Flight down in Mashad
BBC
24-Jul-2009 (40 comments)

A passenger plane has burst into flames on landing at an airport in northern Iran, killing 17 passengers, state media has reported. The burning plane skidded off the runway of the airport in the city of Mashhad

>>>
Fair

Another plane crash in Iran :(

by Fair on

It was a Russian made Ilyushin 62


Share/Save/Bookmark

 
che khabar e

Abarmard

by che khabar e on

The subject of sanctions is something I'm of two minds about.  I've read several things which cause me to go back and forth.  Do you disagree with sanctions in general?  Would you feel the same way if Iran were sanctioning someone or some specific items?  Do you feel the inital cause of sanctions was justified or not?  I personally think that the IRI has milked the issue of sanctions as a tool.  I don't think the IRI cares one speck about what the sanctions do to the average Iranian.


Kaveh Nouraee

Ostaad

by Kaveh Nouraee on

Which figures are you referring to?

Aeroflot's fleet? From Aeroflot's own website. They actually have 104 aircraft, I had older info that said they had 99. 69 of them are Airbus or Boeing. They have also signed deals for 22 A350s and 22 787s.

They still fly Tupolev TU154s and Ilyushin IL96s, but they are being phased out as each Airbus or Boeing rolls out of final assembly to replace them.

They have also ordered a number of 75-95 seat, Russian-made Sukhoi Superjet 100s for shorter, regional flights. These have only been in production since 2007 and they even though Sukhoi is a Russian aerospace firm, this plane was designed with Boeing's help. This will end up being the only Russian-made plane in Aeroflot's fleet.


Shah Ghollam

Attacking the crocks of Iran's air safety problems

by Shah Ghollam on

Here is the link to the news on solving the air safety problem. The solution, as I mentioned before, is ticket price hikes. If Iranians are really concerned with air safety then they must accept paying more for their tickets so the ailines can afford news planes for domestic flights:

//www.farsnews.net/newspics.php

 

@ Fair

Iran-140 is the genesus project for Iran civil aviation industry. The project was slow mainly because of infighting withing the government. Some were claiming civilian ailiner technology does not have a future in Iran and thus we must always buy our own airliners.

In any case the project took off and continued way behind schedule due to "lack of funding" by the government. Truely, the project took off during the Ahmadi Nejad presidency and he paid much attention to the project by providing funds and forcing the domestic airline companys to buy only Iran-140 if they are looking into similar class of aircrafts. He also pushed for funding the military versions of this aircraft. One for the army (with rear loading bay) and another for the Navy sea patrols as an air command and anti submarine missions.

If I am not wrong, HESA ( the manufacturing company) has received nearly 70 orders for this aircraft from airlines alone. The slow progress of this aircraft in joining the airlines is still the "bad rap" given to eastern Block aircrafts in Iran.

Iran-140 was chosen to be ideal for Iran for many reasons, the selection was lenghty and exhausting but in my opinion it is the proper choice given all variables.

Iranians do not hear about this project much for two main reasons. One is that such news are normally channeled through aviation community such as aviation magazines in Iran and universities, so the general public does not hear much about it. Secondly, Iranians have a very negative view of the domestic products of anything especially in technology products. Therefore, there is not much enthusiasm to bring such news to the general public which looks at it as "bad news" at the best unfortunately.

Iran, according to the last week's news (//english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=8805041198) , has produced 5 (some reports mentioned 14 which I think is a wrong figure) of such aircrafts and two more will be added before the end of 2009. In addition to manufacturing contract of producing TU-204, it was just annonced that Iran has also signed a contract to produce another Antonov airliner An-148 under Iranian designation Iran-148. These are very exiting projects for Iran if only Iranians understand the wealth of such production for the future of Iran's aerospace industry. Indeed thanks to Iranian technicians and engineers dedicated to this industry.

I suspect soon we will see the flights of two new versions of Iran-140s. One for Iranian ground forces and the other for the Navy!

 


Fair

Thanks Shah Ghollam

by Fair on

for the correction.

Having only one accident like that (single engine failure at the wrong time and place) is very acceptable during development phase, western aircraft manufacturers experience that all the time.

I actually think it would be great if Iran manufactured the An-140 in large numbers, as it would meet a lot of domestic travel needs, boost our technology indigenously, and help the economy as well (lower cost, jobs, etc.). Do you have any information/opinion about the status of this project, and why we don't hear about more planes being produced/entering service, etc.?

Thanks,

-FAIR


Shah Ghollam

@ Fair

by Shah Ghollam on

Thanks for the correction. may I add one of my own!

The plane crash that you mentioned where all the top engineers of the manufacturer were killed was AN-140. That accident occured when a Ukrainian made plane was on its way to Isfahan for inaguaration of the Iran-140 plant in Shahin Shahr Iran. That plane was made in Ukrain not in Iran and was operated by a Ukrainian crew.

There has been only one single crash of Iranian manufactured Iran-140 during a training flight w/o any passengers except the training crew . The plane lost power in one engine on take off or landing (I am not sure). The plane tilted a little but because it was too close to the ground the lowered wing hit the ground and the plane crashed.

Iran-140, as a safety feature,  is designed to continue operation with full load having only one engine working.

 


capt_ayhab

my 2 riali

by capt_ayhab on

Since 1935 there have been 91 airplane crashes in Iran of which 22 have been air force, 5 Polish Airlines, 2 US Air force and 29 without any fatalities. Below is the alphabetical list of all airplane crashes in Iran.

//www.baaa-acro.com/Pays/I/Iran.htm

 

Aero Commander 500
Aero Commander 500
Aérospatiale Caravelle
Airbus A300<<<<<<<<< was shot down by US navy :(
Antonov AN-12
Antonov AN-124
Antonov AN-140
Antonov AN-140-100
Antonov AN-26
Antonov AN-74T-200
Avro York
Avro York
Avro York
Beechcraft C-12 Huron
Boeing 707
Boeing 707
Boeing 727-100
Boeing 727-100
Boeing 727-200
Boeing 737-200
Curtiss C-46
Dassault Falcon 20
Dassault Falcon 20
Dassault Falcon 20
Dassault Falcon 20
De Havilland DH.104 Dove
De Havilland DH.104 Dove
De Havilland DH.89
De Havilland DH.89
De Havilland DH.89
De Havilland DHC-6
Douglas C-47
Douglas C-47
Douglas DC-3
Douglas DC-3
Douglas DC-3
Douglas DC-3
Douglas DC-3
Douglas DC-3
Douglas DC-3
Douglas DC-3
Douglas DC-3
Douglas DC-4
Fairchild-Hiller FH-227
Fokker 100
Fokker 100
Fokker F27
Fokker F27
Fokker F27
Fokker F27
Fokker F27
Fokker F28
Grumman Gulfstream G2
Ilyushin II-62M
Ilyushin II-76
Ilyushin II-76
Lisunov LI-2
Lockheed Hercules C-130
Lockheed Hercules C-130
Lockheed Hercules C-130
Lockheed Hercules C-130
Lockheed Hercules C-130
Lockheed Hercules C-130
Lockheed Hercules C-130
Lockheed Hercules C-130
Lockheed Hercules C-130
Lockheed Hercules C-130
Lockheed Hercules C-130
Lockheed Hercules C-130
Lockheed L-1329 JetStar
Martin Mariner
PH-AKM
Pilatus PC-6 Turbo Porter
Pilatus PC-6 Turbo Porter
Pilatus-BN Islander
Pilatus-BN Islander
Pilatus-BN Islander
PZL-Mielec AN-2
PZL-Mielec AN-2
PZL-Mielec AN-2
PZL-Mielec AN-2
PZL-Mielec AN-2
Sud-Est SE.161 Languedoc
Tupolev TU-154
Tupolev TU-154
Tupolev TU-154
Tupolev TU-154M
Vickers Viscount
Yakovlev Yak-40


See the link for other air line involved and number of casualties, cause of the accident and all the relevant data.

 

-YT 


Abarmard

I agree with all of you then

by Abarmard on

If all the people here believe that such cases in Iran would have happened regardless if we had better planes then I agree and won't relate this case with sanctions ever again.

Happy Saturday.


Ostaad

May I add, the managing director of the airline and...

by Ostaad on

a high ranking transportation official for the Ostaaneh Khorasaan were among the dead too.

Anyway, rooheshaan shaad.

I still think these accidents are all due to lax quality control, training and lack of up to the standards safety and maintenance factors.

 


Shah Ghollam

Per latest reports

by Shah Ghollam on

The pilot was a Khazak and dies with eight other of his own crew of which all were Khazaks.

Reading the reports points to pilot fault. That is he was either unexperienced (unlikely in this case) or he was toxicated. Otherwise he would not have attempt to touch down in the mid length of the runway at 200 miles/hr instead of 165 miles/hr.


Fair

Abarmard- wrong analogy

by Fair on

It is not that Iran has a sickness X and if it doesn't get the cure (western aircraft and parts) it will die. It has a CHOICE every time it lets one of those aircraft take off whether or not to allow it.

It is more like you have a sickness of which you will die ONLY if you drink Pepsi. So if you don't have access to the cure, DON'T DRINK PEPSI.

It is as simple as that.

 

-FAIR


Fair

UPDATE- new facts emerging

by Fair on


_The plane's excessive speed caused the plane to land in the middle of
the runway, causing the collapse of the nose landing gear. The plane skidded to
finish the runway and subsequently crashed into a wall beyond the runway.

_The plane was leased from Khazakestan. 9 of 16 dead were Khazak crew including the pilot.

_The operational license of Aria Air has been revoked.

Apparently the plane's approach speed was 200 mph instead of about 160 mph, resulting in a late touchdown and nosegear collapse.

So a Kazakh pilot screws up the landing of a perfectly functional Russian built plane in an Iranian owned and managed and regulated airline. 16 people die. And somehow the US is still to blame!

 

-FAIR


Fred

اکسیر حیات

Fred


بحث و حدیث دیگران که تو کت بعضی ها نمیره هیچ، تازه وارد معادلات چند مجهوله قیاس معالفارق هم میشوند و کار را به داروی شفابخش میرسانند  حداقل به نصیحت بزرگان الطفاتی فرمایند باشد که لنگان خرک خود را بمنزل برسانند

 بر بساط نکته دانان خودفروشی شرط نیست

یا سخن دانسته گو ای مرد عاقل یا خموش 

 به عبارت دیگر :

       با عقل و فهم و دانش داد سخن توان داد

چون جمع شد معانی گوی بیان توان زد

 


Fair

Shah Ghollam thank you

by Fair on

for a post which actually gives people facts, and allows the reader to learn something. You are absolutely right to caution against polticizing such events, we are talking about innocent civilian lives here.

Just one small correction- the plans for future construction are for the Tupolev Tu-204, not the Il-204. Furthermore, the Antonov An-140 which was supposed to be built in Shahin Shahr has been talked about for 6 years now, 4 prototypes were built and 2 have crashed, one of which killing most of Antonov design bureau's top brains.

I recommend Abaramard read Shah Ghollam's post carefully, you will see that the problems threatening the lives of Iranian air passengers are much deeper than US sanctions, and much closer to home.

Bottom line here is that Iran is sacrificing safety for cost, and that is nobody's fault but Iran itself. This is not about politics, it is about management. Once again, case in point is Mahan Air-no fatalities, fleet of all US and European origin. Subject to the very same sanctions.

You shed light on very important factors which in my opinion, go back to management and standards in civil aviation in Iran. The market issue which pushes airlines to cut corners to the point of danger is one which the government can address but does not and therefore has responsibility. Same with the leasing issue. Yes, a wet lease would put the burden of maintenance on the party which the aircraft is leased from, but that party still is subject to the domestic civil aviation authority in Iran. How much regulation and oversight has Iran's CAA exercised over this central Asian company that you described? What certification procedure did they have to go through (both their maintenance operation and aircrew)?

Just to compare, here is an Iran Air 747SP, a much bigger and heavier plane than the Il-62, whose nosewheel malfunctioned in Beijing in 2004, but the Iranian pilot being highly skilled and excellent, saved the day:

//www.airliners.net/photo/Iran-Air/Boeing-747...

 

What testing or standards did the pilot of Aria Air Il-62 have to pass to be allowed to fly in Iran? And who is responsible for that testing and standard?

Notice that none of what you describe makes the US responsible for this crash or any others (something Abarmard insists on). Was the US supposed to warn Iran that Aria Air should check out the Il-62's nose landing gear?

Furthermore, with the pricing/regulation/economic situation you are bringing up, US sanctions being lifted will not help. Airbuses and Boeings are much more expensive than used Soviet era aircraft, and will therefore not even meet the need of the Iranian market, which is cheap rugged aircraft. So Aria Air and Caspian Air would not even be buying them.

In short, Iran is willing to cut cost and oversight and regulation to the severe detriment of safety. And whenever people die because of it, they blame the US. This is placing politics over people's lives and is despicable.

 

FAIR


Mort Gilani

Sophistry Again

by Mort Gilani on

It may be right that the lack of proper maintenance by a contract company was the main reason for this tragedy. Isn’t it a normal practice that when a critical program is contracted out, the program’s policies and procedures are audited to make sure the minimum safety standards are met?
The Islamist logic is: The government keeps the flight fees low because people do not like to pay a fair price; the airliners cannot buy new aircrafts or provide a safe service because the government keeps the prices low. Under current conditions, a safe air travel is not cost-effective. Therefore, people should travel at their own risks and the government and airliners are not responsible.
The solution that came out of Iran today: Let’s blame it on the pilot, close the airline (okay by me), continue to blame US, and wait for the next crash.


Abarmard

To simplify

by Abarmard on

Here is what some don't follow. As mentioned I agree that some blame goes to the Iranian government, but who started the issue? Not only the US has refused to sell the semi monopoly of Boeing but they don't allow Airbus to be sold to Iran also.


Ebi, the reason that they don't purchase "better" or "newer" planes is simply because the market channels have been closed to them. Once a choice is limited the buying power decreases and the countries (Russian) can sell their junk with a very high price.
Here is to really simplify.


I have a medicine that can cure X. Suppose that Mr. Kaveh gets X. I don't like Mr. Kave's father and while I provide this to all who are effected by X, I don't do so for Mr. Kaveh. Mr. Kaveh dies from X (zabunam laal). Should the family of Mr. Kaveh be mad at Mr. kave's father who I didn't like or I who could have prevented the death?


Now I could argue that they are similar products that have not shown as good results as my medicine, and if Mr. Kaveh chose to, could have experimented with those products. None of those medications were as solid as what I own. Suppose that Ostaad now sells a similar product. I go to him and tell him not to sell to Kaveh and let their family suffer so his father comes and kisses my ass.
It's that simple.


This has become a political issue as a bargaining power of the US against Iran. Similarly things that relate to Human well beings such as medicine should not be played with as such.


Shah Ghollam

I also must add

by Shah Ghollam on

that many people here are simply discussing politics and not the crash. The following are note worthy;

- The Boeing company was the supplier of most pre-revolution airliners to Iran. As such, it is responsible to supply the parts as part of the agreement. Boeing is not providing parts, as part of the sale contract SINCE the revolution. In the post revolution US made aircrafts that were purchased must also be supplied parts to guarrantee the flight safety if not to Iran to the seller of these aircrafts to Iran.

- It is very simple for most people to wrongly judge the aviation accidents simply because of personal alterior motive and/or lack of technical knowledge. The photos made available to public and the news releases point to lack of proper maintenance rather than the problem with the aircraft engineering.

In this latest case, the forward landing gear seems to have failed resulting in the nose down. My guess is the failure was "sudden" pointing to landing gear collaps. That in turn must have shock the aircraft bad enough to veer off the main runway and subsequently crashing into a wall that immediately smashed the pilot cabin and the most forward passenger cabin killing all the crew and three passengers including the General manager of Aria Tours captain Dadpey who was also the part owner of the company.

The plane was on lease from a central asian country with a foreign pilot by the name Mr. Alexander Balacheigh.

-Pay attention, since the plane was on lease, the maintenance of this aircraft most likely was with the the company leasing this plane to Iran (it is not cost effective to create a maintenance depot for such a small number of aircrafts in Iran) and not Iranian entity. This must be the case since this type of aircrafts, IL-62, is only operated by Aria Tours in Iran and Wikipedia lists only a single aircraft of this kind purchased by Aria tours. Again, the crashed aircraft was on lease and not owned by Aria Tours. 

- What I also suspect here is that the pilot of this aircraft bears some responsibility since loosing the front landing gear, though unique but with several historical precedence, should still allow the plane to continue its course on the runway to a stand still w/o any loss of life or runway deviation. I am guessing the pilot panicked!

with above, it is logical to put the blame on the maintenance and pilot error. I do not know what are the commecial aviation rules and regulation in Iran but I can sense that this incident would have been very difficult to predict because the aircraft was onl lease from a foreign company thus by passing Iranian commercial aviation regulation through a loophole.

For those who constantly nag about Iranian aviation and aviation technology (i.e. Kamran Ramyar ) should know what is happening in Iranian aviation has a history that is untold here. aside from US made parts sanctions, the biggest factor that Iranian companies do purcase Russian made aircrafts is the Iranian market. In Iran, people expect to pay very little for their flights and yet they expect to fly the latest Airbuses. The cost of the airline tickets for domestic flights are redicilously low. For example, my flight from tehran to Kermanshah for a return ticket was about $50! The domestic airline companies have repeatedly asked for ticket price increases with no luck, each time the government turn their requests down because of public pressure. I challeneg anyone here who thinks he can do better by oppening a new airline company in Iran providing Airbuses to their customers instead of russian made aircrafts. This should also answer those who question why Iran is not buying the new Russian aircrafts. The simple reason is that "it is not cost effective".

Passenger aircraft manufacturing industry is a far more complex that most people think. The reason is the high safety statndards (in fact it is comparatively easier to manufacture military aircrafts than civilian) that have to be followed by the manufacturer. In all honesty, Iran has taken many steps to provide cost effective aircrafts in Iran for civilian industry namely the production of Iran-140 in Shahin Shahr near Isfahan. It is a 52 seater aircraft with late technology. Iran has also signed a new contract last year with Russia to coproduce 100 of the latest Il-204 (a 200 passenger aircraft with European and American certification) in Iran.

Iran is determined to succeed the commercial aircraft manufacturing industry to not allow ever again sanctions determine the health of its people. But like anything else, it will be a tough road. as a reminder, there are only three major entities that produce the bulk of world's passenger aircrafts and they are EU, the US and Russia.

The question is "Do we want to become a source in aviation industry or not?" If the answer is "YES", then we must accept its slow progress, pitfalls and pains. I have no illusion about what I want Iran to achieve in this arena, but I only have one vote.

Finally, if you are Iranians and want the good for Iran, stop politisizing every event in Iran with your scant knowledge and experience. In the end, you are not helping Iran nor Iranians by being dishonest. We are most of the times too passionate of people and much less rational. No wonder our history is full of foerign manipulation rubbing us times after times.

My two cents!

 

 


cyclicforward

Ostaad

by cyclicforward on

You are correct and bringing a very good point to this trail. More than anybody, the civil aviation of IRI is at fault here for many reasons. Probably the head of it has a Ph.D from MIT like the rest of the cabinet of current president:-) It is a bitter fact that They simply don't care and don't give a hoot about the lives of the passengers. Lives doesn't mean anything in IRI.

However, please look at the fleet of Aerofloat

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aeroflot

If Russia doesn't fly their own planes, then that tells you something.


cyclicforward

Molla

by cyclicforward on

I am not going to even respond to that. So let it go.


Ostaad

Sanctions hurt ordinary Iranians, so they should be lifted or...

by Ostaad on

broken.

That said, these "private" airlines in Iran are skimping on maintenance and the poor passengers are paying the price with their lives. In fact the US has announced publicly that critical spare parts are available to Iran.

Whether the aircraft are Russian or US-made has nothing to do with these accidents. If Iranians were allowed to sue the carriers just like the US, you'd see how fast these criminally negligent airline owners and mangagers would "fix" their junk.

There's no data to backup some claims that Russian made aircraft are less safe than their US counterparts, less comfortable and nice maybe, but not less safe!

See for yourselves:

//aviation-safety.net/index.php

Kaveh, can you show where you got those figures, please?


Fair

Sanctions don't kill. Incompetence does.

by Fair on

The poor people who got on that plane entrusted their safety in the airline and management of Iran's civil aviation. It is THEIR JOB to make sure the nose wheel functions, or the engine is in good shape, or the hydraulic systems work, etc.

If American planes were in Iran under the same management, they would still crash. Because THOSE RESPONSIBLE ARE NOT DOING THEIR JOB and are INCOMPETENT.

Molla, instead of talking to your camel and calling people names, you should do some research. The Ilyushin 62 is actually regarded as quite a safe plane with a good safety record. The last time it had a crash with any fatality was 20 years ago, which is more than I can say for most Boeings and Airbuses. Point being, the plane is not the problem. Why are Ilyushins not crashing in any other country?

-FAIR


Mola Nasredeen

cycleforward, Iranian people are my friends

by Mola Nasredeen on

Who are your friends? 


cyclicforward

Dear Molla

by cyclicforward on

If you want to be treated with respect, then respect others. When your friends in Iran offend the U.S. and sell out to the Russians, then this is what you get. If you want to trade with Americans, then behave and respect them and then they might let you have some decent planes, otherwise you have to put up with the Russian junks.

Even Airfloat, the national Russian airlines uses Airbus and not their own junk. Sanctions IRI deserves and sanctions it gets.You have no business to be in air when you don't have a safe plane to fly with. Now go and beg the Russians to build the nuclear plant or may be you expect the Americans to remove the sanction on that also. What a bunch of hypocrites run IRI.


Kaveh Nouraee

Abarmard

by Kaveh Nouraee on

It simply baffles me how you can continue to insist that the U.S. has ANY culpability in this, then proceed to base your position in the manner in which you have shown.

If you can so easily blame the U.S. for NOT selling Iran any planes, then why aren't you laying any blame upon the Russians for selling Iran what is widely known by everyone (including the Russians themselves) to be a un-airworthy piece of crap?

If I may correct you further:

1) There has been and there will continue to be a surplus of passenger airplanes available for either outright purchase or lease. There are several facilities located in the Southwest U.S. that store passenger jets. In many cases, brand new airliners have flown straight into storage from either Boeing or Airbus following completed assembly without carrying a single fare-paying passenger.

2) Boeing's commercial passenger aircraft is used in military applications as well. A C-22 is a 727, a C-32 is a 757, a C-40 Clipper is a 737, the E-10 is a 767, and so on. Many of the components used on these planes is shared in both civilian and military applications.

Lastly, the IR may indeed acquire Boeing and/or Airbus equipment, provided that they are at least seven years of age and are not purchased directly from either Boeing or Airbus.

Considering the fact that there are many, many airplanes that are flown daily by reputable carriers worldwide that are much older, and that the majority of carriers operate second-hand equipment, this underscores the fact that the IR doesn't value Iranian life (or any other life for that matter).


Mola Nasredeen

"What a bunch of losers!"

by Mola Nasredeen on

Said Hazrat shotor to me.

I protested: "Hajagha are you calling me a loser?"

"No this bunch of rightwingers and Zionists" Said he.

"But why?" I asked with glee.

"Because they're a bunch of posers claiming they care for human life and at the same time, they all agree with the ones who impose the sanctions. And sanctions kills ordinary Iranian people. Sanctions do not line up people and ask them if they're conservative or reformist" He said.

"You're F...ing right Hajagha" I said that.

 

"


ebi amirhosseini

I agree with....

by ebi amirhosseini on

Fair,Fred & Kaveh.

1-OK, they can't buy western planes,why don't they buy brand new Russian made planes? I Wonder!.

2-I'm not an expert,but I believe the maintance services provided by people in charge also is poor.

Rooheshaan shaad.

 

Ebi aka Haaji


Artificial Intelligence

Excellent Points Fair!

by Artificial Intelligence on

How is it the duty of USA to protect Iranian civilians?  The logic of some people is amazing here!


Fair

THIS IS NOT THE US's FAULT

by Fair on

This was a RUSSIAN made plane operated by an IRANIAN airline according to IRANIAN civil aviation regulations. It is not the responsibility of the US to ensure the safety of an Iranian plane made in Russia! If the plane was not fit to fly, IT SHOULD NOT HAVE FLOWN.

I am SICK and TIRED of people like Abarmard demanding that the US sell technology to a country whose official policy is DEATH TO AMERICA and then blame the US for Iranian mismanagement! The US has no obligation to sell anything to anybody.

To illustrate further, ask yourself- how many Mahan Air (Rafsanjani's airline) planes have ever crashed? And what does THEIR fleet look like? (hint: not many cheap Russian planes among them). Conclusion: FOLLOW THE MONEY.

And finally Abarmard, YOU ARE WRONG. Civilian airliners DO have military value. They can carry soldiers and military cargo (Iranian jumbo jets are in Syria all the time, and they are not carrying just carpets and pistachios), as well as technology for military versions of the same plane like tanker/transports, etc.

STOP BLAMING THE US FOR IRI INCOMPETENCE.

 

-Fair


Fred

پیدا کنید پرتقال فروش را

Fred


وقتی صحبت از خرید هواپیماهای صفر کیلومتر روسی میشود چپول جمبولی اسلامی پسند باز هم جمع دو دو تایش میشود هفتاد و دوتا. چپول استدلال میکند که چون جمبولی محبوبش تحت تحریم لابد ظالمانۀ آمریکا قرار دارد بهای هواپیماهای از رده خارج شدۀ روسی بالا رفته ، پیدا کنید پرتقال فروش را  


Kamran Ramyar

Marvel at Iranian know how!

by Kamran Ramyar on

Hardly a day goes by without us hearing about another great technological leap by IRI.... Iran on the verge of completing the full nuclear cycle....Iran confirms news regarding cloning a goat...., first of its kind in the world! Ianian engineers successful in manufacturing fighter jets - Saegeh -  to be used by airforce of IRI. Etc, etc.etc.....

One would think with all these marvelous technologivcal achievements IRI should have no difficulty manufacturing passenger planes and not have to constantly rely of American and European manufacturers for spare parts to maintain its aging fleet.  A clear contradiction or beteter phrased...SOMEBODY IS LYING!  What the hell is going on here. Would somebody please explain! 

Cloning ran confirms cloning  


Abarmard

No cyclicforward

by Abarmard on

In this case you are wrong. The options are that people will fly less standard safe planes. The Islamic Republic that the sanctions was on was a republic that many Western nations support a portion of them today.

Who do you think came on streets? 

The US is dead wrong in sanctioning something that has no military value.

You may blame the Islamic Republic, and I agree that some of the blame goes to them, but I do not accept the full blame to the IR and majority of that goes to the US directly.