Misc

Rosie/Captain

You're forcing me to think rationally and not emotionally. :-)

I would much prefer to cast my vote with Fred or Reza and say that it doesn't really matter if this was recent Iran or not.  but I do recognize that it simply allows for accusations of intentional misrepresentation.  And I unfortunately would have to agree that it plays right into the hands of the resident apologists who will simply make everything about "propaganda". 

Rosie's theme

Minority of one.  Poor me.

Khareji in blogestaan.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw5eTaGSKPc

Rosie, moderation has gone haywire!

Firstly Rosie, you say I have asked you twice to COMMENT on the fabricated story of the 'shot baby'.  I did not Rosie.  I brought it to your attention, as that thread too was about unsubstantiated or fabricated news.  As a matter of fact, I thank you for commenting in response.  Did I ever mention that your response was "too long"?!  In my comment below I only clarified the point I had mentioned to you, which it seems you had misunderstood.  I did not mean to insult you and I don't believe I did.  Neither did I criticise you for the points you are raising on this thread!!  

You say: "What's the obsession with me, Mehrnaz? Get over it. You're twisted. Untwist yoirself and hang yourself nicely and neatly from the line to drip dry. Completely twisted."

I hope you realise this language and attitude is totally wrong and unwarranted! Perhaps read my comment again.  My reply email to you too, has been very civil and kind, has it not?  You thanked me for the thumbs up!!  I am sorry however, if, for whatever reason, you feel hurt by me.   

Moderator: On another note, my comment in the thread on 'Taraneh Mousavi' and the 'shot baby', Rosie is referring to here has been INEXPLICABLY DELETED!   There has been no offensive language, not even personal exchange let alone insult of any kind in this comment.  Why has this comment been deleted?

Jahanshah

Thanks for the clarification

IRANdokht

For clarification, Mehrnaz,

my comments on this thread began with the first one at with a link to the post I had written in reply to you on a featured news item about Taraneh Mousavi. I had said on that thread that the hoax brought up disturbing questions about the movment. Yoo replied to me and asked me to comment about another false item which had been circulating about a shot pregnant woman. You actually posted to me twice to comment on it because I didn't reply to the first one right away. So I replied, at length.

Now I'll just interject here that everything I am about to say is exclusively for and about you, Mehrnaz. It has nothing to do with Jahanshah.

My first post below with my link to my comment to you specified that people here shoudl look at section two of the comment That is the section in which I told you that an item here on someone being thrown out of a window had stayed on top of the home page for two days even though it had immediately been identified as being from Iraq.  And that that particular news item on Tarineh whose thread we were on had never been unfeatured after the Taraneh Mousavi Iranian of the Day thread had been removed because it was a hoax.. I also explained to you that even after that a blog with a video dedicated to Taraneh had been featured. I expessed great concern about this.

I wrote you privately to tell you I had replied to you and you wrote back telling me what you just said below to me and also voicing all kinds of other concerns about this issue of false postings and so on. You wrote me a long e-mail about all this.

I don't know how many other people on this thread we're on now e-mailed Jahanshah about this item here but I did twice. And now you come charging in with great glee to take advantage of this opportunity to try to make a fool out of me for caring about how information is disseminated on this site, after repeatedly asking for my opinons on same and engaging me at length and so on.

What's the obsession with me, Mehrnaz? Get over it. You're twisted. Untwist yoirself and hang yourself nicely and neatly from the line to drip dry.

Completely twisted.

JJ, thank you indeed for this clarification ..

"YouTube, Facebook, personal blogs, or iranian.com for that matter, are not news agencies. Every day they carry countless posts, images, videos with claims from individuals who have no journalistic credentials. And sometimes they have no shame or integrity such as in cases like the photo above".  

Thank you Jahanshah. Your acknowledgment of the inevitable limits of the Iranian.com is a vindication of your own journalistic integrity.  

Rosie, the person you are referring to is myself.  For the sake of accuracy again, what I said to you was this: "The fact is that for the majority of individuals who 'frequent' Iranian.com, Iranian is neither their source of information nor always an appropriate forum to discuss things seriously".  .... "Neither is the Iranian considered a forum or centre for serious political activity".

This was in fact in reference to your concern, anger and frustration that you were burdened with the responsibility of having to inform Iranians of what is happening in Iran and indeed leading them in political action ... I commented on the wrong premise and how this stance is construed as 'inappropriate' by many Iranians on this site, despite your good intentions.  

Dariush

Nobody understands your comments. And how could they? Read that one you just left, for instance. Does it make sense?

ex programmer craig

If you don't understand my comments and you are having trouble, then you need to trouble shoot yourself. Being ex programmer craig, that shouldn't be hard to do for you.  Good luck.

Soild Waste Sewage System of News has a backflow Sir.

Dear Editor,

There has been a flaw in the Soild Waste Sewage System of the News recently and because of the backflow (the current picture fiasco from Iraq which was tried to be sticken to Iran). As a fair request I am asking that our false prophets with their progpaganda against IRI, Iran, and Islam, who they have been dishing out to us all the crap (Esfahani's accent "keke") in the past for nothing and everythig as they claimed for their hiden agenda, take this and other Solid Waste Sewage System backflow of "keke" and eat it.

As late Micheal Jackson woud sing: (B)eat it, (B)eat it, ... just eat it

No more carp, and no more excuses. 

Nosratallah

Thanks, Jahanshah, from everyone, I'm sure, but... /ALL

but my humble main point to you through all the verbiage was that if you hadn't known it was questionable, you wouldn't've put the question mark. So, especially on this crucial weekend with so many visitors and two doors down from the GREEN protester whose head was blown off (last month), was it wise to feature this so prominently? It's not just the disinformation issue. It's that it made it look like a sensationalist rag. I do feel that with the addition of Iraq under the photo on the homepage, it makes a pacifist statement.

But I also still feel, as I wrote two doors down, that the date of the shooting should've been included on the homepage, not just when you open it. Visitors could feel manipulated. Again...rag.

People tell me I shouldn't take this site so seriously, that serious people in the Iranian community don't take it seriously. But it should be taken seriously. It has so much potential.  Look at the news section: it's become one of the best since June 12.  So many people on top of the sources day and ni.This site should always be ithe very best. Especially now, with the movement. The ante's been permanently raised.

Sorry. if I sound like I'm 'on the rag' again. 

___________________

PS ALL--how many e-mailed the editor? Don't forget, there's no more moderation except for flaggings. So nobody's combing the threads regularly.

Wiva la evolucion.

Intentional Propaganda !

Some have fallen for the intentional misinformation campaign of the Islamic thugs. Passing false information through trusted journalist (or any) sources is the oldest intelligence trick. The Islamist regime always talks about the "psychological warfare of the enemy". They have manipulated Iranian and foreign public for years using these methods.

What is very disturbing about this particular misinformation campaign, in relation to recent internal events, is that these genocidal crimes are most likely being carried out right now. There are plenty of indications and some evidence of murders in the streets right now. There would be no need for a misinformation campaign about mass murders if there were no suspicions of such crimes.

Be vigilant!

CORRECTION: Mass killings in IRAQ

I received an email clarifying that this photo shows victims of violence in Iraq. See:
//www.uruknet.de/?p=m34591&hd=&size=1&l=e

Hundreds of videos and photos of the uprising in Iran have been posted on this site and many others. There is no way of immediately verifying the accuracy or truthfulness of any of them.

YouTube, Facebook, personal blogs, or iranian.com for that matter, are not news agencies. Every day they carry countless posts, images, videos with claims from individuals who have no journalistic credentials. And sometimes they have no shame or integrity such as in cases like the photo above.

The person who came up with the idea of spreading this photo and claiming it was a scene from Evin prison, is either stupid (thinking this would bring more condemnation against the Iranian regime) or malicious (trying to discredit genuine citizen journalism).

Making false claims against the Islamic Republic will actually bolster its claim that the resistance is a gross exaggeration concocted by foreign powers.

I'm glad public vigilance has helped uncover the truth.

Skirting the issue. Nazy, Ayhab, Mouse, Camel, Jahanshah

First of all the issue of the ones on the anti-IRI side rationalizing this lying and the ones on the IR-ish side saying IR doesn't lie is school kid stuff. All we can do is just remind them that they're lying and that their rationalizations would  sound silly if they weren't so goddam dangerous. Both. Equally. 

____________________

The issue of specific responsibilities of serious citizen journalism are crucial and the points well-expressed. But Nazy, you're skirting a core isssue here. You too, Ayhab (and Ari...)

Nazy you say we're not professional journalists, and  you address the community as readers, viewers and commentators. But one of the people here among us is a professional journalist. And so too you, Ayhab. You talk about writing the author of this post (the submitter) but the submitter is not  ultimately responsible for editorial. The editor is. So you're both skiriting a  crucial core issue. 

No, Mouse, the site's not on autopilot. But if the site is being undermonitored due to traveling, especially at such a crucial time, responsibility should be delegated.

In any case, the reason I'm SO frustrated is because I already addressed this extensively after how the roof-throwing and then the Tarineh Moussavi problem was handled. Progress must be made. One option could've been to make this post a blog with a clear question in the title instead of displaying the image.  But.. for it to remain so PROMINENTLY displayed after immediate descrediting---is this wise?

Especially with, two doors down, the video of the man whose head was shot off--a REAL tGREEN tragedy (but one which happened a month ago, and yet the date is not on the homepage). All-this looks bad. Real bad. Today of all days when all over  the world people are googling Iran like mad, and lots coming here. Trust me, they are. What will they think of the website, the movement? What is this, the Green National Enquirer?

Should this have been posted at all? Where? How? Near what? And how, if at all, should that change after being discredited?

____________________

Turning to my ideological adversaires. Camel, I honestly don't think there's intentional propaganda going on here. I think the problem is more a LACK of intention. Or better said, attention.

Again, Jahanshah, whether you like it or not, you're a leader in this movement now. But you others have to help him lead and the first thing to help would be to acknowledge that a professional journalist who is editor exists. Scrutiny of the editor's role here should not be coming mainly from the other 'side.

And certainly not from me. He never listens to me anmore. Pity. I'm going on  a looooooooong vacation. 

Good point, Nazy

A cheap shot by

1. By the publisher of the Iranian.com

2. By the ones who claim this is Evin prison.

Darisuh

That is how it all starts, with a lie, then becomes a major crime.  If
some are willing to use false information and lie today, they will do
the same and more tomorrow. so don't take people as fools and post
accurate information!

Somehow, I'm having trouble picturing you condemning the thousands of obvious frauds that have been pimped by Palestinian activists over the years. I've gotten so tired of pointing out to my Arab friends the clear and intentional misrepresentation of facts in those videos that I don't take anything Palestinian activists say seriously anymore. I just assume it's a fabrication. I'm sure that's what you would like to see happen in regards to the IRI too, which is why you are saying what you are saying, but I have great respect for people like Rosie (and JJ) who make no secret of their support for the opposition, but point out when stories may not be credible.

Misinformation is not the right way.....

We on the right side must be right all the times. We do not need to lie specially when there is enough documents to show IRI is wrong.

Here is another link relating this picture to IRAQ.

  //avideditor.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/this-day-april-17/

 Peace

Shaayad Keh

Citizen journalism

With the dismissal of foreign reporters and the gag order on all media inside Iran on reporting on the recent unrest, news and information has been coming out of Iran through ordinary citizens who capture images and snippets of information from here and there and post it on the internet. This has caused an unexpected, welcome, and complicated revolution in the world of information. Video clips and images without any useful and responsible information have been appearing everywhere, collectively telling a macaber and horrible story. Journalists and journalism schools all over the world are talking about the "citizen journalism phenomenon" emerging out of Iran.

As responsible readers, viewers, and commentators, it is upon us to perform due dilligence on the stuff we see and read. While no one has any doubts that atrocities have happened and are continuing to happen, and as dedicated Iranians inside Iran risk their lives to get information about those events to us, let's not forget for a minute that as the targeted audience, we too have a responsibility. What would it take to quickly "verify" the images we see? In the case of the "men thrown from rooftops," people were vigilant enough to spot the uniform of Iraqi army on the perpetrators. In the case of the picture here, someone did point out the clothes on the poor victims.

Ask yourselves simple questions and exchange information and thoughts about what you are seeing. Remember, there is no "professional journalism" in operation during these times. Do your part in learning and disseminating the information and weeding out hoaxes and traps.

Each of us is the other side of "citizen journalism." We should do our best to be responsible.

che khabar e aziz

When one misrepresents the truth then it is a lie, although it might be unintentional. This is not a philosophical discussion.

I am aware that none of us are professional journalist but it should not prevent us from seeking the truth. There are plenty of photos, clips and documentation regarding the events in Iran in past 30 years particularly in past few weeks. Why resort[even unintentionally] to  something that so clearly been proven to belong to another time and another place.

I have taken the liberty in emailing the author of the blog and pointing to the error but I am yet to hear a response, or see correction of the error. At this point responsibility lies with the author for not monitoring his thread.

As far as I am concerned, IR agents[I am not referring to the author] might have circulated the photo in order to discredit and harm the movement, because this is not the first time.

-YT 

This is IRAQ not IRAN (Misinformation)

Check this link:

//avideditor.wordpress.com/2009/04/16/this-day-april-17/

THIS IS NOT FOREMOST ABOUT THE MOVEMENT'S /PS Ben..

CREDIBILITY IN THE EYES OF THE WORLD (although these things undermine that to no end..) To repeat, IT IS ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF THE MOVEMENT TO ITSELF.

lying is lying. Corruption is corruption. Rationalizing is rationalizing. You are becoming what you hate.  You're fighting fire with fire. You're gonna get burned.

__________________

But as far as credibility goes, unaware, a House representative made a big speech with a huge photo of Taraneh Mousavi, using her as the great martyr of the cause. because of LIES like these That's just what you need. For IRI to be able to document lies in Congress. Sohrab wasn't good enough to be the new Neda?

__________________

ps once again, i'm not talking to or about jahanshah's posting this here. that's a separate (although important) issue.

pps benyamin, this is not a piece of art, it's a piece of journalism. .this is a lie. submit it with a different framing, as a metaphor..a musing..on the similarites. but don't justify in any way its having been insidiously disseminated for propaganda purposes.  

Listen guys

Some people have been trying so hard to make IRI look good for as long as I have joined this site. remember their names:

jaleHO, Mehdi, Dariush,...

It maybe a different picture, it maybe even from a different country. But it is important, because first, we have no "access to truth". Second it resembles of what may have happened. Third the news coming out of Iran "confirms" the reality on the ground in Iran.

When an Artist, paints the pain of so many in so many genres that doesn`t mean he/she is fabricating or cheating by depicting what he/she understands of what he/she knows about the truth.

We know that number of kids have been killed while in captivity such as Kamrani or Roholamini and even their families were notified that they are arrested, WHAT HAS HAPPEND TO THEM THAT THEY ARE NO LONGER ALIVE?

I am asking that of everyone on here and remember this picture, and then you can see the relevance.

By the way Dariush, I amnot Jewish nor Muslim nor christian nor Bahai, my religion is pure Persian and don`t you woory about my blood type worry about yours which is OB.

It is a LIE. This did not happen in Iran now. It does not matter

that it is similar to things going on now in Iran. A young man was just tortured to death in prison. There will be more such cases, unfortunately, among these 'missing'.  But that has nothing to do with this item.

Now. Those of you who are defending this: Propaganda is propaganda. It's based on PERVERSIONS of truth.

_______________________

Che kar, you wrote: Is it a lie or a misrepresentation of the current situation?  Big difference.  It might not be something that happened in Iran recently, but it IS something that happened.  I wonder if the IRI apologists will be so blase about OTHER horrendous pictures, even when they're fishing in those muddy waters elsewhere. I wonder if they will be so concerned about other propaganda.  I rather think not.  It's funny how "facts" and "fiction" can be so intertwined.

That's the whole point in a nutshell. There IS no difference between a lie and an intentional misrepresentation, and your claimng there is is itself a rationalization, an intentional (though subconscious in your case) misrepresentation. And your being blase about it on basis of how blase IRI is about something else..all of this is the occupational hazard of those who fight injustice. To become the thing they are fighting. The thing they hate.

That's the reason why so many movements against injustice become at worst totalitarian themselves, and at BEST (and in most cases) corrupt.

They become what they most hate.

Is this what you want?

__________________________________________________________

THIS IS NOT FOREMOST ABOUT THE CREDIBILITY OF THE MOVEMENT TO OTHERS. THIS IS ABOUT THE INTEGRITY OF THE MOVEMENT TO ITSELF.

____________

ps I'm not talking about jahanshah here. this is not a case of perversion of truth, which is carefully planned. this posting here is just the opposite.

Is it a "lie"

or a misrepresentation of the current situation?  Big difference.  It might not be something that happened in Iran recently, but it IS something that happened.  I wonder if the IRI apologists will be so blase about OTHER horrendous pictures, even when they're fishing in those muddy waters elsewhere. I wonder if they will be so concerned about other propaganda.  I rather think not.  It's funny how "facts" and "fiction" can be so intertwined.

FYI/Son of Iranian politician's aide dies in Evin prison

For once Fred wrote

For once Fred wrote something that made sense. He wrote, IRI has done similar crimes without any doubt.

So, there are plenty of accurate information and no need to post false information. By lying and posting false information, you discredit yourself and your accurate information.

Benyamin disagrees and thinks we should use Zionist's methods. I understand his view. It is not his fault. It runs in the blood.

HATEIRI,  You said, you have read all my blogs. Then you must be very stupid not to know me by know.  I only see beautiful women, but If you really want to see someone send an e-mail to samad Agha on this site. He is your type OB. 

Now, If you want to see me for other reasons, then send me an e-mail.

CHEERS to you!

I agree with Fred!

All I can tell you Evil Islamic Republic criminals out there, Repent and pray for God's
forgiveness and mercy!!! Because True Iranians wont forgive or have mercy on you after all the EVIL you have done!!!!!

And Yes, there will be a
WAR and we will defeat you!!! There are more than 60 million of us, you are not even a fraction of us in the big picture and thus, YOU WILL BE DEFEATED!!!!

This is
not a threat, it is the fact! It is not matter of IF, but WHEN???

Get ready, We are coming !!!!!!!!

In The Name Of God, We will defeat Evil Islamic Republic and bring all their agents to justice.

Free IRAN and IRANIANS.

C'mon people... /and you, Mr. Javid

for so many reasons, despite all the attrocities that occur in Iran, this is so unlikely. And now there's documentation on the thread that it's a lie. But what if there weren't?  Suspect and unconfirmed information must not be featured this way. The green movement must grow from the scrupulous quest for Truth, to restore Iran to her true place of dignity and leadership in the world. 

Jahanshah, after the spurious video of the man thrown out the window and the Taraneh Mousavi incident, I sent you a link to my post under a Taraneh Mousavi news item. The most relevant section to our current thread is section number 2. This is my post.

J., you didn't borrow money to go to see the green streams from the Eifel Tower just because you're Iranian. And you know it. You went there because, by a combinatoin of destiny, accident and choice, your life's work, this website, now places you sqarely at the epicenter of this global movement for truth.

And it suits you well. You're a leader now, Jahanshah, whether you like it or not 

Lead.

___________

ps Sorry, j, jet lag's no excuse.

I firmly believe that

I firmly believe that inaccurate news and propaganda will work against the movement in Iran.

Time and time we have seen "news" and propaganda that only a day later has turned out to be so false and it just takes credibility of the real movement that is taking place in Iran. Some do it out of naivety and ignorance, some do it because they hate any thing related to IRI and some just to distort the attention from other atrocities that is taking place in other parts of the world, i.e. Palestine.

Mehrdad

I think JJ is on his

I think JJ is on his way to the airport and the website is on autopilot and that's why for example a questionable blog remains in the belog section!  So it is a free for all!!  If you want to have more than 2 blog today, go for it!

Everything is sacred.