Misc

Nadias

Thanks! That's the point I am making here. An indirect way of bringing a nation out of ignorance!

Kaveh:

I think the difference in our viewpoints boils down to whether we believe in strategy or not. In other words, I am not sure HOW you intend to make your wishes come true? Where is that force that would stand up to the regime and force it into submission? Where is that force that holds the villagers with their superstitions back and under control for a few years, until your forceful education program will bear fruit? What you are suggesting, in a way, is what some people in the US government are trying to do in Iraq and Afghanistan (separate from the imperialistic factions of the US government that has totally different plans). They are hoping that they will have military presence for years to come, until people in those areas are mostly educated and understand what democracy and many other modernities are. But we can see the results. I am not sure if millions of Iranians dying (as they did in Iraq) would be an acceptable price for such a risky business. And the final result in Iraq is yet years away, to see what will happen.

So, that's where strategy comes into play. If you don't believe in strategy and you believe that one should always attack his enemy head on, even if it is guaranteed that he would lose, or there is only one in trillion chance of success, then I suggest you review the history a bit - or just review the past 30 years in Iran.

But what is really wrong with wrapping all this into an Islamic package? Start a campaign called "Hizbollahi Women for Higher Education." Gather a bunch of slogans like I mentioned and talk to a buch of mullahs and get their support to create "Islamic" universities for scientific research for women. Spread pamphlets explaining that in 20 years from now Korean women who are not Muslims will set a better example for women around the world if we don't do something, and that would be betraying our prophet! No sir, we can't have that! We will fight the eveil non-Muslims who pretend to be Muslims and are stopping Muslim women from becoming educated! Let the heads roll! Just keep marketing the fact that Islam is not being taken seriously in the world because percentage of educated Muslim women is so low! You can get really creative on how to get the mullahs interested and showing them that this is to their advantage! Just keep wrapping it into an Islamic cover and keep advertising how this is a problem in the Muslim world.

You look at Israel. You think it is the Jewish faith that has allowed those people to be so powerful? No! It is the education they got from the West! They can call it Jewish and it's good because it helps convince old parents and superstitious people to let their daughters to go to school. That's strategy. Fifty years from now, or 100 years from now, who cares they are Jewish or not? Once they experience the sweet taste modernization, they conveniently drop the religious mumbo jumbo - as they have done in the West. And you don't even need to get upset! Just calm, peaceful progress. No need for heros or martyrs. As far as I can see the only reason sometimes people don't like this approach is because the "credit" may not go to them at the end. And that is a selfish issue not a concern about the future of a nation. Are we willing to do something for our nation and not care about who gets credit for it?

Once Iran is a democratic modern country, will we care if it is still called "Islamic?" Israel is called a "Jewish state." Is it really Jewish? No! Nothing about Israel is Jewish, except the outside propaganda. There is nothing in the Jewish religion to apply to a country! It is a personal belief system. Israel is realy a western style democracy - at least inside. So who cares if it is called "Jewish state?" The important point is that people in that place are having more fun than people in most, if not all, Muslim countries, especially if they can handle the animosity with their neighbors. But will we allow such a thing for the sake of a better Iran? Or will we be more interested in our name recognition and credit?

Kaveh and Mehdi.....

your comments remind me of something my former sociology professor said to the class: "Education saves people from stupidity".

By the way he is Iranian. Excellent professor too.

Solh va Doosti (paz a vosotros)

Nadia

Mehdi:

Allow me to clarify.

By honest, I mean that the approach should be more direct and blunt. "Get straight to the point", as the expression goes. In our culture, that's been a weakness of ours. Perhaps that's where some of the confusion lies. Of course I think they are all a bunch of thieves. Everyone knows my position on that matter. I'm not suggesting that we be concerned with what the ruling party thinks. I'm suggesting we put it in their face and shove it down their proverbial throats, as that is truly the only language they understand and will take seriously. We are not dealing with reasonable people to begin with. They are the kind of people that will take a "kinder, gentler" approach as a sign of weakness. They need to be brought down from their high horse, but they won't do it because you asked them nicely. They need to be pushed. Hard.

Yes, the Prophet said for us to seek education and knowledge from birth to death. But this is not just from Islamic scripture. This is universal. You want to make it a slogan in huge letters. I'd like it engrained in the DNA of every man, woman and child. Then, and only then, can we begin to truly improve this world we live in.

I acknowledge your point regarding those in the villages. But in order to reach those people effectively, we need to take the initiative and affect change in those who are more amenable to it first, those who already know the value of social equality. Then we can begin the longer process of proving the value of equal rights to the lower socio-economic classes.

To: Kaveh Nouraee

I am not sure why you think my approach is dishonest, and I am not sure why you are so concerned about being so honest towards a ruling government that you consider to be made up of thieves. But I am not even suggesting lying anyway. I am saying, take bits and pieces of Islam where it says people must be educated. Apparently Islam's prophet himself said that one must seek knowledge from birth to death. I am saying make that the main slogan - huge letters! Then demand that enough universities be built, enought teachers be trained to ensure that in 5 years or 10 years or whatever, at least 90% of women across Iran have at least an undergraduate degree! That would be VERY hard to stop! All opposition and all Iranians within or outside Iran along with practically all mullahs will support it. Who wouldn't? How could they fight it? Money will pour from all angles. Even the US government may chip in, if this is "marketed" well. This has nothing to do with being soft or have "taarof." This is a matter of presenting your case in such a way that all or almost all will agree on. It is a matter of strategy. It is a matter of how to get to your goal without any conflict or minimal conflict. Once you have that target, work as hard as you want; push as hard as you can; have no "taarof" whatsoever.

But when you say "equal rights," immediately you get into "what is meant by that?" Does that mean that women should wear no "hejab" because men don't have to? Does that mean our prophet was wrong when he said men could marry many women? Are you saying Islam is bad? Are you in fact fighting Islam? Are you a Zionist disguised as a freedom fighter for women? Maybe we should hang you and let God decide if we did the right thing or not? You see? And you think you can explain this to all the people living in the villages of Iran and make them all understand what demoracy is and how some of the old-fashion systems are actualy not good? Good luck! You'd be dead in no time at all! How do you think the IRI has lived so long? All they have to do is point to some group and say "anti-Islam!" The "people" will eat that group alive! How many times have we tried this approach in the past 28 or so years?

Mehdi....

While I see where you are coming from, unfortunately, it isn't a wholly honest approach, which may prove to be counter-productive in the long run.

You may call their approach "antagonistic", and I see how it would clearly antagonize those who adhere to the status quo. However, i believe that this is precisely what they need in order to revive them from this mental coma that they have lived in for God knows how long.

As a society and a culture, we have shown that historically we act soft when we should do the opposite. We literally have "taarof'd" ourselves in circles so that rather than progressing, we have regressed or at best remained stagnant.

It has been against our cultural norms to be direct in our approach to matters, and the results are what we have now. We can still adhere to our (Persian/Iranian) traditions and customs while being an active and productive member of the 21st Century.

Mistake

Personally, I think it would be far more constructive and fruitful to start a campagin asking for all women to be educated, and ask, as the goal, for "higher education" (university level). They could even state this under Islamic "law." Their slogan could be "Muslim women must be prepared for expanding Islam!" or some such BS. That way nobody could stand in their way, really. Practically, the whole nation would support them. If that goal comes anywhere near being accomplished, the society can't help but have human rights and women rights and democracy. Whereas this current approach is antagonistic, confusing to most "conservatives" and possibly dangerous. Why risk danger when you can get the same thing safely and with the blessing of everyone?

women's rights are human rights

Since human rights are the rights of all human beings, male and female
alike, human rights are women's rights and as long as violence against women continues, the promise of human rights
can never be...

These ladies are amazingly courageous and strong.

IRANdokht

I Would Like....

...to see more people sign the petition. I strongly urge everyone to do so.

Even though this is being primarily seen as a campaign for women's rights, it is really for all Iranians, men, women and children alike.

Unless these abuses of basic civil liberties and freedoms are stopped now, these abuses will not only continue, they will grow like malignant tumors.

Let us show the world who the REAL Iranians are.

The Campaign organizers deserve a Peace prize

The Campaign organizers in their collective should be nominated for the Nobel Peace prize.

A fantastic job. The 30 year opposition could perhaps learn a lesson or two from this campaign?

I liked the way the individuals had put up their own web sites and the creation of support groups.

Be Realistic!

This looks amazing! yes! but hen you look at the larger picture of what took us here. If the moms of many othese activists haven't asked for an "Islamic Republic', if they had though their mediocre requests back in 1979, our women and men as well wouldn't be in this situation. On the other hand, they are calling those laws as 'discriminatory' and are thinking that they canchange them. Well, Iran's laws are based on the islamic sharia law an the regime in charge of that country is 'islamic'...on the other hand besides these well educated and open-minded middle class women, there's a large sector of close-minded, backward women all deep inside islamic superticions and belief....the same type of characters who took us here, where we are now.

This one step forward and two backwards doesn't seem to work, unless men as well are involved in it. I'm afraid Iran is too much of macho nation, where men, even the well educated still want to keep women under their control (as almost anywhere else)

Revolution my a.....

Kamangir

Salute to all of you ..

for courage, compassion, dedication,
for raising your voice against "Gender Discrimination",
for demanding "Civil Right" fairness on the backbone of the country...

Let’s have some hope... maybe one day IRI backward government will understand women’s equality is fundamental to any surviving society...

BRAVO !

More Power To You for Your Brave and Just Cause !

Peerooz Basheed !

Tow'beye Gorg Marg'eh!

Deletoon ro saaboon nazaneed. Islam will not relent. This Islamic regime's very existence to a large extent feeds on oppression and objectification of women. How else could they keep all these macho men happy and content? (Including many Persian-American guys who go there annually for a jolly old time)

This is an amazing campaign.

This is an amazing campaign. Iranian women are creative, resilient, intelligent and brave. Khaste nabashid

here read this about law and freedom

//hajiagha.tripod.com
در جواب به این خبر ها زیاد به خودمان ناز ندیم ما کون مان گهی تر از ان هاست و بدبخت تر اواره امروز به شهرداری ویکتورا داشتم تلفنی صحبت می کردم و خانم می خواست جواب ای مال من رو بده برای شب چهار شنبه سوری دنبال مکانی بودم به من کفت اتش درست کردن در منطقه شهرداری ویکتوریا غیر قانونی نا امید شد و به شهراری درتر زنگ زدم خانم گفت هزینه ان ده دلار است و خوشحال پریدم تو ماشین و بعد از یک ساعت رانندگی هیچکس محل ساختمان شهرداری رو بلد نبود حتی دفتر محلی خود شهرداری که کارمند ان خانم چاق  زشتی بود داشت چرت می زد ...یک خانم کانادائی مدتی وقت گذاشت و ادرس دقیق اون رو گرفتم و رفتم اما گویا فهمیده بودن مشتری گیر شان امده گفتندهزینه ان فقط برای ٥نفر ده دلار است اگر بیشتر شدند باید اجازه نامه و پول بیشتر....شما ببینید تو تهران وسط خیابان ها مردم اتش رو شن می کنند و باز ایراد می گیرند اادی نیست . بدون کلاه ایمنی سار موتور سیکلت می شود و باز می گویند ازادی نیست. این حکومت ج اسلامی به کدام ساز ما باید رقص کنه...مردمی که تحمل اجائی قانون را ندارند و وحشی وار زندگی می کنند مگر می توتنند مثل ما بابت هر چیزی به دولت پول و مالیلت بدهند تو ایران ما ازادی بیشتر از اینجا داریم اگر اجازه داشتم به ایران مسافرت کنم حتما این ها رو به فیلم می کشیدم مردم ما خام و بی تجربه هستند و فریب فرهنگ غلط غرب رو می خورند و از اینجا و قانون های من دراوردی هم خبر ندارند

Just an advise

I think one of the reasons protesters in Iran have hard time getting results from their protests is that, when they protest the goverment slams them with remarks such as anti Islam and pro west. If they include and hold anti west slogans with their requests for women rights. This will neutralize the remarks from the government and protesters will achieve better results!!!

Nothing less...

...than AMAZING!

Good news. Great job. I Wish

Good news. Great job. I Wish they succeed.

Amazing women

Solh va Doosti (paz a vosotros)

Nadia