & thought about things & judged by themselves. Yet when it comes to Baha'i, why are they still judging by what someone once told them?

When in 11th grade, in History class we had a section about Babi & Baha'i Faith. I remember how I felt humiliated in class because of the lies but kept quiet because I felt it was no-one's fault. When the questions came up in the exam, then I answered with what was on my mind.

I wrote to the teacher that although she didn't have a choice in what the book said, she had a choice in what question she picked for the exam & explained how twisted the historical writings were. During the primary school the Kings were magnificent & just & during high school they were all crooks & murderers. History of iran changed with the Regime. I asked her why she expected me to write a lie? I was pf curse punished & my mother was called.

Iranians have to learn where they must look for their source of information.

One cannot learn about the kings of iran from Islamic Republic's history book. One cannot learn about islam from the Jewish books. One cannot learn about blacks from the KKK literature. Why? Because What is learnt is not ACCURATE. what is learnt is half truths.

Many a persian friend have I met that before looking for information about the Baha'i Faith from its source, look first for something against it !!! it says volumes about prejudice.

When researching anything, the heart must be empty of love & hate to able to judge for oneself.

Although the writings from this video are from the Baha'i writings, they have knowledge that most of my Moslem friends can use very much.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI-twSnsssA

N

Don't worry

Persian Westender, you wrote: "Not that there’s something wrong with being Baha’i, but this is becoming a boring trend to defend a belief by assimilating to that. Why we cannot keep our ideological identity, yet to be able to defend other’s rights and integrity?"

Did you read what I wrote? I said if having a different belief is a crime, then I am a Bahai too.

If communists go on trial for their beliefs, then I am a communist too.

If ANYBODY goes on trial for what they believe in, I am him or her too.

It doesn't mean I have converted and become a Bahai. I am still an atheist but trying to make a symbolic gesture and defend the rights of Bahais to believe in whatever they want.

Don't worry, I'm not "assimilating".

The Tricks of the Trade.....

I guess the British Royal Family will be teaching soon at Eaton College and Oxford University the history of the world in the past 400 years!

mannya2001

A young person who is  near to go to the university is not a kid anymore! They can decide for themselves. They would be free to subscribe to another reigion if they wish.

If I understand well, you call the Bahais parents "dictator" but you approve the government's action of keeping people away from studying at university , just because of their religion. Is that true?

I am an Iranian ex-Bahai and critic of Bahaism

And darn proud of it. I take no pride in having been a Baha'i. But rather I take pride in the fact that my ancestor was Tahirih Qurra'tul-'Ayn (a Babi leader considered to be the Return of Fatima Zahra') and that I got to know Her for who She truly was only once I left Baha'ism.

Bahaism is a totalitarian cult that was founded on the spilt blood of innocent individuals and the illegitmate usurpation of  the duly designated authority of a completely innocent figure whom the Baha'is have gone out of their way to malign, libel, slander and twist the facts of history regarding. Whatever has happened to Baha'is in Iran in recent years, it is simply the karma that providence has forced them to pay back for their own wrongdoings committed against the posterity of Truth.

Yes, Jahanshah, we know you are a Baha'i just as twenty years ago you
were a Hezbollahi and then became a Aftabeh-be-dast refomist and now that you know
which way the wind is blowing, you are a Baha'i. Hezb-i-Baad budan
honari nist,  'aziz jan, and there are far more honest ways to work through your personal issues, guilt-ridden conscience and total lack of personal integrity than beating your chest for a group of Fascist Theocrats far more dangerous than the Khomeinists.

Unfortunately in their complete myopia,  and in the worst interests of the future of Iran, Western agendas wishing to overthrow the Islamic republic are now rallying behind the Haifan Baha'i organization, just as 31 years ago they rallied (and even in some cases financially aided) the Ayatollah Khomeini in the overthrow of the Shah.

Also noteworthy is that 40-31 years ago people were similarly claiming to be Shi'a Muslim followers of "Imam" Khomeini's line, arguing similarly about the innocence and purity of Khomeini and his brand of Islam. 31 years later, and look where that got us. It seems folks simply refuse to learn from past mistakes, and since that is the case, let them be condemned to repeat those mistakes again in various other forms!

Wahid Azal

Iranian ex-Bahai Baha'i critic, Bayani and shaykh of the Fatimiya Sufi Order

[This message is crossposted to USENET]

Immortal Guard, minority doesn't have to be mortal

Many minority races, groups and nationalities live prosperously in other parts of the world without the need to constantly watch their backs. I tend to agree with you when it comes to a reglious country like Iran. Where minorities are prosecuted. But if they are not treated as such, then they won't have to act in their "self-interest." 

Banie adam azayeh yek paykaran

ke dar afarinesh zeh yek goharan

I am not a Baha’i

Not that there’s something wrong with being Baha’i, but this is becoming a boring trend to defend a belief by assimilating to that. Why we cannot keep our ideological identity, yet to be able to defend other’s rights and integrity?

I am not a Baha’i, but I believe they should have every right to believe and practice whatever their faith is, until it does not harm others.

Bahais are extremists

Religion should be in service of man and not the other way around.

For countless Bahais, their kids have to be discriminated against In Iran simply because of their religion.

If these Bahais had any spirit of Iranian in them, they would not subject their kids to the same problems.  They would encourage their kids to adopt Islam and "get on with their lives."

But they choose instead to force their kids to suffer what they themselves suffered, something no true Iranian would ever do to their kids!

Regarding my earlier comments: I am saying that a person could hold onto their beliefs but in an environment where the religion is suffered, that person should do what is in the best interest of his kids

PS: Richard Dawkins would back me up. That is enough for me.

Dear Azadeh

I wish we were That "organized"!

because Ultimately to bring Unity within so much Diversity,  The world needs unity of purpose together with Organised effort.

best

faryar 

I too am a Baha'i

(although I'm against all organised religions.)

Azadeh

Well said Kharmagas

That one was so true!

unity is the answer...

The tabernacle of unity hath been raised; regard ye not one another as strangers. Ye are the fruits of one tree, and the leaves of one branch.

We are all Iranians and belong to human family.

Oh, by the way I am a Bahai too:)))

Regards for all,

Tahirih

I am not a Bahai

Absolute majority of Bahais from my generation were mistreated (during the Shah and more systematically during IRI) without provoking anyone or any system......   from that perspective it would be unfair of me to claim I am a Bahai..... could I have been that patient? I doubt it. 

I am really trying hard

to be a Baha'i !

You bet I'm a Baha'i too and proud of it!

and some of my close friends are Baha'i.

I am a Bahai too ...

Even though I do not believe in any institutionalized form of faith.  Thanks for this blog JJ.

Who is a Baha í?

Abdul Baha says, a Bahai is simply a person who loves the world and tries to serve Mankind, so there are many Baha'is in the world eventhough they do nor bear the name,

Oh My!!!

Mannya2001,

Your last statement said it all! Indeed you contradicted yourself ! This is ridiculous.

You said :

I would actually ask my kids to explore Islam instead of forcing my ways and thinking on my kids and have them suffer too......

While you said in your #1 and #2 statements:

I actually have principles that I deeply stick with and they cannot be shaken or waven with the winds of time or per convenience ....I am not a Bahai, because I am willing to take all the hardship that comes with sticking to my religion.

And you want the Bahai do not stick with their principle? Why?

Do you, yourself, at least understand what you are saying here?

And also you said:

A weak person who is always in need of a higher power to watch out for him/her....

You mean Muslim are not in need for that higher power?

Where did you buy this new Islam that we don't know?

HG: Thank you for that

HG: Thank you for that info. Some people

Hate is a coward's response to fear--Ghandi

I am an Irani

Son of an Iranian and of Iranian heritage, I will defend the rights of Iranians to practice their religion as long as it does not interfere with the rights of others.

The Baha'i have every right to practice their religion. No more persecution' no more IRR.

I am an Irani

Son of an Iranian and of Iranian heritage, I will defend the rights of Iranians to practice their religion as long as it does not interfere with the rights of others.

The Baha'i have every right to practice their religion. No more persecution' no more IRR.

mannya

you made your case for not being bahai.  but i'm glad that you use the azadi/shahyad monument for an avatar designed by hossein amanat, a bahai and a very good architect.  "azadi" is just another monument for iran in the name of bahais.  thanks for "not" supporting open-mindedness ;)

Re: Reactions tell all...

First, I am a man.

Second, you are right in that reactions do indeed tell all. When you alleged a load of unsubstantiated conspiracy theory, I countered with documents that are replete with sources, both non-Baha'i and Baha'i. In response to that, you gave some ambiguous retort about how you have some kind of information at your disposal that is "not readily available to those who own the media" (by the way, where is your proof that we own the media?). So where is that rare evidence? If it trumps all Baha'i counterarguments heretofore made in public venues, why not bring them forth and silence us once and for all?

Yes Guard, reactions do indeed tell all. I react with common sense and legitimate substantiated documents. You react with reiteration of baseless forgeries and allusions to tracts that may not even exist. Thank you for reminding the IC community of how telling reactions really are. :)

By the way, here's a great debunker of the whole "Russian" and Dolgorukov myth: //www.fis-iran.org/fa/irannameh/volxxiv/iss4-mixed/yazdani

Dear Immortal,

Dear Immortal,

Have you been privy to anything else except, propoganda;

for example, History?

if The Islamic Republic or any one actually had or was "privy" to any credible shred of evidence  in the past 100 years, and actually had something credible, the world would know it by now, and there would not be One Bahai left in the world, never mind over 200  who have refused to recant their faith and been executed. by your people and their shameful excuse in the Name of Islam and God.

In your opinion , are these people spies or think they gave their lives for a foreign country or for a belief in faith and love?

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6LwbauCrG8

I am NOT a Bahai

1. I actually have principles that I deeply stick with and they cannot be shaken or waven with the winds of time or per convenience

2. I am not a Bahai, because I am willing to take all the hardship that comes with sticking to my religion. 

3. I am a Muslim and did not hide it or take cover when 911 happened

4. I am not a Bahai, because if I were to leave Islam, I would actually become an agnostic instead

5. I am not a Bahai, because only a weak person can leave Islam and adopt Judaism, Chrisitanity or Bahai.  A weak person who is always in need of a higher power to watch out for him/her

6. I am not a Bahai, because if I feel that the government of IRI is actually harrassing my kids and keeping them away from universities, I would actually ask my kids to explore Islam instead of forcing my ways and thinking on my kids and have them suffer too

We are all Bahais. Let these

We are all Bahais. Let these people be. Leave them alone.

Immortal Guard, how old are you?

When a majority of a country moves to another land? Like what? Full blown invasion?

And what do you gain by repeating the same baseless accusations and propaganda. We have seen these kinds of accusations against any opposition to the regime. I suppose you are just a regime supporter. i.e. an enemy of Iran.

Reactions tell all...

Mrs. Masumian.......

I think the tone of your voice and your choice of words tell all!

I am privy to the kind of information that is not readily available to those who own the media!

As I said I advocate full citizenship rights for the Bahais, but they have once proven their true colors. They should not be permitted in future to betray the majority again! I neither care about Islam nor Shiism, but the fact of the matter is that the majority of Iranians are Muslims and Shiites.

Please yourselves!

Immoral Guard; you must know something; Please send by fedex

You must have just received the evidence in the last few hours to support this age old accusation against Bahais..

Kindly Fedex them to Iran, since no one has ever presented anythng that holds up.

It wold also be good , so that the Islamic republic has something in hand in the next show trial session and post a copy here so that I can tell my children that I am spy, without knowing it, as well as millions of Bahais around the world.

Please remember not to use the Russian Dolgruki evidence for sure because of this :

"The foundation of many of the conspiracy theories relating the Bahá'í Faith to Russian influence is a fictitious memoir that is attributed to Dimitri Ivanovich Dolgorukov (also known as Dolgourki), who was the Russian ambassador to Persia from 1846 to 1854.[19][21] The memoir states that Dolgorukov created the Bábí and Bahá'í religions so as to weaken Iran and Shi'a Islam.[21] The document, in many ways, is the functional equivalent of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, which was a fraudulent anti-Semitic tract alleging a Jewish plot to achieve world domination.[21] The fictional memoir was first published in 1943 in Persian in Mashhad, and shortly thereafter published again in Tehran with some of the most glaring historical errors corrected. The book still, however, contains many historical errors and it is inconceivable that it is real.[19]

The memoir states that Dolgorukov used to attend gatherings of Hakím Ahmad Gílání, where he would meet Bahá'u'lláh. However, Gílání had died in 1835, which was three years before Dolgorukov's arrival in the country. There are numerous other errors relating to the dates and times of events that the memoir describes; the memoir describes events after the death of personages, or when the people involved were young children, or when they were in different parts of the world.[19]

Dolgorukov actually only became aware of the Bábí movement three years after in started in 1847, and his dispatches show that he was afraid of the movement spreading into the Caucasus, and asked that the Báb being moved away from the Russian border.[19][41] In 1852, after the assassination plan against the Shah failed and the entire Bábí community was blamed, many Bábís including Bahá'u'lláh who had no role in the attempt and later severely condemned it, were arrested in a sweep.[42] When Bahá'u'lláh was jailed by the Shah, his family went to Mírzá Majid Ahi who was married to a sister of Bahá'u'lláh,[43] and was working as the secretary to the Russian Legation in Tehran. Bahá'u'lláh's family asked Mírzá Majid to go to Dolgorukov and ask him to intercede on behalf of Bahá'u'lláh, and Dolgorukov agreed.[43]

After Dolgorukov, as well as the Grand Vizier of Persia, both pressured the Shah to either produce evidence against Bahá'u'lláh or release him, Nasirid-Din Shah agreed to free Bahá'u'lláh, but decreed that he be banished from Iran.[43] Dolgorukov offered Bahá'u'lláh and his family the opportunity to migrate to Russia but Bahá'u'lláh refused. Instead, he chose to go to Iraq where there was a significant Shi'a Muslim population.[44]

The memoirs, however, extend this assistance to all facets of Bahá'u'lláh's life. In one edition of the faked memories, Dolgorukov is said to have provided money for Bahá'u'lláh to build a house in Acre, but Dolgorukov died in 1867, before Bahá'u'lláh arrived in Acre. Thus newer editions of the memoir state that Dolgorukov sent money for a house to be built in Edirne.[19] As Dolgorukov left the Russian diplomatic service in 1854 and died in 1867, he was unable to interact with Bahá'u'lláh in ways which the memoir states.[19"

Come to think of it...don't use any of the idiotic figments of the Mullahs' imagination..they have all fallen to pieces under academic scrutiny.

I have an idea for you..

Why not start saying something new?

So instead of "The Bahais were first created by the Russians, then they were used by the British and the last 15 years of Shah's reign were Zionist agents."

Spread the news that they are now Chinese Spies, then try and contact some of your geniuses in the ministry of silly lies and make up a document or a book about how Baha'u'llah went to the China...or somethng like that...i am sure they can create something more credible.

Oh..wait may be China is too far...How about Canada or India?

Any way , just trying to help..

faryarm

PS

its not so bad being in the minority; one gets used to it...as it seems

you soon will have to...

Also...if you are an advanced planner, let me know since I have some Bahai relatives in Venezuela who could do a house swap with any one who will be leaving Iran soon, just in case their stolen property is not immediately available.

looking forward to the fedex

second day standard is fine...

faryarm

I pray for them

May God help Yaran and all the Bahais in Iran. May all this ends very soon and peacefully. May God bring to them and to their family, patience and strength. May soon we will have a free Iran, a land where all human being will be free to preach any religion they want and to live a free life.