COMMENTS

Nazanine Jan

If you read my comments you'll find that I find Bruce brilliant. He is. This article while not necessarily brilliant is just a good idea. And one that is in keeping with the universal laws of journalism, publishing, and human decency. 

I remember you were hugely upset about JJ's decision to require registration, and I remember feeling puzzled then by your vehemence, much as I do still.

You ask Who cares who we are?
The answer is we don't really care who you are so much as people need to be held accountable for what they say, specially when they incite hate or can destroy a reputation.   People (even with phony handles) become invested in their online image and so it helps when you know at least the "persona" behind the handle, and they're easier to track.

Also, you say:
"Good users" are always complaining about personal attacks but go on to wholesale attacks."

First off, I think you are a "good user", and enjoy your sour (sometimes bitter) but always intelligent sense of humor.   
But it is absolutely correct: It is NOT ok to "attack" an individual (it is illegal, but more importantly it is unkind).  An example that comes to mind is accusing people like JJ or Trita Parsi of being an agent of the IRI...To my knowlege they are not.

But is is absolutely OK to criticize an ideology, a doctrine, a behavior, a group, a dogma or a culture, as long as you back it up with facts, examples and a good thesis.  Any thing less is just the sign of an uneducated, unsophisticated mind.

Finally, All JJ's "friends" or "brothers" hardly agree.  Bruce and JJ have major differences of opinion, and do Bruce and I, and most thinking people.   We can't all be neatly placed into one little pigeon hole for easy categorization.   I am 100% certain that you are on this (JJ's) site far more often than me (based on your posts under this handle alone) so I would think you would be a friend of JJs as well.  If not, why support his site with your charm and wit so frequently?

 Peace.

Nazanin I think we should discuss this subject every 2 weeks, or

as needed :-) until we come up with a resolution that is 98% acceptable to all.  Saddam Hussein got 99% of the vote and we didn't believe him and kicked him out only to f*** it up 100%.  We just need to shol kon seft kon until we get it right.  I believe the next step should be writers' ability to delete while commenting at will by all.

As far as provocative blogs and articles there should be a limit.  Of course you can say screw god, burn the koran and Americans can eat shit and suck dicks, but so what? Are we trying to be "cliche shekan"? is this really a cliche?  Others have already been there done that.  What we are doing here is just a bad and cheap imitation of what the original "artists" were able to achieve by causing worldwide protests and retaliations againts puppies and sheep (can't find the link about throwing grenades at sheep and throwing puppy in a mountain).

How many worldwide protests have there been for anti-Islam beliefs in recent memories.  I remember these; 1) Salman Rushdie and Satanic verses, 2) throwing korans in Guantanamo's toilets, 3 cartoons of prophet muhammad.  They haven't given any shit on other stuff, certainly not the stuff here.  Nothing on Fitna so far.  It has lost its edge.

On the American side, I guess the latest were from 9/11 comments from Bill Maher's who said don't call the hijackers "cowards" and more recent comments from Jerry Fallwell and Jeremiah Wright about America deserving 9/11 due to homosexuality and state sponsoring of terrorism in Israel.  Are we to compare these silly blogs and articles to some of the above? Above comments were proven to be bull shit and those who said it later said, goh khordeem, or after their death others in position of authority said goh khordan.

So let us forget about obvious goh khordan haye ziyadee. If they can find a platform in Iranian.com where they can't find it anywhere else doesn't mean it is right or even remotely interesting.  Yawn.

As far as life in Trailer Park America I think we are going to disagree.  I see those people's lives as how it is and don't wish them any more pain.  While it may sound funny, it is actually tragic. We certainly being a foreigner aren't in a position to laugh at them. I want to find a good way to bring attention to their cause not summary dismiss them as just trailer trash.  Many of us are rednecks and trailer trash and don't even know it.  Just like calling Iranians having a stick up their ass. 

Well Said ...Ahsant va Marhaba

I can't argue with what you wrote. Hands up I am Taslimeh Shoma. You must have had a good portion of your education in Iran...Damet Garm.

Somehow this site had alot better articles 6-8 years ago and the decline in the quality of writings could be attributed to the Parazit Online of which your truly is a occaissional transmitter.

This is something for you Bahmani, from another article....

I read "bahmani's comment" and felt that I have to say this!!!
by Tahirih (not verified) on Mon Mar 31, 2008 01:02 PM CDT

I have been biting my lips and in reality holding my hands as not to write this,but something in my deepest part of my soul says "say it" so here it is:

every religion has to end and when the end comes it shows the signs of old age ,but since God is so kind he sends another one to not leave humanity alone to it's devices.so we should not blame the religion but the people who have concealed the truth of the next dispensation from masses.
please read the following with eyes clear of prejudice and meditate and think about it.

It is long but it is woth it,

""A great stumbling block to many, in the way of religious unity, is the difference between the Revelations given by the different Prophets. What is commanded by one is forbidden by another; how then can both be right, how can both be proclaiming the Will of God? Surely the truth is One, and cannot change. Yes, the Absolute Truth is One and cannot change, but the Absolute Truth is infinitely beyond the present range of human understanding, and our conceptions of it must constantly change. Our earlier, imperfect ideas will be by the Grace of God replaced, as time goes on, by more and more adequate conceptions. Bahá’u’lláh says, in a Tablet to some Bahá’ís of Persia:—

O people! Words are revealed according to capacity so that the beginners may make progress. The milk must be given according to measure so that the babe of the world may enter into the Realm of Grandeur and be established in the Court of Unity.

It is milk that strengthens the babe so that it can digest more solid food later on. To say that because one Prophet is right in giving a certain teaching at a certain time, therefore another Prophet must be wrong Who gives a different teaching at a different time, is like saying that because milk is the best food 123 for the newborn babe, therefore, milk and nothing but milk should be the food of the grown man also, and to give any other diet would be wrong! ‘Abdu’l-Bahá(eldest son of Bahaullah) says:

Each divine revelation is divided into two parts. The first part is essential and belongs to the eternal world. It is the exposition of Divine truths and essential principles. It is the expression of the Love of God. This is one in all the religions, unchangeable and immutable.
The second part is not eternal; it deals with practical life, transactions and business, and changes according to the evolution of man and the requirements of the time of each Prophet. For example. … During the Mosaic period the hand of a person was cut off in punishment of a small theft; there was a law of an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth, but as these laws were not expedient in the time of Christ, they were abrogated. Likewise divorce had become so universal that there remained no fixed laws of marriage, therefore His Holiness Christ forbade divorce.""

And the progressive revelation did not stop with Rassole Akram.......
With hope of peace on Earth,
Tahirih

If I may...

It's not really the short attention span of the Internet, it's the short attention span of some... :-)

You haven't read The New Yorker online, have you?

Anonymouse, That article

Anonymouse, That article about poo poo is from a russian exile site and was just copy pasted to iranian.com. I think the comparisons were very BE JAA & appropriate. He is making fun of Americans in the context of their world domination and Americans support of the Iraq war. I loved it. And yes, the commentator was being rude and mean to the poster. If you take all provocative material away from this site, there will be nothing left. Very little. And mental disease is a subject dear to JJ's heart. He posted a link that many people probably laughed at, so why cant Vlad make fun of a mental patient stuck to her bathroom? If writers could delete, then everything would be rosy. I don't know about Bita, she can speak for herself (preferably not drunk and less aashegh) but many people would clean their posts. So many things are sacred. But I believe that we cannot point fingers at individual attacks and clap for wholesale attacks. Kheily do rooee mishe. Vali what the F do I know. Man beram, i'm inventing a new khoresht.

Nazanine it depends.

That article was made just to provoke Americans to say something, if they ever read that article.  It is like posting that blog about burning koran, which is only made to provoke.  Both bull shit.  I think they should have been both deleted.  It serves no purpose.  Besides the one you liked was comparing a real story of a woman stuck to a toilet with real people who got torched in Abu Gharib.  Good comparison?! The real story of that woman is yet to be told, but I can imagine the lifeless life that she must have had not wanting to get out, or her mental case, or financial or whatever. 

Irandokht's comment was not offensive or a personal attack.  Personally I think if people like him or KKK for example, if allowed to be published should be personally attacked, since they have learned nothing.  Useless to debate them.  Khalayegh har che layegh.

Oh and I forgot, I agree with Bahmani that writers should have the right and option to delete comments.  In the case of Bita Rita's article, had she removed the comments her article would have looked out of place.  Would she have done that?  I think writers should be given the option to delete but if they abuse the option, it should be taken away.  That would be something new in this website.

How many times are we to

How many times are we to revisit this issue?

- Why does anyone here care who is responding to articles? Baba jan W H O C A R E S who we are.

- Why should any one user be penalized for some sort of attack if there are no rules about what these attacks are? Is it profanity? Is it R rated content? Is it responses containing names? I mean what the heck are these attacks?

- "Good users" are always complaining about personal attacks but go on to wholesale attacks. Against Iranians (I agree with comment regarding Bita Ria's article), Muslims, Cowards, Anonymous people, Americans etc How come it's worse if someone responds harshly (& childishly) to Hoder than if someone posts a link of mental patients getting naked on the streets of Tehran? The K*s Mashang picture, the doodooli toosh peice and so on could also be considered offensive.

Anonymouse, I actually loved this post //iranian.com/main/blog/kalvoks/why-occupied-usa-forced-eat-shit

I was more offended by Irandokht's comment than the article. Her comment was a personal attack right?

Let's get over it and leave the site as it is. It's already been over filtered already.

Bahmani jan, at the risk of having this deleted, get over it and it was nicer when you weren't writing. Write about something new. JJ tells me I'm mean but Khanum Laleh you call this article brilliant? AKHEH BABA JAN COME ON. Puleez. I'll spin this in the same "friends of JJ rule" box.

 And so conveiently located under the SpahpurUlrich peice.

JJ and his brothers do not

JJ and his brothers do not allow people to talk. In the name of the unsacred they allow the shadows to drop in anytime anywhere.

Just stop the Hajiagha, and your prafane videos and let people talk!
How sacred is that?

Funny Clever Brilliant Brucey :)

As usual BBB you are correct. (OK most of the time).

We need house rules and they need to be posted prominently everywhere it makes sense.  And they need to be belabored.  It's not enough to say it once.  More than anything as a collective we need new and strict standards to abide by in almost every arena, but especially the arena of free speech. That's just too darn "free" for us.

In fact for many posters on this site, it's obvious that there is some cynicism about how "free" speech can really be, which explains the flagrant, foot stomping refusal to sign in and use their real names.  Since they don't believe its really free, they think they have to go underground and that gives them cover to be rude and snipe.

It's not just their fault either. As a culture we've been taught to be so darn polite that many of us think that if you say anything even mildly cheeky, you're suddenly so off center that you may as well go all out and smear, slander, and even destroy a life or reputation while you're at it. Not cool. (Unless of course, they deserve and you have proof;).

The truth is people, you're none of you very annonymous.  Your IP addresses are just a mouse click away for anyone who wants it bad enough, and all the crap you downloaded from the net gives away more information about you than you even know about yourself.  (reseach adware & spysware and the Patriot act).

So I agree with Bruce, stand up and be counted, speak your minds freely. But with responsibility. And yes, its perfectly Ok, to not agree or even call an idiot an idiot with proper examples.  In fact, in life my personal motto is never do or say anything you can't defend.

For instance, "Annonymous" with the beat up car, does a good job of citing his/her sources BTW. I like him. I wish I knew who (s)he was.   Maybe I do?  Are you local to SF?

(We'll smoke him out yet doostan!)

I somewhat Agree

As an unregistered user, I agree with some of your points, especially the unwarranted use of personal attacks (which I will get back to in a minute). But I strongly disagree with you on giving the writer the authority to delete comments, because that will take the notion of free exchange of ideas from this site. I can bet you that if that were to happen, you will only see positive, glowing comments about every piece on every article. This will make the site an extremely boring site that will only please the so called writers.

As far as personal attacks go, some of these articles themselves contain extremely profane and disturbing language that deserve nothing else but an equal response. For example, take a look at Bita Ria's article entitled "why do Iranians have a stick up their ass. Here's the link:

//iranian.com/main/2008/why-do-iranians-h...

That piece was highly offensive to all Iranians and was full of profanities. Now if someone comments on this article with an equally strong language, he / she will be accused of being an obnoxious and hateful person. Some of these writers deserve the comments that they get. What goes around comes around. Are we to give the right to "Bita-Ria" to delete all the unkind comments that are left in response to her nasty piece?

I think that the system that we have now is sufficient. I think that we are mature enough to ignore the silly comments and read the constructive ones. Additionally, I think that the writers should not constantly whine and complain about getting nasty comments. They should be mature as well about this issue and don't have a "dele nazok". This is, after all, the internet!

Exactamundo...

Exactamundo...You tick all the requisite boxes Mr. Bahmani...I only disagree that comments should be moderated by the writers themselves.  Some individual's threshold for criticism is much lower than others and I feel it's a slippery slope by means of which censorship could emerge as the norm in lieu of the exception.  Only those posts which exclaim profanity, racist slurs and the like should be erased... Apart from that, everything and everyone should pretty much be up for grabs...I of course prefer courtesy, politeness and civility, but we shouldn't muzzle individuals who are unable to live by such a code of conduct...Perhaps cordiality will engender cordiality...We can only hope!!! Best, Eskandar. 

Bahmani you are RUNG!!

Just kidding! hehe :-) but "we can all agree"? never, ever!

Anyway, I think we have to consider that this is still a small website compared to larger "American" websites that we see.  It focuses on a select group of people - Iranians.  So after going back and forth, shol kon and seft kon, I think we should shol kon the comment policy.  It has reduced the comments significantly and while I thought we should go for quality not quantity, I don't agree with myself anymore after seeing the "quality" comments which are same as before.  There were many anonymous comments that are no longer here and they were made by ordinary Iranians who no longer feel the impulse to say something. We went from 2 or 3 comments a minute to 2 or 3 comments every couple of hours or more.

I also think some articles or blogs like this one or this one should be deleted.  Forget if they were news, what if someone wants to use it to simply provoke a group of people?  These and other similar vicious and personal attacks should be blocked, not a one z or two z comments which may or may not be offensive.  The offensive ones scream OFFENSIVE.  By the way are you one of the Deleters?

One last question.  We've read that you're going to be the MC for the benefit concert and are going to roast JJ.  Are you going to have a blog and solicit ideas or comments to roast him?! I had couple of ideas like sumo wrestling outfits so people can sumo wrestle with him or another idea of dropping him in a pool by hitting the bulls eye with a ball.  Need more ideas?!