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David ET: Interesting Analysis of Siamack's article

Interesting. I should admit I never thought that way. This hypothesis, if it is proven to be true, could explain many things;

It explains why Siamack is against the green revolution. It explains why he disassotiates NEDA from the green movement. It explains why Siamack considers NEDA, and to the same order himself, smart, and the rest of people who disagree with him, dumb.  Finally, it explains why Siamack does not classify NEDA as a martyr.

There is only one mystery that remains unsolved; why does Siamack place an exclamation mark at the end of his opening statement?

"Neda was no Martyr!"

What is Siamack astonished about? His own view and opinion!, may be?

Another thing, Neda was symbolically, not arbitrarily murdered.

She was chosen because she incarated (symbolized, represented) everything the hardliners hate and fear: beauty, freshness, feminine sexuality. And the fact that she wasn't marching made her all the more symbolically appealing, BECAUSE she was obviously innocent of any violence, real or potential. So, pacifism as well. She symbolized those things for the person who killed her, and he shot her in the heart to symbolize that fact. He didn't know it would appear on prime time tv all over the world but that changes nothing.

So those who call her a symbol do so as an intelligent choice. And those who call her a 'martyr', if they realize and accept the symbolic relationship to the Karbala tradition also make an intelligent choice.

Anyone who rejects this also makes an intelligent choice, except if they seriously think that it is more intelligent than anyone else's.

Iran e-abad

basically yes!

He starts good in the 1st half and then in the 2nd half , he too uses Neda , to prove his own views and in order to justify his own lack of participation and belief , Neda should have been just been passing by , just like he has been! He too becomes Neda and Neda becomes him. He even talks on her behalf. At conclusion: "Neda (or Siamack ) was too smart to be one of you."  Just as Maryam Rajavi did (look at how she dressed and posed to look like her //cache.daylife.com/imageserve/05mLc65e8Y2sc/610x.jpg

), just like Reza P....., just like..., and....

killing her again and again, each for own agendas

David ET : Does Siamak use NEDA as a Commodity?

David,

I am not sure if I understand your views. I skipped the early morning
coffee and I am sure this has something to do with my inability to
digest your statement.

You wrote

"Some of those who opposed voting
wholeheartedly , instead of accepting that they were wrong and it was a
good strategy which resulted in the weakness of the regime, Khamenei
and Ahmadinejad , in order to justify their persistence have to
undermine anything and anyone who supports this movement as useless or
they would be contradicting themselves."

it seems like you are suggesting that Siamak is representative of
people who boycotted the election. In hindsight of the election results and protests, they justify their
passiveness through denouncing the green movement and portraying NEDA
as an individual who disassociated herself from the green movement. In another word, Siamak, and in the same order those who endorse Siamak's  views,  are using NEDA  as a commodity to justify lack of participation in the election. Is this the message you are conveying?

You brought it up Rosie

 so I might as well say what I have seen.

Some of those who opposed voting wholeheartedly , instead of accepting that they were wrong and it was a good strategy which resulted in the weakness of the regime, Khamenei and Ahmadinejad , in order to justify their persistence have to undermine anything and anyone who supports this movement as useless or they would be contradicting themselves.

Martyr/symbol/semantics...........the issue is largely irrelevan

I wanted to blog on this weeks ago. Kaveh is right. Neda is strictly speaking lingusitically most properly referred to as a symbol. But those who are profoundly influenced, consciously or subconsciously, by Shiism (up to some of the most ardent secularists, apparenty including Mr. Javid himself) will call her a 'martyr' because to them she SYMBOLIZES a national martyrdom at a modern Karbala which the people are undergong (two months, thirty years, not the point). So it's really six of one and a half dozen of the other, if you think about it, depending who chooses the word.

My only concern is that these secularists, these ardent believers in 'Nothing is Sacrediism', wiho have the common post-Revolution Iranian 'allergy' not only to religion in general (and Islam in particular) but even to spirituality as a concept, in using the word 'martyr' without careful scrutiny and reflection, bely a deep, unhealthy schism between conscious and subconscious mind. Once scrutinized, whichever word is chosen is legitimate.

  _____________________

My problem with the critique of 'martyr' in the ARTICLE is different. It seems to claim that Iran has become such a bucket of shit over the past thirty years that any Iranians, from one to millions, who believe that one person CAN symbolize the struggle of Iran in a POSITIVE way even through a BRUTAL murder, as a cohesive unifying force is stupid.

Because it is only those who are cynical about the future of Iran who are smart. Cynical to the point of having carte blanche to end their articles telling others point blank how stupid they are.  (Which is FINE by me btw, that he ended that way...I just don't AGREE).

From which place ALL the other points in the article, which have their validity of course (I MEANT it when I said let's assume Siamack is right...) come. So when Siamack can show me (and others interested) that it is smart to be cyncial and hopeless, and stupid to choose symbols to keep faith in a better future, then I feel we can debateto what extent MKO is selling Neda coffee mugs at profit to smuggle weapons back into Ashraf.

______________________________

But it probably won't happen. Because Sia probably won't answer one goddam thing on this thread, not an individual post and not the thread as a whole. After all, he didn't in his last, equally 'controversial' article on the Greens, why should he now?

And I MEAN it, Sia, why SHOULD you? You're right. It IS a HOPELESS black pit. And that's exactly WHY people need the symbols. Because the ONLY thing that can triumph over hopelessness is hope. And it CAN. And it WILL.

So tnank you, Sia, once again, for reminding us to create and cherish our symbols to keep hope. AND THROUGH THAT HOPE EFFECT REAL CHANGE IN THE WORLD. That's your job, isn't it? That's what artists DO, don't they?. They shed light on profound truths in original, unexpected and personal ways which are not beholden unto the rules of rational discourse. Nor is the artist necessarily consciously aware of the deeper meanings.

Just kidding, Sia. Or not. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

unknown poet

To see both blended in one flood,

The mothers’ milk, the children’s blood,

Make me doubt if heaven will gather

Roses hence, or lilies rather.

-YT 

Spot on!

only positive thing about this is that sadly this symbol/commodity is tearing at the heart-strings of people around the globe, highlighting the situation in Iran.

Uncanny.I had joined "one law for all, no Shariah law in britain" and next thing I knew I got an emotionally blackmailing email about Neda in order for me to join demonstrations with the Communist Workers Party of Iran! With a whole list of commielinks.

How underhand is that?

Only thing is though, Siamack, what if she is considered a martyr? It's not exactly a preferable description...

Kaveh Jan

Loss of a young life like her, along with 1000's upon 1000's who have perished in the hands of these Jallads is a monumental tragedy. Whether we want to call them Neda, Sohrab, Zahra or simply a martyr does not lessen the pain, not only to their immediate family, but to their extended family which is Iran.

What angers me about this article, is the attempt to assign an adjective to these tragedies.  What is there to argue whether they should be called martyr, killed, murdered, shot, stabbed or died?

What difference does it make to the dead? to their family? to the entire humanity if they are called martyr or any other adjective? Why even debate on such an issue? What difference does it make in the whole scheme of the things whether their death FITS the definition of the word according to the dictionaries?

Besides, you should know me well enough not to be saying that I am thrashing the author. I have absolutely nothing against the gentleman. It is his writing that nauseates me. He himself is guilty of the same thing he is accusing others .

-YT 

Multipal personality disorder......lol

Personaly I dig your humor and I think it is a great sarcastic name.

But I have a question of you and Mr. Dehkhoda. Since he is R.I.P and you are advocating him on here yhen I am afraid you are to answer to that question:

What do you call a person that does die(or get killed) for the cause that is selfless and it is for a cause other than personal like your country minus the God(khoda)?

Oh by the way, name one person that actually died for God, in the entire known human history.

Thank you, I still like your name.

What is Neda? Let us assume that Sia is right

because Sia is ALWAYS right. And Sia cannot be challenged. because Sia is Challenge itself and Challenge cannot be challenged, can you, Sia?

So if Neda was no martyr, then what was Neda? Or, better said, what IS Neda?  Or who is Neda?  Or.why is Neda?  Or...where is Neda?

On a blog concurrent to this article a young woman, I believe in Mumbai, is trying to tell us what she thinks Neda is. She's very upset in her blog, so it's helpful to read up the thread a bit too, especially the posts from her (her uncle), if you find it off-putting. And also I give the link directly to youtube in case you can't watch the video full screen otherwise, which I couldn't.  It can't be understood or appreciated unless it's on full screen.

Oh yeah, and also maybe a quick read of my whole post about the full screen video. It's not long. (For once).

------------------

Sedaa, sedaa

tanhaa sedaa ast keh mimoonad.

                                       -forough

_____________________

//iranian.com/main/node/76909 .

(Sia, Khaaneh siah nist). 

Thank you, Benyamin..

Thank you, Benjamin, for your great post! It is just awesome!

Thank you, Irandokht and Ramintork, for the nice comments!

All of you have compassions!

May Neda rest in peace!

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPo9fp_98Ik

Siamack Baniameri!!!

it is hard to comment on your "little" blog. I don`t know to comment about your name or the way you spelled it or perhaps the name that has either been given to you or you have chosen since it just "doesn`t" go with your last name!

But I guess we pass by the cosmetics and go to the core. You are claiming that Neda didnot want any of this and that she was there at a wrong time and wrong place? My question is then why was she there? if her attitude was giving a "bilakh" then why even stop by for a short time? why not give the "bilahk" as she pass by the all of the commotions? Siamack(I can`t get used to spelling of your name) you seem to know alot about what she thought and believed but I am afraid your research is just as good as your spelling(specially about your name) since he fiance told BBC just a few days before she take a bullet in her heart she told her friends "she is ready to take a bullet for Iran right in her heart" so as you see she was ready to die for her country and so were "all" of those people that were demonstrating that day. she may never asked for it or didn`t know where and when she "may" get killed, but in her "heart" she was truly ready.

As it comes about all political groups and people with all kinds of stripes that are "cashing in" as you stated, I believe we all are full of emotions and we can`t just pass by this with no reaction some thought of commmomerating her by making a bracelet the color should be green since it is the color of freedom now it took the world because there are many people believe in green but may not believe in the same ideology as others. my point is he death had a profound meaning to everone in a different way, some may have been even killed in her name or just by shouting her name(remember Ahmad Batebi his only crime was holding his buddy`s bloody shirt).

To sit outside the circle and do nothing is no solution, she died indeed for her country as she stated a few days before that. By the way, she didn`t vote and didn`t believe in IRI and perhaps if she was alive todayt she would still be the same, not voting for IRI and no believeing in IRI. But I gaurantee you that you  would find her in the streets of Tehran alongside with the protesters because she believed in the people of Iran. Her death is important because it symbolizes innocence of iranian people and specialy women and how easy their lives are perrishable by the IRI so standing up for her should not and must not be criticized. she was a woman who got perrished by a government that didn`t/doesn`t recognize her rights.

Dear Gitdoun

Gitdoun,

The progression of though is achieved as a result of exchanging views
in a logical way. Upon reading Siamak's article, people have spoken in
favor or against his position. Since Siamak had referred to the
definition of Martyr in his article, it is natural for readers to
remind Siamak about the definition of Martyr that they know. Some
people talked about the political definition, some talked about the phylosophical  definition and some the linguistic definition. There is
nothing wrong with that. Those who make the effort to provide a new
meaning or perspective deserve a recognition, not humiliation. We had
enough of humiliation in Siamak's article. Referencing to a dictionary
is a scientific way of analyzing the terminology. 

Regarding to Siamak's paper, it is not just about how he said it.It is certainly more than that. It is what he said  that has
caused me and some other people this sadness. Please refer to my previous
posting. 

Dear Gitdoun

Not everybody has made the attempt to check the dictionary, but some of us had a point to make too, if you don't mind that is.

IRANdokht

Captain A:

I congratulate you on jumping on the band wagon[as you put it] by using Neda's death to gain readers for this pathetic garbage called article. 

Ah, the Irony.

more defintions plz Webster? Oxford? American Heritage ??

is it me or is everyone engaging in Talmudic analysis on the word "martyr" from every dictionary ever made ?? some people feel this murdered woman was a martyr others do not and that's perfectly fine but i think the manner in which siamack addressed this issue could have been more sensitive and less inflammatory.

Ramintork

Clearly this is an emotionally charged topic, and understandably so.

But there are still many things that are unknown that preclude Neda being called a martyr. And I'm not talking about something as inconsequential as her food preferences.

When she was a living breathing soul, full of life and her future ahead of her, to the rest of the world she was just another one of 70 million Iranians.

Then, faster than the time it took for that rifle bullet to end all of her dreams and hopes, she is made into something that we really truly don't know if she wanted for herself. And we have no right to thrust that upon her and her memory without her consent.

Yes what happened to her enrages me too. It enrages me that her life was taken away in such a violent manner by some coward because his masters fear their exposure to the world for the frauds they truly are.

But, I'm also enraged by how we as a society, as a culture, as a people, permitted the creation of an atmosphere and an environment that allowed this to ever happen in the first place. Here we are, supposedly educated and enlightened people who know better, yet we have let this go on and on for 30 lousy, stinking, rotten years.

That's why I don't call her a martyr. She didn't give her life to a cause.

She was slaughtered because of our apathy. And I hope she can forgive us.

Dear Kaveh

Here you are relating to a public tool called the internet and amongst online people/friends who you have never met you are being passionate about a subject, yet questioning the sincerity of an impact of a mass media Phenomenon.

We make our own reality, so if we live in a culture of mass media where the emotion and event can change your life, it can be as real as losing a loved one.

Only last week I was fortunate enough to meet JJ and a few other Iranian .comers for the first time in London and the warmth that I felt after the accumulations of similar hopes made me feel more comfortable than being with family.

I meantioned mass media, but people in Ireland would riot under the influence of a poem by W.B. by Yeats without TV or Radio so as humans how we project our emotions seem mad but at the same time real.

As someone who did write a Neda poem and drew cartoons and got inspired to do Art just on the back of that single video I can sincerely say that I did not need to know if Neda prefered Chelo Kabab to Ghormeh Sabzi, the fact that she was a young woman, who studied philosophy, had studied music and died in a horrible way for asking for her basic rights, the fact that she was Iranian, so young and her death so tragic, or the shock of seeing those lovely eyes turn and blood tears come from her eye it was enough to make us enraged.

She is a symbol, for the aspirations of many in a nation who once had lost hope.

Analysed rationally when you say things like I love Iran, or I love my people we are not being rational, but in this case the hell with being rational, those emotions seem real and that is good enough for me!

I am a de facto atheist yet for the reason above I leave those who have faith in peace!

Dictionary Definition of martyr:

A person who is put to death or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause: a martyr to the cause of social justice.

This does not mean that the person aspires to die but be willing, and then die in the event.

Neda fits that definition, the fact that others try to use her name does not change that original sentiment.

Dear Siamack

I am not clear why you would write about the green movement and the martyrs with such negative tone. It's a shame really.

You're a great writer and always admired by many. For some reason you decided to take the emotional road and made a bad turn somewhere. As you see Martyr also means victim, an unfortunate person who suffers some adverse circumstance.

martyr - one who suffers for the sake of principle

sufferer

shaheed - Arabic term for holy martyrs;
victim - an unfortunate person who suffers from some adverse circumstance

Siamack jan

What's with putting down everyone and their uncles? No Reza Pahlavi, no MKO, no Green movement and finally to make it clear: no IRI either.

Who is going to oppose IRI if none of these guys would do? should we keep waiting for another uprising maybe another 30-40-50 years that would be more to your liking? 

The green is what we have that's solid and it's grassroots and it's working. These young martyrs are a reminder for all to unite against the enemy who had no problem killing the innocents. 

Please bilaakhetoon ro ghalaaf konid and join the people who are fighting for their freedom. If not, at least please don't undermine their efforts.

I am also sorry to see so many people here  associate "martyr" only with islam. There have been many martyrs throughout the world history. Islam did not invent martyrdom.

IRANdokht

capt_ayhab, I agree with you....

It saddens me that some people have the leisure of arguing about Neda does not qualify to be a martyr 'cause she does not fit the definition! It also saddens me that they don't let this poor lady rest in peace and they cheapen her death! I think we should focus on why this tragedy occurred instead of debating about martyrdom here. The bottom line is that nothing can take away the pain of Neda's mom, absolutely nothing! I don't think Neda's mom wanted her daughter to be a martyr or become famous, she just wanted her daughter alive and have the chance, like all of us, to grow up and grow old. Until this day, I have not heard why Neda was killed and who killed her? OJ Simpson has a betther theory for his wife's death than IRI for Neda's death. IRI has at least 3 possible theories: oh, a foreign bullet killed Neda; or CIA killed Neda; or BBC killed Neda, so they could record her death...blah, blah, blan....IRI can't even get their lie straight!

    I hope we show respect to the people who got killed during protests and we should not forget them:

//tehran.stanford.edu/list/

Yolanda

Captain, you're missing the point

While you are trashing the writer of this blog for "using the death of an innocent young woman" like this, I think you should have equal if not greater contempt for those who have used and continue to use this young woman's death.

No one is denying the tragedy of her murder. But Mr. Baniameri's contempt for those who are using her murder in a way that is tasteless to say the least is well-founded.

Look at the endless streams of tributes and poems and songs about her, dedicated to her, inspired by her, and so on. I mean, seriously...these people wouldn't know her if they stepped on her toes on a crowded sidewalk! And they are talking about her as if she was a member of their immediate family!

The assessment made in this blog is harsh, but it's true. And it's a long overdue slap in the face for those who devote an inordinate amount of energy romanticizing the deaths of people they never knew and never gave a second thought to while they were alive.

shaayad keh

To shaayad keh,

In the past, people have already tried to be
controversial by swimming against the flow. "Hatam-e-Taee's" brother
was one of them. Has it ever occured to you why he is not as famous as 
"Hatam-e-Taee"?

There is one thing that Siamak believes in
certain terminology for martyrdom. Fine. He is entitled to his opinion.
However what is bothering me personally is that he is so self righteous
about his opinion that he calls on people who disagree with his opinion
to be ASHAMED for what they believe in.

I will be ashamed of
myself if I have zero tolerance for opposite opinions. I will be
ashamed of myself if I resort to any language other than respect,
logic  and mutual understanding when I share my opinions with the rest
of people.

But the problems do not stop there. Siamak talks on
behalf of Neda Soltan as Neda left her will with Siamak right before
she died, or as if he could see the other side of coin by being in
touch with NEDA after her death. Lets review his writing

"I promise you that she would go home with a BIG bilaakh in the air for the green movement".

Don't ask me why he is sure, he is just sure. 

There is onething for sure that Siamak is out of touch with the 
Iranian people. In Siamak's eyes,  those who form the green chain in
france to support the Iranian freedom are Mousavi's supporters. In
Siamak's eyes, the people who wear green and shout for freedom,
independence and Iranian Republic in the streets of Tehran are
supporters of Karrubi, or Reza pahlavi. And since Siamak does not like
Karroubi, Mousavi and Reza Pahlavi, the hell with all green movement.
This is the message that Siamak is conveying to us.

Why don't we
just take two second of our time and listen to what Neda's mother, Mrs.
Hajar Rostami Motlagh, has to say about Karroubi;

//news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/video_and_audio/8176029...

In response to a reporter who asks about Karroubi's visit to Ms. Rostami Motlagh house, she says

[He(Karroubi)
was very supportive and I found it very comforting.He (Karroubi) said
she was innocent, she was a Martyr and her killer needs to be
persecuted and punished].

Has it ever occured to you why she is
quoting Karrubi with such a pride and why she is emphasizing on the
fact that Karrubi considers her a Martyr?

I still don't know what
has trigerred Siamak to write an article with such an irrational (for
lack of better word) tone. I very much like to hear what Siamak has to
say in response to all of the comments that he has received here.

Peace with all of you, my apology if my tone was not calm. I can only say I am deeply saddened by Siamak's article.

garbage

Mr. Siamack Baniameri states, ever so contemptuously[Neda Agha Soltan became a commodity that just could not be ignored.]

Additionally he, ever so arrogantly presents definition of a martyr, tying to disguise his contempt for almost everyone, from the street demonstrators who put their lives on line by standing up to a brutal regime, to marketeer named Reza Aslan and above all to people of Iran.

Mr. Baniameri, I would have rather you spew your hatred for everyone linked to this movement by pissing on the movement itself rather than so shamelessly portraying Neda Agha Soltan as a commodity, which you yourself ever so shamelessly used to demonstrate your callousness and your agenda, which is non other than absolute insensitivity toward who were killed.

Sir, No one who died in the hands of regime jallads WANTED TO DIE, they were just yearning for freedom and democracy, however small and insignificant that it might have been, as you noted.

I congratulate you on jumping on the band wagon[as you put it] by using Neda's death to gain readers for this pathetic garbage called article. 

Shame on you for using  death of an innocent young woman like this. You sir are worse than every single person you named in this piece of crap called an article who have used her death to gain political points, to sell flags, to sell books and to sell green wrist bands.

-YT 

BTW, does anybody know.....

 that  How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? If not, you can refer to Wikipedia for the answer.

Martyr or shahid is a religious term that has been dragged into politics. It is not a scientific term however. Political and religious groups use it to discredit their opponents and to glorify their own victims. Why are all trying to convince each other to agree on the definition of such a generic word? Can we agree that some people think Neda is their martyr and so believe she is not their martyr? Who actually is a martyr depends on what side of the issue you are. for example a martyr of Taleban is a terrorist to the opposition.

I personally am in the camp that believes or at least like to count her a martyr of this movement, but at the same time, I have respect for Siamak Baniameri who challenged my thinking by publishing his mind. I think he has gone too far by his assumptions on who Neda is and what she would do all over again if she was alive. His assumptions are tasteless and ugly, but he swam against the flow and published something as controversy as this issue to display or challenge something. Why don't we see that?

Peace,

 Shaayad Keh

Kaveh Nouraee,

.

You asked a martyr?  I say based on what DEFINITION?  (I'm not shouting, I'm emphasizing)  According to SB's self-serving definition she was not a martyr, but I beg you to show me where it is that the word martyr is defined the way he has these two specific words in quotation marks, "willingly" and "freely", and then I’ll shut up.

According to the way Islamic Republic of Iran defines martyr, which I do not have access to it now but there is a way that they define the word so the families of those who their sons and daughters have be martyred get governmental aid, no she was not a martyr.

According to the way the word ‘martyr’ is MOSTLY defined in most English-to-English dictionaries, no she was not a martyr.

According to the way the word ‘shahid’ is MOSTLY defined in loghatnameh dehkhoda, which I copy and pasted it in my previous comment,  no she was not a martyr.  However, at the very end of  Dehkhoda’s definitions of the word ‘shahid’ where it says "killed innocently", yes she was a martyr.  And that is the one that MOST people seem to have chosen to define her death, that an innocent life was lost in front our eyes so senselessly.

Having said that, my personal opinion abut martyrdom is that we should move away from any culture that promotes it.  We need to get into our heads that every life is precious and needs to be respected with dignity (I know it‘s very idealistic).

MPD

With all respect, taking Neda and her murder as a rallying call for the common goal of freedom makes her a symbol, and a very relevant and extremely powerful one.

But a martyr?

Yes, she willingly went out that day to ensure her voice was heard, as did many others.

But did she go out with the objective or the idea that "if this kills me then so be it"..? She went out willingly, she was going to protest willingly, but did she die willingly? I doubt it highly.

The word martyr is being used recklessly, and in Neda's case, it's being used in what I think is a very dirty way. I think it's disrespectful to Neda and her family and to her memory to compare her to someone who willingly goes out and risks their life for a noble cause. It makes a great story and it feeds from people's emotions, but who is anyone to assume that she martyred herself for the cause? We never heard from her directly that day.

Yes we should remember her, and make sure that we never forget. But there are many others too who fall in the same category.

This article is despicable

.

This article is despicable because Siamack Baniameri (SB) seems to be nauseated by Mousavi, Karoubi, Khatami, Pahlavi, MKO, and Green Movement; however he is contemptuous towards the people who consider Neda a martyr, "Those who regard Neda as a martyr should be ashamed of themselves."  And to rub it in some more, SB ends his article by saying, "She was too smart to be one of you."  Well, millions of people have taken her, and her tragic death, to be the rallying call for their common goal, which is freedom.

This article is despicable because it makes mockery of the people, "...what amazes me more are those who still believe in these clowns."  These people are on the march and day by day they put their lives on the line to break free of this oppressing regime, and SB makes a mockery of them.

This article is despicable because SB makes mockery of how people grief for the dead, "...he mentioned Neda's name while weeping like a little girl...", and SB even remembers his OWN cousin considering Neda to be the martyr of the Iranian freedom as though his own cousin is supposed to blindly mimic how he sees the world.

This article is despicable because the language used in it in regard to senseless death of a person is incomprehensible, "Neda just happened to get the shaft in the wrong end."

This article is despicable because SB has a grievance with the opposition groups mentioned in his article, but he brings Nada's senseless death into this argument inappropriately and expects some people to agree with him, which I'm sure some people will, but as shown by the comments here majority of the people who have chosen to post comments here are in agreement that the way SB went about doing it is the wrong way.

This article is despicable because I consulted several different dictionaries and stopped looking once the definition started repeating the same type of things, which is not the way SB defines the word martyr.  According to SB, "Martyr by definition is a person who willingly and freely sacrifices her life for a cause that she passionately believes in.", however I have not found a single dictionary that uses those two specific words, willingly and freely, anywhere.  But, SB puts those two words in quotation marks as if they are the defining words for martyr.  If there is a dictionary anywhere that uses those two specific words I'd like to know what it is.

Iran e abad

If you want to be enraged by someone's comment, the choice is entirely yours. There is no one forcing you to feel any particular way about any topic.

But it must be said that I find you an extremely hypocritical individual. You have spent an inordinate amount of time admonishing people to refrain from using language that you described as "violent", "insulting", yet you had the audacity to suggest that Mr. Baniameri may have written his original post under the influence of alcohol, or under the stress of breaking up with a girlfriend.

Obviously it is the same sense of entitlement that led you to make your judgmental hypotheses led you to believe that you are morally qualified to flag me.

If you sincerely wish for a "healthy conversation", don't place conditions upon others.

Mr. Baniameri is absolutely right in his assertion that Neda was not a martyr. The poor girl is a murder victim. A cold-blooded murder carried out at the hands of the cowardly Basij, the IR's pit bulls. Another victim in a list that stretches back to even before the 1979 coup.

And why was she murdered? Because just like you are trying to do here on this website, Iran e abad, the IR wanted to shut her up.

She didn't die for any cause. There is no real clarity of what this "cause" is supposed to be.

Is it a genuinely transparent electoral process?

Is it social and political reform?

Is it Moussavi? Is it Karroubi?

Is it regime change?

By calling Neda a martyr, it somehow manages to assuage the guilt that should be shared by all those who allowed the past 30 years to go by with yet more excuses, more justification, more enabling, and more thoughts of "we have to be patient...change will come".

the disconnect of this article

is the last two sentences. 

"THOSE who still believe" and "those who regard" are not the same THOSE.

Maybe that's why some of siamack's critics are so pissed off. "But but but I never liked Karoubi and Mousavi! I just love Neda. Don't lump me Siamack."

Get over yourselves.