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'Anyhow the winner of this quiz is declared and you lost Rosie'

Ah, but I won the statue part.

;oP

More on the seeds and testicles and village later.

I don't get it

I don't know what you don't get Rosie. It wasn't a deep philosophical thought. But if you don't get the language part, here is how it goes;

Tokhm means seed. But it also means testicle. The expression 'bé tokhmam' uses the second meaning and it's basically 'I don't give a damn', as rude as it could be in U.S fifties.

As a kid, I was visiting my ancestral village. A very old lady came to me and said 'you don't need to tell me who you are. I recognize the tokhm of your grandfather'.

So in my amusement and wondering how this lady recognized my grandfather's testicles, I learned that the word can be used in its literal meaning too even when referred to a male. Our literature is full of 'tokhm' with its literal meaning. But it used to be in common spoken language too.

Anyhow the winner of this quiz is declared and you lost Rosie. Any complaint will be deleted. But I'm still muting E pur si muove!

Ben,

There is also 'bé tokhmé chshmam'. You get the antonym by removing 'chashm'... 'bé tokhmam'.

I don't get it.

Skeptica Iranica's fraudulent Neo-colonialist exemplification

from rosiepedia.com:

Ah, people on the...shore, joyfully singing.

Ari, you took a poem in praise of the pleasure loving Persians and, by calling it a 'critique,' imposed a Protestant Work Ethic interpretatinn on what is essentially a panegyric.

Look, Ari, you can try to fool other people but you can't fool me. I know what you're doing. You're trying to deflect the readers'' attention from my exposing to Monda that you suffer from intermittent cerebral information spillage.

_______________

Jahanshah,

That's a reconstruction of my post in reply to Ari's to me called 'Rosepedia's Orientalist etymologies'. The last line of mine refers to one below where I told Ari 'You're too smart. Your brain is so packed that sometimes things must fall out' when he made a mistake with a literary term.

FOUR of my posts were flagged for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON. NONE. . And you HAD to know that. Why was my post deleted? If Ari and Ben kept the joke rolling because it was a good JOKE, why, Jahanshah?

Ghadamat rooye cheshm..

Persians used to have huge eyes.

There is also 'bé tokhmé chshmam'. You get the antonym by removing 'chashm'... 'bé tokhmam'.

And another thing,

'To them sailors' "aye-aye" probably sounded more like a bark than a word'. 

Well, that's why they call them sea dogs.

You see, I TOLD you it comes from the sailors.

Oh, no,

traders always develop a common rudimentary language. And anyway it's not just the illiterate locals, it's the literate merchants, record keeping and all. I still think it comes from the 17th century sailors.

Well anyway, what about this one? I just found it googling:

Ghadamat rooye cheshm..

You step on my eyes? You gotta be kidding. What's with this taarof of yours?

Chashm

The word "Chashm" has no single, known origin. The full phrase is "Be Rooye Chashm" which means "I'll value it more than my eyes" and it's been a Persian language compliment since Farsi was created and since brown-nosing for the rich, the monarchs, the bosses and all upper class became customary in Persian culture.

It's definitely not from 17th century British sailor's "aye-aye" since the illiterate local Persians didn't know English to know the meaning of Eye or mistake Eye for "Yes Sir." To them sailors' "aye-aye" probably sounded more like a bark than a word. 

chashm Rosie jan,

will chill out.  shab bakhair.

?????!!!! Why on earth...

did Red Wine delete his post????

Here's the original comment I wrote to Ari that you're.

complaining about.

'You are too smart. Sometimes your brain must get too packed and things fall out of it.' 

The next time it appeared in the guise of my 'exposing' to the readers that you suffer from intermittent cerebral informaton spillage.

These things are known as jokes.

Chill out.  :op

Just To Add To The Confusion :)

از لغتنامه دهخدا

بچشم

Anahid jan, merci be khodet

...for attempting to answer my question. 

Monda jan, Thanks for your blog.

Dear Monda, thanks for your blog. I second your comment about Ari's great knowledge and I also second the rest of your comment about certain comment being bogus.

Rosie,

I did not know the answer and learned from you guys.  Thanks for your comments.

Tradition has it that JJ declares the winner, right?

Thank You Ari...

In my precious comment, I meant to let Rosie know that accusing you of brain spillage is bogus.  I meant to imply that You are one of the most down to earth people on this site, in spite of your vast knowledge in arts (including and not limited to literature) and science. Perhaps it didn't come out right. The 4 year old just wanted the laptop back to resume his computer game.  His parents  have read many articles and blogs by you on IC, so I leave it to them to educate their child on various etymologies. 

To top it off, I admire your sense of humor.

Thanks Monda...

Ari jan va Rosie khanom آدم‌ بر ساحل نشسته

this cute 4 yr old wants his laptop back, can't do anything but appreciate your responses on a brief inquiry. 

I only attested the fact that Ari is one of the most logically grounded here on IC.  vassallam. ethemeology bilmiram.

Rosie

look like a phallus, or is it my imagination

Maybe the fake one you bought from a sex shop. But that's an idea... Chashm. 

'Ben Ross, you are taking sides with a known practioner of

optical and ocular fallacies--the ocular kind being pretty serious'.

You're not gonna believe this, but for my next trick, before I saw both of your last posts, I was planning on saying:

Sorry  to change the subject, but does that picture of the statue on the home page look like a phallus, or is it my imagination?

Well, there, I guess I've said it, haven't I?

Oh well

In my alternate reality I can go on and on and on. For example, that gesture means 'I will not look BEYOND what you are saying'. It means I obey, I respect and I won't betray you. So my version is not quite Rosie's. It's not 'looking' to it.

How I came up with this?... I saw that gesture! ---cheater----:-)

Besides, the correlation between Persian sailor 'Aye' and British 'Eye' is too phonetic to be digestible. I don't know about sailors, but on the land, for getting the attention of someone from distance it's seldom 'Aye'. It's 'O-Hooyye' or 'Aa-Haayye'. 'Aye' is for lesser distance... and also the literary form.

How I came up with this one? I heard that too!

benross

Here is my take

Here is my take (with no knowledge whatsoever):

I guess Rosie got it mostly right. Except Chashm is not coming from Eye, it's the other way around. And also, it is originally a gesture not a verbalized one. You put your right hand in front of your right eye -looking down- with your head slightly bending down. This is a gesture of obedience, taking an order from a superior and showing respect. The full verbalized one is 'be rooyé chashm' (which is about the hand held on the eye). 'Chashm' is the short version.

Rosiepedia's orientalist etymology

See for example the following well known verse fragment which begins with "aye"

آی آدم‌ها که بر ساحل نشسته شاد و خندانید

Here, in the middle of a fierce storm, a member of the Iranian crew finds the leisure to compose a critique of those who sit blithely on the shores. 

Monda,

there is no answer or winner up. How did you know?  And would you or someone else mind explaining the answer to me? The first one I posted I actually did have to lsearch for, btw. It was a real answer--attempt--and I gave the source. And it wasn't all that easy to find.

The statue was easier.

btw Rosie jan,

i find zero probability in Ari's brains ever being de-contained by his head. my 2 cents.

I learned more than intended, Thank you!

Although I will still follow Ari and Rosie's euphemistic debate. And anyone else's thoughts here.

I had a hunch it had to do with those Qajari darbaris... couldn't figure out how it went from ChEshm to ChAsm.

Thank you too JJ. 

Alternate etymology

source: rosiepedia.com

When the first English sailors arrived in Bandar Abbas, then Gomroon (Persian) and Combu (English), at the beginning of the 17th century, the Persian traders noticed that the sailors would respond to the captain's orders with 'Aye aye''. Having picked up a little English as a trade language, they thought it meant 'cheshm' (eye), and this belief was reinforced by the fact that when the sailors would say 'Aye, aye'', they would salute, putting their hand just above their right eye. The Persians (Iranians) began to imitate this among themselves but without the salute. Thus the usage of 'cheshm' ('chashm') to express affirmation was born, first as 'Cheshm, cheshm', then shortened to 'cheshm' in 1706., although this date is disputed.

It is interesting to note (ARI), that e older sailors were sometimes referred to as 'old salts'.

Also a polite ok in response to an elderly's request.

When a family elder asks me to do something like take your aunt to doctor or please bring some tea, I always respond with Chashm, chashm.

I also commented that the statue is a good logo of sorts.  Imagine if we simply said ok to those we argue with a lot yet the argument is about nothing of substance.  That'd certainly make the other person feel more calm and think of having persuaded the person so no more arguing back and forth is needed.  Chasm! Anything else?! Chashm that too!  You want that one too?! No peroblem, chashm! 

Everything is sacred