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Mehdi, K1, Terrible Legal SystemS

You are absolutely right. We have so many examples of a terrible legal system here in the States and indeed they are worsening. Historically, the double standards for whites and non-whites, Jim Crow laws in the South, the terrible McCarthy years, the internment of Japanese-Americans during World War II without compensation after their livelihoods were destroyed, celebrities in LA getting away with all kinds of illegal behavior (read about it in Michael J. Fox's autobiography), the invasion of the last president's private life just to follow a political agenda, beatings and murders of (mostly non-white) detainees, and many many more. Now since Bush the non-person status of Guantanamo detainees, many who were just kids who had no other way of making a living than joining the Taliban's military because they were starving, and then wound up rounded up with Al-Qaeda, the rooutine sending of political prisoners to countries where it is known they will be tortured, Abu Ghraib, the Constitutional violations of the Patriot Act, and many many more. Bush's administration BEGAN with a flagrant abuse of the legal system by taking supervision of the recount away from the state of Florida. It has been criminal from Day 1, eroding legality daily. Not that the US legal system was so fabulous before then, but it has gotten worse...

I am a Columbia graduate (1980) and I wrote on this site against Bollinger because of the HYPOCRISY of his attacking Ahmadinejad when he Bollinger has become the megaphone for Bush's criminal actions. It is certainly not because I love Ahmadinejad that I take this stand but I will continue to stand by it.

Having said that, this is a good site but there are some very disturbing voices here, and it pains me that people would make fun of Mr. Shakeri when he has just been let out on bail just because they don't agree with him because he was pro-Tudeh or Khatami or whatever. Especially when they don't even know what he was charged with. Since when is having been a leftist or a reformist a crime by any reasonable standards? Those kinds of comments are really harmful to people who are friends with him and they are also bad for Iran. Because some (not most) Iranians just don't understand that freedom means human rights for everyone, not just for your friends. These few but vocal Iranians can do a lot of personal and political damage. The same of course is true of some Americans and I hold my own country to the same scrutiny.

Anyway, you see where I'm coming from, I guess. Thanks for the dialog and keep us posted about Mr. Shakeri. I wish him well.
Rosie

TO: Rosie and Mehdi (terrible legal system)

Iran and US are not the only countries with this law. China has had it, Israelis have been doing that to Palestinains for decades, and of course recently those Brits started the same (after their 9/11 call it 7/11). Not to defend anyone, but it seems to be becoming "norm".

Regards,
K1

To Rosie

you ask what a trrrible "legl system" that can hold people for so long without charges and then not allow them to divulge the charges? I concur. But that is expected of the Islamic Republic of Iran. Lets just look around the corner at Guantanamo Bay. Just the exact thing is happening. It it not?

Take Care,

Mehdi

To K1

Thanks for your reply. This is my point exactly. What a terrible "legal" system that can hold people for so long without charges and then not allow them to divulge the charges. And instead of decrying the terrible "legal" system people are insulting the man who just got out on bail. Everyone should be happy he is out regardless of what they think of him. Everytime someone is released in such a situation it is a victory for everyone. Some people on this site are very cruel, and then they cry that the bad Mullahs are still in power...it is AWFUL!

RE: But What did He DO? (By Rosie)

Rosie,
The fact is that we don't know what was his fault. His case is still being investigated and he is free on "bail". According to Iranian law, him or his lawyers are not allowed to discuss his case before it is completed and a final verdict handed down. According to Iranian law he can be incorcerated for as long as 6 months before being charged. After charged (which I understand was the case for this gentleman), his destiny is in the hands of a judge. As in his case, the judge can tell him you are free on bail and should come back at a later date to hear the case, or can send him to jail until the full case is heard.

Regards,
K1

But What Did He DO??!!

But what did Shakeri DO that should prompt such vitriole upon his release? So he was with the Tudeh, then Khatami, and now (quick websearch reveals) a pro-West organization in Calfornia. Did he DO anything criminal that justified his incarceration?

If he DID, what was it? If he DIDN'T, then everybody should be happy he was released. ESPECIALLY if you don't like him. Because it means you have less of a chance of being incarcerated in Iran just because someone doesn't like you.

See what I mean? If he didn't DO anything criminal, you should celebrate his release instead of dumping on him.

So what did he DO? Not what does he BELIEVE, what did he DO? I'm serious, I'm American so I really don't know. Anyone willing to educate me?
Rosie

Ali Agha Shakeri, go eat Kaleh Pacheh every moring

Mr Ali S.
Now that mullahs let you go, make sure you eat kaleh pacheh every morning. If your collestral is too high, I suggest staying in Evin prison some more days. That place is good for your heart.

Shah Parast

To: Fair Judge Spin out of

To: Fair Judge

Spin out of control? No. just trust Freedom and protect it.

to: Fair Judge (who is unfair)

Fair Judge,
I guess all the statements you wrote claiming as a description of me and my character can be turned around and applied to you as well. How did you conclude that I am not in the modern world? I have stated that IF there was a reason to change the current iranian leadership, unlike what theorists, monarchists, MKOists, and other OPPOSITIONists claim, why isn't the public rising up and making that change? In my mind, the only REASON is that people are happy with the leadership, OR do not see a better ALTERNATIVE amongst the so called opposition (after all who wants a government spoon fed by the USA or Israelies?). What part of this argument YOU don't understand? Most people in Iran and Iranians outside Iran agree with hangging for murderer and rapists. After all it has been the law of the land since hundreds of years in Iran. Most people agree that the likes of Shaboon Bimokh should be identified and dealt with before they can inflict another damage on the nation. Most people in Iran want a good life not controlled by a foreign government. Most people in Iran, want to control their own destiny, through self sufficiency (such as in energy -- yes, nukes as well -- and other necessities), most people in iran want to have strong military so that the likes of saddam cannot be pushed by our enemies (e.g., USA) to attack our cities and rape and murder our inoccent civilians, and kill millions of our young. Therefore mollahs have built long and short range missiles (as imperfect as it is). I guess if these reasons are not clear to you to see that in fact what we all need are being done one way or another by the current leadership (albeit slowly), you need to have your brain examined. If on the other hand, you are anti-islamic and the fact that the government is called Islamic Republic bothers you, then that is YOUR problem. I careless what the name is, if they are doing the right thing, that matters. Perhaps this is the way most Iranians think!!!

Iran novin you are right about the new generation......

It is absolutely true that the leadership and effectively changes in Iran are coming through the younger generation but I do hope that this movement will be nothing like the 1979 movement. I think Iran and the Iranians have seen too much violence and bloodshed and enough is enough.
However you try saying that to the Islamists !!!
In today's society in Iran, it is difficult to see how a non violent confrontation like that of Gandhi's can succeed. This does not mean that one shouldn't advocate it though. We have to push the idea that violence, public hangings (or indeed any hangings) floggings, stonings etc, have no place in a civil society. I truely hope that the IRI government and indeed a good section of the Iranian society learn that violence and bloodshed is not the way to encounter criticism and opposition. Once the the vast majority of Iranians take this to heart and accept that everyone has the same rights as themselves, no more and no less, then this young and active generation will have a good chance of bringing prosperity to Iran.
Not wanting to make this comment even longer, I will just point out that the main problem with a grass root movement however, is that it can be difficult to control and give it some sort of direction and therefore there is always a danger that it can spin out of control.
One thing is certain and that is, barring any disasters and wars, Iran has a bright future ahead of it but I just hope for the sake of all Iranians that we will not have to wait decades to see it.

It is through bottom up leadership

We do not need leadership as it had been perceived by most Iranians. The days of top to bottom leading is over.

Our new generation in Iran are actually leading Iran and it is through bottom up leadership. It is a grass root movement and can be seen with students, workers, women, teachers, and so on.

It may not be looking as firece as 1979, however, it is powerful, deeply intellegent and contemplative of bringing democracy for entire nation.

So, either sit tight or just do something as group and positive for Iran.

To Anti Shaboon Bimokh.........Wake Up And Join The Modern World

I will reply to you even though you don't seem capable of reading comments properly and judging by your heading, you don't seem capable of putting together a coherent argument either !!!!!
I am not a monarchist (as it is plainly obvious from what I wrote) and I am far from being an MKO !!! In fact I don not support any of the political factions in Iran at the moment and this too, is plainly obvious from what I wrote !!! Before you start jugding, read the article properly . It will do you a lot of good.
Also if you really believe that the revolution has actually done positive things for Iran in the past 28 years,.......well think again very carefully. The revolution has brought nothing but death, destruction, misery, poverty, backwardness, superstition, and the list goes on. Name one positive thing that the revolution has brought about that OTHERWISE we would not have in the last 28 year????
Nothing. Zero.
Are you one of those revolutionaries?? Or a former one who finds it difficult to accept you made a huge mistake?? It certainly sounds that way.
The revolution in Iran has been one expensive and massive failure and the fact that it still carries on is because people like you still belive in it. Get a life and until people with your mentality don't join the modern world, we will still be in trouble in Iran.
Finally at the end of your comment, isn't it funny that you actually came up with my conclusion !!!???? That is to say that we don't have any credible leadership in opposition in Iran at the moment. Which is a great shame.

Bottom of the barrel

Perhaps now Shakeri can set up another set of “election centers” for their beloved Islamist Republic just as he did for Khatami. It is a matter of empirical fact, in order to stay relevant,Iranian lefties, especially the older ones, wholeheartedly stoop to the depth of any barrel.

to: Fair Judge (khaili roodeh derazi mardikeh )

Is it at all possible that in spite of MKO and Pahlavi parasts' claims and dis-satisfaction with the Iranian government and with the revolution, the revolution has actually served the people of iran well? I assume so. Otherwise, what would stop Iranians from another "revolution" and throwing the mullahs off the "cliff"? After all this time if you are againsit the IRI government, you would have the support of "$75M club" members and US government's backing. So, becuase some of us are pissed off at the IRI government, and in the west we are given "bolandgoo" to shout, it does not mean that MAJORITY of iranians are unhappy with the IRI government. To the contrary, majority of Iranians seem VERY satisfied and see no reason to do another revolution. After all, look around you and see what sort of alternatives we could have to mollahs!!!! Not very good ones, I would say.

No matter what, Ali Shakeri's release is welcome

Ali Shakeri was used as a political pawn by the IRI and he was put in Evin Prison on trumped up charges. Without any fair and internationally recognised judicial processes, accusations against him are not valid and as such, Shakeri should never have spent a day in jail. And his release should be welcomed.
I just hope that other political prisoners who are languishing in Iranian jails could also be released...... but this is wishful thinking !!!
With regards to Shakeri's associations with the Tudeh Party and Ebrahim Yazdi, ....the so called Iranian intellectuals of different factions have a lot to answer for.
All those who were instrumental in helping and bringing about the revolution (and I am talking about the intellectuals of the left, the Monarchists, Jebheh Melli, Islamists and a whole host of others) are responsible for what is happening in Iran at the moment. It is not enough to just say, "Oh well we made a mistake". That was one heck of a mistake !!!! And the rest of us Iranians who were too young at the time or those who had nothing to do with any political factions are paying the price. Not to mention that a lot of good Iranians have lost their lives and the misery is still continuing.
I for one would like to know what these so called intelletualls who still claim to know better, have learnt from their past mistakes. If they cannot tell us what lessons they have learnt, why should we trust them as they may well make the same mistakes!!! Shakeri et al included.
History will judge Iranians of this generation very harshly and there are some (if not quite a lot of) arguments that Iranians at this juncture in history don't deserve an awful lot better than this. Although being an optimist, I think with some visionary leadership, which has been lacking in Iran for possibly more than half a century, Iran can get back on track. Then again this maybe asking too much and it only shows how bad things are that in a nation of 70 million, no one stands out as a real visionary !!! It will take a very long time (possibly generations) before we can see Iran take its rightful place amongst the most civilised nations in the world.
Finally I would like to wish Mr. Shakeri well for the future and It is good to see him back with his family.

To: Mehdi Amini

Hey man,
Get real. We all know the so called members of the "$75 M club". Could your friend be one of them? Mullahs and others are more sophisticated than that to fall for them. May be you thought with your friend's release from Jail, we are going to "ghorbani" a "goosfand" for him? Well, if someone does that, please keep the "dombalans" for me.

Ali shakeri

I am so amazed by the sophisticated discussions following my posting who don't have the guts to use their real name...Kudos to you all. With such people, no wonder why the mullahs are rulling Iran!!!

Could he be another 21st century Shaboon Bimokh?

If yes, I say let him rot in hell. If not, let him go to his family and have a good time (and have a chelo kabob too). We don't need imported "democracy" and that kind of shit coming from Iranians' enemies. We need internal development that brings peace and prosperity for all Iranians.

"Dosotoyoski" and "Chagiz" are right

Personally, I don't trust anyone who was not a Savak informant or personal confidant of Ashraf Pahlavi. At the very least, they must display their "Rastakhiz" party membership cards on their rearview mirrors.

To Changiz Khan

Changiz good point, and as you know it was the confederation people who mostly were on the Iranian Oil Company scholarship and supported by Dr. Ebrahim Yazdi and they brought Khoemini to Iran with the help of the Soviets.

I do not know Ali, but I know Ebrahim Yazdi is the one that we should go after....

He is a supicious character

Shakeri was former confederation of students activist with links to the tudeh party. He is still serving other masters like most fomer tudehis.

Relieve

I personally don't know Mr. Shakari but relieved and happy that he was released. Contrary to others, he is a peace maker and Jomhoorikhah. Foad