US downplays IDF hopes of parting gifts
Jerusalem Post
12-May-2008 (18 comments)

The speculation that Bush would give Israel a grocery cart full of state-of-the-art weaponry or technology is coming from those eager to receive the goods, not from those on the giving end, the source said.

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Q

Israel is eager for US weapons handout

by Q on

Will Bush neglect the "duty" and "obligation" of American Presidents to make sure Israel has bigger weapons than anyone else? Doubt it!


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Jaleho

Be Ashamed of Israel

by Jaleho on

Mr. Mazloom, much to your chagrin Palestinians DO EXIST, and they have existed for thousands of years. They are the people who lived in Palestine, doh!

Look, I give you the exact historical documents which you can look up, and credible links to back my words. You do the same instead of empty erroneous slogans please.

Concerning the claim that Jews only respected parts of the international agreement to further their illegitimate grip over the land of others...Ben Gurion went to NY in 1942 (Biltmore Program), to reformulate the Zionist original plan of colonization of Palestine. The American Zionist used the WWII as a foundation to open Palestine to unlimited Jewish immigration (playing MAZLOOM), hence creating a Jewish majority in Palestine, despite the objections of the native Palestinians. But, the Jews did not even adhere to the PRO-JEWISH recommendations of the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry which followed by their push in the UN:

The Anglo_American Committee of Inquiry after WW2:
Recommendations and Comments (May, 1, 1946) Its recommendations (too long for the whole thing, but here's the essence):
The European Problem, NO.1: ...Countries other than Palestine gave no hope of substantial assistance in finding homes for Jews wishing or impelled to leave Europe. But, Palestine alone cannot meet the emigration needs of the Jewish victims of Nazi persecutions; the whole world shares the responsibility for them and the resettlement of all "displaced persons" {Ironical that Palestine took the burden(by force), and Israel remains the one country in the world which doesn't want to address the resettlement of 4 million Palestinian "displaced persons"}...
Frankly, In our view the mass emigration of all European Jews would be of service neither to the Jews themselves nor to Europe. Every effort should be made to enable the Jews to rebuild their shattered communities...

Refugee Immigration into Palestine, No.2: We recommend that (a)100,000 certificates be immediately authorized for the admission into Palestine of Jews who have been the victims of Nazi persecution...

Principle of Government: No Arab, No Jewish State,
No. 3: ...(1) The Jew shall not dominate Arab, and Arab shall not dominate Jew in Palestine. (2)That Palestine shall be neither a Jewish state nor an Arab state. (3) That the form of government ultimately to be established, shall under international guarantees, fully protect the interest in the Holy Land of Christendom and of the Moslem and Jewish faiths...
Mandate and UN Trusteeship, No.4: ...the hostility between Jews and Arabs, and the determination of each to achieve domination, if necessary by violence, makes it certain that, now and for some time to come, any attempt to establish an independent Palestinian state or an independent Palestinian states would result in a civil strife such as might threaten the peace of the world.We therefore recommend that, until the hostility disappears,
The government of Palestine be continued as at present under {British} mandate pending the execution of a trusteeship agreement under the United Nations...

Equity of Standards: No.5: ...in spirit of No3., the mandatory should proclaim the principle that Arab economic, educational and political advancement in Palestine is of equal importance with that of the Jews; and should at once bridge the gap which now exists and raise the Arab standard of living to that of the Jew...

Further Immigration Policy: No.6:...We reject the view that there shall be no further Jewish immigration into Palestine without Arab acquiescence {read NO.1 once more}, a view which would result in Arab dominating the Jew.
We also reject the insistent Jewish demand that forced Jewish immigration must proceed apace in order to produce as quickly as possible a Jewish majority and a Jewish State. The well-being of the Jews must not be subordinated to that of Arabs, nor that of Arabs to the Jews.....
---------------------------------------------------------
As you see again, the only part from this recommendations taken by Zionists were allowance for further Jewish immigration, and a hold off on the independent Palestinian State. The Jewish terrorist groups like Hagana and Irgun led by terrorists like Menachen Begin, bragged about their brutalities (like the massacre of Deir Yassin in 1948,) which " drove fear and panic in Arab populations, and led to the flight of unarmed civilians from their homes", WHICH ISRAELIS STOLE. Sorry you don't like to confront that FACT.

It took Zionists only one year from preventing an Independent Palestinian State, to be bold enough to ask creation of a Jewish State alongside a Palestinian State. A year later, the Partition resolution 181, Nov. 1947 was passed. Its major four points :
1. The Mandate for Palestine shall terminate...
2. Armed forces of the mandatory Power shall progressively withdrawn from Palestine...
3. Independent Arab and Jewish States and the Special International Regime for the City of Jerusalem...{The complete occupation of it has always been the desire of Zionists as the capital of the Greater Israel}..
4. {Transitional period}

As we can see from your post, you seem to be a "good Israeli" in that you refer to resolution 181 remembering only the independent Jewish part, and forgetting COMPLETELY the Palestinian state. That, despite the article you're referring to ends with the following statement:"IN the declaration concerning the Arab State, the words "by an Arab in the Jewish State" should be replaced by the word "by a Jew in the Arab State."

And Mr. Mazloom, you called my quote from UN articles as "Rubbish", then wrote the following rubbish yourself:

"International law allows the retention of land conquered in war, while that country was defending itself. There are enough documentary and on film evidence to show that, in 1948 war, Israel was defending itself from attack made by 6 Arab nations. That is the reason why no one ever tried to force them to give it back. Since the land was not part of a sovereign and legitimate country, Israel has kept it."

Again you choose to ignore the most famous of all the UN Resolutions on Arab-Israeli wars, Resolution 242, which starts as follows: "EMPHASIZING the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war...."

I will not argue further with you unless you state a valid reference to what you're talking about. And "valid reference" would not include the propaganda MOVIES the types of Spielberg propaganda, or the cry and distort "rubbish" of the FOX New. It must be HISTORICAL DOCUMENT, even if it is the FLAWED documents written and forced by the VICTORS of the WWII.


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Ashamed of...............

by Mehdi Mazloom (not verified) on

First, lets make few points very clear.

Those who now call themselves "Palestinians", they started doing so ONLY after 1967 war. Prior to that they were Arab & Muslims.

jaleho writes:
"Jews have always accepted only the part of international agreements which has been useful for them, and disregarded the rest of it which pertained to the Palestinian rights."

Doesn't every one else do the same? And what about Arabs, didn't they disregards Jews continued presence in the region.?

"The same UN institution that gave Israel's recognition (which must be null,
since Israel DID Not accept the conditions under which it was created out of other people's land), the same UN explicitly prohibits "acquisition of land by force", but you seem not to like any of the UN rule which goes against Israel, ha?"

Rubbish!. Israel was founded by the majority vote in UN on May 14 1948. That is legitimate and legal. International law allows the retention of land conquered in war, while that country was defending itself. There are enough documentary and on film evidence to show that, in 1948 war, Israel was defending itself from attack made by 6 Arab nations. That is the reason why no one ever tried to force them to give it back. Since the land was not part of a sovereign and legitimate country, Israel has kept it.

Israelis are not going to ask the permission, nor the approval of anyone whether they have the inalienable right to live under their own sovereignty. Period.

"stolen land"
Now, this is one of the hug wash accusation one can perpetuate. Do you realize that in past 500 years alone, more then 70% of the land mass on earth, its original inhabitants no longer own the land.
Why don't tell the entire American continent.Canada, US, Mexico, all the way to S. Pole. Australia, and part of Europe about "stolen Land".

"State of Legitimacy".
back in 1940, UN and League of nation had propoesed to divide the entire former Ottoman Empire in the ME & Gulf region into states as we know them today. All were Arab & Islamic and ONE Jewish. Why Jews have to be singled out to question Israel's legitimacy.
Has Syria ever accepted the "legitimacy" of Lebanon?. Or what about Kuwait?. Did Iraq ever accepted this country's legitimacy?. And the Butifule Iran. has it ever accepted the 3 Abu Musa Island as legitimate territors of UAE?. No they do not.

$3Triilon US tax payer's money".
Where the hell did get that magic number?. Besides, much of private contribution is made to Israel by Israeli supporter in US and elsewhere around the world. Much like Arabs & Muslims living in EU and US to for their respective countries.
In regards to military aid. It is part of US's long tradition of foreign aid to its friend and allies. Israeli scientist contribute their share of enhancing and improving these weapon systems and turn them over to US free of charge.

So what else new in the rich land of fantasy, and the 1000 Arabian nights of fairy tales?


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On the contrary

by Mehdi Mazloom (not verified) on

Anonymous8 wrote:
"why are you making up lies about Jews being kicked out of Iran? "
My own family was one of them. i was there, you were not.

I was talking about the creation of Israel in 1948, after which more then 1.1M Jews living throughout the Arab & Islamic countries were forced out as revenge

"You say that "Mullahs" betrayed, but this supposedly happened during Shah's regime, a non-religious government".

I was referring to the present regime. And I leave it at that.


Jaleho

Mehdi, be ashamed of Israel instead

by Jaleho on

You wrote : "Back in 1947 UN (Resolution 181) had proposed to divide the land such that each ethnic and religious group will have its own sovereignty. Jews agreed, Arab did not. Instead they wanted it all. Went to war and lost that war (and many more), and paid the price for the belligerence."

First of all, Jews have always accepted only the part of international agreements which has been useful for them, and disregarded the rest of it which pertained to the Palestinian rights. That is the case in the precursors to the 181 Resolution, the Balfour Agreement and the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry of 1946, although all of them have been biased AGAINST the Palestinians whose land was being STOLEN to create a Jewish State.

Second, from the very beginning, the Zionist wanted to gobble up the entire Palestine although in 1948 they only had 7% of the land. For example Ben Gurion in an internal discussion as early as 1938 stated :" after we become a strong force as a result of the creation of a state, we shall abolish partition and expand into the whole of Palestine." And After they happily celebrated the creation and RECOGNITION of Israel, then Menachem Begin declared in 1948: " The partition of the homeland is illegal. It will never be recognized. The signature of institutions and individuals of partition agreement are invalid. It will not bind the Jewish people. Jerusalem was and forever be our capital. Eretz Israel will be restored to the people of Israel, All of it. And forever." Like I said, they only accepted the parts of the international agreements that benefited them, and threw away the rest.

Third, you seem to make your own rule of jungle in your statement above "...they lost the war and they paid the price..." The same UN institution that gave Israel's recognition (which must be null since Israel DID Not accept the conditions under which it was created out of other people's land), the same UN explicitly prohibits "acquisition of land by force", but you seem not to like any of the UN rule which goes against Israel, ha?

Here's a one page history to correct your mehdi-mazloom-make-believe history. You can also click on top of the page-"The origin of the Palestine-Israel conflict"- to get an expanded version; still a short few page booklet which has answer to FAQ that I am sure you usually would give the wrong answer to!

//www.ifamericansknew.org/history/

As far as you being proud of Israel for Israel's per capita GDP and its accomplishments. First, Israel is founded on stolen land and blood of the native people of that land. Second, it has become what it is thanks to CHARITY and huge donation of the west and the US which have kept Israel as a military base in the Middle East in order to steal the resources of the region. Here's how much the five million Jews of Israel have gotten since 1973 from American taxpayers, it is in $Trillion range:

//www.csmonitor.com/2002/1209/p16s01-wmgn.htm...

Besides, if you're so proud of Israel's per capita GDP, why do you think they are still begging the US for so much DONATION every year:

//www.ifamericansknew.org/

It is hard to understand why you're so proud of Israel.


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Mazloom: yes, you have betrayed Iran

by Anonymous8 (not verified) on

why are you making up lies about Jews being kicked out of Iran? You say that "Mullahs" betrayed, but this supposedly happened during Shah's regime, a non-religious government.

I think you made this up and I am very sorry for you.


Iranian-

Mehdi Mazloom

by Iranian- on

You say:

"They all were forced by their neighbors out of their homes, allowed to take only their suitcases. No compensation and nothing."

I know that there are around 28,000 Jewish people in Iran now. I had heard after the revolution, the groups or individuals who were supporting the former Shah and/or they were against the new government lost their properties. But I did not hear that they lost it because they were Jewish.


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Iran & me

by Mehdi Mazloom (not verified) on

Anonymous8 wrote:

"I'm sorry for you that you are betraying Iran in this way. So what that you are an Israeli too? Does that mean your word is more correct? "

No it is the Mullahs in Tehran who betray everyone else
.
Yes I am an Israeli and very proud of the fact that in mere 60 years, we managed to gather our people from 4 corners of the world. 120 languages, 100 different cultural, many different political ideologies. Pick ourselves from ashes, persecution, and holocaust, and built a world class state. With democracy, where no one is above the law. Where government is replaced by the power of ballots - not bullets, as is the case throughout the Arab & Islamic countries.

I am a shame to be identify with a country where one religious sect (shi'ite) can't even get along with another sect (Sunni) of the same religion. Or one dominant ethnic group (Farsi) mistreat others in Iran. Despite my affection to the language and farsi music, I have no loyalty nor affinity to a country who's leaders wish to "remove my country from the face of the earth".

Despite that, I am proud of the fact that Israelis have left behind the hatred and the obsession with revenge, transformed tragedy into victory, forgive but not forget. Look forward instead of backward.

Just take a look how those holocaust survivors had formed friendship with Germany. A result of which we see today. In fact it is the Germans themselves who don't let the rest of the world forget the Holocaust.

Imagine we would be behaving like the Pals. sit in refugee camps in Germany, Poland and cry the victim all day long.

In regards to that bogus claim of "stolen land". You better learn the true story of whom were the real owners of the land.

As far back as In 1918, that land in Palestine was owned by 3 different groups - none of which were these pals who show you their keys.
1. The Ottoman Empire
2. Those Wealthy Arab (Effendi), whom were leasing the land to these Arabs who now call themselves "Palestinians".
3. 7% of the land was own by Jews whom had paid full price for the land. (Even the Arabs themselves admit that fact).

Back in 1947 UN (Resolution 181) had proposed to divide the land such that each ethnic and religious group will have its own sovereignty. Jews agreed, Arab did not. Instead they wanted it all. Went to war and lost that war (and many more), and paid the price for the belligerence.

The Arab leadership mislead the pals and therefore they also should be held responsible for the pals state of affair.

what people in the ME & Gulf region should look, is look carefully at these numbers to get a grip on reality.

GDP per CAPITA (2006 est).

MUSLIM STATES:

1.Bangladesh---$2,300
2.Egypt:---------$4,200
3.Jordan:--------$5,100
4.Mauritania......$2,600
5.Nigeria:-------$1,500
6.Pakistan:------$2,600
7.Somalia:--------$600
8.Syria:---------$4,100
9.Sudan:--- ----$2,400
10.Yemen--------$1,000
TOTAL:-------$26,400

ISRAEL------$26,800

With no Oil, or other natural resources of its own, One Israeli worker produces more goods and services, then 10 of his counterparts in Arab & Muslim Countries COMBINED.

Even with their massive oil reserves. These Arab & Muslim states, mano-to-mano can't surpass Israel's GDP.

Oil rich States.
Saudi Arabia:--$12,000
Bahrain:--------$19,200
Libya:------------$6,700
Iran:--------------$7,700


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Really?????

by Mehdi Mazloom (not verified) on

jaleho writes:
'Because Palestinians have their OWN homes, many of which still have their KEY to their homes. Just because Israelis have STOLEN their land and homes, it doesn't mean that they should forget all about it. "

Oh I know, what you along with other innocent and gullible like you fail to acknowledge that in 1948, there were over 100,000 "Kalimians" (a derogatory name for Jews) who lived in Iran. They ALSO have their KEYS to their villas in Tehran, and their stores in Koo-tche' ma-ha-leh. They all were forced by their neighbors out of their homes, allowed to take only their suitcases. No compensation and nothing.
Trust me, you don't want to get into that ugly territory of "stolen" land and homes with me. I am all too familiar with it.

In regards to Mazloom. Agha jun. ma khaily mazloomim. Azi-yatt che-rrah mi konitt? (LOL)


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to mehdi the mazloom

by Anonymous8 (not verified) on

I'm sorry for you that you are betraying Iran in this way. So what that you are an Israeli too? Does that mean your word is more correct?

Israelis are can even more brainwashed by their own state propaganda. Would you accept a hezbollahi's word about Iran?


Jaleho

To Mehdi " Mazloom"

by Jaleho on

you wrote:

 

" So, why is it these pals are STILL kept in concentration camps by their own "Arab & Muslims brothers".?

 

Because Palestinians have their OWN homes, many of which still have their KEY to their homes. Just because Israelis have STOLEN their land and homes, it doesn't mean that they should forget all about it.

 

BTW, Israelis have begged and cried MAZLOOM as a tactic to steal land of others and got donation in the tune of $3 TRILLION of American taxpayers to make a US base in the Middle East, made big money off military dealership and in short made a fortune on the back of native MAZLOOM people of Middles east. High time you changed your name.


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Don't get It?

by Mehdi Mazloom (not verified) on

Q writes:
"If you still don't get it, it's probably too late for you. I hope your children are smarter than that."

On which planet did you transfered from. I am one of them (Israelis). How much do you really know from personal expeirnce and observation about the ME conflict, as I do?.

The whole Arab-Israeli conflict is not about piece of land, rather it is all about state of mind. Do you really think that if majority of Israelis would have been Shi'ite or Sunni Muslims, (instead of Jews) and who's had immigrated from other Arab & Islamic states in ME, would there been any so-called "Palestinian problem"?, You can bet your boots, it would NOT.

The funny thing is, right around the same time (1948) during which 700K Pals were removed from their mud and shag houses in Israel, there were more then 1.1M Jews who lived throughout the Arab & Islamic countries, they also were forced out of their luxury homes and shops.
When Pakistan was established as an Islamic state, they threw more then 8M Hindus out of their border into India. Subsequently, all these refugees (Hindus & Jews) were absorbed peacefully into their respective counters. So, why is it these pals are STILL kept in concentration camps by their own "Arab & Muslims brothers".?

In just past 3 years, Syria had absorbed more then 2M Iraqis into their borders and granted citizenship to most of them - YET, it still keep its Palestinian population in refugee camps under horrible conditions, treated like animals, deprived of any legal status.

You see!, people are not stupid, they see the real agenda behind the so-called Palestinian refugee problem. It has very little to do with justice and fairness, and everything with hollow and outdated mantra of much insidious claim of "Islamic land", and outright intolerance to other people.

Finally, The equation is very simple.
If Israelis will put down their weapon, there will be war. If Hamas put their weapons down, there will be peace.


Abarmard

The moment US stops working for Israel

by Abarmard on

Is the moment that this country is back on the track. Interestingly enough, with all these advertisement from the US media and government for the sake of the Zionist, most Americans do not care for Israel. I have no doubt in my mind that sooner or later the US will break free from the Israeli control and then we can sit back and watch the realities of the Israeli regime unfold!


Fred

The "adult" Islamist Centurion

by Fred on

The "adult" Islamist Centurion would do himself and comrades a world of good by taking remedial arithmatic. The bothersome "BS" missive was in four, as in four minaret in your Imam Khomeini's mausoleum, and not "3" lines.


Q

dear Fred,

by Q on

after a hearty laugh, I can only respond with the following while containing my futher laughter.

The day you challenge anyone with anything resemboling an "indisputable hard fact" is the day pigs fly over a frozen-over hell that Bush, Cheney and the rest of your Zio-con posse will soon call home in this reality.

Until then you can pretend to give your life meaning by chuckling uncomfortably like a 13 year old that you must be... leaving BS 3 line messages satisfying your own ego when in reality you have been reduced to the impotency of sitting on the sidelines and passing uninformed judgements on those adults conducting the real "reasoning".

This should be enough for your next 10 lame comments which I will have the pleasure of ignoring.

Happy Mother's day!


Fred

Foaming at the mouth Islamists

by Fred on

Reasoning with the foaming at the mouth Islamists is akin to expecting lifelong moral harlots to be virtuous.  whenever their concocted worldview is challenged by indisputable hard facts, not only they don’t get it, their ever present hostility peaks.


Q

my unfortunately brainwashed friend

by Q on

this has absolutely nothing to do with Ahmadinejad or any "security." Iran does not pose a threat to Israel and those who say otherwise, just are too stupid to count the nukes and missiles that Israel has.

US has been stocking up Israel for decades before there ever was Ahmadinjed on the scene. Before there ever was an IR, US was stocking up Israel against Arabs and Arabs against Israel. They sold weapons to Saddam and even to IRI, at a point where it was much more radical and anti-Israel than it is now. The game is to sell the weapons!!! It doesn't matter to whom or at what price. The american tax payer is paying it straight to the pockets of the Military Industrial Complex.

To continue this sham, they need excuses that are increasingly implausible: from USSR, Egypt, to Syria, to Iraq, to "Al Qaeda", to Iran. It's all BS. All these weapons sales hasn't increased security one bit in the region. That's by design.

If you still don't get it, it's probably too late for you. I hope your children are smarter than that.


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Yes there is a "duty" and "Obligation"

by Mehdi Mazloom (not verified) on

If people like you and others in the ME do not want israel to posses bigger weapons then anyone else. Then, tell those Mullahs from the the 7th century caves and thugs like Hamas, not to give neither US nor Israel the reasons to have them.

When someone like Ahmadi-midget declares that a country (Israel) 1200 km away from his borders must be eradicated from the face of the earth. A state which has done NOTHING to harm neither his country, nor its people. Rather that someone take practical and tangible steps to arm himself with Nuks to backup his threat.

When you have a regime which is involved in every effort to destabilize the region, in Lebanon, N.Africa, Iraq, and Gaza through terror and mayhem.

When that regime is headed by a bunch of religious nuts case who believe in some delusional messianic mission to destroy others.

And when you are their primary target to be eliminated. then my friend

YOU TAKE THAT THUG'S THREATS AND ACTIONS VERY VERY SERIOUSLY, AND YOU DO EVERYTHING TO STOP HIS REGIME.

That is where we are right now with these gollah'ha in Tehran.

The funny thing is, Iran had accomplished something vis-a-vis Israel and some of its fierce foes, it got them to talk peace and cooperation - aimed against the Iranian regime.

You will be shocked to learn how close cooperation exist between Saudi Arabia, Libya and Israel.