Monda

Dear Monda,

Most jokes are made by those who know the culture of each specific ethnic group well. Most Turkish jokes are made by the Turks, Lori jokes by the Lors, Jewish, Italian, Isfahani jokes are made by the Jews, Italians and Isfahanis, respectively. Simply because they know their own cultures best. I doubt there is any basis for the conspiracy theory of divide and rule suggested by some friends, here. P.S. I liked the title!

Azadeh jan, I still disagree

Azadeh jan, thanks for your comment which part of it was addressed to me. I am not saying do not criticize our culture but  I think that some times our intellectuals are over reaching. Every country has their jokes and poems but you do not see women getting stoned. Like in US we have Southern joke. I think trying to blame Rashti jokes for some attitudes is over simplification of Iranian society's ills and does disservice to society. Obviously, people are free to criticize our poems and jokes but it seems that now there is an effort by some intellectulas to actually censor our poems and jokes.

Sometimes jokes can talk about an issue before it is well accepted by society. I think many people in Iran know that those Iranians who live close to borders and particulrly have access to water, therefore are in contact with more people from other cultures, people know those Iranians are more open minded and they realize that is the reason that Rashti man acts different. Let' s give our people some credit, they are not idiots. Censoring jokes and poems will not solve society's ills. Censor is business of IRI. Our intellectuals need to address the real problems not the imagined ones.

Scandinavian wife jokes:

آخرین جوک رشتی را که شنیده اید به خاطر بیاورید و به جای "مرد رشتی" یک "مرد سوئدی" را در آن قرار دهید. آیا بازهم بانمک و خنده دار است؟

The Swedes and Norwegians are always making jokes about each other.  

Sven came home to his apartment one night, all Upset. "Tha janitor, what a bragger. He says he's made love to every woman in this building except one."
"Hmmph," said his wife. "Must be that snooty Mrs.Johnson on the second floor."

There was this Swede who once got home and found his wife in bed with another man. He was so angry that he got a gun and pointed it to his own head. "NO! Don't do that," his wife begged. "Shut up woman! You'll be next," the angry Swede replied.

Sexist Rashti jokes are degrading to every Iranian

Monda Jan: Thank you for posting Soheila Vahdati's excellent article.

Dear readers: Please note that the above article is not about Iranian ’’ethnic jokes,’’ or ‘’malicious jokes,’’ or ‘’culturally divisive jokes.’’ It is about backward Rashti jokes that are male-chauvinistic, sexist and degrading to all of us.

Dear Anahid: I’d like to make a friendly objection to your comment whereby you are in fact inviting the contributors not to criticise our male chauvinistic culture because ‘’the IRI leaders’’ could benefit from it. This is exactly the same wrong attitude the Iranian Left adopted regarding the women’s issues during the 70’s: Let’s fight the Shah and American Imperialism *before* dealing with the male-female question; let’s not give the enemy an occasion to use  ‘’ our divisions’’ against ourselves, etc, etc. You are overlooking the fact that the ‘’IRI leaders’’ are Iranians like you and I, that we are all carrying within us the same cultural tendencies towards male chauvinism and despotism, that it is only through self-criticism that we can change our political culture.

We need to understand that any criticism of our cultural flaws are always healthy, that the Iranian society and its politics are not black and white, and that each of us is culturally half-victim, half-collaborator, to paraphrase Sartre.

You say, ‘’Rashti jokes are around, shows that there are parts of Iran where men don't get all crazy upon seeing "their" women with other men. To me that is positive message. It may make others think that if Rashtis are like that, why not others?’’ This is such a weak argument, Anahid Jan. Knowing that Rashti men  lack male chauvinistic zeal and jealousy, when it is ridiculed through jokes, cannot logically lead to thinking that there are other men like them. And even if it did, the joke would apply to those other men as well. So, what good could possibly come out of these sexist jokes?

Finally, do you seriously think that eliminating Rashti jokes will leave us with only sad stories? Iranians have a great sense of humour; they can make, and are already making, plenty of funny IRI jokes to keep all of us amused :-). Thanks for reading.

Cheers,

Azadeh 

«غزل داستان سالهای بد»

I would love to re-read his book if I can get a hold of it, read it once  37 years ago, let me know if you can find it.

«غزل داستان سالهای بد»

This time it did land on my to-read list. merci Majid.

Azarin jan, you asking me?!

I'm half Turk, so you have my permission :o)

At least the focus of Turk jokes being their khariyat, hasn't implied, a) namoos/ chauvenism  b) murder as directly or savagely.(Not considering Moghols as the Turks which you and I joke about.)

If we take Khariat as Ignorance, yes that does kill. But the Turk Khariat is of endearing nature, almost childlike and innocent. 

تفرقه بیانداز و حکومت کن

متاسفانه ایران با داشتن نفت همیشه مورد غارت قرار ګرفته است و سیاستمدداران خارجی و وابسته ګان داخلی آنان با یک برنامه ریزی بسیار پیشرفته راه را برای غارت ایران و شاید همه خاورمیانه هموار کرده اند که ما با هم متفق نباشیم  کلاهبردار  خود خواه  خود باور تمامیت خواه مغرور الکی و متعصب  بی مایه باشیم تا آنان سر فرصت مار ا غارت بفرمایند. دیوانه ګی های مردم  و ظلم و ستم بهم و مسخره کرده هم و حسادت های ریشه دار همه شاید از این محور ریشه ګرفته باشد .  در حالیکه سیاه سفید زرد سرخ در آمریکا یک ملت متحده و ولایات متحده هستند  ما که همه دارای یک فرهنګ مثلا یک دین و یک ریشه هستیم  خودرا از هم جدا و متحد نیستیم  

First poets were blamed and now jokes

Recently I have read that Persian poets are to blame for some of the ill treatment of women in Iran and now Rashti jokes are blamed. IRI leaders must be happy about this and telling themselves that they are getting away with murder. I agree with Roozbeh that when hearing these jokes, one does not hear malice. Also just the fact that these Rashti jokes are around, shows that there are parts of Iran where men don't get all crazy upon seeing "their" women with other men. To me that is positive message. It may make others think that if Rashtis are like that, why not others? So now, if Rashti jokes are eliminated, then all we have is stories like sad stories in this blog. Ghatlhaye namoosi, is that what we want?

what a joke!

Although born and raised in narmak, my parents were from Gilan, so I have large family back there and still visit beautiful Gilan when back home for a visist. I believe one source of "rashti Jokes" go back to the fact that women in Gilan , traditionally work the farms. Anyone familiar with  the labour intensive process of Rice cultivation would realise that it'd be very difficult to wear the hijab whilst working at a rice paddy. Hence the somehow confused reaction of visitors to Gilan seeing all the Gilani women out in the field not wearing hijabs with few men to be seen! The nasty romours and jokes followed! I also believe that Gilanis have been quite ahead of most other regions of Iran in terms of acceptance of modern ideas of  socialism, liberalism and secularism, otherwise viewed with hostility in conservative shia Iranian society.

Although I have always avoided these regional Jokes whilst I was in Iran and also since living abroad, I dont really recall any occasion when these jokes were intended to be malicious. It seems to me that Tehrani people like to Joke about provincial folks. Just part of our character I guess!

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

این رو یکبار دیگه در کامنتی نوشته ام.

نادر ابراهیمی در کتاب «غزل داستان سالهای بد» اشاره ای باین مضمون میکند که: زرنگی و حاضر جوابی اصفهانی ها، غیرت و غرور کرد ها، ساده دلی و خوش قلبی لُر ها، مهمان نوازی گیلک ها ظرف یکی دو روز یا یکی دو هفته اقامت و حشر و نشر با آنها کاملاً ملموس هست، ولی بیغیرتی رشتی ها و خریّت ترکها؟

وقتی نیّت سوء و قصد فرافکنی در میان باشد اوّل باید از تفرقهء فرهنگی شروع کرد که کار تفرقهء جغرافیایی را آسان تر کرد!

وقتی برای بومیان آذری زمینه فراهم کرد که «بقیّهء این ملّت ترا ابله و هالو تصوّر میکنند» و به گیلک ها القاء کرد که «تو مظهر بی ناموسی این مملکتی» بالقوّه اولین خشت این جدائی فرهنگی را گذاشته ای! زمینه را فراهم کرده ای که آن ترک و رشتی خودش را کمتر وابسته باین کشور که یکپارچه او را احمق و بیغیرت میدانند بداند!

و با اشاعهء همه گیر این مقوله فرصت را فراهم کن برای قطع آسان سر این گربه«ایران» و سواحل ارزشمند جنوب خزر!

Well said!

I will never laugh again at any Rashti jokes...but how about the Azari ones?