PEACE

Iran/Israel angle

I'm fully aware of Israel actions in the region. Although Israelis, like everyone else, have a right to live in peace and security, Israel deserves condemnation for the mistreatment of the Palestinians by ethnically cleansing them from their homes and colonizing much of their land as well as ignoring and breaking numerous UN resolutions etc (with the continued support of the US, it should be added). No argument there at all.

But what on earth has the Israelis/Palestinian conflict got to do with Iran? Who appointed the Islamic Republic the care taker of the enemies of Israel? There are many other instances of injustice in the World e.g. China in Tibet, Sudan in Darfur, Morocco in Western Sahara etc. If The IR is so worried about horrible regimes, why don’t we see it interfere in those countries? Why is it that the IR and some of us are so obsessed with Israel? “AKHE BEH MAA CHEH RABTI DAAREH”?

Whatever charge you want to level at that country, Israel was never an enemy of Iran. But now, thanks to IR’s proxy war against it, we have another enemy. And for what? The irony of the situation would be laughable if it didn’t mean such a raw deal for the Iranian people. We have a regime, the IR, that on one hand mistreats so many of its own people, and on the other rages about actions of Israel against another people that have nothing to do with Iran!! Whatever we think of Israel, at least it treats its own people decently, unlike the Islamic Republic of Iran.

And as a result, not only has Iran made another powerful enemy from a conflict that is none of its business, but it has also squandered countless millions of dollars of the Iran’s wealth, which belongs to the people Iran many of whom live in abject poverty, on the likes of Hamas and Lebanese Hezbollah.

And many of these Muslim (Arab) countries that you say were threatened by Israel, have actually made peace with Israel and stopped giving a damn about the Palestinians decades ago. And yet, Ahmadinejad and co still wish to see the end of Israel!! It’s just plain madness.

To: BK

You are forgetting that Israel was there 30 years before IRI showed up. In fact it could be argued that the rise of such governments are a direct result of the ovewhelm that Israel has imposed on the so-called Muslim countries by threatening their existence with advanced weaponry and nuclear bombs. Besides, it is an uncomfortable fact that those who have more power have more responsibility. Israel does have much more power. It would be VERY easy for them to extend a hand of friendship but they prefer to be bullies and even go to war and endanger their own people but not do that. I do not approve of Ahmadinejad's policies of taking up a fight with the west and endangering Iran but I think Israel is far more responsible if simply because of the wealth and extensive power and support that they have. These proxy wars did not start by IRI. Israel started them first in the region. The whole thing was based on force and power not friendship and peacefulness. You got your facts way backwards.

One last point

One last point, if I may.

The "war" has already started!

It is a proxy war that the Islamic Republic has been conducting against Israel through funding, training and supporting the Lebanese Hezbollah (which IR created in the first place) and Hamas in Palestine. IR has also been conducting a proxy war against the US by doing the very same through the Iraq Shia militia particularly Moqtada al-Sadr's heavily armed gangs.

Are we still going to disregard IR's culpability in creating this conflict and blame it ALL on the Americans and Israelis?

I am still concerned

Until there is absolutely no sign of a potential war, I can't even bother with the current problems of the regime or Iran. They are NOTHING compared to what could happen.

The problem I see with "also working on the regime" is that there is no way to not allow such work to NOT benefit the warmongers. Right now, what the MEK has done (fighting the regime) is THE MAIN excuse used for such a war. I don't care how many times the MEK CLAIMS that they don't support the war - their actions say "attack now!" These are just COVERT ATTEMPTS to pacify peace activists.

“An attack on Iran would be an attack on Russia.”

To Mohammad:
I just published your story in the Russian Newspaper Kommersant. This is their website:

//www.kommersant.com

I placed my comment in the forum here:

//www.kommersant.com/forum/mess_show.asp?id=6...

My post leads off with: "PUTIN Promises Russians Will Die For Iran?"

I think that if Putin ever did say this, someone in Russia will know. We’ll see what the people on Kommersant say. They may never have heard about it either!

Pro Patria

Its true

The talk of attack on Iran is just that. Both Israel and USA (even neocons) realize that Iraq would be a walk in the park compared to Iran. Iran is twice the size and 3 times the population, it has terrorist agents all over. Any attack on Iran would simply give those terrorists the
license to cause problems every place. Its not going to happen, however McCain's proposal (to disinvest in companies that have a subsidiary in Iran may be adopted. This was done to South Africa and it hurt them, they will slowly make Iran Pariah state, ban from Olympic ...), also Obama will not be elected because IPAC says so.

To Mehdi

Mehdi agha, you won't get any argument from me that serious effort is needed to prevent an attack on Iran. Under no circumstances do I want to see any foreign attack on Iran, (well apart from in the event of a wholesale genocide on the scale of the one in Rwanda, which - thankfully - is highly unlikely to happen in Iran even under the IR).

I also agree that elements within both the US and Israel have committed crimes of various kinds and flouted International Law on numerous occasions. So as far as Iran is concerned, yes by all means, let’s keep the pressure on these countries, so that their more reasonable and far-sighted leaders will change course away from conflict with Iran.

So far, so good.

But here is where I have issue (not with you personally), but with all my fellow Iranians who are solely focusing on US/Israel to prevent war. Maybe some of us do not wish to face reality, but the biggest contributor to the ever increasing dangerous predicament Iran finds itself in presently, is neither the US nor Israel. The main is reason are the policies and actions of the Islamic Republic over the courseof the past 30 years that have made Iran a pariah state and a potential target for an attack. I can go through the list of at least some of the reasons why I think this is the case if anyone is interested (as I did in the NIAC discussion - unlikely, as readers are probably already too bored to read on).

So here’s my point on this matter, yes absolutely, let’s take Bush & co to task and pressure them to desist from this war mongering posturing towards Iran. But why isn’t anybody putting pressure on Ahmadinejad and co to change course? Why isn’t anybody/groups lobbying the Islamic Republic to at least moderate, if not totally drop, its hostility towards West and prevent Iran from needlessly becoming a target? It takes TWO sides to bring about a conflict; so why are we solely focusing on one side and not other, which after all also happens to be our mother land?

Clarification

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Ever since 9-11 the Iranian nation was one of the candidates for a pre-emptive, unprovoked, military attack conducted by the same war criminals that have devastated Iraq.
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Many, including myself, were active in the antiwar movement. Most agreed that this period of time was not the right time to weaken the Iranian government and instead we should stand united, even if our disagreements were in the form of being a royalist, cult member, or anti-mullah.
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Sadly a confused few favored an attack thinking the price was acceptable for the removal of the current regime. Maybe they just wanted to regain possession of their confiscated assets and thought war would bring this about.
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Recently the circumstances have changed and such an attack is increasingly unlikely and instead other forms of pressure are being applied.
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Given these new circumstances Iranians need to work for lasting peace and the essential ingredient for this is the establishment of true democracy in Iran.
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This is not to say that the possibility of war has totally disappeared and we should not be vigilant.
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Iran will remain in danger as long as the world’s economy is dependent on fossil fuels.
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The issue is that given the receding danger of war Iranians need to redirect their attention towards lasting peace and this requires the establishment of true democracy.
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I hope the above clears up any misunderstandings.
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Mohammad Alireza

To: BK (not verified)

I stand corrected on the word utopian. My bad English.

Other than that, I see you misrepresenting my words. I did not say that people who want a better Iran are pro-war. What I said was that those who claim the war plans should not be stopped unless the Iranian regime sort of surrenders or whatever (not clear what exactly is wanted other than some utopian system, which is impossible as you mentioned) are covertly selling their war plans. Iran becoming a better country does not justify this war that is being planned.

Now, when you say, "The possibility of bombing has effectively become a pretext fo...," I don't know what others think, but to me, this potential war is by far a more urgent issue than anything the current regime is doing. All the hoo-ha about the regime seem to indicate about 400 people being executed every year, which as far as I know, is at least partly the demand of the people (laws of retribution) and could be avoided if people wanted to. But in any event, any damage that the regime is doing today, or has done for the past 10 years will be nothing compared to the first few seconds of destruction by a potential war, even through a so-called as "surgical strikes." If any kind of war does take place, in 10 SECONDS there will be more Iranians dead than in the past 30 years under IRI. So, yes, I see that war is by far more urgent than the regime itself. Does this justify cutting some slack for the regime? I think it does. I think it is time to face a new enemy, if it hasn't been the real one all along (after all, the US is the primary benefactor of the existing regime, despite the cry of wolf).

If Iran should be attacked based on ridiculous claims of the US, then Israel should have been flattened 60 years ago for all the terrorism they brought into the region; for all the nuclear weapons that they posses illegally. Why is the obsession only with one country?

The regime has many flaws but none of it even vaguely justifies a war. Those who claim that a war is necessary don't even have any credibility but groups such as Israel lobby have always had unusual and unfair influence over the politics and governments and people, including the American people do not know how to uproot such criminal groups.

The REAL criminal is Israel and elements of the US government (here I am not talking about people, I am talking about certain elements who have hijacked governments). Let's target the REAL criminals.

Covert? Yes, I must be a CIA agent!

Mehdi says:

"...Those who say that we must first turn Iran into a euphoric state (by far better than any western democracy) before we object against a potential war against Iran, are simply saying that the US must bomb Iran if there is no submission on the part of the Iranian regime.

In the words of old wisdom: "GOOZ CHE RABTI DAREH BEH SHAGHIGHEH?" (what does a fart have to do with my skull? - implying two very unrelated things)....."

Where on earth do you get idea that those who wish to see Iran become a much better country for its people (which considering the present circumstances must can’t be that difficult) "are simply saying that the US must bomb Iran"?

What utter nonsense. That is what YOU are saying, which is a gross distortion and misrepresentation of what's been said. For the record, I'm implacably opposed to any bombing of Iran by US, Israel or any other country, even despite the kind of regime that’s been misruling Iran for nearly 30 years. Whatever change that needs to happen in Iran must happen internally by the Iranian people themselves. End of story.

To begin with, the word you were looking for is “utopian” NOT “euphoric”. And nobody is saying that Iran has to become a utopian society before we object to attacks on Iran. No country can in reality become a perfect society, but if you are saying the Islamic Republic is the best that the Iranian people can hope for and cannot be improved on, well you are entitled to your opinion, but I don’t share in anyway whatsoever. But I trust that is not your view.

You bring up the “GOOZ BEH SHAGHIGHEH CHEH RABTI DAREH" angle. Well, here’s is the “RABT”: this whole business of the possibility of US bombing Iran and what the US MIGHT do to Iran, has almost completely overshadowed and pushed off the debate what the Islamic Republic HAS BEEN DOING TO IRAN during its rule.

The possibility of bombing has effectively become a pretext for those defending the Islamic Republic to try to stifle debate and divert attention from the main reason why Iran has become a potential target of an attack, namely the hostile actions of the regime in Tehran, that has set itself up as an enemy of all things Western. You only need to look at the numerous articles on iranian.com and nearly all it’s “US this or US that” and hardly anything about Islamic Republic’s culpability in endangering Iran and the Iranian people. Iran is a target because Mr. President Ahmadinejad and co have made it target.

And please be good enough not to once more distort what I’m saying here about US. The US has it share of the blame in stoking up tensions between the two countries. The moronic George Bush and the rest of his war mongering neo-con bunch have already made a huge mess of Iraq and no one with any sense or love for Iran wants to see them do the same to Iran too.

To Mohammad Alireza: I compeletely agree with you that it is the Iranians themselves that have to bring about change in Iran. What I was trying to say was this should be done by a democratically elected government (by the people), which is fully accountable to the people and other democratic institutions, like the parliament, that will apply checks and balances to the government’s policies.

Best regards.

Covert attempts

Those who say that we must first turn Iran into a euphoric state (by far better than any western democracy) before we object against a potential war against Iran, are simply saying that the US must bomb Iran if there is no submission on the part of the Iranian regime.

In the words of old wisdom: "GOOZ CHE RABTI DAREH BEH SHAGHIGHEH?" (what does a fart have to do with my skull? - implying two very unrelated things).

This article simply says we should stop being concerned about a potential war with Iran and I am saying we should stop being concerned ONLY when the drums of war stop beating. What does this have anything to do with the internal probelms of Iran? Are you saying that Bush's intention is to help the Iranian people by bombing Iran?

Based on your logic, the US should also bomb Israel so that the problem of Israel-Palestine will go away. Are you suggesting that? Are you saying that is the way to get rid of those blood suckers in Tel Aviv? 

zainab sisters

If you have looked at the picture at the top,you realize that those women holding hands are supposed to prevent any attacks on country sites:)

Excellent post BK

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My suggestion would be that you expand this post into a full article and post it on iranian.com, or some other site, as it contains important points.
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However, when you write, "...only relax when there is a regime in Iran that implements:", this I don't agree with.
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Iranians themselves have to do the implementing, not some new regime. Don't you think doing it ourselves holds greater value, and worth being a part of rather than something imposed from above, as it has been done all these decades?
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Acheiving all that you have listed will be a far greater accomplishment than building fifty nuclear energy plants, something Iranians can do it if they set their minds on it.
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Mohammad Alireza

re: Is this an attempt to slow down peace activism?

Medhi say:

".....Why should we sit and relax when the drums of war are beating? Because you say so? We should relax ONLY when the drums stop!...."

"“We"? Well, you might be right about whoever this "we" is/are, but there may be others who feel that "we" should only relax when there is a regime in Iran that implements:

- true freedom of expression,
- democracy and democratic institutions,
- respect for Human Right of all citizens
- total equality of men and women,
- freedom of religious belief (of any kind),
- genuine freedom for political opposition,
- competent management of the economy and the country’s affairs,
- abandonment of funding and supporting extremist groups all over the Middle East,
- prevention of state sponsored thugs from violently interfering with the what people eat or drink or how they dress,
- an end to arbitrary harassment, arrest, torture and execution of those it doesn’t like,
- separation of massjed and state,
- abolishment of unelected clergy councils that veto who can/cannot participate in election based on their arbitrary religious whims,
- fully independent, competent judiciary that that will hold accountable all before the law including the government,
- the halting of the erosion of Iranian national identity, heritage, traditions and culture in preference to continually promoting fundamentalist religious dictat
- support and celebration of the cultures and equal rights of all various ethnicities that are citizens of Iran
- etc, etc, etc.

So, maybe some people will go beyond the mere prevention of a military attack on Iran and will “ONLY” relax when all of the above and more has been achieved…………..but then again, maybe some of “we” won’t.

Source for Putin Warning

First is via Pepe Escobar, and his reporting has proven to be very reliable over the years. The second is from the Indian newspaper The Hindu.

//www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/IJ26Ak06....

//www.hindu.com/2007/10/17/stories/2007101762...

Mohammad Alireza

Question for the Author of this article

You say in your post quoting Putin that:

 “An attack on Iran would be an attack on Russia.”

Can you please provide a "reliable" source?

Thanks

AL

Title of article

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It should be noted that the title I gave to the article was "Seeds of Peace" but the editor of iranian.com chose to change it to "Don't be scared", which I think gives the wrong idea of what the article is about.

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Mohammad Alireza

Response to Mehdi

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No, this is not an attempt to slow down peace activism.
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We are a long way away from peace. The war drums will beat as long as the world economy is dependent on fossil fuels.
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The article is pointing towards a lasting peace via the establishment of true democracy in Iran, which the current regime is less likely to offer.

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Mohammad Alireza

Is this an attempt to slow down peace activism?

Why should we sit and relax when the drums of war are beating? Because you say so? We should relax ONLY when the drums stop!

AT LAST SOMEONE MENTIONED THIS

I am glad for once someone mentioned this issue. US can not afford to attach Iran for the following reasons;

- they did not achieve much in afghanistan

- they have great difficulties in iraq

- they will be short of personnel if they go into Iran.

Since the revolution different groups been prepared to fight US. If US attacks Iran it would be totally different ball game for US. If they do how on earth are they going to explain it to their own people.

Robert's Rule of Order

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The link for Robert's Rules of Order was left out in the article. Here is the link:
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//www.robertsrules.org/

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Mohammad Alireza

God's Rep on Earth

Who knows, maybe all that is required to bring about change in Iran is to learn how to conduct a meeting in a fair and civilized manner --- and without anybody sitting at the head of the table and pretending to be God’s representative

God's Rep on Earth >> editors at iranian.com
he he he

The biggest warmongerer in

The biggest warmongerer in the world for the last 30 years has been the Iranian regime. The world will not see peace until the regime is in power, regardless of if there is the rightest of right wingers or the leftest of left wingers in power in the White House. We went from having Carter, the biggest left wingers who is loved all over the world in power, to Bush, a right winger who is not popular around the world, being in power. The situation hasn't changed. The laat and fascist regime in Tehran is still trying its hardest to to pick a fight with the U.S. The problem is the IRI.