Buying time

Coping with Iran


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Buying time
by Shaul Mofaz & Nicholas Burns
05-Aug-2008
 

On August 1, 2008, Shaul Mofaz, deputy prime minister and transportation minister of Israel, and Nicholas Burns, who until recently was undersecretary of state for foreign affairs, addressed a special policy forum at The Washington Institute. Mr. Mofaz and Ambassador Burns, who both led the U.S.-Israel strategic dialogue focusing on Iran, spoke about the challenges caused by Iran and its nuclear program. The following is a rapporteur's summary of their remarks. Online audio of this event is also available at WashingtonInstitute.org.

SHAUL MOFAZ
Iran's nuclear program is geared toward attaining military weapons capability -- something that constitutes an existential threat to the state of Israel. With such ability, Iran not only could attack Israel directly, it could also increase financial and material support under its nuclear umbrella for terrorist organizations such as Hamas and Hizballah, as well as for Syria. Iran has already provided Hizballah with long-range missiles that can hit most Israeli territory, and one day, Iran could also use this power against the United States and Europe.

In the next year and a half, there will be a new reality in the region. From Israel's point of view, an Iranian nuclear breakthrough is unacceptable. No enrichment should take place anywhere on Iranian soil, and at present, it is estimated that Iran will be capable of enriching low-grade uranium in 2009, and will be able to do so at military levels by 2010.

Iran's main strategy is to buy time, and so far, it is succeeding. Time is a decisive element in changing the picture and removing the Iranian threat. Based on Tehran's past actions, most anticipate that Iran will turn down the recent offer made by the Europeans and the United States at the Geneva meeting, and will choose instead to wait out the end of the current U.S. administration. The window of opportunity to influence Iran is becoming smaller, and is about to close. It is a race against time, and Iran is winning.

A strategic approach, therefore, is necessary to prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear capabilities. Several conclusions were reached during the July meeting of the U.S.-Israel strategic dialogue, one being that the world must present a united front against Iran. This includes international compliance with imposing financial sanctions on Iran, as well as barring the trade in conventional weapons with the regime.

Diplomacy should to be the primary method for halting Iran's nuclear program. In order for diplomacy to succeed, pressure on Iran's weaknesses must be drastically increased. Diplomacy, however, has its limits. The primary duty of Israel, like all states, is to protect the lives of its citizens; therefore, all options are on the table. If Israeli, U.S., or European intelligence gets proof that Iran has succeeded in developing nuclear weapons technology, then Israel will respond in a manner reflecting the existential threat posed by such a weapon. Israel takes Mahmoud Ahmadinezhad's statements regarding its destruction seriously. Israel cannot risk another Holocaust.

Israel also understands that its quarrel is with the current Iranian regime, not with the Iranian people. Only thirty years ago, Israel had excellent diplomatic relations with Iran, including extensive security cooperation. The current regime is not only hostile toward Israel, but also toward the rest of the world.

NICHOLAS BURNS
The Middle East is becoming the world's most important region, and is increasingly the focus of U.S. foreign policy. Current issues include fighting the war in Iraq, resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and preventing Hizballah and Syria from undermining democracy in Lebanon. In addition, the United States is concerned with the oil trade and its improving relations with moderate Arab states such as Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and the United Arab Emirates. Over time, however, Iran has become the regional focus.

Iran is the most difficult and complex challenge in the Middle East today. It is a primary supporter of regional terrorist groups such as Hamas, Hizballah, and Islamic Jihad, and it also funds the Shiite militant groups fighting U.S. forces in Iraq. Evidence also suggests that it has connections to the Taliban. U.S. policy should be geared toward preventing Iran from acquiring nuclear capability, preferably through negotiations and by working with the UN Security Council.

The United States ought to pursue three initiatives to deal with Iran: tougher sanctions, more diplomacy, and developing a bilateral relationship. Although the United States and Europe have been maintaining strict sanctions on Iran, the trade void is being filled by other nations, particularly Russia, China, Japan, South Korea, and the United Arab Emirates. In order for sanctions to be successful, these nations need to participate fully, especially since financial sanctions are necessary for diplomacy to work.

Now is the time for diplomacy, not war. Based on the evaluations of Mohamed ElBaradei and the International Atomic Energy Agency, we have reason to believe there is still time for diplomacy. Diplomacy requires the parties to be tough-minded and creative. U.S. representation at the recent Geneva meeting was a positive step, and Condoleezza Rice should be lauded for breaking with twenty-eight years of American conventional wisdom when she advised negotiating with Iran. That diplomatic opening is still there, and it would be folly to give it up now. All options must be kept on the table in order to force Tehran to respond to international objections. At this point, however, war with Iran is neither inevitable nor desirable.

A significant difficulty with Iran is that the relationship between Washington and Tehran, unlike Pyongyang and Havana, has been completely nonexistent. The United States has not had any permanent media correspondents, businessmen, or diplomats in the country since the Islamic Revolution of 1979. As a result, the two countries know nothing about each other. Another difficulty is the history of grievances between the two, such as the Mossadeq coup and the Iranian hostage crisis. In order to develop relations, however, both need to stop focusing on this legacy of bitterness and look forward to the future.

The situation may change when Iran holds presidential elections in 2009, because the country is not a political monolith. Although Ayatollah Ali Khamenei exercises a great deal of control, there are still relative differences between him, Ahmadinezhad, Ali Larijani (speaker of the Iranian parliament), and other influential Iranians, such as former presidents Ali Akbar Rafsanjani and Muhammad Khatami.

Iranians have been equivocating, even though reasonable proposals have been on the table for two years. The United States backed Russia's proposal that Iran be provided with nuclear power plants and fuel, thereby invalidating the claim that the world wants to deny Iran atomic energy. The Iranians need to answer the questions being asked about its nuclear program by the international community. At the present, the ball is in Iran's court.

This rapporteur's summary was prepared by Lauren Cohen.


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Yonatan, who's blaming the Jews?

by Shadooneh (not verified) on

It is important not to be too general when it comes to politics in the ME. Anyone who just blames the Jews for starting wars must be intellectually challenged. Based on you posts which clearly show your very narrow and xenophobic views I consider you as one of the certified member of that group. The Jews certainly have not started wars but the Zionist sure have. There is irrefutable evidence that Israel led by the Zionist ideology has cause immense misery to the people of the Middle East including the citizens of Israel. Look at the dismal job the Israeli government is doing by its inability to protect the Israelis living in the South against the missiles fired at them by the Palestinians, who in my opinion have very legitimate reasons for doing so. Let me tell you, Zionism and Islamism are two sides of the same coin. The Zionists and Islamists are exactly like the Bloods and the Crips which are two notorious criminal gangs in Los Angeles. There won't be any piece in the ME, and the world in general, until Zionism and Islamism are BOTH eradicated just like Nazism and Stalinism. The Jews and Muslims have lives with one another in piecee before. They sure can live in piece again. I'm not sure about you, but I am a firm believer of that.


Farhad Kashani

Anonym7, I'm very interested

by Farhad Kashani on

Anonym7, I'm very interested to know what is your definition of "extremist" is. Because you have constantly called me, and everyone else who criticizes the regime in Iran, and now Mofaz, an "extremist". You are well aware that I am pro choice, pro gay rights, pro separation of religion and state, pro internationalism, pro small government, pro reasonable taxation, and things like that, but yet, you call me an "extremist", so define that word please. For me, Mofaz is defending his country against a savage agression by the regime in Iran. So, please explain.


Farhad Kashani

Anonymm7, of course Iran

by Farhad Kashani on

Anonymm7, of course Iran ahs started wars. What are you talking about:

 

1-     Iran started the war in Iraq by claiming it is forcefully and aggressively is going to export its revolution to the holly shite land of Iraq and saying that it wants to create an Islamic state, like Iran, in Iraq. That means that Iran told a madman like Saddam it wants to topple his government. So, what should Saddam do? Sit there and take it? Also, why did Iran even do that? To what benefit to our people, did Iran wanted to export its revolution?

2-     Iran, since the creation of Hamas and Hezbullah, has been using those two to wage proxy wars against Israel. Read Hamas’ charter and se what it says: it says the Palestinian issue is secondary in importance for us to the creation of an Islamic state which is our priority. Hows that a “resistance group” or a “freedom fighter”? Lets say Hamas is “freedom fighter”, well, the Red Army defended USSR pretty well against the Nazi, but what happened next? As soon as the war was over, the Red Army massacred its own people, probably the same way the Nazis would’ve done it. Get the point? Hamas and Hezbollah are fundamentalist Islamic groups who are after power, they don’t give a rats ass about Lebanon or Palestine. Yes, they fight Israel, and Israel might to have to give up (As it should) occupied land because of those two, but, to Hezbollah and Hamas, that’s only a first step towards their goal, its not the goal itself.

3-     By inspiring and supporting Islamic fundamentalist groups in many countries such as Algeria, Egypt, Bahrain and elsewhere, it has made enemies out of those  governments. I don’t know how old you re, but in the 1990s, Algeria and Egypt both cut off ties with Iran because of the support Iran was giving to fascist Islamists mass murdering people in those countries.

 

There are other examples also.

 

Look at it this way, even if the IRI was justified in exporting its revolution (Which I don’t think they even believe that themselves!), but, look at what happened to France post its revolution. The French said they want to export their revolution to all of its neighbors, you know what happened? All its neighbors ganged up on it and attacked France. Same thing happened in Iran in 1979, Iran wanted and wants to export its dark vision to other people, and other people are resisting. Iranians don’t want the regime to export its dark vision. They don’t want animosity with the world, and they reject that dark vision, because that dark vision doesn’t represents them. Its not who we are.

  


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Yonatan: Kudos to you

by Anonymousaaa (not verified) on

Yonatan: Kudos to you regarding the vestiges of Arab colonialist vestiges who are hell bent to turn Iran into an Arab speaking countries like the others in the region. Good to hear from non-Iranians on this site.


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Easy Yonatan!

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

Yonatan says: "If Israel was a Muslim country, nobody with bother her, but because it rejects this facist theology, they are at war.. Plain and simple."

Yonatan, although I believe it is very necessary that everyone specially moderate and progressive Israelis and Jewish liberals put a leash on extremists such as Mr. Mofaz, by no means I believe Israel is the source of all the problems in the middle east.
As you correctly stated Israel has had nothing or little to do with many of the disastrous wars in the Middle East. Contrary to what fascist extremists such as Mr. Mofaze are saying if Israel and U.S. don't drag Iran into a war, time is on the side of Israel. Go read the history and also current news, and you will see Iranians (Muslim or otherwise) don't have a deep seeded animosity with Israelis. On the contrary many of us (like Esfahnis) are proud of our Jewish heritage .... when I said below, "I hope to see Israeli Interests Section in my hometown" I was not merely joking.


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Arabs want Israel's Culture Destroyed LIke Iran's!

by Yonatan (not verified) on

Iran has lost a good portion of its culture. many think this Islamic regime in Iran is Iranian culture, but rather it is a branch off of the Arab colonialists who contributed to the destruction of much of Iran's history, religion and cultures. Anyone who does not live according to their Quoranic values, will be decimated. Iran was a great ally of Israel and a brother and loved. To this day, there is monuments honoring King Cyrus. King Cyrus fought to save Israel! But now the selfish , oppressive dictator Ahmedinejab and his Arab warlord friends are going to make sure the non-Muslim country is destroyed.

Just wait though, G-d will not see his people suffer. I refer to the Israeli and Iraninan people. G-d loves Iranian people, but hates their leaders. King Cyrus did not fight in vain! I know many will die in Iran, but I hope Israel can help restore peace in Iran and remove its bloodthirsty arab loving terrorist leaders..

If Israel was a Muslim country, nobody with bother her, but because it rejects this facist theology, they are at war.. Plain and simple.


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Peaceful Jews

by Yonatan (not verified) on

Some of us peaceful Jews are afraid of seeing Islamofacist nazis trying to fulfill the dreams of the german forefathers.. I think us Zionists should do to our enemy, what the Iraq and Iran what the Iraqis and Iranians did to each other in the Iran-Iraq war. How come you people can kill men, women and children and nobody labels you "Zionist". But, if we defend our nation from terrorist atttacks and genocide threats, we are evil warmongers. Go look in the mirror you islamofacist terrorist!


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Islamic war machine can't sit idle

by Yonatan (not verified) on

Who started all the wars? Jews? Jews have been the world's scapegoats since ancient time. If Ahmedinejab has a bad day and hits his dog, it was a Jew who made him do it! Let me tell you, Islamofacists have started all the wars in this modern world. Jews are victims, first of European aggression and racism, now arab and Iranian Shiite aggression. You threaten to murder our race, you say the holocaust is a myth and that we stole land, that we lived 6000 years longer than these Arabs. Yet, you Iranians and Arabs burned down our synagogues kicked our people out of our homes and murdered many of us. Then you cry because we escaped to our homeland, now you want to wipe us off the map and earth! Who starts wars?

Arabs and Muslims have invaded and destroyed the lands of many civilizations and only a small fraction, like 10% of the land that muslims live today belongs to them. Many were forced to become muslims and accept Arabic culture, including Iranians, who now live under a culture they do not even like.

Who started all the Israeli wars? You are ignorant person. In 1948, the Arabs invaded Israel, saying they would wipe our children off the earth. In 1967, all the Arab nations surrounded Israel, in attempt to eradicate the Jews. They failed. Then, in 1973, the Arabs snuck up on the Jews on our holy day and attacked us while we were praying.

Who starts wars? Did Israel start Iran-Iraq war? You people murdered over 1,000,000 of your own people, who is to blame? Go read a history book, please not an Persian or Arab one.. Thank you.


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To Anonym7 and other doostan, please joing the other lobby.

by Shadooneh (not verified) on

Some descent peace loving Jews and non-Jews who are sick and tired of witnessing the hijacking of the US foreign policy in the ME by the right wing Zionist lobby AIPAC, which keeps beating the drums of war and recklessly jeopardizes the US interests, have formed their own lobby. I strongly urge you and others peace loving Iranians to join the J Street organization. Here's the link to their web site. You decide.

//www.jstreet.org

In my humble opinion we will not see peace in the ME until both Zionism and Eslmism are eradicated from the face of the earth.


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Iran, Israel interests section (to Fred and Jaleh)

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

I am still confused about what you guys are arguing over. However I am starting to suspect that you two are not the best candidates for making arrangements for opening of Iran's interests section in Tel Aviv and opening of Israeli interests section in Tehran and Esfahan.
.... I hope to see those offices opened soon. For the Office in Esfahan I would donate the land my father left me.


Fred

Keep on trucking Islamist lady

by Fred on

You say: “I hope you didn’t mind my using "Pushy Arrogant Jew".
I say, no dear Islamist lady I do not mind, didn’t mind your string of other depreciatory remarks either, nothing but was and is expected. It is a diminishing return kind of situation for all the Islamist/Anti-Semites and their likeminded lefty allies. Please keep on trucking.  


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Israeli war machine can't sit idle (to Nikkii)

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

Nikkii, you have got it all backwards. It is Israeli war machine that can't sit idle and needs to lube itself every now an then.
During past 28 years of its existence Iran/IRI has not started a single war, on the other hand Israel has started two maior wars and countless number of excursions to occupied territories.
Even Americans have realized the voracious appetite of the Israeli War machine for WAR, See:
"US admiral warns Israel against opening Iran 'third front'" //blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/2008/07/will_isra...


Jaleho

Fred the Zionist,

by Jaleho on

You said:

"should your patience and generosity allow, you might want to also shed
some light on where I, Fred the “Arrogant Jew”, has ever as you put it
: “  naturally assumes that "Muslim Arab and Iranians" should have no
problem with disgraceful "capitulation law,", all quotation marks are
yours and presumably quoting me the “Arrogant Jew” directly."

No Fred, sorry. There's a limit to my patience and generosity. Don't be a "Pushy Arrogant Jew" now and follow your own suggestion:


"The three links that you so thoughtfully have provided can be
viewed by the interested enabling them to follow the saga and
transgressions of the “Arrogant Jew”."

I hope you didn't mind my using "Pushy Arrogant Jew". I just wanted to give AnonymousHAHA a reason to practice his counting. Actually, should your patience and generosity allow, I have this further urge to call you a pompous ass as well, may I?


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anonym 7: What is your

by Nikkii (not verified) on

anonym 7: What is your solution? Genocide of all the Israelis?? Shipping Israelis to Alaska?? What if you were an Israeli reading this site, wouldn't you be alarmed at the extent of hatred and dehumanization of Israelis??

Do You think IRI is an innocent victim and we'll not use nuclear weapons to destroy Israel?


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I'm hoping Israelies are (to nikkii)

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

Nikkii says: "I'm hoping Israelis are reading this post. This blog is exhibit number one why the criminal regime should not have nuclear weapons."

Nikii, the Israelis are reading these posts, and the criminal regime, Israeli government, has nuclear weapons.


Fred

Islamist Lady & the "Arrogant Jew"

by Fred on

Thank you for your response. You have many remarks in quotation marks that are neither mine nor referenced.  Be that as it may, the crux of reasoning behind you classifying me as an “Arrogant Jew” seems to be as you put it: “You disregard the will of MILLIONS of Iranians and advocate that Iran must consider AIPAC as its best friend.”

 If at all possible and should you see fit, not that there is anything wrong with such advocacy,  could you please cite when and where I’ve specifically advocated for Iran to as you say must consider AIPAC as its best friend and not that after the overthrow of the Islamist republic AIPAC could be a good friend. By the way  did I get it right, just must consider and not must do it no questions asked? 

And while you are at it please provide substantiation for how you arrive at what millions of Iranians want and how and where I’ve disregarded this will of that many Iranians.

should your patience and generosity allow, you might want to also shed some light on where I, Fred the “Arrogant Jew”, has ever as you put it : “  naturally assumes that "Muslim Arab and Iranians" should have no problem with disgraceful "capitulation law,", all quotation marks are yours and presumably quoting me the “Arrogant Jew” directly.


 The three links that you so thoughtfully have provided can be viewed by the interested enabling them to follow the saga and transgressions of the “Arrogant Jew”.


AnonymousHaha

Jaleho- Now you have made 5 clear Anti Semitic Statements

by AnonymousHaha on

1. "Arrogant Jew"

2. "Jewish hold in the media"

3. "Jewish propaganda"

4. "he is among the Zionist Jews who do believe that Jews are
indeed "chosen people by God" who are entitled more than the Gentile

By the way, to my knowledge, the only Jews who believe in this concept
are the Neturei Karta, who Ahmadinejad invites to Tehran
all the time. All other mainstream Jewish groups have
clearly stated what "Chosen means."
However, anti semites always seem to arhue this garbage to support their views.

5. "Jewish soul being more valuable than non-Jew" in furtherance
of your twisted arguments.

First, As if you have forgotten that the Quran/Islam (like all religions) is
not based on the principle that it is superior to all other religions. Second,
as if the IRI (and the rest of the world) did not appreciate it when the
Israelis bombed the Iraqi nuclear program to shreds and saved the asses of
"70 million Iranians". Third, as if we are stupid to know that the IRI has itself engaged in anti Israeli propaganda and activities for the past 30 years. Fourth, the same people who make your stupid arguments in the IRI today, were the first to line up to purchase weapons from the Israelis in return for allowing Iranian jews to emigrate to Israel to take more "Palestinian" land.

Your attempts at making this a religious issue is retarded. It is well known that Iran
and Israel had
perfect relations before the IRI came to power. The Israelis, for example, transferred
Missile technology to the Iranian government for the missiles to be built in Iran
prior to the revolution. Also, no one had a problem with Iran’s
nuclear program before the IRI.In fact, the American were the ones who were
helping the Shah as this current nuclear program started under him.

The fact remains that the IRI is supporting all of Israel’s
enemies in the region. What do you expect? For the Israelis/Zionist to sit
quietly while they master the enrichment cycles which could shift the balance
of power? Because Zionists oppose the IRI regime, they are "Arrogant Jews?
But it’s OK for the IRI to oppose the Israelis with "MARG BAR ISRAEEL" "Propaganda" for the past 30 years? With your same twisted logic
are they not "Arrogant Muslims"?

If you are against Zionists politically, you do not need to turn it into a
filthy anti Jewish matter as you have done below. It actually helps the Zionist
argument as AnonyYahoodi states below. It only proves their point. You can say
and think whatever you like but realize that this type of rhetoric and thinking
will not solve the IRI's problems and will not change anyone’s mind except
people who think that the likes of Khameni and Ahmadinejad are actually
respectable people.

Finally, "post soviet" was not commented on because it was anti semitic. It was in response to your logic of the changing of American policy in the region. As I, and many others, have stated already, the Americans just agreed to upgrade Israel's weaponry even further by giving them Advanced planes that no IRI Russian made radar can detect, advanced anti missile technology like the Arrow 3, advanced Missile detection technology such as the X radar system and many more other goodies (like nuclear Subs from the Germans) to keep the balance of power in the Israeli favor. Why? Obviously AIPAC is doing a good job because people like you and the IRI retards makes their sales pitch much easier.

 

 

 

 


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I'm hoping Israelis are

by Nikkii (not verified) on

I'm hoping Israelis are reading this post. This blog is exhibit number one why the criminal regime should not have nuclear weapons. You don't give pyromaniacs access to gasoline or matches.


Jaleho

Fred the Zionist, here it is

by Jaleho on

Fred, glad to oblige.  You clearly don't seem to find the tone of Benny Moris or Mofaz or for that matter any other Zionist news which talks about "Israel questioning Iran's right to nuclear technology," or "Israel preemptive strike" etc. disgustingly arrogant. You disregard the will of MILLIONS of Iranians and advocate that Iran must consider AIPAC as its best friend. Anyone who has taken a look at AIPAC site would be disgusted with the degree of humiliating language used against Iranians by Zionists, their double standards, but clearly you're OK with that humiliation. I mean, so far as AIPAC stokes your Jewish pride you're fine with their humiliating anything Iranian or Islamic.

//iranian.com/main/blog/abarmard/iranian-...

Of course my first encounter with you was your STRANGE comment on my blog. I was surprised of this person who naturally assumes that "Muslim Arab and Iranians" should have no problem with disgraceful "capitulation law,", while addressing people automatically as "The Islamist/Anti-Semites and their lefty allies" as if this is the poster's first name!

//iranian.com/main/blog/jaleho/sofa-iran-...

Then I found this link about YOU which quenched my curiosity about your character, and saves me further search:

//iranian.com/main/blog/sadegh/freds-page...


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What would I do if I was the IRI?

by Outsider's view (not verified) on

This war has already been declared. So far, it has not included a major military phase- but if the economic pressures build up, the next phase will be a violent one.

So what would I do, if I were in the shoes of the IRI?

First of all, I would not pay any attention to Israeli Government or losers like Mofaz. At this point in time. They just want to get elected and need to bark at this point to get votes and money…

The key in preventing the next phase of war is in the Persian Gulf. If I was the IRI, I would put pressure on all the Persian Gulf States like Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Oman... Make it very clear to them that they would be invited to any future war parties. And that this time, we might start the party ahead of the schedule just to pay them a little extra attention.

I think they would understand and respond rather positively.


Fred

Lady Islamist

by Fred on

You say: “Fred has proven himself to be among these group (sic) of Arrogant Jews.”
Not that it would change anything or to belabor the point, just as a good to know, could you kindly cite the specific instance(s) that gave me away and  so convinced you to  classify me as belonging to the “Arrogant Jews” group?


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AnonymousYahoodi

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

Hamshahri, I visited Esfahan a couple years ago and after many many years. Fortunately Charbagh and many central areas had not changed a lot and they were still as beautiful.... Matin's store (the hunting supply) is still there but Saeedian's small business that I worked for long time ago wasn't there (merged to a new building). I walked around all the narrow alleys including the ones in joobAreh, Kanisseh Yaghoob was in good shape and those minarets were standing....
....... I am not Jewish but I worked for a Jewish owned business in Esfahan, serving Muslim, Jewish, Armenian, ... communities .... those were the best years of my life.
..... I remember those license numbers ... hopefully soon I will get a chance to check if they are still there!


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come on Jaleh!

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

Jaleh says: "And, Anonym 7,If you have a specific point-counterpoint argument, comment or question, I'd be glad to address them. Not really interested in general lectures and pointless back and forths. Thanks."

Jaleh, I have addressed you in two posts here and both of them started with criticizing you on specific points. One was related to your claim that Israel will be flushed "in the history's toilet", the other was related to your claim that "US has to flush Israel or it will go down with it".
Despite my deep disagreements with many of U.S. (and almost all) Israeli policies towards Iran, and my support and deep respect for Iran's resistance to these war criminals, I disagree with extremists like you. I will continue to criticize you, and will not be offended if you ignore! .... as you know even when I address something to you it is not read just by you!


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To The Resident Anti Semite Jaleho

by AnonymousYahoodi (not verified) on

Please do not stop writing your dirt. The more you write the better as far as I am concerned. You demonstrate to every body why there is a Jewish movement called Zionism and why as Jews we must support it. You also demonstrate
why 95% of the Jews are supporting Israel/Zionism whether they are on the left of things or right of things politically.

Please keep up the good work.

Anonym7,

I see that we are Hamshari. I was Born in Esfahan to.

I see that you have tried to be reasonable. Thank you. But do you see that there is no reasoning with this type of dirt? Do you see how similar her view is with that of the IRI?

I have not been to Esfahan since I was 9 years old. One beautiful think I remember are all the license numbers on the trees in Charbagh. Do you remember that? Is it still the same?


Jaleho

AnanymousHaHA, Anonym7

by Jaleho on

AnanymousHaHa, you take 4 phrases out of my posts and use them to label me "anti-Semitic", I guess according to what people in the west use as a reflexive response.

1. "Arrogant Jew"---I have referred (see the link I provided) to the article by Benny Morris in that comment I referenced. HE IS AN ARROGANT JEW believing in Jewish supremacy. That is, he is among the Zionist Jews who do believe that Jews are indeed "chosen people by God" who are entitled more than the Gentile. There are Zionist believers in Talmudic principle of "Jewish soul being more valuable than non-Jew". Benny Morris who was the best historian classifying the Palestinian genocide, later clarifies  that he thinks the only problem with that genocide was that it was not completed as the "Jews" deserve the "cleansing" of the non-Jews. His NYTimes article was an extension of that ARROGANCE,  disregard to the lives of 70 million Iranians for the comfort of 5 million Jews of Israel.

Fred has proven himself to be among these group of Arrogant Jews. 

Still, I am here on record to believe that progressive Jews form the best strata of fight against DIRT of Zionism. I have stated that I believe it is very natural for these Jews not wanting to be represented by the illegitimate state of Israel and its crimes.

2. "Jewish hold in the media"--- again, my comment to Morris article in NYTimes, the link I gave and you clearly didn't look at

//iranian.com/main/news/2008/07/18/using-...

was discussing Salzberger family's NYTimes and the myriad of other known papers, like the Globe, Der Spiegel, International Herald Tribune, and the Jewish reporters like Judith Miller, Kristol, and Thomas Friedman who were the mouthpiece for Iraqi war.  Friedman himself boasted that "Iraqi war would not have happened had it not been for a handful of people," he names some influential Jews of the media (himself included) and the Jewish neocons were mentoined by him as a BOAST to influence of Jews in US policy.

3. "Jewsih propaganda"----- is EXACTLY what Benny Morris, Shaul Mofaz , AIPAC and all of the Zionists of the media have been doing recently 24/7 to foment a US war against Iran. If the rush of a trips by Israeli politicians to US for that push, the MYRIAD of articles by the types of Morris and Mofaz is not considered a propaganda and push for war, MORE INTENSE than what they did for Iraq war, then I don't know what "propaganda" is.

4. "post soviet"---- I have no clue since when the phrase "post soviet" has become an anti-Semitic phrase. Expound please.

And, Anonym 7,
If you have a specific point-counterpoint argument, comment or question, I'd be glad to address them. Not really interested in general lectures and pointless back and forths. Thanks.


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RE: The message in the bottle.

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

Shadooneh, good points (as usual). As you know even Jewish liberals in the U.S. know about disasters like my crazy hashahri Mr. Mofaz. You may have seen this blunt statement from George Soros:
"I am not sufficiently engaged in Jewish affairs to be involved in the reform of AIPAC; but I must speak out in favor of the critical process that is at the heart of our open society. I believe that a much-needed self-examination of American policy in the Middle East has started in this country; but it can't make much headway as long as AIPAC retains powerful influence in both the Democratic and Republican parties. Some leaders of the Democratic Party have promised to bring about a change of direction but they cannot deliver on that promise until they are able to resist the dictates of AIPAC. Palestine is a place of critical importance where positive change is still possible. Iraq is largely beyond our control; but if we succeeded in settling the Palestinian problem we would be in a much better position to engage in negotiations with Iran and extricate ourselves from Iraq. The need for a peace settlement in Palestine is greater than ever. Both for the sake of Israel and the United States, it is highly desirable that the Saudi peace initiative should succeed; but AIPAC stands in the way. It continues to oppose dealing with a Palestinian government that includes Hamas."


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Jaleho are you Iranian?

by Anonymousaaa (not verified) on

Jaleho might not be Iranian. She certainly does not sound like any Iranian I know.

And if you're not Iranian, do you think Iranian should give blood and treasure to liberate Palestinians??


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The message in the bottle.

by Shadooneh (not verified) on

Juxtaposing these two pieces was a brilliant idea - whoever thought of it baba das mariza. Mofaz's piece is just a canned off-the-shelf right wing Zionist rant put out for electioneering purposes by a washed-out politician - in fact I have a strong suspicion that his "Iranian(ness)" is working against him, just remember what happened to the other "Iranian" Moshe Katsav and his imbroglio, and Dan Halutz who "lost the war to Hezbollah". In fact the "Iranians" gave Israel two war-criminals and a rapist all members of an ultra-right wing party that has lost its friends and influence in the US administration and to some extent the Congress. Burns point out the fact the US policy vis-a-vis Iran HAS changed from pure intimidation and bullying to more "accommodating" posture. Nothing real, but the best is yet to come. The US wants to get back to business in the ME instead of loosing its pants there as Israel defies the US and keeps building illegal Jewish settlements on stolen land, ditching the "road map" and directly endangering the US interests in the world. Not long a go the US Chief of Staff told the Israelis in their face that he had two wars on his hands and he did not need a third one. Israel is facing the prospect of being left holding the bag as well as facing Iran alone once the US "interests section" is opened and the relationships start taking shape. That's why the Israeli politicians, especially the ones who are looking to grab the PM position in Israeli, keep making hard line utterances to prove to the nervous and confused Israeli public that being tough is answer to all Israel problems because Israel is "defending itself" in a see of enemies. Israel has been told by several leaders who visited there for its 60th birthday that it has to change its ways and work towards peace with its neighbors. Sarkozy told them bluntly that they are making mistakes, Germany told them to shut up after Israel started throwing a tizzy once the news of sale of three gas liquefaction plants to Iran was announced and the Italians told them they needed to modify their behavior. Israel and its Zionist zeitgeist has reached the end of its shelf life and Iran must to its best to precipitate that process IN A POLITICAL WAY. I think Iran is doing a good job because the result will be a better ME maybe free for nukes too.


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Jaleh where are you going with this!?

by Anonym7 (not verified) on

Jaleh, where are you going with your extreme views? Let's assume that U.S at some point in the future dumps Israel!? So what? at best it is a theory, it has NOT happened yet! and it is not happening soon!..... and even if it happens Jewish Americans will provide plenty of support to Israel!
Iran does not even have a border with Israel and you are so fixated with Israel. Not only among average Iranians but also among more religious Muslims Iranians (inside and outside Iran) I haven't seen your kind of systematic and extreme views against Israel!
..... I don't know what happens in near future but after all the dust settles .... this animosity between Iran and Israel has to go away .... even Ahmadinejad has recently reduced his rhetoric! (see: //news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080720/wl_mideast_af... ) .... don't keep bragging about what you have read or wrote, have some common sense ....


AnonymousHaha

Anonym7, do you see the Classic Anti Semitic Jaleho Responses?

by AnonymousHaha on

Do you understand that there is no reasoning with these people. Look at the classic buzwords:

1) "Arrogant jew"

2)  "The Jewish hold in the media"

3) "Jewish Propoganda"

Observe the twisted thinking and analysis. Is it any different than the thinking and mind set of the akhoonds back at home? 

"Post Soviet" blah blah blah..... 

The US just agreed to supply the Israeli with even more sophisticated weaponry, anti missile systems, Stealth war planes that can evade all the Russian made radars and SAMS, X-band radar.....and the list goes on. 

Do you understand now Anonym7?