INTOLERANCE
به زبان فارسی
PICTORY
LATEST MUSIC
SEARCH
Islam's Kettle Calling Christianity's Teapot Black
31-Aug-2010
I recently watched a vlog by Reza Aslan on the intolerance of the west towards Islam. I hear Reza's point but have to beg to differ with him on the real issue as I see it. Also I find it hard to take him seriously on any of his well put arguments, while he hangs a painting of a woman wearing the most inarguably oppressive symbol of Islam, the chador, on his condo wall.
Dude, I'm sorry, you're never going to sell Islam if you don't ditch the chador.
Islam cannot demand to be accepted by a predominantly Christian society such as the US, when Islam itself is so full of inconsistencies, isn't organized, tolerant, or even regionally relevant.
Reza Aslan is surprised at the US (and Europe) for being intolerant to a new religion? Are you serious? Did you not read the history of this country? Not only have Jews been intolerated, but the same goes for Catholics too! JFK was the first Catholic president, and people thought he would never get elected! Mitt Romney lost the presidency because he was Mormon!
Now you think bringing in a bizarre prayer ritual accompanied by loud bellowing droning wails of guttoral phlegm-tastic sounds coming from public loudspeakers six times a day is a right?
You simply can't do that, even in today's America! You especially can't do that in Tennessee! And the reason you can't do that in the US is not because the US is intolerant. The reason you can't do that in the US today, is because a lot of Islam is intolerant, AND Islam as practiced even commonly, makes absolutely no sense to Americans and the American way of life. And Americans like their way of life and if Islam wants to change it, they kind of don't want to.
Today's Islam in comparison to the sheer organization and logical formality of Christianity is like a child throwing a tantrum demanding to be given a PhD when it can't even speak properly yet, never mind read.
Islam needs reformation. Desperately. It needs to correct all the wrong things with it. It is not a perfect religion (as it continually claims) and has many obvious flaws and broken and counter intuitive logic points that it isn't even possible for it to be taken seriously by Western Christianity, never mind Joe-SixPack or the Plumber.
Need examples?
Besides bacon and shellfish being haram when in fact they are completely halal technically and logically speaking? Why is pork and shellfish halal? Because I actually won't die if I eat them.
Too hard to get your head around pork logic?
OK then, look no further than women's rights. According to Islam, or actually depending on which hadith you buy into, which favorite mullah you follow blindly and unquestioningly, or which surah you choose to reference, the primary defense of a condemned, fallen, or adulterous woman who can be falsely accused by her husband and a friend who merely have to testify her sin against her, is for her to simply deny the charges. She can totally walk away without proving her innocence. That's what the good book says she can do to get out of it.
So explain how the same women in today's supposedly enlightened Islam, accused the same way are utterly denied what the Koran prescribes? And how they are not only frequently stoned, but often executed simply by the decree of an unauthorized mullah, and worse, not given even a civil trial in which to prove innocence. And what about being innocent until proven guilty? This is the kind of outrage that an Islam that conveniently chooses to not explain itself, inspires today.
In the 21st century, are we to abide by Islamic or sharia laws simply and blindly? Especially if they are completely counter to the evolution of civil laws we have enacted in the West?
If Islam is completely wrong, as the numerous cases of stoned, killed, and imprisoned women attest to, should we accept abidance to Islam or even sharia law? All because an undemocratic, unrealistic, un-free, unlicensed and unauthorized mullah says we should?
In the West today, after 2000 years of solid Christendom, I can believe in Jesus and the Pope, I can be Catholic, I can go to church every Sunday, I can eat pork on Friday, wash it down with a tasty alcoholic beverage of my choice, and go and sleep with my neighbor's wife, causing her to become pregnant and have an abortion and never once worry about being arrested, tried or killed for it.
Is doing that a good thing? Of course not. Is it a mortal sin? Debatably. Does the Church have the right to impose ANY kind of sentence on me? NO. And if in my drunken stupor I tell Father O'Flaherty to f**k off, I don't have to worry one bit that his "choirboys" will slit my throat on my way home from the parish.
The fear that Islam needs to assure everyone of, is that it will be content with being merely a mortal, moral, option. That when a mullah is told to f**k off, he will be content to just take it. Nothing more, not a dominant, required, brutally judgmental overseer on all parts of daily life. Because that is exactly what Islam embodies today.
Until women choose to wear the hejab occasionally to the mosque on Friday prayer (which will have to be moved to Saturdays or Sundays by the way) as a symbolic "veil of purity", rather than because it's the common law, Islam will be just another example of the brutal, intolerant, racist, sexist, unfair, dictatorial, Spanish Inquisition that ruled the world for 900 years until it went out of fashion and collapsed under it's own crimes.
Like Islam is unfortunately now, then too, various factions of Christianity took it upon themselves to determine what "Believer" meant, doling out wildly differing tests of faith and the all too often brutal and fatal punishments accordingly.
The question that needs to be asked (and actually answered by Islam once) is, if Islam wants to be valid in the West, why is it that the (many) brutally oppressive nations who deny their citizens the most basic freedoms, human, and civil rights, proudly call themselves Moslem, and would immediately and violently deny this very same request for a church or (god forbid!) synagogue to be placed at or near Mecca.
For the ultimate inconsistent message of Islam, look no further than the the charlatan posing as the US administration's enlightened foil for Islamic tolerance, Raouf. A Sufi Imam? Sufis are traditionally looked upon with disdain and incredulity in Islam. Are we to now believe that there is a new official sect in Islam called Sufi Islam? Is it sanctioned by Islam proper? Because I did not get the memo. Because there isn't one. Claiming to be a Sufi Imam is like claiming to be a Jewish Gestapo Officer. Technically it's possible, but realistically it's highly irregular.
In the end (is there an end to this debate?), the onus is not upon the West to allow what is proving itself more and more and more than often to be a very very very "crazy radical Islam", into the Cool Club. But for Islam to clean its act up, stop being so weird and brutal on the simplest things like equal rights, prayer technique, food, and the whole what-to-do-about-the-infidel thing.
But proof of just how blind Islam is to it's own indiscreet oppressions, would be for some Christian or Jewish group to apply to set up a YMCA in Mecca.
But that will never happen will it? Even though the bones that the seas of haji-wannabes circle around, desperate for the prestige, braggart, and show-off points you get for completing the haj, even though those are the very bones of Abraham, the original founder and basis of the Jewish and Christian religions, as a Jew or a Christian, or as a non-Moslem, you are merely forbidden to attend.
And that is the definition of intolerance.
| Recently by bahmani | Comments | Date |
|---|---|---|
| Argo Reform Yourself! | - | Oct 28, 2012 |
| US Iranians Should Vote Locally, Nationally we're moot. | 9 | Oct 28, 2012 |
| Mirkarimi Win Bittersweet for Iranian-Americans | 5 | Oct 10, 2012 |
RECENT COMMENTS
IRANIANS OF THE DAY
| Person | About | Day |
|---|---|---|
| نسرین ستوده: زندانی روز | Dec 04 | |
| Saeed Malekpour: Prisoner of the day | Lawyer says death sentence suspended | Dec 03 |
| Majid Tavakoli: Prisoner of the day | Iterview with mother | Dec 02 |
| احسان نراقی: جامعه شناس و نویسنده ۱۳۰۵-۱۳۹۱ | Dec 02 | |
| Nasrin Sotoudeh: Prisoner of the day | 46 days on hunger strike | Dec 01 |
| Nasrin Sotoudeh: Graffiti | In Barcelona | Nov 30 |
| گوهر عشقی: مادر ستار بهشتی | Nov 30 | |
| Abdollah Momeni: Prisoner of the day | Activist denied leave and family visits for 1.5 years | Nov 30 |
| محمد کلالی: یکی از حمله کنندگان به سفارت ایران در برلین | Nov 29 | |
| Habibollah Golparipour: Prisoner of the day | Kurdish Activist on Death Row | Nov 28 |
I Am
by Aryana-Vaeja on Sun Sep 05, 2010 08:10 PM PDT:-)
Thanks xoxox
-
May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer
Faryam
by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on Sun Sep 05, 2010 08:04 PM PDTI don't know if Aryana is Nur or not. But I do know that your attacks are out of line. This thread is about intolerance of Islam. Not about Bahai and you are trying to divert it to be.
As Aryana said it is perfectly reasonable to read all sites to form an opinion. Faryam by acting the way you do you are doing great harm to your own image.
Now for a very well written criticism of both Islam and Bahai read Ahmad Kasravi. Too bad both have followers who show remarkable intolerance of opposing view points.
Let us remain focused on the discussion and not divert it into something it was not meant. What is a point of briging your personal vandetta into this.
Who said I am anything but
by Aryana-Vaeja on Sun Sep 05, 2010 04:07 PM PDTTake a chill pill yourself and stop projecting your own state on other people, or contribute to the discussion rather than deflecting to hashiye (margins) as you Bahais do so well given that always discussions get personalized at your hands when matters get sensitive. Do you have anything to say of substance that says anything beyond ad hominem or no?
-
May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer
Calm down fellow
by Reality-Bites on Sun Sep 05, 2010 04:04 PM PDTIt was just an observation, which I only mentioned because of your complaint that the Bahais here take every opportunity to talk about their beliefs. I felt it had a touch of irony about it.
Not bothered one way or the other.
Good.
by Aryana-Vaeja on Sun Sep 05, 2010 03:55 PM PDTSomeone needs to be the balancing agent for all the false propaganda these people post on this site. What of it?
-
May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer
Aryana-Vaeja
by Reality-Bites on Sun Sep 05, 2010 03:51 PM PDTYou say:
The thread got derailed no thanks to the Baha'is who will take every opportunity that arises under any circumstance or discussion with the slightest religious overtone (let alone an overt one) to prosletyze their creed...
Well, if you say so, and admittedly I don't know much about the Bahais (except a Bahai neighbor who was hanged in Iran back in the 80s), but I do know that YOU talk more about the Bahais than anyone else on this site, including the Bahais!
Islam isn't the only intolerant party here
by Aryana-Vaeja on Sun Sep 05, 2010 02:24 PM PDTThe thread got derailed no thanks to the Baha'is who will take every opportunity that arises under any circumstance or discussion with the slightest religious overtone (let alone an overt one) to prosletyze their creed and try to convince everyone in such discussion (peripheral or immediate) that their's is better than everybody elses and that everybody must recognize this on their say-so immediately and without question or else. That is how and why this specific discussion (and many others like it) got derailed.QED
-
May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer
Islam's Intolerance
by Monda on Sun Sep 05, 2010 08:56 AM PDTDear Bahmani, your piece has very well articulated the point, with valid references to other institutionalized religions. Thank you.
(Too bad the thread got derailed to useless material)
waters
by Doctor X on Thu Sep 02, 2010 11:02 PM PDTOkay moosh mooshi. Whatever say. Now go to bed. Nighty night.
faryarm and waters
by Dariush A on Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:34 PM PDTAs you advised, I have been reading more about your so called religion. The more I read, the more I realize what you got is a mess not a religion, but I am still reading.
//www.sectsofbahais.com/
Faryar, I think you came up with the wrong link.
by Rosie. on Thu Sep 02, 2010 09:49 PM PDTI think this is the one you were looking for.
//wahidazal.blogspot.com/
But for anyone who may be reading who is unaware of the problem and why we are reacting this way, I think it should suffice to say that on the first blog Nur wrote when he came here (in his first incarnation), he wouldn't stop accusing the owner of being in cahoots with the Bahai and Asia Society (because they advertise here) in a plot to take over the world. Having said that, I will also say again here to you Nur, as I just did on Faryar's blog, that I am not going to respond to another thing you write to or about me (or for that matter anyone else because it only feeds your ego to spur you on, and I would encourage others btw to follow suit).
Doctor X, both
by Waters on Thu Sep 02, 2010 09:25 PM PDTif that was your question then I gave you my answer.
"What does one need to be high on? ha?"
Aryana-Wahid Azal COMETH ! AGAIN ?
by faryarm on Thu Sep 02, 2010 10:10 PM PDTVerily I Am the Holy Pre-Eternal and the Living Light!
Wahid Azal
//wahidazal.blogspot.com/
November 22nd, 2002
Dear all
We hav e been down this road before; and it leads no where.
my aplogies to the original blog; as our friend "Aryana" Azal has managed to do his "thing" by appearing under several different id's to as usual attack, distort and change the subject, as is his only vocation. (except the ......)
only if you insist
by Waters on Thu Sep 02, 2010 09:12 PM PDTbut the room is on you.
2nd thought, if Rosie is crazy and we are not married we are going to have another Aryana
Waters
by Doctor X on Thu Sep 02, 2010 09:08 PM PDTAre you answering my question or asking me a new one?
Rosie...Standby for NUR-i-BAHRAM SHAHAZINI
by faryarm on Thu Sep 02, 2010 09:02 PM PDTRosie...Standby
For the great announcement.
With great excitement , judging by the adoption by Nima Hazini?Wahid AZAl, NUR and other subsequently banned names et etc the name Aryana-Vaeja (what happened to the previous one VARUN ??? )
we should expect( depending on the quality of the Ganja) another great announcement ( not unlike his previous one as the Bayanic "saviour" "the godhead" etc etc
Perhaps the promised return of Zoroaster, The SHAH BAHRAM; although I seriously think he should erase his entire web history, since he with his infamous history would have serious credibilty problems trying to Hijack Iranians love for their ancient faith, conveniently trying to associate with a people mostly known as honest and peaceful souls; especially in their historical relationship with Bahais; some of the early believers and great figures and scholars in Bahai history having been from the Zoroastrian background.
In any case, Iranian.com's EVENTS SECTION would be a great place for Aryana-Vaeja formerly known as Nima Hazini, still known as Wahid Azal, banned here as NUR, Nur-Azal, Zulfqar 110, VARUN **** and today again Aryana-Vaeja to announce himself , again as another greatly awaited Saviour, AS NUR-i-BAHRAM SHAHIZINI :)
PS.
Rosie Jaan,
We lost your last invoice..
please resend...
Bahais really need you to apologise for them...
best
faryarm
Get a room...
by Aryana-Vaeja on Thu Sep 02, 2010 08:53 PM PDTNuff said.
-
May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer
High on what?
by Waters on Thu Sep 02, 2010 08:58 PM PDTHigh on what the prophet ascended to. If that is your question.
so the beautiful goddess is a rip off
by Waters on Thu Sep 02, 2010 08:39 PM PDTand is very abusive.
Nurse...
Rosie is crazy
by Aryana-Vaeja on Thu Sep 02, 2010 08:31 PM PDTAnd one of the oldest paid apologists for the Haifan Baha'is on this site.
-
May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer
Faryar is right
by Rosie. on Thu Sep 02, 2010 08:31 PM PDTI wrote about it on Faryar's thread without having seen Faryar's post here or 'Aryana's' reply, and I came here to tell people. Unfortunately it has to be told.
//iranian.com/main/blog/faryarm/omid-djalilis-appeal-support-human-rights-iran
ps Faryar, the next one was Xrvana, of Zurvanism.
enghadar zoor nazan, Faryar
by Aryana-Vaeja on Thu Sep 02, 2010 08:25 PM PDTBaraat bade!
You only discredit yourself with your fanatical behavior. On me you have nothing.
-
May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer
Kooshan?
by Waters on Thu Sep 02, 2010 07:54 PM PDTyou sound very MILLITANT!
NIma Hazini-WAHID AZAL-NUR- ZULFIQAR110-Aryana-Vaeja
by faryarm on Thu Sep 02, 2010 07:19 PM PDTNIma Hazini-WAHID AZAL-NUR- ZULFIGAR110- I CANT REMEMBER THE NEXT ONE- :) THEN back as Aryana-Vaeja...
Nima you cant hide ...your anger and animosity give you away...
NIma Hazini-WAHID AZAL-NUR- ZULFIQAR110-Aryana-Vaeja etc
Sorry, you have discredited yourself many times over...
Being "discredited" by you Nima Hazini/Wahid Azal is truly an honour. :)
Yes, you do, Faryar
by Aryana-Vaeja on Thu Sep 02, 2010 07:12 PM PDTYou have a problem with neutral, objective information and anything resembling truth. Your concept of truth is whatsoever agrees with your preconceived perspective. That is why you need to try to discredit your interlocutor on the personal level rather on the intellectual level. Because on the intellectual level you don't have anything to discredit me with. Nothing! I have already discredited you and your cult ten times over. On the personal level, I don't care what you cultists say about me or what you do. Like Zarathushtra against the people of his own time, the Truth I have presented about what you folks are speaks volumes for itself (look, people like Dariush have found their courage to speak up and stand up to you cultists) - which is why you Haifan Baha'is fear me and my presence here on IC so much and have tried everything imaginable to silence me, and have failed, and will fail again!
Dariush, a creed that cannot bear criticism and personalizes every criticism proves it has nothing substantial behind it because deep down it itself is unsure about the coherency of its own perspective. Fanatics need to prove something by force and attack. Non-fanatics have nothing to prove because the truth always speaks for itself. This behavior by Faryar just reinforces my point.
-
May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer
I have no problem with accurate information...
by faryarm on Thu Sep 02, 2010 07:03 PM PDT"Information is always a powerful weapon against religious fundamentalists, Baha'i or Muslim, and the more accurate information people have at their disposal about Bahaism the better they are equipped to answer these fanatics and so soundly refute them."
"I'd like to thank Nima Hazini/Wahid Azal for his assistance with the above comment"
The question is who provides the information, where it is from and what are the motives of the person, his / her history etc.. (see history Nima Hazini/wahid Azal/zulfigar110/Nur/nur-azal)
If faryarm is called a fundementalist , because he always refers to the original source and authentic Bahai writings, then he stands guilty.
It is up to the individual to take the time and effort to analyse and reflect in his heart and mind on what is the truth...
Bear in mind, that many fall to grasp the subject at hand, because their mind may understand the "Elm" but their heart is not ready for the all important "Erfan", which is essential in true understanding of the spiritual and the mystical.
The ego can be the greatest barrier to true understanding...
When did you ever hear that from a "fundamentalist" ?
Faryarm
When you want to get to Truth
by Aryana-Vaeja on Thu Sep 02, 2010 06:58 PM PDTYou look at all sides of a perspective, pro- and con, not just one. What you call anti-bahai is solid, irrefutable information that you cannot wave your hand away at. You want these individuals to just look at your sites, uncritically accept your narrative, while closing their eyes to everything else. That might be the Haifan Baha'i double-speak concept of independent investigation of truth, but it is not the real concept of the individual independent investigation of truth. I have actually encouraged Dariush to thoroughly look at your official sites and read your sources to see for himself that your emperor really doesn't have any clothes. I would also offer him to look at the following two sites as well besides the Bahai CULT FAQ blog I have already posted:
H-Bahai
&
Bayanic.com
Let him weigh and assess all the facts from all sides and all perspectives with information from multiple sources, not just one, and let him arrive at his own personal conclusions -- and not repeat yours parrot fashion. If you have a problem with that, then all your claims about being unprejudiced and independently investigating the truth etc are hollow and just hot air because you are obviously being prejudiced yourself about what sources people ought to be reading besides your own. Are you trying to control the information here and what people ought to know about your creed besides your official narratives? Don't because that, Faryar, is the same controlling mentality that presently infests Iran in the halls of power. No difference.
-
May we be amongst those who are to bring about the transfiguration of the Earth - Zoroastrian prayer
Dear Kooshan, where is the mentioned "mutiny" or "corruption" ?
by faryarm on Thu Sep 02, 2010 06:43 PM PDTWhere in the history do you see
eithr "mutiny" or "corruption"
Kindly be specific..
I await your response..
Thanks
Faryarm
Quoting Anti Bahai sites..
by faryarm on Thu Sep 02, 2010 06:41 PM PDTQuoting Anti Bahai sites??
is it the right way to get to the truth...?
does one have to always see through another's eye, especially those who are already against it?
Cant you not do your own investigation?
perhaps you always go into a situation with preconceived ideas and you prefer to choose the negative views that comfortably match your already made up mind.
Imagine where we would science be, if all inventors followed your method of investigation..
Some today would still believe that the earth is flat.....
Aryana-
is this the best you can do?
perhaps the judhement was right about you; that you arrived here determined to do your bit against anything Bahai...
Faryarm
Kooshan
by persian westender on Thu Sep 02, 2010 06:09 PM PDTThe million Muslims which you just mentioned, live in countries where the civil rights of their residents are guaranteed. In these countries, Muslims like others have to abide the collective constitutional rights. Muslims who are living in this environment by choice, and are enjoying the diversity of ideologies have the respect.
It is not the case, however in Muslim countries and majority of Muslim world where non-believers and 'Kaafars' or gays have to die. So, it seems it is not the ideology per se, but the civic environments which should get the credit.
In any event, it was not my intention to bring up this discussion. In my comment, I was referring to the idea by which people express their idealistic and utopian illustration of a Muslim society,by using their imagination. It was more like a suggestion for a project, and I thought it could help people to set their expectations through a solid and practical format.