REVOLUTION

not just bogus, "TOTALLY BOGUS"

please do not misquote me, Pahlevan.

I fail to see why a Google book based on surveys from 2003 is any more credible than USDA data from 2008. You still have no explanation are now resorting to complete lies to get your way.

Please explain to me what the hell you are talking about. If you can't resolve this, there is no doubt you are lying.

You say:

UK Home Office: Economy ("Country Assessment - October 2002") and CIA factbook. And your own LINK confirms my numbers and more. The key word here is "Independence" ... IRI managed to increase the total importation of wheat by ten fold in 20 years, according to your own link,

This is my own link.

//www.indexmundi.com/iran/agriculture/wheat.h...

Anyone looking at this can see that importation has grown, but population and production have also grown.

You say that importation has increased "10 fold in 20 years". you are being dishonest! Look at the numbers, you are picking two years of anomolies and comparing them. 1978 versus 1998. In 1998, there was a severe draught, the most severe in decades. In 1978, the lack of importation was probably due to political reasons and political chaos not lack of need. As you can see the total supply (imports+productoin) went down in 1978, that means people didn't get as much as they had the previous year. But you fail to mention this. You fail to mention that in 2005 Iran had less import and multiple times more production than in 1978.

If I wanted to be dishonest and deceptive like you I could say this and I would be right:

Between 1969 and 1976 Pahlavi regime increased wheat imports 1500 fold!

Are you stupid or do you think we are stupid? Which is it? Who is being a propagandist now my friend?

I go to Iran often too. I also grew up there. I know enough about it to know that most people in it, are way smarter and less dogmatic than you. Just like I said, you don't know crap! You are just trying to repeat some basic anti-Iran propaganda because someone else repeated it. I have exposed your dishonest methods right here for all to see.

Again, anyone who doubts me, can look at the numbers themselves.

//www.indexmundi.com/iran/agriculture/wheat.h...

Now I'm done wasting time with you. You can go back to enjoying the weather in Canada.

Ashamed of it yourself Q?

Is that why you are avoiding an answer?

Ask and ye shall receive...

Zion, why are you so good to me? When I merely prayed

By the way, I hope your last few posts are not repeated attempts in trying to "engage" me or anything, right? I know there's another word you can use to avoid any hypocrisy. I'll let you fill that in for the sake of the young desciples.

You promptly delivered with:

Q, I am not engaging you, I am asking you a question.

Why are you so good to me?

Forgive my "projections", Zion. I'm of an inferior non-scientific culture, as you have already observed before. Thus, I stupidly thought I could accurately represent your desires by repeating them but I see your stated words are far too modest of a medium to represent your views.

My mistake for thinking something as limiting as "language" can be applied to understand you. You have evolved beyond, and are therefore no longer bound, by basic laws of contradiction. How could I not see this?

"BOGUS"???!!! ... LOL

Q, O god of satire! please answer us, would you?

Come on Q, I am not engaging you, I am asking you a question. What is it you say, where is it you stand? What is it with this projection of your conspiracy theories on me, btw? And are you trying to say you don't consider the West as decadent? Is that it? Speak to us Q. Tell us why you rather live among and pay taxes to "imperialists on demise" than among your heroic third world anti-Imperialist revolutionaries who have all the power in Tehran for some time now? Speak to us, man. If I commend you on your satirical style and great talent for humor, would you answer me then?

Alternative 3

Actually there is a lot more going on in the Bay Area than L.A. in terms of global corporate power, there will be plenty of evidence in due time, eventually the Iranian Clergy should resign to a Vatican-like status in Qom so domestic and international concerns may be guided by less xenophobic attitudes towards Iran's leadership role in the region...there are many Wizard's of Oz in the world, and indeed most conspiratorial paranoia is misinformation, however I believe Iranian values will eventually be rediscovered as something to be preserved not forced.

iso = equal, same, common
poly = many, multiple, more than one
holo = whole, entire, complete
telesis = aim, goal, purpose; deliberate, purposeful utilization of the processes of nature and society to obtain particular goals.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0o6mccnnfU
//www.geocities.com/aryannews/news000016.htm
//www.karavans.com/tapeworm.html //www.youtube.com/watch?v=sPQViNNOAkw //www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgYE75gkzkM //www.twine.com

Once again, you have out-cultured me, Zion, what can I say?

I think it is fair to guess you view America, Israel and the West in general to be in a decadent state.

Dear Zion, as I suspected you already knew the answer and now you are sharing it. No doubt this is because of the Jewish culture that you once claimed is more scientific and rational. Sorry I just didn't want to contradict the "truth" by stating my own opinion. So now you have you answer that you have always had. You're right. I consider Israel a "decedant" state. That's the word I always use too! Very perceptive.

We all understand you occupy a higher plane of existance. One that absolves you from any and all interrogative techniques others are expected to sit through.

By the way, I hope your last few posts are not repeated attempts in trying to "engage" me or anything, right? I know there's another word you can use to avoid any hypocrisy. I'll let you fill that in for the sake of the young desciples.

Lastly, I once again commend you for breaking this conspiracy. As you have already stated the Arab lawyers, the IRI controllers and the terrorist commentators on this site are conspiring against you. You are standing up to all of them with your mightly pen.

Keep on bravely fighting for the cause, my friend! Israel needs you and you are delivering.

Zion

I can't speak for Q, but I think the answer to your question on why people decide to live where they do is personal. Mine certainly is, I tell you that it doesn't include an ounce of hypocracy, but it's still nobody's business.

It's like me asking why are you living here and defending the occupation of land and the slaughter of innocnet people by the zionist task masters (not the jews, because they are being expolided just as well as the palestinans except they have less casualties)

I'm glad you enjoyed it as a

I'm glad you enjoyed it as a joke, but hopefully you'll make note of some the fine points discussed about Iran's progress and America's shortcomings for future reference. This way you can at least have your backup plan on how you intend to contribute to your society, wherever you so chose to reside. The majority of the random IRI bashers have yet to take leap for the western skies, so eventually your time will come when you'll begin to spread your wings and soar throught the clouds of the justice and democracy you've learned to love so dearly from your TV screens, only to find a surprise that will change your perspective forever. On the other hand it's possible that some of you will play it safe and remain on shore for the rest of your lives. That's ok too, because there is also a place in this world for medicority, which is what fuels the debate for your attention. But remember Zion plays the bad character here, and his house of cards will eventually tumble down.

BBC refuses to broadcast charity appeal for Gaza aid
//www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europe/01/25/bbc.gaz...

Still avoiding the question with irrelevancies Q

There was no talk superior or inferior cultures or anything in my question, or my guess as to its answer. Given your numerous "contributions" here, I think it is fair to guess you view America, Israel and the West in general to be in a decadent state. Decadent is neither inferior nor superior, and in any case I wasn't ascribing this to my own views. So still irrelevant ranting Q. My question is a very fair one. You have chosen to live here instead of in your Islamic Republic. It begs an answer why that is, when you are so much in support of them. I haven't chosen to live in a land I despise, I do not side with an enemy of the United States. You do. Therefore the natural obvious question is on you. Why US instead of your beloved Islamic Republic? Why don't you answer the question, Q? What are you afraid of?

Zion, I know it must be diffucult dealing with inferior cultures

that's why I prefer letting your highness fill in the correct answer you already have for these so-called questions. I realize they are rhetorical, and my humble opinion about myself, my religion and my country is quite irrelevant and not up to par with your super-duper-foreknowledge of me and my country.

Speaking of which, there have been several outstanding questions of you which have yet to be answered. I assume it's a matter of your oft-stated superior cultural upbringing that necessitates such double standards.

So, once again, consider it a conspiracy which you alone can uncover. You are on the right track, a few more questions and the house of cards will fall and you will have done your duty against the enemies of Israel. Onward soldier!

Black and white

Dear Abarmard, great points you've got there. Indeed, the way of changing the current situation and steer toward democratic reforms in Iran is not through sanctions and other means of pressure which only results in further entrenching the ruling theocracy! In fact the ruling establishment welcomes sanction and threat as pretexts to stifle dissent! Iran is no Cuba or Iraq, it has various strategic, economic, financial, commercial means to maneuver and survive the external pressure. While a stable economy that is a part of the international trade system will help establish a viable middle class -- that BTW is the bedrock of a democratic, civil society -- and provide more incentive for Iran to behave in a way becoming of a civilized nation.

Unfortunately, as you rightly pointed out, many of the Iranians in Diaspora do not understand the situation. Some intentionally, do to their own misguided agenda and others due to lack of information, perpetuate a Manichean view of Iran (or maybe the world) as battle between the Good and Evil. As it is in the comic books, the black and white, good and evil, right and wrong, the protagonist and the villain battle it out a la Armageddon! This view has failed to address the diversity of underlying current at work in the realities as well as the complexities of today's Iranian society. It has done so for the past 30 years, and it will for some time to come!

Western Decadence and Iran (to Zion)

Zion, have you ever been to Iran? Have you visited it recently?
If you think there is no western decadence in Iran you are totally wrong. There is lots of western decadence in Iran, much of it almost identical to what we have here, some of it even in a more exaggerated and extreme form.
This is what I saw around two years ago, and I am not saying that from a religious perspective, as you know I broke one of the main 7 Noahide laws more than 30 years ago(I cursed god).
SO, I am not sure where you are going with that question from Q.

Have nothing better to say Q?

me: 'Q, Why don't you live there yourself? Why stay in the decadent west?'

Q: 'Because it's a conspiracy against you.'

How is that relevant Q? I understand you are trying to be funny, it is supposed to be sarcastic humor or something. I realize that. But still, even that needs some level of relevance behind its main puch line. Your attempt is such irrelevant and void of meaning.

Now, are we to take this as a "I have no real reason to give for why I have chosen this parasitic life in which I live and take advantage of all the benefits of the America, but direct my attention to the destruction of all of its foundations because of the deep rooted ideological hatred I bear against it and all it stands for, including the main causes of the prosperity I shamelessly take advantage of by residing here"?
Is this kind of petty revenge the reason you feel no sympathy with people who live inside Iran, under conditions you clearly do not wish to be yourself in, by siding with their oppressors from afar?

Where does all this come from Q? The bitter feeling of a sharp inferiority complex? Is that it? Would you care contemplate on this yourself and untie some of the knots? Would you share the outcomes with us too?

Hamid jan,

What Perkins talked about was real, but it is way too common to be a conspiracy. It's just the reality of a global Geopolitics. Groups of elites (not even countries) have major interests in the third world and use propaganda and media manipulation (both functions of money) to get their way.

The first option and the preferred one is that no one finds out what they are doing and people accept their cover stories of "democracy" and "humanitarian" development. That is to say "nothing is controlled by them." So there's no need for ordinary people to do anything against them.

The second option, if the first is compromised or unsustainable (which it always will become) is to say "everything is controlled by them," so any resistance is "useless" and a waste of time. Therefore there is nothing ordinary people can do against these forces.

You have sadly and hopelessly fallen for #2. Both are weapons of equal potency. Iranians typically fall for #1, and quickly switch to #2. Your case is very severe unfortunately.

However who asked for a half-British half-Kashmiri Indian son of a British spy and petroleum officer to be the new representative on the Iranian people?

This is laughable bullshit. So is the "Bilderberg", "9/11" and "illuminati" conspiracies. These theories are so fantastic that they can only be the hallucinations of severely traumatized minds. If that's what you want to believe, I don't think there's anything anyone can do for you.

There's a big big difference between Perkins and this garbage: it's called evidence.

Pahlavan:

Yes Q, I know, I am "dishonest" and what I wrote was "crap", and I should to be stoned to death. So now that we are done with the IRI style rhetoric lets get to business.

Anyone who is this dishonest with lies and accusations deserves no attention and it makes perfect sense that such a person cannot be objective. Unfortunately like many other Iranians, you have created such a painful monster in your mind that you can't be bothered with facts and evidence anymore.

I did briefly click on your so-called evidence (Travel Document Center???). Who the hell are they? What is their own source and what makes them an expert in this subject? Why do they not accept established figures?

The numbers are totally bogus. Iran produces 10-15Million tons, even 8M in bad years are you kidding me with this bullshit????

Unlike you, I point to real authority from a reputable, non-political and recent source. US Department of Agriculture read for yourself.

Owing to the severity of current conditions and the breadth of areas impacted, wheat production in 2008/09 is forecast by USDA at 12.0 million tons, down 3.0 million or 20 percent from last year.

//www.pecad.fas.usda.gov/highlights/2008/05/I...

Here's a historical analysis going back to 1960. As you can see the best that was done before 1979 was 5.75 Million Tons in 1975.

//www.indexmundi.com/iran/agriculture/wheat.h...

I'm certain you are quite impervious to reality (as I explained), you either show why USDA numbers are wrong, or you have no argument at all.

Let's be honest with ourselves. You have no clue about wheat production, nor do you care to. You are just repeating some BS someobody else wrote to express your anger at the IRI.

Politically motivated pamphlets aren't worth the ink they are printed on. Like it or not, Iran's successes are routinely under-estimated for political reasons in the West.

Perfect example of the fear real independence creates.

Zion: Because it's a conspiracy against you.

UAE, India and south korea

UAE, India and south korea are anything but independant. They either don't have the choice or they've settled for the crums.

There is a massive US military base near South Korea dictating what takes form there. India is as good as what it was before the US began to outsource it's call center operations and programming work there. UAE is getting support to become the financial center of the middle east and american companies are already there jockying for position. I also suspect that UAE can be a competing force to neutralize Iran's boorse from taking momentum. I think the history of boorse, Iranian Anglo Oil, and the US merchantile exchange is worth a close study, not to mention the impact of Iran's decision to stop trading on the US dollar.

More importantly Iranians don't consider competing for just the crust as a good value proposition. They feel they should be able to compete for the whole pie, and that poses a big financial risk for the west.

I am admittedly new to this 'game'

Q:

I'm way past what Perkins has said in public, he was just a gentle introduction to how the world operates, it was never meant to suggest that the Iranian revolution was engineered overtly by the West such as Mossadegh's overthrow, however it brought the discussion out of this fantasy meant for the "dull masses", the students/Mujahideen/ etc. were the ones who justly responded on their own initiative. However who asked for a half-British half-Kashmiri Indian son of a British spy and petroleum officer to be the new representative on the Iranian people? Obviously this government, while nationalistic and striving for ethical purity to some extent, cannot escape the inevitable corruption which comes from such power. I am not ashamed to love my country more than my life, I know there are mostly good elements within the Iranian government, and while the moderate Bilderberg invitee Khatami sounded a note of conciliation with the global powers that be, Ahmadinejad has impressively gone against the current and in fact encouraged conspiracy theories, some of which are probably in part true. There is much more to this than nationalism. I do prefer Khamenei much more than Khomeini, at least he is Iranian, at least he encouraged science (which is much more than I can say for the last U.S. President. They are not a puppet in the sense of the Shah of course, but they are ultimately contributing to the contrapuntal dialectic which helps the ultimate goals of the original Sumerian cult. The "west" began in the Babylon, the battle is no longer just political or economic, but in fact quite metaphysical and cosmic. How deep are you ready to go Q? This has nothing to do with narcissism, if you aren't familiar with how evil really works, then you are better off believing whatever religion you follow tells you, because it is far beyond morality at this stage of the exercise. As long as bloodlines are in power, they do not have the interests of the people at heart, whether the Monarchy or the Clergy.

From their own mouth:
//www.likud.nl/extr462.html
//www.savethemales.ca/002056.html

Now that is the best joke that I heard in a long long time.

Commenter said:

I chose to live here not because I've lived in the US for most of my life, but because I want to help tumble the walls of racism and ignorance in America! Why do you think a million people died over the civl war?

OMG! So you are here to improve the condition in the country that you despise "fi-sabilallah", the country that just elected a minority for its highest office, the president! I have good news for you: by 2050 america will be 50% made of minorities, so I relieve you from that responsibility. Now get back home!

Why don't you make a trip to kurdestan or baluchestan or afghan refugee camps and see what racism means. When do you thing a kurd or a baluch or a khuzestani arab or an afghan (or a woman!) will be elected as the leader of iran?

But that was a pretty good joke, I confess!

Q...

You are muddying waters to change the subject and blame other elements for IRI failures and your contradictory support for the most criminal regime that iranians have seen in a long long time. Right there you lose your qualification to make a fair judgment about iran. You cannot not see the miserable condition of iranians, you cannot not see 40,000+ iranians that have been executed in the last 30 years, you cannot not see widespread prostitution in iran, you cannot not see 170-something, the highest per capita in the world, of juveniles on death row, you cannot not see imprisonment of a million signature women, you cannot not see arrest of bad-hejab girls and their rape and murder, you cannot not see torture and murder of our kurdish citizens, you cannot not see that rafsanjani runs an airline business, you cannot not see that ayatollah ghara'ati is in high-rise building business, ..., and still be "iranian" and support that regime.

So that all puzzles me, specially when you support revolution and still curse the shah's regime who in every aspect was a saint "compared to" IRI criminals. Slogans like "independence" have done nothing for us in 30 years, and as they say, "shoaar vaaseh faati tomoon nemisheh."

That is why people call you "IRI agent" because they are puzzled. But I would say you do not rationalize; your support for IRI had any value only if you were living in iran without any religious or financial ties to the government; then and only then you would be walking the talk.

Do you know that Chinese and Indians who lived in the west for a long time are returning back home. WHY are you here? Do you dislike living in iran or is it that iran does NOT give you the life that you want. May I remind you that 4 million iranians have emigrated out of iran since 1979, while those who lived outside iran (students excluded) before 1979 were only a few thousands.

Yes, 70 M iranians are living there, but how many are content? How many do not want to get out? How many are not lining up behind embassy doors to run away? We don't have any accurate data, why? We can take a poll in the west, but can you show me a poll that has been taken by a neutral organization in iran? Or is it that they would end up in Evin? Don't just live in the west; learn something useful from them, and wish that for iran too. For how long should we tolerate humiliation and disgrace of belonging to a third-world country?

What are you Q? Are you an "iranian" or a moslim first? IF you count yourself as Iranian and you do not see the criminality of this regime, then there is something fundamentally wrong there.

On one hand you cheer iranian independence and on the other hand you blame the isolation of that independence for ills of iran. VISA and MASTER-CARD? Give me a break. YOU go back and make VISA and MASTER-CARD there. Sanctions? I thought you wanted independence and anything american was bad? YOU go back and build everything there. Iran has 100 years of experience in oil and gas exploration and refinery, and yet they are incapable of digging for oil and refining for their OWN needs; iran has to import 60% of her needs and beg chinese to drill a hole in the ground for them and take the oil out and pay mullas cash to send to palestine and lebanon and iraq. These are nothing but excuses for failures of ideology of islamic republic, that have not gone away for the past 30 years, and still they do not know that they are not living in an ideal world. America does not owe us anything, anything at all. And they never donate anything for free to mullas in tehran (or anybody else); why should they? They are after their own american interests only, and I wish IRI was like that too. They do NOT act like mullas who would bribe anyone and any country, palestine and lebanon, india and china, russia and central asia, and come out empty-hand at the end. You want independence IRI style, you should live with its consequences (that you aren't). It is utter double hypocrisy to NOT live under IRI that you cherish AND live under the regime that you criticize and blame (and support with your tax money) for anything and everything.

No, my comparisons are not ridiculous, becuase unlike you, my view of iranians is high; I do not consider iranians so incapable that they need to wait for eternity to maybe america donated something to them to make a better living - iranians do NOT need donation of any kind, they need good governance. You want US aid for iranian development? First why? Iran has plenty of resources if not mismanaged and not looted and not sent to palestine and lebanon and iraq. Second, why US should aid iran; I thought you wanted independence. Do you think US should be in LOVE with khamenei and ahmadinejad's ugly faces and twisted eyes and donate billion. You wanted independence, and that is what it brings: isolation. You cannot ask for "god" and "date" (khoda va khorma) at the same time.

There is nothing wrong about my opinion becuase I do what I preach; I am consistent. I do not praise a regime that I fail to live within; you do.

But think about it: Dubai, Qatar, and Sharejeh were backward piles of dust even in 1989 with practically empty treasury (they all loaned to saddam up to their last dollar), and they did not have billions from US, and hardly any iranian lived there. Not only they turned their countries into decent countries in 20 years, but also own many assets in america and europe. And some 20 to 40% of dubai consists of run-away iranians. Why? Are you telling me that the islamic republic that you so much cherish is less capable of that bozo Sheikh of Qatar? Or are iranians less intelligent than Qataris?

Q: if you are an ideologue, moslim or otherwise, I understand your position. But if you are an "iranian" first (and that is a BIG IF), you really need to (1) why you have no empathy with iranians for 30 years of criminality against people of iran, and (2) do some soul searching to see why you live with contradictions, refusing to live under the regime that you cherish. I know for sure that if I liked the islamic republic as much as you (or other islamists commenting on this site) do, I would not hesitate to live there for a second.

I should to be stoned to death

Yes Q, I know, I am "dishonest" and what I wrote was "crap", and  I should to be stoned to death. So now that we are done with the IRI style rhetoric lets get to business.

IRI, after 20 years of its establishment managed to increase the wheat importation by a factor of almost 4 (from 1.8m tons to 7m tons) and after 30 years of IRI the wheat import is back where it was 30 years ago at 2m tons:

"Iran more than a decade after the revolution was no more self-sufficient than it was in the latter days of the Shah's rule. In the Iranian year of 1991 the value of food imports through government agencies was $5.3 billion (Imports by private sector are not officially recorded.) Imports of wheat were estimated at 4.5m tons, those of rice at 800000 tons and those of coarse grains at 1.3m tons. According to the International Grains Council, wheat imports reached 5m. tons in 1996 and an estimated 7m tons in 1997, making Iran the world's largest wheat importer." [Source: The Middle East and North Africa 2003 By Europa Publications Staff, Eur, Europa Publications]

The point being that after 30 years Iran is more dependent than the former regime ever was. You would expect that during the past thirty years, during which most countries of the world had huge leaps forward, Iran a country so rich in resources (be it natural or human) would be a prosperous country by now. But sadly Iran is controlled by the most disqualified and backward portion of its population and hence its progress in different aspects has been either backward, non-existent or slow at best. The reality is that had Shah remained in power Iran would have been a prosperous country and a world power to be reckoned with.

"Pre-revolutionary Iran's economic development was rapid. Traditionally an agricultural society, by the 1970s Iran had achieved significant industrialization and economic modernization, helped in large part by the growing worldwide demand for oil. However, the pace of growth had slowed dramatically by 1978, just before the Islamic revolution. Since the fall of the shah, economic recovery has proven elusive thanks to a combination of factors, including state interference in the economy and fluctuations in the global energy market. Economic activity was severely disrupted additionally by years of upheaval and uncertainty surrounding the revolution and the introduction of statist economic policies..." LINK

You complain of American and western sanctions, and blame them for Iran's dismal condition, but you don't mention the fact that nobody is more responsible for those sanctions more than the Mullahs themselves. I mean sure, U.S. is a bully there is no denying that but why is it that South Korea, UAE, and India have progressed so much and have had good relations with western countries?. The answer is, of course, that their leaders weren't Religious facists whose utter incompetency in diplomacy resulted in countries isolation or whose leaders were Islamist dictators that intentionally sought conflict with western countries to remain in power, as IRI thugs put it "Na sharghi Na gharbi, Jomhurieh Eslami". 

Q, your IRI style propaganda can't fool anyone here. Abarmard might be an out of touch expat, whose greatly uninformed about Iran, but I am child of revolution who has only moved here recently and visits Iran every year. By now all Iranians have realized that the "Independence" Khomeini talked about was a hoax he pulled on Iranians to establish his theocracy. After losing the caspian sea and 100's of billions of dollars potential oil revenues, after years of economic and diplomatic isolation and most important of all years of violation of human right and oppression, Iranians indeed regret the revolution.

I chose to live here not

I chose to live here not because I've lived in the US for most of my life, but because I want to help tumble the walls of racism and ignorance in America! Why do you think a million people died over the civl war?

It's comical how just about all of you arbitrary anti IRI intellects randomly argue based on content fed to you through Rupert Murdoch's propeganda machines. Furthermore, the fact that you are quick to substitute qualifiers like IRI agents or similar language alike is a confirmation that you don't have ligitimate facts to support your argument.

If China was the superpower today, and US had fully depolyed it's form of democracy and way of life in Iran, you would still hate Iran. You know why? Because IRI or Iran is an excuse for the hate that you subcontiously harbor. Kind of like the guy that gets pissed off at his boss, but goes home and beats up his wife.

Q

Why don't you live there yourself? Why stay in the decadent west?

Dear Anonym7,

You can't argue with reality.

You might be less cynical than I am about this subject, but speaking of reality, let's evaluate what the "Iranian Opposition" abroad has actually ccomplished in 30 years?

Objectively, the answer is zero. If we count the Mojahedeen, than it's probably lower than zero.

In general, I tend to stay away from "blanket statements" too, but in this case, it's quite warranted.

Anonymousx: I find this attitude at heart of the problem.

If Islamic Republic of Iran was a "country" worth living in, YOU and I, AND at least the rest of ran-away islamists would be living there after 30 years of islamic republic.

70Million people live in the "country" my friend. Even more live in China and Africa. In my many dealings with the "ran away" Iranians here in the West, this impression is common but very much removed from reality.

It comes from a sort of psychological self-congratulation and self-justification. It is an attitude that says "Everyone believes like I do".

Yes, 30 years after World War II, Europe was rebuilt thanks to $Billions of US aid and loans. Our World War II lasted twice as long and ended only in 1989. Not only do we not have any of that massive aid, we have sanctions, we can't even use VISA and MASTERCARD in Iran, let alone global investment. So your comparison is rediculous. In fact it is a miracle the siutation is not much worst in the face of these hate-filled policies by global powers.

The fact that you're having this conversation in a website in America should tell you something. Why are there so many people like Abarmard and others (like myself who get called "IRI agents") who still believe in political independence and the Iranian revolution? Just look at the discussions on this site? Why so much difference of opinion among people who are NOT living under these conditions you hate so much?

Pahlevan: You are the most dishonest of all! I can't believe you write this crap.

Iran was a huge importer of American Wheat under the Shah. The production has increased steadily dispite the fact Iran has only 10% arable land, and a huge population explosion and local demand and subsidized prices. Iran imports a lot of wheat in bad-weather years (in '97-'98 there was a devestating draught) but it's also the 14th largest producer of Wheat in the world [Link].

This year, Iran will be importing Wheat but two years ago it had surplus wheat production. It's obvious from all production figures that inside of 5-10 years, Iran will be steadily exporting wheat. This is a huge accomplishment in a country like Iran.

Read some real analysis from USDA:

The growth in irrigation has contributed to the gradual but persistent increase in national wheat yields, which have risen almost 40 percent since the mid-to-late 1990’s. As long as irrigation reserves are adequate in most provinces, Iran has the capability of producing at least 10.0 million tons of wheat on a regular basis. The expansion of irrigated crop area had the general benefit of providing relative self-sufficiency in grain production, but has not completely insulated the grain economy from significant setbacks during years of extreme weather.

//www.pecad.fas.usda.gov/highlights/2008/05/I...

Abarmand

Why are you making yourself the object of ridicule by regurgitating then popular snake oils of 70s for the cheer of few ran-away islamists?

If Islamic Republic of Iran was a "country" worth living in, YOU and I, AND at least the rest of ran-away islamists would be living there after 30 years of islamic republic. Japan and Germany were re-built from ashes of WWII in much less time than that. China, Taiwan, S. Korea, Brazil, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia, Dubai, Qatar, ... turned from backward countries into decent countries, that iranians dream of living in, in much less time than 30 years. Next you want to tell me that you just discovered picture of Emam on the face of the moon and found his eminence's beard in the middle of "British" Webster (not Koran -- that is out of fashion by now). For god's sake, you are living in the freedom of the west; look around yourself and "see" and learn something from them.

Maybe you should make a trip to iran, stay there for ONE month, see and talk to ordinary people, make a visit to Evin, another to Tehran University and like, and then ask yourself if IRI has done anything, anything at all, not for palestinians, not for lebanese, not for islam, not for karbala and najaf, but for IRAN and IRANIANS. And anytime you pass by a major establishment, be it Universities, Banks, Gas and Electric Companies, Refineries, Steel Mill, ..., please ask yourself when it was established, before or after the dark days of 1979. Any why is it that Iranians line up behind embassies like Dubai's to "beg" for visa? Is it because Dubai's arabs are smarter than iranians, or is it becuase the dependent dictator monarch Sheikh of Dubai is smarter than any IRI leader and has managed to turn his country around rather than screaming and fisting in the streets and putting his nose where it does not belong and handing old slogans to his people instead of respect and bread and butter and decent job and dignified life.

Payandeh Iran.

Islamists Perals of Wisdom dispensed

The fact is that over the last 30 years, the preservation, growth of capital, as well as the depth and meaning of their lives has by far outpaced the shallow hard working, big screen TV loving, Sports utility driving, porno culture and lifestyle you seem to advocate.

Now our Islamists have combined their "sophisticated" propaganda with razor sharp economic acumen.

Pulling a regular Ahmadinejad on this site has become a commonplace.

Continue wallowing in self-rightouness and taqiyah while marrying/sighyin, 9-year olds and stoning women/men to death from your polygamist oasis in central Teharan. Enjoy your drug-addicted, virgin-raping before executing them, prostitute-ridden streets, eye-gouging, limb-amputating, maiming,face-cutting, and massacring culture!

Thes are the things that turns Islamist on!

Abarmard you contradict yourself

"The idea expressed here is a "political Independence", which is different than a country closing its borders and survive without outside contact. That old fashion description is now comical."

Abarmard you contradict yourself. The "comical" definition of independence that you talk about was the exact definition of "independence" that IRI thugs shoved down people's throats and still do to this date. They referred to Shah's openness to foreign investment during his ambitious efforts to modernize Iran as "vabastegi be dolateh biganeh", hence after the revolution they isolated Iran (or as they put it "dasteh bigana ro ghat kardan") in the name of "independence" while they chanted "Na sharghi Na gharbi". By the way while you are at it look up "political independence" as well, which is meaningless in a dictatorship.

"Although one can argue Iran today is capable of providing all the needs of its people."

Your non-existant "argument", on the other hand, is truly comical. You are not only out of touch with Iranians but also greatly uninformed. Mullahs came into power, promising independence and prosperity, what Iran got was poverty, weakness, and dependence even for the most basic needs ... wheat; Iran, as a result, became the biggest importer of wheat in the world in the year 1998 and to this date Iran is one the biggest importers of wheat. The sad reality of all of it is: had Shah remained in power Iran not only would have been independent from west in less than a decade but also would have become an exporter of goods (other than raw materials), similar to today's South Korea or even better.

I don't believe you are an IRI supporter Abarmard, you are just uniformed and out of touch with the reality. But now we have IRI apologists and supporters of worst kind cheering for your article and as you tried to twist the concept of “independence”, they would try to twist concepts like “freedom”, “prosperity” and “democracy”. They would try to convince you that freedom is not actually having the ability to choose one’s religion, life style and even food, or being able to express one’s ideas and beliefs without fear of torture, execution and imprisonment, its more “complex” than that; or that economic prosperity is not determined by "western" or even "eastern" (Na sharghi Na gharbi) economic indicators like GDP and rate of inflation, and to better understand these concepts you have to refer to Ayatoilet Khomeini's resalehs.

So lets stop twisting the reality and listen to a wise everyday Iranian, expressing his regret about the revolution:

Q said it best!

I should add that GE's 44% overall revenue decline is a confirmation that John Perkins' theory is just that. GE had plans to build the new power plants that the US bombed in Iraq, yet the mullah's ended up securing contracts to pull power grids into Iraq.

As for Stopthelies defenision of independance, replacing such extensive supply chain is not an immediate process, specially when you integrate scinece, technology and the force of change in to that equation.

Theories aside, your western idols have been feeding you nonesense about the regions "Political instability" which is their doing to begin with, or "rate of inflation" which is due to their manupilation of the finacial system.

The fact is that over the last 30 years, the preservation, growth of capital, as well as the depth and meaning of their lives has by far outpaced the shallow hard working, big screen TV loving, Sports utility driving, porno culture and lifestyle you seem to advocate.

Perkins and his admireres

Perkins and his admireres indulges way too much in themseleves as all narcissits do. Malignant narcissits have a built-in intolerance to grasp or to want to comprehend abstract constructs. They desparetly cling to the past when faced with new data because their entire identity depends on it. They resist with vengenance to anything that might shatter their fictional realities.

Analyses of people like Perkins and his admireres , however, are all about their ego and very little about the world or their impact on much of anything.

Perkins and his ilk are too wrapped up in their idyllic denial of anything that does not conform to their egoistic need to stay self-congratulatory rigid and unyielding when faced with salient facts.

Iranian opposition (to Q)

Q says: "The Iranian opposition is not remotely ready to embrace the world of reality."

Q, I do agree with you that a good portion of the opposition has not embraced the reality. Additionally I believe among that good portion, there are many that are as ruthless, corrupt and incompetent as the worst elements in IRI, however I find your blanket statement incorrect and out of touch with reality as well.

spoke WAY too soon...

The Iranian opposition is not remotely ready to embrace the world of reality.

It is still stuck with fantasy, propaganda, conspiracies born out of insecurity. Is it any wonder people in Iran ignore them completely?

Maybe another 30 years of drinking "ab khonak" would wake them up, but I'm not so sure.

According to some deeply troubled friends, Everything that has ever happened is done by a powerful manipulator absolving not only them of any fault, but allwing them to wash their hands of the future as well. A philosophy tailor made for sideline bitching as the main activity of life. This comes from an attitude of inferiority that says we are nothing and we can't do anything. Fortunately people inside Iran have moved beyond this.

Hamid J.: Don't make me laugh. Perkins (an extraordinary man that I have met personally) has never ever suggested that Iranian revolution was engineered by the West. Quite the contrary: The revolution overthrew the government that was literally engineered by the West as a puppet in Iran. People who continue to believe Carter, or the BBC "overthrew" the Shah are really in deep, sad denial. There is no other way to put it.

You should be ashamed of putting these words in Perkins' mouth.