LEGTIMACY

Ari

You may be right about the ending of the article. The writer might have chosen his words poorly there (though one can argue that a writer's job is to challenge the commonplace and "Green is good" is as commonplace these days as "Sky is blue"!). In any event, I don't think we should overemphasize that particular part. The point of the article, in my opinion, is sound. Let's focus on that.   

Azmast

تا این همت نباشد هیچ جنبش سبز و سرخی مشروعیت اخلاقی نمی‌یابد

The goals of the Green movement are legitimate regardless of the behavior of the men and women attempting to gain its leadership. The writer may correct the mis-match between the argument and its conclusion, and article will stand as a responsible exercize of free speech.

Back to your take on the article. Yes, Ganji was in error dismissing the questioner as a liar without proof (I'm assuming the exchange has been quoted accurately).

Excellent!

The author doesn't strike me as being anti-green movement. His point is that we should be smart and pay attention to the way our leaders conduct themselves in their daily affairs. I think that is an excellent point. Everybody can say "thou shalt not kill". Saying it is easy. What matters is practicing it! 

Iranians must heed leader's

Iranians must heed leader's guidelines: Rafsanjani

//www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSTRE57L1KG20090822

I thanked you earlier on

I thanked you earlier on another thread and I'm thanking you again here for reading my post. Your feedback are always original and poignant.

Dear V.

The second iteration is much clearer.  You make sense.  I am glad you made this distinction (the reformers and the people).  It is historic, I think on IC.   I was reading a lot of coy comments, blurring the two, Dabashi's article was cause for concern too.   Thanks again, it looks like I am thanking you an awful lot lately :-).

It looks like we need

It looks like we need an impartial  politician, not a revolutionary leader, at this point to navigate these uncharterred terretories. One who can secure and negotiate the interest of both sides (i.e. the reformers and the people) in a fair and honest manner.

I don't see any other way to overcome this impass. Am I  making sense, probably not!

Reading Dabashi's article,

"Iran is self-destructing" (posted below) and some other comments around the IC site I am beginning to feel very uncomfortable.   I think we may be being lead down the garden path once again.   

Thanks Vildemose for the post. 

The Green Elephant in the Room!

"There is no doubt that the future of the Iranian economy is one of the key issues in what is presented as a dispute over the outcome of last June's presidential election.

However, the dispute is not between partisans of state control and free-marketers.

Both Ahmadinejad and Mousavi have promised to transfer large chunks of the economy to the private sector. The difference between them is over who should benefit from such a transfer.

Mousavi, backed by former President Hashemi-Rafsanjani, reputed to be the wealthiest man in Iran, wants the transfer to benefit the long-established network of businessmen-cum-mullahs and their traditional bazaar partners. That would be the continuation of a policy initiated by former President Muhammad Khatami at the start of the privatization process in 2004.

Ahmadinejad is determined to fight the mullah-bazaar business coalition, which he labels "the black Mafia", and has threatened to bring "the ring-leaders" to justice on charges of corruption.

However, that does not mean that Ahmadinejad wants to create a genuine private sector or to give the masses of the poor a fairer share of national income.

He wants state enterprises to go to a new business Mafia consisting of senior officers in the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Crops (IRGC) and their business partners."

//www.asharq-e.com/news.asp?section=2&id=17836

Siavash31

Why you are talking to insignificants? this is our space!

Iran is

Iran is self-destructing!

//weekly.ahram.org.eg/2009/960/focus.htm

Ari Siletz

So you suggest people don't ask questions? The media inside/outside
isn't talking about it and we shouldn't talk about it? Is it an
affordable option for Iranians, a weapon to hold over our heads to get
used to it and to give up! Herd mentality that taken to extremes can be fatal for any nation.

Once again the dellusional

Once again the dellusional L.A style "opposition" is proving how disconnected it is from Iran's grassroots.  You people can sit here all you want and keep making all these false and absurd accusations about Mousavi. You can desparately try to assassinate his character in the hope hijacking the green movement. You can be Shariatmadari's little helpers in the West and try to destroy the leaders of the movement. 

I just wish you could realize how insignificant you are compared to the massive ocean of the people in Iran who love Mousavi with all their heart and consider him as the leader of their movement. In this game, you will be the losers not Mousavi.

seltzer

Ari Siletz

If the north pole and the south pole are melting, does that mean the earth has bipolar disorder? Why do you expect people to not ask questions or make statments about the moral legitmacy of the Green M? What you have noted here is in line with your mispresentation of the article 19 of UN and the Iranian flag!

Life is short. Drink the good wine! 

take your responsabilitty

Waiting for an Amir Kabir to appear is like waiting for godot. The best excuse to wash out your hands off from your responsibilities.

This is not a seasonal election time, looking for a charismatic politician with no 'weak points' in his or her past to lead your party. It's time to get our country back, get our modern Iran up and running again, doing what is right to do.

Don't look any further. Look for Amir Kabir inside you. 

BRAVO

I agree with Ari Siletz 100%

Bait and switch conclusion

تا این همت نباشد هیچ جنبش سبز و سرخی مشروعیت اخلاقی نمی‌یابد

The fact that the Green movement has not yet found a leader of Mandela's stature does not make it an illegitimate quest. The Greens want freedom of press, gender equality, human rights. Whether the character of the Green leaders personify those goals is a reasonable question, but questioning the moral legitimacy of the Green movement is not.

انقلابی که

انقلابی که برای ماندن از دست زدن به هیچ جنایتی رویگردان نیست انقلاب نیست: ارتجاع است.  

How do we explain this to religious Fundamentalists like the Basij?

Excellent and honest. If we

Excellent and honest. If we can't be honest with ourselves, no movement, green or otherwise will change anything in Iran.

Only A Friend Dares To Say...

I wish you could've supported your excellent point, by double-checking your spelling and through a better style.

.

.

Naanaam's Article

Thank you. Some of your comments are classic. Please write more.

گل گفتی و درٌ سفتی

"همت بلند، خیشتن‌داری، رواداری، گذشت و صداقت. تا این‌ها نباشد هیچ "جوانه‌ی ارجمندی" از هیچ جای هیچ رهبری نمی‌روید! باید به هوش بود و این ویژگی‌های فردی را وارد فرهنگ سیاسی کرد و از آن‌ها سنجه ساخت. گفتم، مشروعیت "سیاسی در وهله‌ی اول مشروعیتی اخلاقی‌ست و اخلاق حیطه‌ی کلی‌گویی‌های نظری نیست: حیطه‌ی رفتارهای فردی‌ست

احترام وجدان جمعی  بخشی از ایرانیان به رهبرانی چون کریم خان، امیر کبیر، مصدق  و از ایندست بیخود نیست.