POINT

FACTS II

Poll not true! Propaganda! If true, they would be on the streets! If true, these facts would not exist! Not just Iran, every country should be ready!
Thanks for your comment.

re: facts

Dariush, Iranians had better prepare themselves (to maximum extent possible) for that 1/3 that is not peaceful but I don't see any point in insulting that 2/3 or denying that they exist!

FACTS

If in fact Israel wanted peace, they would not have violated the peace agreements signed 50 years ago!!! If in fact 2/3 of Israelis wanted peace, they would have the majority and there would be peace!!! If in fact they wanted peace, these majorities would stop the expansion/invasion and GENOCIDE!!! If in fact they wanted peace, they would stop another HOLOCAUST not to promote one!!!
The fact is The fact, there is no use denying it!!!
That is one world order!!!

2/3 of Israelis are for peace (to AM1)

AM1, I do believe that neocon/AIPAC type extremists want to destroy Iran and Iran should be very prepared. However as you know despite their enormous power they are not the only players, even in Israel according to the latest poll 2/3 of people are looking for peace. So I don't think we should consider everyone in Tel Aviv a blood sucker! ....
Once again .... I do agree with you that neocon/AIPAC types will not hesitate to destroy Iran when/if they can.

Re: OPEC WAS TARGET II

Dariush

Your analysis is correct (I think). Although sad, but that is the new policy of the blood suckers in Tel Aviv. Since they cannot bring the ME to its knees any other way, their apporach has become destruction of the infrastructure as they did in Iraq so the war-ravaged people would say we are helpless and we accept you. The blood suckers in Tel Aviv know that there is no other way for them to be accepted among the people that they have occupied and destroyed their lives.

I think Iran's policy of supporting Hezbollah in the summer 2006 war was a very smart move. It told the blood suckers that before they can get to Iran they have to pass this bridge and they could not. Blood suckers lost. I think Iran should play its cards right. They should make sure Lebanon does not fall in the enemy's camp. The should keep hezbollh powerful. They should support Syrians and bring them to the status of a reasonable military power. What iranians are doing (if so) in Iraq is very smart. Keep them bleeding. Don't let it stop. As long as the US is bleeding in Iraq, I don't think they will have the balls to start another war. They are putting financial pressure on Iran so that if anything, they can succeed in that direction. Sadly some Arabs are collaborating with the blood suckers in Tel Aviv on this front!!. They would since they are not really from their own people. They are imposed on their nations (e.g., SA, Egypt, ect.).

OPEC WAS TARGET II

As the plan "A" is in progress by pumping millions of uncounted barrels of oil from a newly repaired,improved and secured oil plant in northern Iraq. Unites states started to have the economic difficulties and the revenue of these oils must be spent on war and to get the most money they keep the supply shorter than demand and shift the blame on OPEC. plan "B" was to target Iran. This can not happen when Iran has allies on both side of Israel. Israel and Iran can only attack each other by air. Israel has the advantage of nuclear weapons while Iran has allies on both side of Israel. when Iran responds to Israel attacks these allies can move in to Israel and that may be the end. To avoid this, Israel must first destroy the allies of Iran. To do that, they send U.S. navy to persion golf and keep Iran busy with their nuclear energy issue. Then they test the water in syria by attacking a supposedly a nuclear factory and freez syrians there. Now is time for palestine and lebanan. They remove the current president to replace with a much more pro west/Israeli president by dividing the people, So when Israel attacks lebanon can press the hezbollah agains lebanon's army and destroy hezbollah from both sides. If not gone as planed, west will invade lebanon and get the job done by claiming to help lebanon and fighting terrorist groups. Now to start the fight is better to start with the weakest. That is palestine. To make sure Israel has lowest possible casualties, they must divide people in palestin, So palestinian do most of the job for Israel. Once one group is destroyed the other group is next, because Israel can not take chance, no matter how scared the fatah may be. After palestine the war with Lebanon will start and then Iran unless the new U.S president change the plans and end this madness or the countries in the region unite and stop Israel and U.S. from invading palestine and Lebanon and put a nationalist goverment in Lebanon and the Iraqi Government take control of the oil export and the OPEC stay united.

Where is your zeal

Islamist zealots are blind bigots with pre-arguments and the same aggressive stake to savagely bash any Iranian patriot. Where is your zeal, you the mercenaries of Arab Sayyeds, treacherous Sheiks, and anti Iranian IRI? Shame of all real Iranians on you.

Real problem

The IRI savagely rules, continues to repress both social and individual freedom, threatens people with stoning, amputations,lashing, throw people off a cliff in a sac... None of these barbarian acts is mentioned by Islamists, fanatics, IRI's thugs or payed mozdoors on this site.

The victims of IRI's atrocities are not only offenders, but also the IRI routinely execute dissidents on bogus charges such as armed robbery and drug smuggling.

Before, IRI’s judiciary has eliminated political opponents on the charge of being a mohareb “waging war on God”, now they add new bogus charges.

The real problem which must be discussed is that most people in Iran look for an free era without this regime. This is their clear wish.

Re: OPEC was target (Darisuh is exactly on the target)

Dariush, Bravo.

You are exactly on the point. This is precisely what we have been trying to  tell to some on this forum who are still wrapped in their "stone age" ideologies.

Thanks,

Almo

OPEC was target

To answer one of the questions. If these wars were just a mistake by west, they would have stopped them. These are planned from years ago, but they didn't go as planned. I saw the war on Iraq comming in mid 90's when the price of the oil went up. Iraq was the best target. Had plenty of oil, had attacked neighboring countrees and looked bad, had a dictator ruler and they could make a strong case to sell the war to the world. The purpose was to crush OPEC. To do this, they take over the oil production in Iraq and instead of buying 90% of their oil from OPEC at high prices, they pump that oil out of Iraq for free or almost free. This will reduces opec's sales and creat a competition. This will force opec to reduce the price to whatever west is willing to pay. If successfull OPEC may even be desolved due to need and competition of the membering countries. Such drops in oil prices and being the main source of income for most of oil pruducing countries, will be devistating to these countries and they will suffer from hunger to many other problems and west can do anything they want with these countries. As you see the main architects of these plans are the zionist in west and Israel. You can tell what the rest of the plan is. One world order ruled by zionists!!! slavery for others!!! Thanks God to a few brains out there who have prevented this from happening for now.

To: Farhad Kashani (RE: Asghar Geda, the tyrannical .... )

No you are wrong. You do not seem to understand that there is a "reaction" to any "action". You need to figure out (as many have already --apparently not you and JR yet) the sources and reasons for those reactions in the ME. For example, you cannot see your home bolozed on your head and on the head of your wife and children and keep quiet (so why do you expect the palestinians and lebaneses to not show reaction), you cannot watch murder of your family and children by bucnh of gun toating creatures and do nothing, and you cannot be subjected to a 1953 coup and sit around as if nothing haoppened, you cannot see your farming and agriculture land that supports your livelihood taken away from you and do nothing.. These have reprecausions and consequences, my firend. What we see in the greater ME, are all natural reactions to inhuman actions (of mostly westernrs).

A/G

From Juan Cole: Jihadi

From Juan Cole:

Jihadi Movement Calls For Efforts To Prevent Iran From 'Interfering' in Iraqi Affairs

The USG Open Source Center translates an Arab nationalist call to the southern Shiite province of Maysan, which is ruled by the Sadr Movement of Muqtada al-Sadr, to block Iranian influence. In fact, Maysan, which borders Iran, is negotiating with Iran to receive electricity and other aid.

Movement Calls For Efforts To Prevent Iran From 'Interfering' in Iraqi Affairs
Jihadist Websites -- OSC Summary
Saturday, March 22, 2008

Terrorism : Movement Calls For Efforts To Prevent Iran From 'Interfering' in Iraqi Affairs

On 14 March, a jihadist website posted a statement issued by the Iraqi Movement for Defending Iraq's Arabism, in which the group calls on the chief of police of Maysan Governorate to support the national movement in the governorate and take action to prevent Iran from interfering in Iraqi affairs. The statement is attributed to the Iraqi Movement for Defending Iraq's Arabism and is dated 14 March 2008.

A summary of the statement follows:

The statement starts by addressing the people of Maysan Governorate, saying that "the occupation came to kill your love for your nation and to divide you into sects so that it would be able to control your resources completely."

The statement goes on to say that this [American] "occupation coincides with Iranian infiltration into Iraq under the banner of Shiism and the love of Prophet Muhammad's household," and calls on Maysan's chief of police to "side with the forces and movements that raise the banner of Arabism and Islam, reject the occupation, and seek to prevent Iran from interfering in our affairs." The statement also calls on the governorate's officials "to join the Iraqi Movement for Defending Iraq's Arabism in order to take part in saving the nation from the new tragedy that awaits it."

The statement concludes by urging the people not to give up their city and homeland and calls on them to prevent "foreign interference" in their affairs.

A wide portion of Iraqi seculars- sunnis and shiites alike- and ordinary citizens leaving alone millions of Arabs all over the Arab world, is against the destructive destabilsing role of Iran in Iraq.

Don't forget that this Arab-Persian rivaly goes as far back as 3000 B.C when the semitic Babylonians where controling parts of Iran and fighting the Indo-Iranian barabrian tribes.

The Iraq- Iran war in the eighties was only the last episode of this historical struggle.

Therefore, it is quite normal that Iran is so keen in destroying Iraq and converting it into fundamentalist "turbaned" client state torn by sectarian conflicts.

Asghar Geda, the tyrannical

Asghar Geda, the tyrannical structure in the Middle East existed long long long before the 1953 coup by monarchists. The real nightmare started with the rise of Islamic fundamentalist groups in Iran and Lebanon in the 70s and eventually the Islamic regime takeover of our country in 1979. It is since that day that oppression and regression has been pretty much part of a daily life in almost all Middle Eastern countries and the main reason for that is the Islamic regime’s support of death cult groups and ideas.

Kamangir, based on what

Kamangir, based on what logic or political analysis do you say that “disintegration of countries” is somehow a conspiracy plan by the U.S? First of all, these countries have been making their living by selling oil to the world, not just the U.S, for the last 60 years or so, and the oil supply rout has been pretty stable. So why does the U.S suddenly decides to spend so much lives and money to start a war in Iraq just for oil? By the way, where are the top 2 oil exporters to the U.S? A hint: They are not from the Middle East! They are Canada and Mexico. If you do a cost-benefit analysis, that doesn’t even make sense. The fact of the matter is that the U.S did make mistakes in Iraq. Big mistakes and yes, Bush should be held accountable for them. And if we look at “reality” (And I know that word has been translated to the word “conspiracy” in Iranian dictionary), there are far more evidence that this was a strategic mistake rather than a “planned mistake”.

do not believe a

do not believe a wester-phobia leads to independence and progress, but rather it is an ideological tool of extremists to cook up regimes like the IRI or the previous stalinist one in Afghanistan. Such extremist states sooner or later will be economically dependent client states to the one or another foreign key power. A sane state is a servant of its people and a friend of humanity and , based on experience, only such a sate can be independent because it is a free choice of its people and less likely can bargain over the national interests with the key powers. See indendent, because democratic, India vs Pakistan.

Most excellent. If only Islamist apologist wake up and smell the coffee. Thank JR. You're one of a very few original thinkers in the Persian community.

To add: (one very good point JR)

JR, you made a very good point in the paragraph that I have pasted below. However I don't agree with you on blaming Iran, considering that US/Pakistan/Saudi Arabia are directly responsible for empowerment (or creation in case of Taliban) of Wahabi Jihadist movement. ... which by the way is the major challenge for US, ... and Afghanis right now!
JR said: "In actuality, this religius presentiment does not lead to a solid future for freedom, independence and democracy because it ideologically denies all of them. It does not solve the future problems in our today's world, but will rather be used as populist trampoline for the corrupt, reactionary Islamists to create governments even with the help of "non Muslim" West, as it is the case of Wahhabi, Pakestani Islamist Generals, the US-backed Shiite gov. in Iraq, or Hamed Karzai in Afghanistan, and maybe a faction of the IRI as a government alternative to this one."

Our friend JR -- don't take him seriously !!!

Dear Anonym7, Geda, and the rest who have been trying to have a dialogue with JR so far without success. In my opinion this fellow is very nice,  has a bunch of pre-written bioler plates which he chooses sentences and paragraphs from, applies to almost any circumstance (whether it really belongs there), and puts them together to fit any ocasion he wants them to. For some reason he full of hate for Islam, without him knowing why? With all due respect to him, I do not think he has depth of the issues or a solid argument with regards to the history and/or what the ME people have been through, given the attitude and policies of the western governments, including occupation, coup-de-tas, desturction, rape of its citizens, demonization, and other issues. Just don't take him seriously.

AM

To add

Iran with its experience aside, all ME countries might freely choose Islamic states. The choice has its reasons in the collective conscience. It is formed by emotion, belief and history. For example: Islam to Arab Middle East is meldded with the history. A history of Caliphate of pride of Islamic "Golden Ages", led to long Crusades, defeated and being looked down in the period of colonisation by "non Muslims", and recently worsened by a history of "non Muslim" invasion in the "holy" territories of "Muslim" Palestine, a "third Crusade?" Of western arrogance by proping Israel potential up to occupy "Muslim" territories, and the US invasion of Iraq radicalised the ends. All of which in a region with lack of democracy and modernity, with a lack of a Renaissance has created an emotion of self-identity-defence which is expressed through religion as an intact front of unity with its jiadi impetus endorsed by all its mentioned past. However, in Iran we have the plague of the IRI with all its negative experiences of Islamism. This is the reason Iranians would never freely choose an Islamic state.

In actuality, this religius presentiment does not lead to a solid future for freedom, independence and democracy because it ideologically denies all of them. It does not solve the future problems in our today's world, but will rather be used as populist trampoline for the corrupt, reactionary Islamists to create governments even with the help of "non Muslim" West, as it is the case of Wahhabi, Pakestani Islamist Generals, the US-backed Shiite gov. in Iraq, or Hamed Karzai in Afghanistan, and maybe a faction of the IRI as a government alternative to this one.

I do not believe a wester-phobia leads to independence and progress, but rather it is an ideological tool of extremists to cook up regimes like the IRI or the previous stalinist one in Afghanistan. Such extremist states sooner or later will be economically dependent client states to the one or another foreign key power. A sane state is a servant of its people and a friend of humanity and , based on experience, only such a sate can be independent because it is a free choice of its people and less likely can bargain over the national interests with the key powers. See indendent, because democratic, India vs Pakistan.

I would appreciate your instructive analyses and friendly counter questions instead of some libellous accusations.

Thanks all of you

JR

JR: The level of vitriol

JR: The level of vitriol hurled at you is in direct proportion to the truth you tell."

---

Your Response Mr Rashidian?

JR

ASghar Geda has raised a number of interesting points below and it seems that so far you have stayed shy of any responses. He has indicated that he does not care about your religeous beliefs.

For example, today, in my opinion, islamization of the region is occuring at a faster speed than its "westernization". Why is that? The countires in the ME including Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Jordan, Egypt, etc. are more gravitating towards iranian policies  than the western ones. Somewhere I read that in every arab young man's house you find Ahmadinejad's picture. He is  celeberated as  a hero who stands up to injustice. Therefore, why should we criticize them for that islamization trend? Aside from propaganda that the west is holding up in terms of "Islamic terror", it seems that the people of ME are finding their beliefs to be more substantial than buying into western style politics. What is your response?

Thanks,

AM

Re: Almo5000 are out of

Re: Almo5000

are out of touch with reality of the middle east.

You are out of touch with reality of the Western civilization and financial world order.

Mr Rashidian you are out of touch ....

Mr Rashidian,

You are out of touch with reality of the middle east. One of the writers below has clearly indicated your lack of understanding history of the middle east. I suggest you read a bit of history. As they have indicated, please don't use your "boiler plates".

"The Islamic Totalitarian

"The Islamic Totalitarian movement, which enjoys widespread and growing support throughout the Arab–Islamic world, encompasses those who believe that all must live in total subjugation to the dogmas of Islam and who conclude that jihad (“holy war”) must be waged against those who refuse to do so. Islamic Totalitarians regard the freedom, prosperity, and pursuit of worldly happiness animating the West (and especially America and Israel) as the height of depravity. They seek to eradicate Western Culture, first in the Middle East and then in the West itself, with the ultimate aim of bringing about the worldwide triumph of Islam. This goal is achievable, adherents of the movement believe, because the West is a “paper tiger” that can be brought to its knees by sufficiently devoted Islamic warrior.

//www.theobjectivestandard.com/issues/2006-sp...

UNITY

I want to thank those of you who are brave enough to speak the truth on this site and else where in spite of ...... such as kamanir, ali kababi, asgar geda, anonym7 and some others. Unlike Mehdi in another part of this site who thanks U.S. for not dropping nuclear bumbs on Iran for the problems Iran has caused to the world Or thanking U.S for freedom that has given him so he can critisize Iran in United States. He is afraid to critisize U.S. in U.S. or Israel on this planet. Happy New Year

JR, you did not answer my question!

JR, my question was very specific and related to who trained, and provided Islamic schools for the Wahabi jihadist movement in Pakistan/Afghanistan and you changed the subject (read my posting below).
BTW JR, although I don't agree with you (and I believe you exaggerate consistently) I am not a Muslim. In fact one of those whom I respect is a Jewish Liberal named Georege Soros who says:
"I am not sufficiently engaged in Jewish affairs to be involved in the reform of AIPAC; but I must speak out in favor of the critical process that is at the heart of our open society. I believe that a much-needed self-examination of American policy in the Middle East has started in this country; but it can't make much headway as long as AIPAC retains powerful influence in both the Democratic and Republican parties. Some leaders of the Democratic Party have promised to bring about a change of direction but they cannot deliver on that promise until they are able to resist the dictates of AIPAC. Palestine is a place of critical importance where positive change is still possible. Iraq is largely beyond our control; but if we succeeded in settling the Palestinian problem we would be in a much better position to engage in negotiations with Iran and extricate ourselves from Iraq. The need for a peace settlement in Palestine is greater than ever. Both for the sake of Israel and the United States, it is highly desirable that the Saudi peace initiative should succeed; but AIPAC stands in the way. It continues to oppose dealing with a Palestinian government that includes Hamas."
JR, If you want I'll provide you with the link for Soros article, maybe that will help you write more objectively!

R: Ananym 7

Please donot try to bully in an Islamist way. I have told you clearly my position about your repeated accusation and I can repeat it as I it is clear in my previous writings.

Concerning your second polemic: a garrison was opened in 2005 to recruit and train volunteers for “martyrdom-seeking operations”, its commander is Gen., Mohammad-Reza Jaafari. If you do not still believe me, let’s have a look in the then related press.

The Division is under the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps and is supposed to recruit and train jihadi volunteers for jihadi operations.

Val salam 

do you want another war? (to JR)

JR says: "In resopne to your second point: Islamist militantism is officially in Iran. Jihadis are recruited and trained in Iran."

JR, that is what you and your spiritual leader M. Ledeen claim. The reality points to Afghan/Soviet war, Pakistan, Taliban, Saudi Arabia, ..... as the source of the Wahabi type Jihadist movement, a dominant and international phenomenon. Fortunately many Americans and descent enough to acknowledge that.

Anonym 7

The paragraph which is quoted in your comment is a factual premise--in fact, the logistical capability of US attack on Iran does not militarily seem possible. True or not, this merely military idea has nothing to do with my political position. Although, I have always opposed a military attack on Iran , I reiterate it in this thread.

In response to your second point: Islamist militantism is officially in Iran. Jihadis are recruited and trained in Iran.

do you want another war? (to JR, and AK)

Ak, although we have a slight disagreement about Ledeen I agree with you that the necocons have been after the "reshape" of Middle East for many years. And that is why I was questioning JR about this paragraph:
"As having got bogged down in Iraq, it is difficult for the US to open the second front against the Islamic Republic of Iran which is the main sponsor of terrorism and it has failed to bring pressure to bear on the regime concerning their bilateral conflicts.".

JR, although I understand your concern about Islamic extremism (and if I were in Europe I would even understand more), I am puzzled by your paragraph above.
As expressed even in mainstream US media, the strongest and most aggressive form of Islamic extremism worldwide is the Wahabism. It is very strong in Pakistan/Afghanistan, it is strong in ME, Europe, ... etc. As you know the most reactionary and fascist elements of this movement were created or empowered during the Afghan/Soviet war through the Madresas and training camps that were run by US, Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and not Iran!

I agree with Kamangir

No failure - Days after 911 - Bush Said: This is going to be an unorthodox war which will be long and unlike any other war. Did you miss that ?   At least as far as America is conecerned - This war is not about Iraq - nor is it about oil.  IT is about the ISlaimc Terror network with foothold all across the middle east and Africa.  

No failure my good man - this will be a long battle which will be fought both on the field and on the media to educate the clueless.   And this particular article by JR certainly does not help our side.