Misc

add me to your "delusional" list (to Fair 1.75)

Fair 1.75, please give me the honor of adding me to your delusional list, as I also have figured out that you would go to any extent of inconsistency to discredit Iran.

Faire 1.5

Fair1.5 says: "Show ONE place where I said something inaccurate. It seems like your Felan Ja is on fire here... "

Mr. Fair 1.5, I am not going to waste my time to show you anything. I got a good picture with a few exchanges we had regarding Iran's successful satellite launch.
My "Felan Ja" has no reason to be on fire, it was one of the happiest days of my life when Iran launched its first satellite, despite all U.S, Israeli, and collaborator's sabotages. .... and right now I am very happy to see this plane, even if it is 100% copy of an old plane!
I am proud of Iran's achievements specially when it is done under all these pressures.... and that is despite the fact that if I were in Iran I wouldn't be allowed to participate in achievements like these because of my ideology.

Haji is delusional

Now you are making imaginary friends.. Fair I and II? you definitely need help.

Iranian aerospace industry to support its air force did not start in 1990, it started decades before in 1969. There you go again saying Iran was dependent back then and it is independent now. And you then have the nerve to talk about facts?

I never said Iran was independent or dependent technologically now or then. I say it is no more independent today than it was 30 years ago on the outside world. Once again, compare apples to apples. If Iran wanted to operate an F-22 today it would be just as dependent on the US as it was on the US 30 years ago for the F-14. If Iran modifies the F-5, a 40 year old design today which it has had full access to for all 40 years, and that makes it independent, then Iran was equally independent in 1978, because it could have modified a 1940's plane extensively and domestically with its own technical capabilities with no outside help. That is a FACT, and if you don't think so say why.

What part of the above is incorrect? What reality (other than the completely screwed up one in your head) has been distorted here?

You are the one distorting reality by falsely claiming that our engineers are able to build this aircraft, this is a MODIFIED aircraft. So stop lying. Furthermore, it is not after 20 years, it is after 40 years. And many countries were able to do that- India, Brazil, South Korea, South Africa, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Israel, etc. With the difference that they actually designed and built new aircraft, not modified existing ones.

And yes, I will question any "expert" you bring forward here, even Maziar Behrooz. He is a historian. What is his expertise in technology and aerospace industry? What is his background in middle eastern military and military industrial affairs? And I notice you are curiously silent about your previously touted "expert" Ken Pollack?  What's wrong, did you suddenly not need his services anymore?  Do your homework dude.

And then you have the gall the nag about people "distorting reality"?

Very pathetic indeed.

Make true statements, I will have no problem. Otherwise you will get questions, so get used to it.

-FAIR

Fair II,

Dear Fair II,

Shoma oon Fair ghabli nisti aziz. As neveshtehatoon maloomeh, Fair I fellan allan shabat-eh, dorossteh?

The first Fair doesn’t even know Farsi and rejects Pollack’s sayings because Pollak doesn’t speak Farsi! What a sass! Trying to pretend what she ain’t is a distortion of the reality.

Fair I, says that Iran had to continue its path from 1975. That’s also distorting the reality and clueless. In 1975, Iran had contracts with Bell corp. and American industry for its military needs. After the revolution Carter imposed sanctions which are prolonged every year since then. The Iranian collaboration with Americans was finished. So without spare parts how do you expect that Iranians could have the possibility to manufacture American equipments bought under the Shah. That’s distorting the reality by searching to impose her non sense here.

She also vehemently refutes that Iranians were independent under the shah era. That’s so hilarious that raises a lot of questions about her real knowledge of the truth. Apart googling around and getting her information by just looking at the first page results, Fait I has to read more books, and better, goes back to Iran (if she can) and she’ll see the reality as it is. The fact that Iran was dependent to every single of its technologies is a FACT recounted by everyone who knows the country. Besides Pollack, they are IRANIAN specialists who relate this fact in their books. For example, Maziar Behrooz's “Rebels with a cause: The Failure of the Left in Iran » book also relates this FACT. Fait I, will also label him as a non-expert to Iranian affairs? Trying to hide the reality is DISTORTING it.

Because of continuing shortages of spare parts, the decision was taken in the late 1990s to develop a local aerospace industry to support the Iranian Air Force. Now, just after two decades, our engineers are able to build air crafts able to fly. The fact that they aren’t as advanced as western ones is not something you invent. How many countries you know which developed their aeronautic industry in less than 20 years?

That’s also all I say.

Anonym 7, Mokhlessim

Anonym7

Show ONE place where I said something inaccurate. It seems like your Felan Ja is on fire here...

-FAIR

Haji

Dear Haji

I have no problem with what you say above, it is a political discussion and you are entitled to your opinion. The reason I have no problem with your latest post is that you have not put forward any false facts. In that sense, dastet dard nakoneh.

I would just like to clarify and add to your comment my opinion about the "key to the technology" that you described. Yes, the US advisors had much control over the new technology they were delivering to Iran when it was fresh. (As is always the case, we have to start somewhere) But if they indeed had the full control as you suggest, NONE of Iran's aircraft (including your late relatives') would have got off the ground (which would be the case if all US advisors left Saudi Arabia tomorrow). There were no foreign bases in Iran, and Iran had control and ownership of its military. That doesn't mean US advisors did not have access to the equipment (especially the highly classified stuff like the F-14 avionics), but that is different from control). I really suggest to look at the following video, to get an idea of how Grumman and other US companies came into Iran, and together with Iranians built an impressive infrastructure to support and maintain the world's most advanced fighter aircraft at the time from nothing. And if you go to Iran today that infrastructure is still there:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVlrqv30o1k

Remember, you have to start somewhere. I can equally claim that IN THE BEGINNING of Iran's ballistic missile development in the 1980's when it started copying North Korean missiles, the North Koreans also had the "key to the technology" and could leave the next day and Iran would not have anything. The transfer of technology and know how has been a 25 YEAR process, and has been successful. So in my opinion, your comparison is not a fair one. To say Iran today is self sufficient today is a stretch. It is self sufficient in technologies that it started learning from others 25 years ago. To compare properly, one must ask, in 1979, was Iran self sufficient in technology that it started learning in 1954? The answer is yes, absolutely. But it was not satisfied with 1954 technology, so it continued the drive towards 1979 and later technology, the results of which you see today. They are just 2 different strategies, I happen to believe that the previous one was better. Had there been no revolution in Iran, the path we were on would have taken us to manufacturing contemporary designs, like South Korea or Brazil does today. And we would have held the key.

Please remember, I am purely discussing the strategy of a 3rd world country's technological development and modernization, not politics. That is an entirely different matter. I have no problem with Iran being aligned with the US back then because I happen to believe that Iran and the US are natural allies in the region and have many common interests. That is why even today as sworn enemies they are forced to work together in Afghanistan and in other cases. But that is just my opinion, and I don't intend to debate that here, in the thread called "New Iranian fighter plane"

My only problem is when people make inaccurate statements and then they become known as "truth"and "knowledge". For example when the Saegheh was announced, Iranian military officials claimed it is comparable to the F-18, which is ridiculous and anybody who knows anything about fighter aircraft just laughs:

//www.defenseindustrydaily.com/irans-new-saeg...

Yes, daste bacheha dard nakoneh, I am very proud of everthing they have accomplished despite all the hardships. But the best way to discredit their work is to make false claims publicly internationally, and make everything they have accomplished (in this case substantially modifying an F-5 airframe) as not credible and doubtful.

That is all I say.

-FAIR

Iran's satellite launch (to Hajminator)

Hajminator, this guy was saying all kinds of nonsense when Iran successfully launched its first satellite. FelAn jAieshan misoozad sefto sakht when they see any progress in Iran.
regards

Arya manesh

I have had no objection to anything you say about the IR regime. I actually agree with you 100%. However I am trying to make a different point.

Yes the IR has been disaster to Iran to say the least. Yes IR has ruled with iron fist against each and every Iranian , and will keep doing so till they are stopped.

My point however is directed to the young men and women, who despite the most horrible of conditions have worked their hearts out to come up with these designs. These people, despite all the red tape, which we know how notorious Iranian government is on that subject, despite lack of proper and suitable research facilities and etc etc etc, have built this airplane.

Allow me give you an example. You perhaps have heard of a person called Wernher von Braun. He is the man by all accounts was the father of US space program. In his 20s and early 30s, von Braun was the central figure in Germany's pre-war rocket development program, responsible for the design and realization of the deadly combat rocket during World War II. After the war, he and some of his rocket team were taken to the United States as part of the then-secret Operation Overcast.

Von Braun worked on the American intercontinental ballistic missile (ICBM) program before joining NASA, where he served as director of NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center and the chief architect of the Saturn V launch vehicle, the superbooster that propelled the Apollo spacecraft to the Moon.

My question is, Does he credit for work he has done, despite the fact that his design of V2 was responsible for 1000's of deaths during WWII?

The scientist in Iran who have made this one step possible deserve our utmost respect. These are the people, and not the IR who has made this possible.

Regards

-YT

آغا فر

شما که اینقدر میهن دوستی و خلبان فارسی میشناسی باید قاعدتاً فارسی ‫هم بلد باشی. بین هر کمنت پینگ−پنگی شما تقریباً نیم تا یک ساعت میگذشت، حالا ببیینیم چند مدت زمان میذاری جواب ‫بعدی را بدی. اگر ترجمه ابلاغی باشه معلوم میشه.

‫ببین عزیزم، ایران زمان شاه از نظر زندگی عالی بود. مردم رفاه داشتن، میرفتند خارج میومدند، همهء امکانات فراهم بود. ولی با وجود این نفت و آزادی خواهی مردم, که اول به روی کار آمدن مصدق انجامید. دولتهای غرب وحشت زده شدند، آمریکا, بعد از کودتائیکه منجر به بر کناری مصدق شد و شاه ‫برگشت, بر این صدد شد که ایران را زیر پنجهء خودش نگه دارد. درست که تکنولوژی داشتیم، ولی تکنولوژی بود که سوئیچش دست ایرانی نبود. همان شد که بعد از انقلاب کشور خوابید. اول بخاطر قتل عام درجه دارهایه مملکت بدست این آخوندها، بعد بخاطر رفتن متخصصین خارجی که سوئیچ دستگاها را با خودشون بردن (این اصتلاحست).

‫حالا بعد از انقلاب و اون زور و وحشت ما موندیمو و گرگ صفتهایه آخوند. متخصصین ایرانی با دست خودشون و وسائلی که براشون مهیاست توانستند ایران را خودکفا کنند, دستشون درد نکنه.

Your trusted expert, Ken Pollack

Since you are so interested in this character, maybe you should know that Ken Pollack wrote another book before the Persian Puzzle (which remains a puzzle for him and other people who think they know Iran by spending a lot of time in Washington). It was called "The Threatening Storm". Have you ever heard of this book?

If not, let me help you. It was written in 2002, right before the war. In it, he calls for the invasion of Iraq, and lays the case that by converting Iraq to a democracy, it will pave the way towards peace in the middle east. This "influential intellectual" in a "think tank" who is supposed to be an expert only supported such a disastrous decision to invade Iraq with such a clueless perspective- the notion that you can bring democracy to a country with your army. Not to mention that it is a gross violation of international law and the UN charter to invade a member nation with no provocation. And furthermore, he was an analyst in the CIA, you know, the people who really understood well what was going on in Iraq before 2003. They understood it so well that GW gave their director the "medal of freedom". After hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis, 4000 dead Americans, millions of displaced Iraqis (more than all the Palestinians ever displaced) and the strenghtening and solidification of the Islamic Republic in Tehran and the bankrupting of the US and the world economy. What does this "expert" have to say today? OOPS? What a sick joke.

This is the nature of self proclaimed experts like Ken Pollack. The sad thing is that Iranians living here that know more about their own country than this person ever will, actually look to this person's books to learn about their own country. A person who knows no Farsi, has never spent a day of his life in Iran, and is so clueless about the middle east that he could recommend such a blunder as a policy, has nothing to teach me about my country, Iran. And the USA itself would be in a much better position in the region if its "intellectuals" and "experts" on the middle east actually knew what they were talking about. Another disaster for an expert is Anthony Cordesman, the military "expert", but I don't want to distort the "reality" that is manufactured by such an "expert" with my nitpicking, so I will stop here. Let such people keep writing nonsense so people like Haji can just blindly read what they say and repeat it here, claiming that this is "known by everybody". Of course, that would not be rewriting history, would it.

-FAIR

Show ONE PLACE

that I distorted reality. Show me ONE instance of something I said that was not true.

In the meantime, you FALSELY claim that Iranian planes were "glued to the ground" in order to make the case that Iran was a dependent nation. I called you on that and you didn't like that. You called it "nitpicking". Well TOUGH.

Furthermore, I NEVER made fun of anybody who sacrificed for their country, including your late relative. I made fun of YOU who made a false claim that Iranian planes were grounded, insisted that it was true without bringing any facts, while acknowledging that your own relative who was a pilot flew for his country in one of those very "glued to the ground" planes. You don't even see how ridiculous you sound do you. And you then have the gall to use the word reality (from which you are obviously detached at this point) and ridicule me and then cry about "respect". Respect people and their opinions before you demand respect yourself.

I didn't find myself short of anything, or cut short, what are you talking about. You are the one who failed time and time again when just throwing hot air out, like "every plane Iran sent on the second wave to Iraq were shot down". Who told you such rubbish, Ken Pollack? You say what "people know and you can find in every book around"? How many books have you read on the Iran Iraq war and which of them would you consider reliable? So far all you have said is heresay which nobody knows, and you have helped me prove it yourself.

I challenge you openly and publicly once again, show ONE PLACE that I distort reality. ONE. Can you?

I didn't think so.

And don't worry about my avatar, it is safe and sound here. Because I don't just make stuff up and throw hot air out, and then get upset at people if they actually ask where did it come from.  I can actually back up every word I say.

-FAIR

Cool

Nothing better than a music, do you know Serge Gainsbourg?

I love u too but i am not

I love u too but i am not who you think. Just calm down.

By the way

I don't understand how can you refute Pollack who was considered as a specialist of Iran and Irak in CIA?

My message

get tripled, sorry

Yes,

That's exactly what I am saying. You can not make fool of the dead and wait people applaud.

Please calm down and do not

Please calm down and do not slander any one. Please respect and be respected.

Stop distorting the reality

Your assertions are variable geometry. You cut short when you have to and stand ferociously on your nit-picking stuff when you think you can go on. Stop paraphrasing me at each time by telling me what I said before.

I’m not historian to change or write History you neither. I say what all people here know and that you can find in every book written by specialists around. In contrast, what you are trying to do is to distort the reality.

It’s funny that when you find yourself short, there are some anonymous comments which hang from your noise. I just know one person who did this before and she got her first avatar wiped from this site. Hein, you remind me someone.

Look who is talking about respect

You can't even stand behind your own claim, attack the person who asks you to do so, and then have the gall to use the word respect.

If you bother to read before you blab, you will notice that I also said Iranians had noboogh. But Iranians had more than noboogh. They had training and expertise. No matter how smart you are, you don't just get these things (how to fly and maintain the most advanced machines in the world) from thin air. So the technology was transferred into the country by 1979, and that (by your own admission) proves you were wrong when you said the planes were "glued to the ground". A dependent nation does not acquire technology and know how, it permanently hires foreigners to do the job, like is the case in Saudi Arabia, which you incorrectly compared to Iran back then, so stop rewriting history. Did your pilot relative stop flying after the Americans left? No. End of story and enough said.

I actually don't care one bit what you think, you can't even have a coherent discussion with somebody and make a point and substantiate it. The only reason I respond to you is I will not tolerate the rewriting of history.

And Captain, nobody here is minimizing the accomplishments of our engineers and scientists, I have said that many times. But the Saegheh is not an Iranian built aircraft, it is an Iranian modification to an American built aircraft. This is simple truth.

-FAIR

Ok captain. You made me

Ok captain. You made me think hard but then again I thought if I was born for Germany during Hilter's era and if I was a true human being, would I be happy to see the Germa govt can make Gas chambers? When you have a theocracy in Iran which calls the country "Republic of Islam" and hates the name Iran and Iranians, rapes young Iranian political prisoner teenage girls prior to their executions. A theocracy that has killed hundreds of thousands of Iranian communists, nationalists and others, a government that can not even tolerate other religions i,e the bahai's should leave. Our youth should think of how to kick the entity of Islamic Republic first. A terrorist govt such as the Republic of Islam can not be trusted to have anything.

Ba’d as inhameh YOU YOU keifet kook shod?

YOU are still disrespectful and that shows your entire ignorance.

Yes Iranians, despite the sabotage of their air crafts were able to bring them back to the airs and use them to defend themselves. That proved MY point that Iranians have Noboogh, if you got at least this thing after all these ping-pong comments, I’m glad for you. After sanctions imposed by Carter, Iranians had to disentangle and that is exactly what they did. If you don’t like the path they took. Write a letter to engineers in Iran giving your points that they had to begin from 1975. But between us, they won’t care.

p.s. You saw the text written in italic just after the link, that meant copy-past,

Capt’ne: brilliant thoughts

My Thoughts

Disliking the regime and all its criminal actions is one thing, belittling Iranians, and people , who despite all the hardship and roadblocks accomplish hard tasks for the nation is another.

One can hate the regime all they want. As a matter of fact it is very hard to find anyone in this site who is really a supporter of the regime of IR. Nevertheless, some find it their life long goal to put down and belittle their countrymen.

This characteristic, I regret to say, is rather unique to us Iranians. Any other nation you visit, they may disagree with their government, but never take an stand on demonizing their own countrymen and people who work hard to achieve impossible.

Take this one example of fighter jet. Yes, it is a crude example when compared to countries such as USA. Yes it is in parts borrowed from older designs and such. BUT for a nation which has little or no heavy industry, and which is just stepping to the modern world, this is quite an achievement.

Hate IR to your last breath, work to overthrow it with all your might but do not belittle the hard work and ingenuity of young engineers, technicians, designers who, with all the limited resources have made this one step possible.

This Airplane is NOT built by IR, IT IS BUILT by our nation. Take pride in your youth and minds who built it, and not in your government. That is my friends whats called real patriotism.

-YT

so what? Now a terrorist

so what? Now a terrorist government that can not tolerated it's own people, A Government that is ashamed of the name Iran and calls the country "Republic Of Islam" can build Fighter Jets?

You just proved my points..

...thank you very much.

So you acknowledge that your relative pilot (and hundreds of others) were flying those "glued to the ground" planes that the puppet dependent Shah had bought and were not usable anymore. You just acknowledged that it was Iranians, NOT Americans, who used them to stop the invasion in its tracks, something even IRI TV acknowledged:

//iranian.com/main/singlepage/2007/operat...
//www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=52115&section...

It is YOU who disrespect these peoples' service to our country when you falsely claim that their force was fully dependent on the US and they were all grounded. And also, you are absolutely wrong about all of them being shot down in the second wave, Iran was attacking Baghdad from the air for months after the war began. So tell me, were American advisors flying those missions? Or were American advisors repairing those airplanes in 1980? Those were the most advanced airplanes in the world at the time, even Nato and Israel did not have some of them. How did that happen if we were totally dependent on Americans for their knowledge?

And regarding Ken Pollack, just read the biography you cut and pasted. Where did this person learn about Iran and the middle east? In Washington? Boston or Cambridge? Yes, I read books (including Pollack's) but I rather pay attention to people who actually know something useful about what they are talking about. Try Robert Fisk, who actually spent 40 years in the middle east, including Iran, and speaks Arabic. His expertise is way more than rookies like Pollack who became self proclaimed experts on Iran in some basement in Virginia.

So in fact, it is YOU who must wake up, I am glad the record is straight now that you have clearly contradicted yourself.

-FAIR

That's no decency at all

If you don’t base your claims on what people write in books, where then you get your facts? You find them yourself by traveling around ME? Or, you just disagree with Pollack because he says what everyone knows about the dependency of Iran to the US under the Shah era? Here Pollak’s biography

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenneth_Pollack

Kenneth Michael Pollack, PhD (born 1966), is a noted former CIA intelligence analyst and expert on Middle East politics and military affairs. He has served on the National Security Council staff and has written several articles and books on international relations.
Pollack obtained a BA from Yale University, in 1988, and went on to earn a PhD from MIT in 1996. He has served in a variety of roles in government. From 1988 until 1995, he was analyst on Iraqi and Iranian military issues for the Central Intelligence Agency. He spent a year as Director for Near East and South Asian Affairs with the United States National Security Council. In 1999, he rejoined the NSC as the Director for Persian Gulf Affairs. He also served two stints as a professor with the National Defense University.

Hey, wake up.

I really ask myself if you can be an Iranian. I’ve never heard a patriot making fun of people who gave their lives in order that they sit on their sofas and write bullshits against values these people defended. No, my relative who died didn’t drive a truck. He was in the second wave of air offensives that hit Baghdad at the early days of the war. Iraqis, were surprised at such air strikes perhaps they expected that Iranian planes couldn’t fly, Hein? At the first strike, all planes returned back but the surprise effect didn’t work the second time. And, mostly all planes were shut down. 10 years after the end of the war, when you go and see that there were wholes made by bullets on the skulls of these valorous people, suggesting that they were killed after their crush and in which situation you don’t know. You cannot seat and hear nit-pickers telling anything. So be more decent. You’re looking for people tolerating your purposes and you make fun of the dead, how do you call yourself?

Yes I also prefer the time under the Shah, back in 1975. But a revolution passed there, you want facts about that? Now we live in 2009 and Shah is gone. Iranians make planes, cars, satellites, ... with what they have and that’s great.

That's not an answer at all..

yes, what the heck does that mean "we are awake" and people blog a lot? When this discussion was about whether Saegheh is a home built fighter or not, not about how many bloggers Iran has or the political tendencies of its population.

You made a claim about Iranian planes being "glued to the ground" as an example of how dependent we were. I asked you to back that up. You said we are "awake now". It is clear that you have no ground to stand on.

Once again, I have not or will not ever minimize anybody's accomplishments, I am just debunking lies and myths, like "planes glued to the ground". I guess your relative who was a pilot died driving a truck then? Stop twisting things around and weaseling out of actually standing behind what you claimed earlier. If you can't handle the truth, don't have these discussions with people. Furthermore, many countries could have been the 9th nation to launch a satellite into space but chose not to. Because they don't need to, and have other priorities. The general statements you make like "These achievements, though not comparable yet to the western standards, are the signs that they will be continued in the future" could equally have been said in 1975 or in many other contexts. They add nothing to the discussion, and they do nothing to help you substantiate your previous false claims.

Assertions like Iran being dependent on the US or a client state of the US can easily matched by claims that Iran today is dependent on Russia and China. No matter how "awake" (whatever the hell that means) you claim our country has become.

And lastly, I am glad you agree that facts are important, even though you have yet to provide any to back up your statements. But me saying that as a technologically developing country, I would prefer the path we were on in 1975 to the one we are on now, and that one is not inherently more or less "independent" of foreigners than the other is my *opinion*, not a fact or a claim, let alone an empty one. If you want an "awake nation", the first step is to tolerate other people's opinions, and respect their right to ask you to back up a statement you make with facts. It is called debate and transparency. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I just prefer to base mine on facts, not hot air or bravado or empty patriotism, or worse- what other people claim as opinions in their books. Especially self proclaimed "experts" like Ken Pollack of the Brookings Institution. What does this man know about Iran? And where does his interests lie? How much time has he actually spent in the middle east? Can he even find his way around a middle eastern capital without a staff of translators and private security contractors and a secure satellite phone? If the USA had real "experts" on the middle east, they would not have had the screwups they have had for decades, including 1953, 1979, and today.

Think for yourself, and rely on facts. And if you cannot answer people don't call them senile or change the subject. It is actually pretty pathetic.

-FAIR

All these damn pesky nit-pickers!!

God damit, they make me so angry. Always putting Iran down, thsoe haters.

So what if Iran is using copycat 2nd rate Chinese and North Korean technology to build jet fighters and Rockets?? At least it's doing it, right?? Ha? Ha?

If Iran carries on like this, hopefully one day we will have a society as technologically advanced as North Korea. And I, for one, will drink (a non-alcoholic drink) to that.

As for you haters, you can stay in your fancy, comfortable American pad throwing verbal stones at the achievements of the great people back home. If you had any decency you would go back to Iran and post your views from there. You should learn from those of us who have the guts to live in the US and criticize this damn war-mongering, capitalist, colonizing, exploitative, bullying,cocaine snorting and porn-infested cesspool.

Early senility?

You asked You make general statements like "we were asleep" and "now we are awake". What the heck does that mean? And when you get your response, you say that it’s irrelevant and what was that to do with the discussion!! LOL, Either khodeto be khariat mizani or you have memory fails. It has all to do with the subject: a nation which is awakened is by definition composed of people who know who they are and what they want, And that in different levels from its bloggers … to its scientists.

You can not deny that after the overthrown of Mussadegh, the US turned Iran into a client state where the country was dependent on its every single technology. Document yourself before denying vehemently the truth. You can start from THE PERSIAN PUZZLE , The Conflict Between Iran and America. by K. Pollack. The fact that the country under the Shah was dependent to the US was something that the Shah himself searched to avoid at the end.

Otherwise, I don’t know what you are searching by minimizing the scientific achievements of Iranian specialists. The satellite Omid, though small, is a big step for us. I know more than one country which would like to be the 9th nation able to send a satellite into space. These achievements, though not comparable yet to the western standards, are the signs that they will be continued in the future. And I hope that one day they will become comparable of their western counterparts.

Yes facts are important so try to hang on it, rather that living in a dream world like we should continue from where we can not be never again, i.e. 1975. That is an empty claim.

A piece of art...

This fighter jet is incredible. The plane is made of light-weight recycled "shiah mashghi".

This is how it operates: A mulla sits in the cockpit and as soon as he starts reading Qoran, the jet starts rolling. When mulla says "Ya Emam Zaman", the plane takes off at twice the speed of light.

The plane is fully armed with 72 virgins. Anytime an enemy plane is engaged, the Mulla in the cockpit screams: "Ya Hazrat Abbas", and as a result two of the virgins are thrown at the enemy, each coming out of a wing of the plane. The virgins would overwhelm the enemy by their ugliness.

And the rest is secret.

And the face of Emam is on the moon.

Payandeh Iran.

Javid shah!

Ahh... the pesty nitpickers

How inconvenient, they actually expect people to make true statements,,, The NERVE!:) 

What does ANY of this have to do with industrial dependence of a country? That people blog or don't blog? Of course young people in Iran are PISSED OFF and given the opportunity they will say a lot. What does any of that have to do with the discussion here, which is about technological dependence on other countries???

This article and discussion was not about satellites, it started with the notion that Saegheh is a HOMEBUILT fighter aircraft. It is not. That is a lie and an exaggeration. Somehow you took it to blogging and Canard Enchaine...and we are awake and we used to be asleep.....???

Your claim that Iranian specialists waited for some technician from the US to tell them what to do is not fair at all. Your aunt may have seen individual incidents, but in general, Iranians always wanted to learn and master what they got. If that were not the case no single aircraft in Iran would be flying today and we would have stopped making cars decades ago and our universities would have stopped functioning long ago. Iran Air would have stopped flying once the Americans left. And no refinery would be working today, etc. etc.. So yes, your extrapolating something your aunt said about her office to an entire country's situation is HOT AIR.

As far as knowledge to assemble Chinese pieces, I can equally claim that Iranians had knowledge to overhaul 747's and assemble much better products back then too, like electronics components, helicopters, refineries, chemical plants,etc , knowledge is knowledge. Back then Iranians also transferred technology, not just goods, into their country. And I never talked about the satellite, I was talking about the false claim that Saegheh is a homemade fighter plane. You bringing up the satellite out of nowhere may not be hot air, but it is changing the subject and is irrelevant. Besides, if you think that these days building a small satellite that just radios signals back to earth is a big deal, I suggest you go to:

//www.hobbyspace.com/SatBuilding/index.html

And yes, facts are important, believe it or not. When you say we were dependent on the US because our planes were glued to the ground after the Americans left, you are REWRITING HISTORY. This is just perpetuating the MYTH that we are more independent technologically today than we were in 1975.

It seems you will do anything to weasel out of backing your empty claim. What is your next diversion going to be?:)

-FAIR