Misc

YT

To clarify, I do not view any of these cases, be it women and hejab, or guys with long hair in tight t-shirts and jeans, as isolated incidents. I agree that they are, as you mentioned, part of a systematic method of instilling fear and oppression, whether for the purposes of distraction as you mentioned or for any other reason; all of which underscore the inherent insecurities and weaknesses that exist in the IRI government, but have yet to be effectively exploited.

You call this lecturing?

Activism? Let's see the results of Iranian activism.

30 years of continuous corruption and oppression; juvenile executions that are being carried out even as we speak; the unlawful detention of citizens on manufactured charges.....

Let me tell you this from the bottom of my being....I'm sorry you had to endure even a microsecond of that brutality. No one should have to be subjected to that simply for saying, "I don't agree".

The problem is that such things are still happening in Iran. 30 years of the same tired old shit, hoping in vain for a different outcome. "Baat eet vaaz voorse before", so eet eez ok". I'm sorry. It's not OK. It never was, and it never will be. By now there should be no doubt that these goons don't respond favorably to carefully crafted psychological mind games designed to make them feel good about themselves with some false sense of righteousness.

Iranians have such a goddamn superiority complex towards everything and everyone else, but when it comes to ourselves, we truly are our own worst enemy.

My not having lived in Iran for more than just a few months doesn't make me any less Iranian than you or anyone else, not even someone who never stepped foot outside of Iran in their entire lives.

Nouranee

We prefer you remain "passive"!

Lady IRANdokht

Do not get frustrated by the statements and observations that some of the friends are making in regards to [Hejab] issue in general, and to suppression of women in Iran as a whole.

I have seen this to happen time and time again when one person or group of people see situations like these. i.e. Master Kaveh, as ISOLATED cases.

Fact of the matter is, the ISSUE of [Hejab] and so called modesty has been used in a carefully crafted PLAN and a systematic tactic by IRI to exert PRESSURE and POWER over women. Cases like this are NOT an isolated incidents, they are designed by IRI and are used anytime regime feels and senses a need to distract Iran and Iranians from real issues.

In my last trip to Iran (few months back) I was witness to one of these so called [crack-down] on [Hejab]. That specific crack-down coincided with Ahmadinejads announcement to increase price of gasoline (Petrol as our UK friends call it) and rationing of the gasoline that followed. IRI, very carefully uses this tactic , and similar crack-downs on our youth, and particularly on WOMEN, to head-off any possible unrest and [Tazahorat]. As I was there, there was a similar crack-down on what IRI labeled as [Arazel va Obash].

Target of that crack-down was young men, for issues such as long hair, or tight jeans and tight T-Shirts. These young men had committed no crime, except being a bit fashion-conscious. They were being arrested for loitering, or simply by congregating front of [Bastani foroshi] or sandwich shops.

Lady IRANdokht, Master Kaveh, although he has all the good intentions in his statement but he has not been in a situation, where he has to face three or four man, armed with billy clubs and automatic assault rifles. I regret to say that master Kaveh does not know any better. GHEYRAT and crap like that has nothing to do for the lack of action by any by-stander. Those men themselves, at one point or another have been or will be target of these brutal and inhumane tactics.

Master Kaveh, no punt intended, as i do agree with your statement to some degree.

Respectfully
-YT

Kaveh

I sometimes read your comments a few times too...

When I was a student I spoke up against the paak-saazi and the arrests, against the Islamic committee of Amir Kabir's university, and have had bassijis and pasdaars gun in my face in three different occasions once right next to the Evin prison when I thought was the last time I'd see its outside walls. What action have you ever taken against these goons? what qualifies you as a mobarez to call me passive???

That my dear is sheer arrogance!  you have not even lived in iran and you are giving me a lecture about confronting IRI thugs and activism?

IRANdokht

IRANdokht

An act of bravery? Since when is demanding respect an act of bravery?

You are quite the puzzle. Despite your protestations to the contrary, you are, at the very least, condoning this behavior, by adopting this passive position and then justifying it by saying how much worse things were before. Abuse is abuse is abuse, whether the injuries inflicted are deep or superficial.

Yet while you remain passive and in essence receptive to this behavior, you are much more outspoken concerning other issues that in reality have no direct effect upon you, such as Prop 8. Sometimes I find myself reading your posts multiple times out of sheer disbelief.

Kaveh

I should have known it's useless to try to make you see anything but what you choose to...  when will I ever learn!

As I mentioned, I wish you had been to Iran, maybe you'd see what's going on first hand. Watching youtube clips and shouting lengesh kon from california doesn't count as an act of bravery.  

I won't continue this discussion.

IRANdokht

IRANdokht & Kourosh

IRANdokht.....Yes I did see the older gentleman getting involved. I applaud and extend my respect to him, as he is a real man. There are guys half his age standing there with their thumbs in their backsides ready to shaash themselves out of fear, which is sad. These degenerates feed from this fear like a colony of rats.

I'm sorry, but the comparison you are making between a few strands of hair showing and having an open container of alcohol is weaker than the U.S. economy. One is a controlled substance and the other isn't. There is a huge difference between obeying the law and being oppressed.

This mentality of acceptance, even partial acceptance, has been destroying Iran. There is no excuse, or justification for this in any manner, shape or form. And no, I'm not trying to teach anyone how to be "macho" remotely. I am just disgusted at the thought that after 3,000 years this is all we have to show for it.

Kourosh.....I see where you're coming from. I truly do. But you also need to be aware that there comes a time that when you're up against laats and trash like this, you have to get in the gutter yourself to clean it up.

Why????????

BUT why blood sucking IRI regime do this?????

Since the inception of IRI, it has had to deal with considerable opposition and discontent. Even when systematic challenges to IRI's legitimacy been absent, a considerable portion of the population has always demonstrated disbelief in and rejection of the IRI, to create an atmosphere of opposition. [Oppositional Atmosphere] means rejection by public of the dominant politico-cultural structure.

The attitude of opposition, although commendable and historic, has been disorganized to say the least, and does not have an uniform and institutionalized or nationwide formal representation. This diverse manifestation of opposition has been demonstrated by periodic strikes by various social groups, episodic social protests, daily forms of resistance in social sites such as schools, universities, work places and the struggle over symbolic means.

These types of opposition which affectionately is called [WEAPON OF THE WEAK]- no punt intended- can be and has been expresses through a variety of media such as, but not limited to: clothing styles, cynicism, jests, hairstyle or other appearance attributes. And by other means such as ideas expressed in private, underground literature, or [subversive] flow of information between outside and inside.

The ambiguity in Islamic Law regarding [Hejab] has created certain opportunities for women under IRI for certain amount of negotiation, i.e. different shades [Manto and Rosari], at the same time it has put Iranian women in a sad and horrible vulnerable position. This is has been a mean, by which IRI hoodlums can and has changed the definition of so called [acceptable dress], to accommodate their barbaric and inhumane raids on women of our country. But why???????

IRI has used this barbaric [interpretations] as a weapon against Iranian women, and Iranian nations as a whole anytime they have faced social problems most notably at the times of economic crises. IRI has used this uncertainty to increase pressure on women as SYMBOL of their power. After all, what terror better than terrorizing a society by putting the building blocks [family units] of that society under pressure?

//books.google.com/books?id=uXnmC1UPykQC&pg=P...

an excellent reading material.

What is the solution? At the expense of sounding arrogant, since I do not claim to have that knowledge, I believe in following mathematical equation:

UNITY + PASSION = VICTORY

Have a wonderful day
-YT

That will only trigger them to do more of the same.

Kaveh.

I bet you that at least half of the men you saw in this clip are thinking the same way you do. They feel the exact same way and want to do the exact same thing you want to do these thugs, Yet at the same time they are being practical. They know that they are dealing with a group of Laats.

You would not want to start anything with bunch of zaboon nafahm who have weapons on them. Because like it or not, they have the upper hand and they are the ones who will subdue you one way or the other.

You going to jail was an unfortunate incident and should never have happened. Don't you think that to pretend that you respect their commands, while in reality and deep down you hate their guts and you know that you will act up on this hatred one day, will be a more pragmatic way to counter this stupidity? These bee-pedars and criminals needs to get hit where it really hurts, and through ways that would inflict deep and irreversible damage up on them.

Kaveh! don't even!

I am not defending the act! please don't start giving your buddy zion and the likes of her more ammuniation to attack me with!

I said please don't tell me you didn't see the gray haired gentleman arguing with the officer. 

If your wife is holding a bottle of beer and crossing the street in California, and if an officer stops her and tells her she can not be drinking in public, you will not attack the officer now will you?

These Iranian people are living in a land where the law and the officer of the law is taking the woman's right away. But it's illegal to attack the officer, the same way it is here.

The problem is the law of the country. The problem is that women do not have their basic human rights in Iran, but neither do men! 

So I am not seeing this as the guys fault. The fact that Iranian women have been able to losen the grip of these mullahs since 18-27 yrs ago (which was the worst time in Iran) and continue to fight the laws every day, is because the Iranian men support their wives and their daughters. If they didn't, Iranian women would have been worse off than the Saudi Arabians.

Give these Iranian folks credit for fighting the situation they're in and do not try to teach them how to be macho remotely! 

IRANdokht

Kourosh

Bro....I hear what you're saying, but I just can't go along with it. And as much as it sounds like gheirat, believe me when I tell you it's not. In this day and age, there is simply no justification for this kind of sanctioned mistreatment of people. It has absolutely no place in the civilized world. No one has the right to disrespect or harass me or a female family member, whether here in the States or in Iran. I'm not the kind of person who is going to sit quietly and allow it to happen, nor am I going to proverbially bend over and let myself get f-ed, either.

IRANdokht, I'm not going to think or react any differently if I were in Iran. If anything, I might get angrier if I were there.

For example, if we were a married couple, and were out shopping, or doing anything else normal people do in Iran minding our own business and this piece of scum started his crap over your hair showing or your nail polish or your ankle and laid even a finger upon you, he will be eating concrete. These are not just words. If I went to jail to protect and defend my spouse, so be it.

For the life of me, I can't figure out why you wouldn't take issue with something like this and are in fact defending it, being the free-thinking liberal you say you are.

Milgram experiment

WARNING: this is not a justification of brutality that is committed against women in Iran. It is rather for characters like Mr. Zion, in the hope of him keeping his fanciest and raciest views to himself.

[...The Milgram experiment was a series of social psychology experiments conducted by Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram, which measured the willingness of study participants to obey an authority figure who instructed them to perform acts that conflicted with their personal conscience.....]

[..The experiments began in July 1961, three months after the start of the trial of Nazi war criminal Adolf Eichmann in Jerusalem. Milgram devised the experiments to answer this question: "Could it be that Eichmann and his million accomplices in the Holocaust were just following orders? Could we call them all accomplices?"...]

[..Milgram summarized the experiment in his 1974 article, "The Perils of Obedience", writing:

The legal and philosophic aspects of obedience are of enormous importance, but they say very little about how most people behave in concrete situations. I set up a simple experiment at Yale University to test how much pain an ordinary citizen would inflict on another person simply because he was ordered to by an experimental scientist. Stark authority was pitted against the subjects' [participants'] strongest moral imperatives against hurting others, and, with the subjects' [participants'] ears ringing with the screams of the victims, authority won more often than not. The extreme willingness of adults to go to almost any lengths on the command of an authority constitutes the chief finding of the study and the fact most urgently demanding explanation.

Ordinary people, simply doing their jobs, and without any particular hostility on their part, can become agents in a terrible destructive process. Moreover, even when the destructive effects of their work become patently clear, and they are asked to carry out actions incompatible with fundamental standards of morality, relatively few people have the resources needed to resist authority....]

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Character such as Mr. Zion has one purpose in life, and it is to demonize IRANIANS,,,, and his ANTI-IRANIAN views is crystal clear on his call for booming of IRAN

Mr. Zion, I am certain, if opportunity arises you will make a perfect [Kapo] sir, if you get my drift.

Good day
-YT

Yet...

... I see the women in the clip speaking up and not taking any crap from the Islamic filth who is harassing them. I also saw university students a few days ago loud and out spoken and dissenting, although I am sure those students have much more at stake and will be in much bigger trouble than these typical impotent males if arrested. Why is it that these "men" can't do what women and students clearly manage to do time after time?

Kaveh

You would have thought differently if you had been to Iran.
Men who are put in that situation and do not act that way (as you suggested you would with the baton) have seen these scenes often, not just every now and then on a youtube clip on iranian.com. Please don't tell me you didn't notice the grey hair gentleman talking to the officer. Youtube partial clips are no way to judge a nation. It's easy to sit here and say they are cowards, they should have, they could have etc...

You and Zion really need to take a trip to Iran and see it for once! it'll help you with your evaluations of local situations too.

IRANdokht

Haji

Very good! Surely, you are doing a great service for these women in the clip. You have really helped a lot. I'm sure you are very proud of your "efforts". Keep it up.

Zizi-on

Ok, you don't have a brain to judge. That was what I wanted you to admit

Haji

I could not care less what you do with it. I leave the question of beam and speck to those with functioning brains to judge for themselves.

Zion

You’re God or judge? You know what we do with your contempt? I personally don’t care and you, take care of the beam in your eyes before you attempt to take care of the speck in your brother's.
ps. after my 'j' there is no 'i'

Haji

Knowing the evil that is in your regime is not of much value. What are you doing about it? It is your mess after all. I just see nonsense bragging here, about Israel or about Bush and Obama and so on. So dear, I am not trying to preach any news here. I am just expressing my utter contempt for this level of "lowlife-ness". That's all.

Kaveh You are not listening

Kaveh

You are not listening or rather not reading me correctly. perhaps because you are so full of rage and hatred towards such denigration acts and I understand.
I am not recommending abiding By "anything" the IRI sets as an acceptable set of decency and moral standards. These men are not Just realxing and standing around, as i am sure you can see some who are trying to meddle and interfere and resolve the case peacefully.

But don't you see, The more you resist the More outraged and mad they become. it is like you are fueling their fire and feeding their ego. One needs to be smart. Make them shut the F.. up. Make them quiet down, be smart about it and they will go the f.. away, instead of creatingsuch a scene. Just do what they say, not as in faithful obeyance, but Just for the moment. so they leave you alone.
If people are really fed up and want to do something, and i Know they are and they want to, they can start by starting to organize more demonstration, at all levels, and make attempts to inflict damages where it really hurts. Not by resorting to displaying Machoism on the street.

I sure appreciate your Cowboy-ish attitude and the intentio to show your might and the use of finely-sculpted muscles :)) But come on. Let us be real about this, this is nothing but your gheyrat talking here, and as iranian men we all have that, But Let us not play into their hands, and come up with more intelligent ways to beat these Mfs...

good talkin' to ya bro.
Ps. uuur peelaace eezz emptee on dee Beegest and mossst popuuulaar Bellooog. :))))) Youknow the one with 322 comments:)

Kourosh

Kourosh, the reaction you propose is one of capitulation. It is what they want. These filthy animals want you to conform; not to any so-called "standards of decency" or "modesty", but to their backwards mentality. As long as the general public remains quiet and doesn't stand up to this, it will continue.

This woman in the video who resisted has shown she has self-respect, and that she is not going to allow this miserable jerk masquerading as a cop to bully her. And these so-called "men" are just standing around like a bunch of olaaghs looking like they are waiting for someone to roll by with a samovar on a cart and offer them chai.

Abarmard mentioned an incident where his friend's wife was confronted because of showing too much ankle. If I were stupid enough to go back to Iran with those degenerates in power and I happened to be walking with my wife and someone dared to approach her because of something so asinine and ridiculous, I am not going to sit there like some passive sheep and take it. And if it were some gedah like this bastard in this video, and he even touched her, I am going to put his baton in his ass......sideways.

For God's sake, man, this is 2008. There is a limit to this nonsense that they have exceeded long ago.

Believe me, if more people began to stand up to this, these thugs will get the message. You mention that one runs the risk of getting thrown in the slammer. It's time to call their bluff.

Bravo Hajminator

You nailed the point. Now let's get back on topic:

Crazy IRI bla bla bla....

Bastards that they are...

Zion,

Do you think that you're preaching the good word when saying that the regime in Iran is a savage one? You really think that we, female and male iranians here, are pro-bastards ruling our country? Or are you just shocked when we say that Israel rulers are blood suckers too? You have a lot of things to do for people in Israel who look like this man so don't waste your saliva on iranian.com

SAVAGE ISLAMIC RELIGION....

.. religion of FORCE and PERSECUTION forced upon Persian society.

did you censure my comment?

What happened to my comment Iranian.com? Did you censure it? Why?

Zion we know all about IRI

Zion we know all about IRI,but we are stuck with this regime till we have a regime change,but I assure you that we may have a moderate regime in Iran,but we would not have a revolution in Iran like we had during the Shah ,not at least in my life time.By the way the clip had nothing to do with Iran having nuke or Palestinian/Israeli problem.Beside according to president Carter Israel as 150 nukes,why you think Iran can not have a tiny nuke.Don't you think that it would be a good attack deterrent if they had one which I doubt they do.

TODAY; UN Declaration of Human Rights Is 60

Good Morning

 What are we going to do about it ? I wonder ...

//iranian.com/main/news/2008/12/09/world-marks-un-human-rights-day

This is Islam savagery.

Still bow five times a day to a box in a foreign land and pay good sum of money to Saudi Arabia for a visit there. When you return, torture to death a sheep for forty five minutes while jumps up and down. You have seen too much BLOOD on your face in your lives that these woman beatings are not bothering you. You have been raised with savagery of Islam.

Oh zion, what an honor.

Excuse me?

I am palestinian lover? I have Thug buddies in iran? Since when? You know something i don't? or you are just making lucky guesses here? You have made it your full time job to spew nonsense and while living in the comfort of your own palace or mansion, criticize, denigrate, and make such baseless and idiotic accusations and assumptions.
FYI, I was not suggesting that men should be totally complacent, Or to quote your MADE UP version, to be quiet. There are smart ways of doing things and MAking a fool of these Thugs and not playing their game, is one of them.

I Know you don't grasp the concept, It is a bit out of your reach. You know, for someone who thinks it IS OK to bomb a nations facilities, without regards for the CIVILIANS who live around them.
Perhaps you were dozing off when, a gentleman on this same threat made a mention, while comparing the situation in Greece and iran, that in iran THERE IS THE FEAR OF PERSECUATION, Or a woman was Dragged off to god knows where by a cop while another cop held the husband down.

SO you see, My kind-hearted, super duper iran-loving zion, It is not a simple matter of being impotent and not jumping in and create a scuffle, People, You know, the decent and hard working people, would have to pay the price and suffer the harsh consequences

Think about that. Really.