News

I heard the same thing

about the money being increased and that Israel was going to get involved in rebuilding the strip.

The figures Rosie mentions sounds about right.

Personally I hope that Israel does get involved. It would definitely be a good gesture and just the right thing to do. It would show everyone else that they know that the Palestinian people are not the enemy.

rosie

yes... you said it better than i did.  i just can't reconcile someone who obviously DOES care as much as captain does with someone like gol-dust who uses extremely offensive language and has a seriously biased attitude.  i just feel he is better than that and i don't want to have questions about someone who i feel has more intergrity than to associate HIS attitude with one like that.  i can't express loudly enough that my question is asked with great respect.

peace out.

Because you are a good friend of mine Fish and because

the Cap'n doesn't have an anti-Semitic bone in his body and I know that for a fact I really need to say this. I'd say it anyway and I had to do it once before but with you it's especially important to me.. And Cap'n you needn't acknowledge this this time. But Fish I really hope you trust me on this one. Obviously you'll still have your questions but in my view they could be more like: how/why could someone who is NOT anti-Semitic say, do, feel, not say, not do this that or the other thing...

I won't participate in your conversation but I'll read it.

Take care,

r.

cap'n

i'm just curious and i'm asking you because you responded directly to her... do you support the attitude and language by gol-dust?  this isn't the first time i've seen her "opinion" expressed in such hmmm.... humane terms and i wonder at your reaction.  you claim you're not anti-semitic but merely a caring human being.  does your humanity extend to jews as well?  i'm not talking about palestine or money sent to israel... i don't want to hear the pre-prepared rant against zionism.  i'm asking how YOU feel and do you feel that kind of language and attitude is appropriate?  thank you sir!

capt- again you are missing the point

You wrote:

by capt_ayhab on Wed Mar 11, 2009 01:06 PM PDT

Israeli government issuing those statistics is just like IR claiming that there are no gays in Iran.

That is how preposterous it sounds.

One thing you seem to miss. It is the METHODOLOGY by which a small group can inflict great damage - mostly through psychological effects on much larger group or even countries, using relatively cheap equipment and few people.

This is the very reason why Israel had used such massive forces, first against Hizbollah, and later Hamas. To not only deter these two groups from trying to intimates millions of Israeli civilian and paralysis their lives. Also to send a clear message to other terror groups around the world that, there is a heavy price to pay when they try the same methodology.

Can you imagine that tomorrow, some renegade group in Mexico decide, they have never recognized, nor accepted the annexation of CA, NM, AZ & TX to U.S.. Just position many small home made rockets along US- Mexican borders and launch them on San Diego, LA. What then. What about Germans against Poland?.

left undeterred, no one will be immune against such barbaric tactic. If you think that your beloved Iran will never face such prospect from the many groups oppose the Mullahs, think again my good man.

So before you hip shoot with your vociferous accusation against Israel, just sit back, sip from the choppoghe' (nargillah), and see the whole picture.

Despite Hizbollah's self congratulation of "defeating Israel", they will think long and very hard before attempting to send more rockets into Israel.  

Those amounts have recently changed Kaveh

because the US has just pledged 9 billion more, three to Gaza and six to the PA out of which they can "choose" to give part to Gaza, which I assume means that contingent upon certain conditions emerging they had better give part of it to Gaza...

not to mention biliions and billions more coming from elsewhere. Needless to say due to the havoc that has been wreaked upon Gaza recently thanks to our funding and our weapons and our green light from Bush,  this says NOTHING about the past only the present and future but my point is that things are shifting...

and quite honestly I doubt that Israel will be able to keep a lot of its funding if they keep on insulting Hillary for insisting they stop house demolitions in Jerusalem by saying she's "full of air" and things like that, and I have a feeling that if they make another incursion on Gaza they are going to feel it very very deeply in their deep pockets....

Obama's not Bush. He may not be Gandhi but he's not Bush...he's not EVEN Carter in this shifting geopolitical situation, there is FAR more at stake now than there EVER was... and...I don't think Netanyahu and friends have quite grasped that yet...

thx for the stats

r.

ps I believe the 9 billion is independent of the first 900,000 originally provided by the US immediately after the ceasefire which was actually not a "pledge" but a credit arrangement whereby the US footed the credit for Fatah itself to finance and head a reconstruction program while Israel was refusing to let glass bricks, concrete etc. go through the blockade, on grounds it could be used for making weapons. I kid you not. They wanted to keep people homeless. They just don't get it...Obama...was a community organizer. He likes people to live in houses...

Mazloom

Israeli government issuing those statistics is just like IR claiming that there are no gays in Iran.

That is how preposterous it sounds.

-YT

Kaveh

Now that is called a real credible source. Worth keeping in mind that, Gaza alone has been but totally demolished by recent war. This pledge might not even be enough to get the infra-structure repair done.

Even Israel might have to pitch in a bit which I read somewhere while back that they are considering some help to rebuild the strip.

-YT

Well done Mehdi

And its not just the Palestinians. There is also the Egypt and so on. They take the money, brainwash their kids with hatred of Jews and Americans, rejoice over events like 9/11 and become more corrupt. Like a swamp.

Israeli and American technology boos each other up. Politically Israel is the sole friend of the United States in the Middle East and all around the Mediterranean. Israel is in many ways becoming the only true and reliable ally the US has all around actually, given that Britain is already turning into an Islamic state... .

Zion

According to

the Development Assistance Committee of the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD), the main bilateral donors of aid to the Palestinians are the U.S., Japan, Norway, Germany, Sweden, Spain, France and the Netherlands.

$7.7 billion has been pledged to the PNA for the period of 2008-2010. That comes to $2.57 billion per year. $1.5 billion is going just to support the PNA's budget. Arab nations have been criticized for making, then balking, on pledges.

This isn't pocket change, no matter how you look at it.

To those of you who think that there's some kind of deception of the American people going on, I think it's not so much that people are being deceived as much as it is that the majority of them just don't care.

capt_ayhab - speaking of credibilty

So, agha, your sources from obscured and little known places are more credible then an official government agency.?

Those pundits can write all they wish about US - Israeli relationship. The fact is, Only Israel remained a loyal and true friend to US - no one else in the region.

If you and other pundits like you would know a fraction of what Israel contributes to American strategic interest, in the area of national security. I am sure you would think twice before level the type of accusation you have posted. 

How about research & development in high technology and aerial surveillance and other filed of national security?.

My friend, you have no clue how much Israel carries its own weight when it comes to repaying back to US for its help of this tiny country.

The biggest obstacle to peace in the ME is the mind set with which many Islamist perceive their relationship with the Israelis. Jews must live under Islam as "protected people". The main question is, who needs, or asked these freaking phony Mullahs for protection. 

Ahyab

Thanks for the links.

Alison

Alison Weir
CounterPunch
April 4, 2008

On April 1st I participated in a debate in San Francisco that raised the question of US aid to Israel.

Alison Weir
is Executive Director of If Americans Knew. For more information on the
US-Israel relationship she especially recommends the books by Donald
Neff, Paul Findley, Kathleen Christison, Stephen Walt, John
Mearsheimer, Grant Smith, Stephen Green, George Ball, and John Mulhall.

//www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/weir-aid.html

Excerpts

2. How has Israel used our military aid in the past?

In all of its wars except one, Israel has attacked first.

In violation of the Arms Export Control Act, which requires that US
weapons only be used in "legitimate self defense," Israel used American
equipment during its two invasions of Lebanon, killing 17,000 the first
time and 1,000 more recently, the vast majority civilians. It used
American-made cluster bombs in both invasions, again in defiance of US
laws, causing the "most hideous injuries" one American physician said
she had ever seen, and which, in one day in 1982 alone, resulted in the
amputation of over 1,000 mangled limbs.

It has used US military aid to continue and expand its illegal
confiscation of land in the West Bank and Golan Heights, and has used
American F-16s and Apache Helicopters against largely unarmed civilian
populations.

According to Defence for Children International, Israel has "engaged
in gross violations of international human rights and humanitarian
law." Between 1967 and 2003, Israel destroyed more than 10,000 homes,
and such destruction continues today. A coalition of UK human rights
groups recently issued a report stating that Israel's blockade of Gaza
is collective punishment of 1.5 million people, warning: "Unless the
blockade ends now, it will be impossible to pull Gaza back from the
brink of this disaster and any hopes for peace in the region will be
dashed."

In addition, Israel uses US military aid to fund an Israeli arms
industry that competes with US companies. According to a report
commissioned by the US Army War College, "Israel uses roughly 40
percent of its ... military aid, ostensibly earmarked for purchase of
US weapons, to buy Israeli-made hardware. It also has won the right to
require the Defense Department or US defense contractors to buy
Israeli-made equipment or subsystems, paying 50 to 60 cents on every
defense dollar the US gives to Israel."

End Excerpts................

-YT

gol dost

Interesting source for data.

//www.ifamericansknew.org/stats/usaid.html

“Since the October War in 1973, Washington has provided Israel with a
level of support dwarfing the amounts provided to any other state. It
has been the largest annual recipient of direct U.S. economic and
military assistance since 1976 and the largest total recipient since
World War ll. Total direct U.S. aid to Israel amounts to well over $140
billion in 2003 dollars. Israel receives about $3 billion in direct
foreign assistance each year, which is roughly one-fifth of America's
entire foreign aid budget. In per capita terms, the United States gives
each Israeli a direct subsidy worth about $500 per year. This largesse
is especially striking when one realizes that Israel is now a wealthy
industrial state with a per capita income roughly equal to South Korea
or Spain.”

* The source for US aid to Israel during Fiscal Year 2007 is the Congressional Research Service’s “U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel,”
written by Jeremy M. Sharp, Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs,
updated January 2, 2008. According to this report, the US gave Israel
at least $2,500.2 million in 2007. This number does not include the
$137.894 million we spent on joint U.S.-Israeli missile defense
projects or the $1.4 billion in loan guarantees made available to
Israel in 2007.

A November 2008 Washington Report article “A Conservative Estimate of Total Direct U.S. Aid to Israel: $118 Billion,” by Shirl McArthur, puts the cumulative total even higher.

-YT

Agho Mazloom

You got to be kidding me dadash. Do you think anyone will buy these crap that is printed by Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs?

Do you really think this source is credible. You are so aziyating me ha refigh. I do not know about anyone else, but yours truly ain't buying that source. ;-)

-YT

Can Iran afford to pay for Hammas and Hezbollah?

Yours thoroughly,
An unemployed Iranian.
Wink, wink.

US pays hundreds of billions a year to Israel, not 3 billion!

The Zionist organizations and individuals such as MADOF pay tens of billions a year to Israel. Us goes to war for the security of Israel (not so much for oil) costing us tens of billions a year plus getting our soldiers killed and million of Iraqis killed, wounded, raped, homeless, and destroyed homes and hospitals, roads, bridges and so on; plus paying all the money to military contractors, destryed eqipment, destroyed american families lives, and of course our destroyed economy!

 Did I forget the trillions of dollars that we spent and trillions we lost in stock market? Werent's most of those CEO's zionists who were helping Israel? We do Israel's dirty wars that is too much for them to handle! Now, they want the US to go to war against Iran for them! All the enemies US has created for herself for the support of Israel!

These are not Israel's fault? You bet they are! Another word, Israel is the main drag on the US that must be dumped! You bet AIPAC wouldn't allow that, since they are Israelis who use US!

This Israeli agent Mazloom is one of their WEB PR agents! Just go to hell MOOSHE!

کی یه نفر پیدا میشه که

 به این جوجه صهیونیست بفهمونه, زمین یکی دیگه رو غصب کردن درست نیست. ملت امریکارو گول زدن درست نیست

Capt_ayhab - I am blashing.

Agha maara cherra khe'-jallat midin?. Bandeh Mazloomim.

 Quote:

P/S I am awaiting proof of your claim regarding TENS OF BILLIONS Palestine allegedly is receiving. 

Here it is.

Israel Defense Forces/Military Intelligence
June 2002

Israel Defense Forces/Military Intelligence
June 2002

Executive Summary

1. The international community has so
far invested $4.5 billion in the PA in order to establish
infrastructures and an organized civil society. However, the European
and international hopes were met with a reality of corruption in the PA
and the allocation of funds for completely different objectives.

2. Since April 2001, the Arab states
transferred directly to the PA $45 million of aid per month, and the
European Union transfers directly to the PA 10 million Euro (approx. $9
million) of aid per month. Thus, the EU finances 10% of the PA budget.

Source: //www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/2000_2009/200...

Mazloom

[Every year, since 1948, various Palestinian groups have been receiving
tens of billion (that in B) of dollars in aid from the international
community. so!]

Do you know how ridicules this claim sounds? I am gonna have to ask you to provide documentation to prove this claim.

Every year Israel gets 3 BILLION in CASH from my tax money, The money is deposited to bank account at the first of the year and starts gathering intrest. There is not an earmark for this funds, meaning Israel can spent it anyway she wants.

Besides, the 30 Billion grant, as you said is spent on buying arms which IS NOT supposed to be used except on self defense. Why would Israel need so much money to defend itself against CHILDREN is beyond me.

Being perfectly honest, I as a TAX PAYER am quite sick of working my ass off so Israel can drop phosphorus bomb on children of Gaza.

-YT

P/S I am awaiting proof of your claim regarding TENS OF BILLIONS Palestine allegedly is receiving.

American dirty money OUT of middle east

it's not like there aren't $Billions in private jewish donations going to Israel every year. why does the tax payer have to pay even more?

Everyone knows how I feel about this issue, I think,

and I also want to point out that this article comes from a local middle America paper I think ordinary people started getting wiser when they finally realized how much the Bush administration shafted them Regardless, I am still cautiously optimistic about Obama's policies toward Is/Pal. I believe Clinton speaks softly publicly with Israel but privately carries a big stick. I also believe the US is working for peace by proxy through Britain's new policies toward Hezbollah and war crimes triials (regardless of what Obama says about negotiationg with Hezbollah..I believe he fully realizes the tail is wagging the dog, and the tail is rabid and I don't think he likes it one bit..)

However to be scrupulously faiir, it is also true that the PLo was corrupt with all that money. However that doesn't say much about Hamas at present.

I also feel it is rather dangerous to keep talking about CEOs who are connected with the AIPAC lobby. While it is true, it cuts both way. You see these CEO's come from OLD money, many of them. It's the post-war US government, for resons at first fathomable and later unfathomable to me, which has supported Israel, but individuals supporting Israel have far less money, I believe, that the real wealth concentration in this country is this old money which also runs the corporations (outside of media). Which is largely WASP.

What I'm trying to say is that when people always use this phraseology, it creates a kind of...subliminal anti-Semitism in a way..what about occasionally saying that AIPAC is conected to THEM/ Am I making any sense?

Needless to say I argue all the time and justly so that being Jewish and being Zionist are not the same thing but..that doesn't change matters in many people's perception, be they conscousor unconscious

speaking of "Deception"

"Every year, since 1948, various Palestinian groups have been receiving tens of billion (that in B) of dollars in aid from the international community."

WOW

in the last 60 years Palestinians have received less help from the "international community"  than what Israel receives every year from US.

And that is supposed to be a valid argument against this article?

How so?

IRANdokht

Making bombs and destroying people's homes and livelihood

does not create real jobs for us in USA. That 74% of the 30 billion fills the pockets of corrupted ceos who are connected to Israeli Lobby here not regular folks like me. If the 30 billion dollars was to be spent wisely it would have created thousands of jobs for the unemployed. Jobs that are constructive not destructive.

On top of it this 30 billion dollars creates more enemies for us in Muslim world and it costs us hundreds of billion of dollars more to protect ourselves.

Look at us Americans we have to borrow form Chinese to pay Israel for the destruction of another nation. It's absurd. When and how we are going to free ourselved of Israeli leaches I don't know.

Indeed, Tax money @ work.

And here is how. Quote from the same newpaper article:

This is grant aid, given in cash at the start of each fiscal year. The
only stipulation imposed on Israel's use of this cash gift is that it
spend 74 percent to purchase U.S. military goods and services. 

To those pundits, I would suggest you to ask the heads of US defense industries. They will tell you how many jobs it creates right here in US.

Unemployed wrote:

How many houses could you build with 30 billion dollars? How many
schools? How many roads, bridges, hospitals, animal shelters? How many
jobs could you provide with 30 billion dollars? How can we change this
deception imposed on us?

Every year, since 1948, various Palestinian groups have been receiving tens of billion (that in B) of dollars in aid from the international community. so!

How many houses could PLO have built with the billions of dollars? How many
schools? How many roads, bridges, hospitals, animal shelters? How many
jobs could they provide with those billions of dollars?. Instead this money was embezzle;d by corrupt PLO leaders. The late Arafat had left bank accounts worth billions which no one know where it is hidden.

Yeah, one should also ask, How can we change this
deception imposed on us?

The figures

on the article is greatly under estimation of the US aid to Israel. The scope of US aid is much larger than Cash for military or food. It also takes care of social needs, police force and equipments that are not openly published. Therefore the inventory is not considered as aid and only direct Cash is mentioned.

The number is much greater than it is claimed in the article.

I wish this money would've been spent to create jobs here...

We are suffering in this country while our money goes to a racist/criminal regime who is killing and destroying a whole a nation called Palestine. Only if Americans really knew about it this would've stopped.

How many houses could you build with 30 billion dollars? How many schools? How many roads, bridges, hospitals, animal shelters? How many jobs could you provide with 30 billion dollars? How can we change this deception imposed on us?

USA Aid

Tax money @ work.