خوش آمدید

Jamshid ...

Re: Firing Squad

I believe scb was mentioning the "Execution of the Ba'b" ( Seyyed Ali Muhammad ) which was happend on July 9 1850 in City Of Tabriz.

May I Share this with you? Here is What happened:

"" The firing squad was made up of 750 Armenian soldiers, split into three rows and was under the command of Sam Khan. Sam Khan had become increasingly affected by his Prisoner and spoke with him privately telling Him that he was a Christian and had no ill-will against Him. Sam Khan said "If Your Cause be the Cause of Truth, then enable me to free myself from the obligation to shed your blood." The Báb replied, "Follow your instructions; and if your intention be sincere, the Almighty is surely able to relieve you of your perplexity."

The Báb and a young companion were suspended from a nail by ropes for execution by a firing squad of three ranks of 250 rifles each; a total of 750 rifles. Sam Khan, unable to avoid his duty, gave the order to fire. When the smoke cleared, the crowd of 10,000 persons was amazed to find the Báb's companion standing, alive and unhurt, the ropes severed by the bullets. The Báb was nowhere to be seen. He was found, back in His cell, finishing His business with His secretary. The Báb then said to the guard, "I have finished My conversation. You may now proceed to fulfill your duty." The guard, remembering the rebuke he had received earlier, resigned his post, shaken to the core and cut himself off from the enemies of the Bab.

Sam Khan, likewise removed himself and his regiment from this duty declaring, "I refuse ever again to associate myself and my regiment with any act which involves the least injury to the Bab." A colonel of the bodyguard then volunteered to carry out the execution. The Báb was again taken to the execution ground and suspended as before, and a new regiment brought in. Again the rifles fired. This time the bodies of the Báb and His companion were shattered by the blast. The bodies were thrown at the edge of a moat outside the city and guarded so that none of His followers could claim His remains. Two days after the execution His followers were able to recover the bodies, hid them in a specially made wooden case, and kept them in a place of safety.""

From: Release the Sun by William Sears

Regard,Mona

Dear "Jamshid" - (Follow Up)

I Believe That The Primary "Purpose" Of Any Faith Should Be To Act As A "Vehicle" To Bring "Transcendence" In To People's Lives ..

By "Transcendence" I Mean The "Experience" of "Divine" ..

However, If Any Faith, Rather Than Being A "Vehicle" For "Transcendence", Becomes An "End To Itself", then That Faith Becomes More and More Like A "Cult" ..

By that I Mean It Becomes More Important For The Faith Members To "Concentrate" On The Faith Itself, Rather Than Seeking The "Divine" ..

Back In The 1970's, Jim Jones, A "Christian" Preacher With A Church In San Fransisco, Turned His Followers In To A Cult Of Jim Jones ..

Ultimately, His Followers Together With him Committed Suicide  In mass In Guayana ..

I Am In No Way, shape Or Form trying To Compare "Bahai'ism" To The Jim Jones Cult ..

However, What I Am Trying To Do Is To Demonstarte To You The "Extremism" Of Some Cults ..

I Hope That Has Answered Your Question ..

Tks Again .. :)

P.S. After Our Discussion Tonight, I Was "Inspired" To Write This Poem:

//iranian.com/main/blog/shaer/vehicle-transcendence-my-faith

I "Edited" This Comment To Include the "P.S." Afterwards ..

Hope You Enjoy It .. :)

Re: scb and shaer

scb:

Who are you talking about? Who was executed by firing squad?

Shaer:

Sorry, but I couldn't understand the part about transcendence, end to itself, and cult. I lost you there, specially the "end to itself" thing.

The part that I did understand and I agree with is how come we know so little about this faith? I think maybe Bahais are forced into not educating others because of the grave consequences? But what about here in the US? When I was in my late 20s, my Bahai friends in the US didnt' talk about their faith or history or even their persecution by the IRI.

I wish I could meet some of those friends again. I am sure Bahais have evolved like everyone else as a result of this revolution. It would be interesting to meet some of these old friends and see where they stand today.

Dear "Jamshid"

I Have read The Discussion Between you And Others Regarding The Subject Of Bahai'ism In The Past few  Comments ..

I want to share with You A Couple Of Ideas In The Hopes That They Could Provide Some "Constructive" Path forward ..

I Want You to know That As An "Iranian", My Knowledge Of The Bahai'i Faith was Somewhat Limited ..

The Historical Background Of The Bahai'i faith As Descibed Here Is "Foreign" To many Iranians ..

By that I Mean Many Iranians, including Myself, Have Not Been Too Familiar With The "Intricacies" Of The Bahai'i Faith, And Its "Indirect" Link To Islam ..

I Believe That Our Bahai'i Brothers And Sisters Would Do Themselves A Great Deal Of "Good" If They "Educated" People More About Their Faith ..

Secondly, I Personally Believe That Any Faith, Whether Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Or Others, Should First and Formost Serve  As A "Vehicle" For "Transcendence" In People's Lives ..

However, When Any Faith, Rather Than Being A "Vehicle" For "Transcendence", Becomes An "End To Itself", then That Faith Becomes More and More Like A "Cult" ..

I Saw That "Repeatedly" With Various Faiths When I Was A Student At U.C. Berkeley Many Years Ago ..

Unfortunately, I Have To Say That The "Zeal" That Many Of Our Bahai'i Brothers And Sisters Show Makes One Wonder Whether The Faith Is Acting As A "Vehicle" For "Transcendence", Or An "End To Itself" ..

Again, Whether This Is The Case Or Not, At The Very Minimum This Is The "Perception" That Many Have ..

As I Have said, I Hope That Our Bahai'i Sisters and Brothers Pay Attention To educating Us More about Their Faith ..

This Comment Is Meant To Serve As A "Constructive" Path Forward ..

If anything that I Have said Has Offended Anyone,  I Would Like To "Apologize" Ahead Of Time ..

Many Thanks To You All .. :)

Baha'i School Children

I celebrate free discussion here!
How sad it is to see Iranians under such oppression, be they Muslim, Baha'i or any other religion. However, the removal of Baha'i school children is a barometer of this oppression. We must speak against the injustice of it.

Isn't it striking how little many Iranians know of the Faith born in their homeland, a Faith experienced the execution of one of its Founders by firing squad, exiled and imprisonment of the Other, twenty thousands of its followers killed (in 19th century) and YET. . . .

Millions of (non-Iranian) Baha'is around the world have learned the intense beauties of Iran culture due to these sacrifices

By (Baha'i) Law, Baha'is must obey even a government hostile to them and may not defend themselves even in the face of religious persecution. This is why I appeal to each person here for these and all oppressed children. Please support H. Res 1008 by writing to your Congressman. See //www.bahai.us/house-resolution.
- s.

Re: Me too

I agree with you. But I still fail to see why have you concluded that Bahais are considering the attention needed to their persecution superior than others?

I am an Iranian and I care more for Iran than say Chile or India. But that does not mean that I feel Iranians are superior and that their persecution need more attention. It only means that I am an Iranian and my priority is Iran. And yes, I will spend 90% of my time voicing Iran's concerns, and perhaps the remainig 10% for others. It is both natural and fair.

Does that mean that let's say an Iraqi can come forward and say I am tired of hearing all this "Iranians are being oppressed stuff, what make you Iranians think your persecution is superior?", etc.

I encourage you to read this woman's article again and ask yourself where does she say that Bahais are more important? Then ask yourself how else can she voice the far more severe IRI mistreatment that they are enduring in Iran?

Instead of droping a grain of salt on their wounds, we can instead choose to be a grain of medicine by supporting their, and in general each other's causes.

jamshid ....

I urge you not to miss the 'Forest' for the 'Tree'.

If you look at the history of Bahai'ism, although it is an 'independent' religion, nevertheless its coming about was foretold by a fellow named 'Bab', who claimed to be the twelfth Imam.

Although I am personally not too keen on any of this stuff, nevertheless one can see that a regime such as the one that exists in Iran could become highly offended, and become extremely 'Hostile' to the Bahai'is due to 'their 'Indirect' link to Islam.

If you read the history of 'Mormonism' in U.S., it is not that different to what happened to the Bahai'is in Iran. Initially, there was great 'Hostility' towards them, but over time, it 'Subsided'. The only difference is that the Mormons had a head start relative to the Bahai'is, and that the U.S. Society is a much more tolerant Society.

Please don't be agitated by the 'Emotional' aspect of this argument. I am fully aware of the persecution of the Bahai'is and other 'Minorities' in Iran. Nevertheless, one group's 'Persecution' should not be considered 'Superior' to another group's 'Persecution' given the historical perspective that I have mentioned.

I have enjoyed our discussion here. Good luck to you.

Re: Me too

Quote from your post:

 "Bahai'ism is very much becoming like Judaism where if you criticize them, you automatically are labelled 'Anti-Semite' and 'Anti-Bahai'i'."

Anti-semitism refers to a race. Anti-bahai does not. There is a difference between being against a race and being against a religion. Of course when you criticize any religion X, you'll be called anti-X. What's so special about this "discovery"?

Also, I don't recall Bahai's to be of one specific race nor do they consider themselves to be a "chosen" people. So please be fair in your comparisions.

Do you even know what the IRI is doing to Bahais? Are you telling me that they should sit idle like lambs waiting in line to be slaughtered and do nothing about it? All so that you feel comfortable that when they are citicized nobody dares call the criticizer "anti-Bahai"? What term do you suggest to use instead?

jamshid ....

There are no agendas for me.

I came across this article, and saw a comment by 'Approached By Missionaries', and decided to share with him that I had a similar experience.

Bahai'ism is very much becoming like Judaism where if you criticize them, you automatically are labelled 'Anti-Semite' and 'Anti-Bahai'i'.

I hope you are more 'Sophisticated' than that.

To: Me too

I happened to have had many Bahai friends, both in Iran before the revolution, and in the US afterward.

Not once did they talk to me about religion or Baha, let alone sweet talking me for conversion. Additionally, I have had other friends during my 20s that shared the same experience.

Besides, there is nothing wrong with preaching one's religion. It is one of the pillars of a democratic society. It seems to me that it is YOU who has an agenda by bad mouthing Bahais.

Share your agenda with me, I'll be interested to know.

Nadia ....

He or She doesn't make any difference.

I really don't know this person's gender, it is the ideas that are important.

Arrivedercci :O)

Mona 19 ....

Your 'Evangelization' attempts are obvious.

As you may know, many view Bahai'ism not much different than a 'Cult'. As 'Approached By Missionaries' indicated, not too dissimilar from 'Mormonism'.

All I wanted to do was to confirm that others have experienced what he shared with us.

Good day to you :O)

Re: Me too......how do you

know that 'Approached By Missionaries' is a "he"? :o) I too can make observations and have my eyes wide open.

Solh va Doosti (paz a vosotros)

Adios, Aurevoir, ciao and bye..........

Nadia

To: "Me too" & "Approached by Missinories" :)))

I'm not only a SPY and AGENT but also I am a SORCERE who have a Special MAGIC .....:)

I always mix Mysterious Substance in people drinks that make EVERY ONE who drinks it fall for my charm..... :)))))))

Please Don't be Jealous .....I LOVE YOU too My Dear ones.....You're so FUNNY :)

GREAT POSTS :)

Nadia ......

No one is afraid of anything. 'Approached By Missionaries' made an observation, and I tend to agree with him.

That simple.

P.S. Please keep your eyes open. For your own sake. Ciao :O)

Interesting.....

Re: Me too and Approached by Missionaries.......

 "Fear is the main source of superstition, and one of the main sources of cruelty. To conquer fear is the beginning of wisdom."

                   -Bertrand Russell

What is your ulterior motive for your comments? Inquiring minds want to know..............

By the way, no one can convert anyone into anything without their consent in the U.S.

Solh va Doosti (paz a vosotros)

Nadia

Good Point................

I had a similar experience to that described by 'Approached By Missionaries'.

There is an Ulterior Motive behind all these 'Niceness' and 'Sweetness'.

I am sorry to say this, but a person has to be totally stupid not to notice it.

Personal Experience

Several years ago when I was living in Florida, I was approached by two (2) Missionaries who belonged to the Mormon Church. Initially, they were very nice and polite, but as soon as they found out that I was not interested to convert to their faith, they lost interest in me. I never heard from them again.

Although I have never been approached by Bahai'i Missionaries, a couple of my friends who have been, have told me the same story.

If you look throughout this site, you see numerous nice and sweet Comments by the Bahai'i people that we know of. Some of these comments seem to be boiler-plate, Copied and Pasted without even much change.

I wonder how our Bahai'i friends would react once they realize that the people that they are being Nice and Sweet to, may not necessarliy be interested to Convert to their faith. Would our Bahai'i friends still be Nice and Sweet to these people as before, or would they lose interest and ignore them.

I hope you get my point.

Nadia Jan :)

You're very Thoughtful and a Sweet Heart :)))

Thank You soooooooooooo Much for the Beautiful Quotation.

Wishing you a GREAT Day,Mona

Potential of every child...........

"No one has yet fully realized the wealth of sympathy, kindness, and generosity hidden in the soul of a child.  The effort of every true educator should be to unlock that treasure."

           -Emma Goldman

Every adult that comes into contact with a child is a teacher whether it is done directly or indirectly.  What is it that we want the children to learn? Where will the chain of pain, sorrow, hate............be broken? .........or will it be allowed to continue with every new generation?.......the time is here and now.........

Solh va Doosti (paz a vosotros)

Nadia

O My Loving Friends!...

...Consort with all the peoples, kindreds and religions of the world with the utmost truthfulness, uprightness, faithfulness, kindliness, good-will and friendliness; that all the world of being may be filled with the holy ecstasy of the grace of Bahá, that ignorance, enmity, hate and rancor may vanish from the world and the darkness of estrangement amidst the peoples and kindreds of the world may give way to the Light of Unity. Should other peoples and nations be unfaithful to you show your fidelity unto them, should they be unjust toward you show justice towards them, should they keep aloof from you attract them to yourself, should they show their enmity be friendly towards them, should they poison your lives sweeten their souls, should they inflict a wound upon you be a salve to their sores. Such are the attributes of the sincere! Such are the attributes of the truthful...

Page 10, //reference.bahai.org/en/t/se/BA/ba-5.html.is...

Dear LostIdentity...

...I'd like to Thank You for reading my last blog, I do appreciate it, and many thanks for your BEAUTIFUL poem.

With Loving Greetings,Mona :)

Re: Farzad and Faryarn

Thank you both for your kind replies.

I took a look at Farzad's link for the "secret of civilization" text. I read the first and last sublinks. It was very surprising and educational, as I have very little knowledge of Baha.

For jamshid: the secret of divine civilisation

The Secret of Divine Civilization is a book written in 1875 by `Abdu'l-Bahá, addressed to the rulers and the people of Persia. It is considered to be part of the authoritative religious text of the Bahá'í Faith.

The original text was written under an anonymous author, and the first English translation was published in London in 1910, and Chicago in 1918, under the title Mysterious Forces of Civilization written by "an Eminent Bahai Philosopher."[1]. The currently used translation was completed by Marzieh Gail and published in 1957, with an introduction by Horace Holley.

The book was widely known in its time as an attempt to improve the degraded condition of Persia. The author frequently references current issues that were being debated, such as whether to modernize and accept Western technology, or to reject Western culture and rely on technology developed in Persia and the Islamic world.

See the full online text here.

To Jamshid

Here is the link to the book: //reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SDC/

Civilization? I don't know

Civilization? I don't know what it means anymore in this perplexed materialistic society.
I refer you to find it in ants' colony!

To anyone

What is this "The Secret of Divine Civilization" that some people are quoting in here?

To : IRANdokht

Wow!!!

 That's it!

 Would you marry me?

:-)

Ali P.

Remember the words: Truly,

Remember the words:
Truly, the purpose of life is to have a belief....and strive for it.

The weak loose faith;
The strong imposes his will on others;
The wise achieve excellence in life by helping others;
The ignorant fails in the trap of the strong to be used as a coersion object;

Who do I(or you) intend to be?

I beg mercy from god to make me wise and strong to see my weakness and ignorance and don't fall victim for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is what Islam teaches me;

How do you INTERPRET your religion?

Moosavi ra din Moosa be haqq;
Easavi ra maktabe Easa be haqq;
Berhami ra Brahma az jomle beh;
Nazd Buddhaee bovad Buddha be haqq;
Bot-parastan ra bot Ezzi o Laat;
Zandian ra din Mazdista be haqq;
Az Mosalman cho porsi gooyadat;
Din paak Ahmadi tanha be haqq;
Sufi o Sunni o Shia hamchenaan;
Jomleghee gooyand kish ma be haqq;
ka nagooya rah baatel miravam;
har kasi gooya manam oola be haqq;
doosh goftam in kherad in majara;
ke kodamin haqq? kodamin na be haqq?
goft har dini ke ba man raast bood;
oo bovad bi shak dar in donya be haqq;
pas bia ey dar ta'assob ghootevar;
ta be key gooee tow na haqq, ma be haqq;
dar tarazooye kherad dinat be sanj;
ta bedani na haqq asti ya be haqq;
maghz khod ra kon tohi ze afsaneha;
ta be asaani shavi dana be haqq;

Peace;

As we can see.....

several on this thread have demonstrated the meaning of intolerance.

It is truly sad when religion or politics becomes more valuable than a person's life. Especially, the children because all they did was be born into a world that tends to want to dehumanize and marginalize others.

Solh va Doosti (paz a vosotros)

Nadia