Misc

Midwesty Nope ... it's My Biggus Dickus Time ;0)

Monty Python: 

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=2K8_jgiNqUc

Oh and Before I forget ...

The IRI Apologists Payback Time is Long Due ...

//iranian.com/main/blog/mona-19/video-human-rights-council-review-iran

VIVE LA RESTORATION :

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeVcOBHLDyE

modern?

Modern are all the countries that follow democratic laws and substribe to the charter of the human rights, whose people are happy and prosperous.  Countries that you have come to live in & enjoy, and be able to write what you want without religious goons knocking on your door.

Tell me what you think of as modern?  Do you think that we can go back to Caliph rule days?  Look at your Caliphs and Imams of the 7th century on-wards, and then tell us on what basis you think that the Islamic ideologies/governments are going to work this time around.  And, do not tell us because Kadivar, Soroush or Mohajeraani said so.

DK,

Isn't it your happy hour time by now?

David,

Why don't you speak for them since you have drafted a constitution already!

Where are the seculars?

Speak Up. Stand for your democratic beliefs. Unite. Organize. Lead. 

We have had enough of these Bozos! 

                         Visit: www.iransecular.org 

Thanks VPK

If you listen carefully to these followers of the Islamic rule, you hear phrases like: we can implement .... as long as they conform to the Islamic laws and Shari'a.  Well, doctors of religion: on what basis are your speeches referenced to?  Islamic Caliphs whose rules were dominated with murder and mayhem?  Or, did you dream of these non-sense and think they are real.

Speak rationally and we will listen.  Give us the same BS and we will call you on it.

You are right VPK when you said: Go back to the universities and experiment on a computer model.

first step

i think anyone who goes on the podium and lectures regarding the future of iran, should first look into his own past and admit to any wrongdoing on their own part.  not only that, describe the consequences of his previous actions whether the person is offering a differnt islamic solution, reform, or secularism.  that is the first step to gain credibility with the masses.

"Soroush Made Simple" A Dummies Guide... ;0)

THE LIFE OF SOROUSH ! Directed by Terry Jones and Casting the Mony Pythons 

He's Not The Messiah:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zjz16xjeBAA&feature=related

Khomeini is gone so they

Khomeini is gone so they can't physically follow him...They have rejected Velayate Faghih so they have rejected his legacy can't follow him spritually either....so they can't be stooges.

"implement something that has worked in the modern society...

 implement an ideology that King Cyrus advocated 2500 years ago".

This is what you call modern?

MM Jan

Their first experiment will end in shame, according to their own opinion.  These three are again trying to experiment with a whole Iranian society using un-tested ideologies.  

I wholeheartedly agree.We have proven systems that have worked from Japan to Sweden. We should opt for a proven system that works and generates prosperity. The place for experimenting with ideologies is the graduate school. They can write PhD thesis and papers. Meanwhile the rest of us will use the tried method thank you.

Instead of trying to fix a broken system that all three of these opinioned folks shoved into Iranian throats, why not put the religion aside and implement the charter of the human rights for a change.  The rulling Mullahs are not reformable.

It is pride that stops them from admitting their mistakes. A wise person will learn from mistakes and make better decisions. These old ideologues are too vested in their failed ideologies. They want to tweak it with the hope it will reform.

My advise to Soroush: give it up. Go to a university and hold debates with your students. Thanks god that the West does not practice cultural genocide and you are free to say whatever you want.

VPK

yes, stooges

They were stooges/followers of Khomeini and as I said, experimented with the Iranian society based on a 7th century ideology that Khomeini wanted and advocated.  Now, they want to give us a different flavor of the same failed ideology, and I, as many others are saying; why not implement something that has worked in the modern society:

Let's leave religion at home/mosque and implement an ideology that King Cyrus advocated 2500 years ago.  An old ideology that has evolved into the UN charter of human rights, with proven record of success in numerous countries.   

No more bloody Islamic experiments.

Stooge?

"one who plays a subordinate or compliant role to a principal". source: M-W.com

Is that what you meant when you called them stooges?

VPK,

I saw the effect and got a good idea how the cause is.

Wrong? Why should we trust these 3-stooges, again?

Is 31 years of a bad experiment enough to end it?  I say: yes.

Their first experiment will end in shame, according to their own opinion.  These three are again trying to experiment with a whole Iranian society using un-tested ideologies.   Instead of trying to fix a broken system that all three of these opinioned folks shoved into Iranian throats, why not put the religion aside and implement the charter of the human rights for a change.  The rulling Mullahs are not reformable.

Nepotism, corruption and crime run deep in the divine cesspool.

I didn't read the constitution...

but I can tell you it's doomed to fail...

Man read what you just wrote! You are predicting the failure of something you have not read? What kind of prediction is that?

since it didn't give you enough open heart not to generalize and exclude people.

How do you know that; did you ever make suggestions that got rejected. This document is not final and is evolving. If you want to be useful  make suggestions. But you go on to condemn it without even reading it! My conversation with you sir is over. If you want any further discussion first read what you want to discuss.

MM,

They think Islam can save us not the other way around. That's the message they came to power with. That's what people believed and still believe.

If....

If you have to do it and the kid is making a havoc, then you can hire a scientist to separate it for you. I think in this case a thinker can play as such.

حفظ حکومت دینی در نظرات سروش، مهاجرانی و کدیور مشترک است

an email opinion that I recieved and that I agree with

/ 

نقطه نظرات: سروش، مهاجرانی و کدیور

Midwesty jaan, I am sorry but this reminds me of :-)

This reminds me of Ali bahaneh gir.  He asked for maast his mother gave him maast, he asked for moraaba she gave him moraba, he said ghatish kon his mother mixed the two, then he said hala savash kon ;-).  

Mehraban jan,

I recommend to read his book" Hekmat va Ma-eeshat". He talks about how to separate religion from state without contradicting yourself and causing confusion amongst ordinary people (as VPK said commoners).

The proof is in Sholeh Zard....Yum!

80% if not more of Iranians are in favor of Islam. They drink, they smoke, they party, they also go to ghameh zani handing out sholeh zard...

Midwesty, the proof is in the pudding

please tell me one contribution that he has made to the betterment of Iran with all of his mumbo jumbo Phd intellectualism.  Many people were and are against the Velayat e Faghih.  If he is for a secular Iran he should come out and say it, clearly.   IRR at its inception was supposed to be a Democratic religious regime so what else is new?!

PS. Okay, maybe he has been instrumental in proving to us once and for all that an Islamic regime is a really bad idea.  I give him that. 

VPK jan,

Soroush since the time I know him, has hold the same position. I am sorry, you guys never heard of his position till now.

By the way the green movement also didn't happen just yesterday.

I used go to his semi-hidden speeches all over Tehran. He is a thinker not a leader. If you are looking for a leader and don't find the quality of a leader in him , you are looking in the wrong place.

Thinkers generate leaders.

We all know what happens since the last time we appointed a thinker as a leader, he created a blood bath.

Mehraban,

I know Soroush for over 20 years. (Not that it's a credible reference for him) but I brought more of his books with me to the US than my cloths. Do I need to be more clear? :O)

Ok I think I should be more clear...He has many books...read them...do your homeworks then tell me why (in specific) he is a nonsense.

He voiced his opposition at the time nobody dared to get even close to the red line of Velayate Faghih right under their nose.

I didn't read the constitution...

but I can tell you it's doomed to fail...since it didn't give you enough open heart not to generalize and exclude people. I am not telling you in a offending posture...sorry there wasn't any other way to say it.

US constitution is the best example, (DO NOT COPY). But what it makes it more interesting is the events and underlying movement that led to that masterpiece...(PLEASE DO COPY)

Velayat Faghih is just the tip of the Iceberg

One hair of the honest and independant David ET is worth a hundred Souroush who has been trying to fit a square peg in a round hole for 31 years and does not not give it up.   A "dokaan" is a good thing to have and to hold.  

Dear Maryam Hojjat,

You brought up a very good point. If...you ... go ...with ...exclusion....standard... you... will...end ... up...alone...at the end of the day!

Think how we can include!

:O)

Midwesty Jan read the Interim Constituion

We do have ideas. They are not "my" ideas only. They belong to many people. These include all of IIC and Iran Secular. But we are not the only ones there are others. The basis  of our ideas is described in the "Interim Constitution". Read it and see what you think. It is a lot more advanced than anything Shsoursh; Bazargan or their generation has offered.

The one thing we don't have is a lot of "huff and puff" . We are not pretentious. We are not going around claiming to speak for God. We are normal people who love Iran.

Read it then tell us what you think.

Soroush Is a Criminal Islamist with Suit!

who like others such as Mr. Mosavi, Karoubi, & Kadivar want continuation this barbaric regime with their constitution who has deprived 1/2 of population from their rights.

We Must not Let any of these criminal Fox fool us again.  more than 30 yrs is enough! 

Since you were rejecting

Since you were rejecting Soroush and his colleagues alike as a whole, I got the impression you might have a solution to fill the vacuum. Generally the one who voice his/her objection has also the solution "to how" in specific.

I do reject Soroush 100% because frankly he is wrong. It took him 31 years to figure out that VF is a bad idea? Anyone with basic understanding of politics would know that VF means a dictator. If this is the degree of intellect that Soroush & Co have I reject them.

One big problem with Iran has been "hero worship". People find someone then turn them into the second coming. This was Mossadegh; Shariati; Khomeini; and now Soroush. We need to stop that. It is not up to any single person to solve our problems. We need to work on it together. People make mistakes. When we put our destiny into one person hands then we suffer because of their mistakes and arrogance. As WC (a big jerk in general but right on this one) said "absolute power corrupts absolutely".