Misc

Marge

Why would you say you don't care? Israel is making threats to Iran; threats that are easily acted upon by zealots and equally digested as good by other zealots.

I have already made is clear I am opposed to any threat against Iran. However the IRI started from day one to make threats against Israel. They are the ones leading prayers with "Marg Bar Israel". What do you expect in return? Israel is not a cuddly turn the other cheek type. They are returning the favor. While Shah was running Iran there were no threats. Once IRI goes hopefully without foreign intervention the threats from Israel will stop because their fight is not with us.

Going beyond talk to reality all of Israel fights have been with Arabs not with Iran. So I am quite satisfied to have Iran stay out of it. I said before again: Israel Arab war is not ours. Israel does not lay claim to Iranian territory. Arabs on the other hand do. As for disgusting acts I found Saddam gassing Iranians to be very disgusting. But I never hear any of the usual crowd condemn that. Why? Because somehow Arabs get a free pass to attack Iran. But if Israel attacks Arabs then people all go nuts.

I repeat I don't see any benefit for Iran to get in a fight with Israel. Specially to save the Palestinians or the Lebanese. Let them do their own fighting. Any way, this discussion is going nowhere we just have to agree to disagree. 

VPK - do you know why Israel exists? You should care.

Why would you say you don't care? Israel is making threats to Iran; threats that are easily acted upon by zealots and equally digested as good by other zealots. 

If Israel had oil, the nation would never have been necessary. The Palestinians were marked for dead right away. Iran, like Israel, is a non-Arab state (a real state, aah) in the ME. I do care very much about israel. They control the debate about Iran's sovereignty, while they engage in disgusting tactics to protect theirs. Iran hasn't invaded anyone. Actually, it has been invaded.

Actually, if Iran had invaded countries and killed ruthlessly like the USA or Israel, I would understand this debate. It would be reasonable. We're not dealing with Saddam Hussein. We're dealing with a regime that must be removed by its own citizenry. It's a basic part of nationhood.

I can't believe countries don't have sovereignty anymore. It's not even a word we hear. Probably not an accident :X

No Fear

 States:

then we shall use illegal means of warfare as well which includes bio and chemical tipped warheads. Its a tick for a tack and an eye for an eye. Don't you worry about the jews, they fully understand this concept.

 That is exactly what i was talking about. Your country being attacked via conventional means of warfare and You decide to make up your own rules and use ILLEGAL means to stage a counter attack. Really amazing. What genius millitary commander do you consult with on a regular basis?

 Tit for Tat and not Tick for Tack, Notwithstanding, you are giving yourself the permission to use Bio/Chem weapons, rather than retaliating on the same and equal scale. That is what has been so hard for the "akhoondocrats" to understand. national uprising? get than crane and hang their leaders. Our nuclear facilities invaded? No problem. Unleash a biological warfare on them.  I do worry about Jews since The Knucleheads of the world don't.

They are not seeking for the support they can not get. Did you not listen to the content of this clip? This is all this clip was all about. Did he not say specifically that we do not need to coordinate with anyone out there? and besided, whom do you think is going to be their Biggest supporter in this? Is it any other country than the USA?

Israel never had the intention to go to war with iran, had your role model never started mouthing off and Gonde G... .well. actually that had started long ago by his role model. You know. the quomi Santa clause.

IMF

Further, Iranians are fed up with the world of inaction for sixty years towards the crimes against humanity committed by Israel in its illigal occupation of Palestine as an aware nation.

BS! I am an Iranian and know many Iranians. We are not  interested Palestine or Lebanon. That is your problem. You are Lebanese and that is your war. It would be best if you stopped begging Iran to save your a**. We won't. No Iranian blood for Palestine. No Iranian lives for other nations. The a**h**** sided with Saddam. We owe you nothing. Go fight your own battles with Israel. My people are not going to die for your nation. We are not dog meat to die for your Palestine.

Is that clear enough or do you want me to repeat myself. As long as you look to Iran to solve your problems you lose. Even IRI won't stick its neck out for you. The next regime will be Iranian nationalist and less prone to sympathy for you.

KouroshS ...

You Said ;

You are not just thinking up "defensive" or offensive strategies. You are asking for a full scale counterattack even though it wil be our NUCLEAR FACILITIES that (god forbid any attack should happen but if such is the case) will take the brunt of it

Ofcourse I am talking full scale counter attack. When another country attacks your industrial facilities with its military , It is a declaration of WAR. Now if this facility is a nuclear facility, ( which is against international laws to be attacked due to radioactive contaminations ) then we shall use illegal means of warfare as well which includes bio and chemical tipped warheads. Its a tick for a tack and an eye for an eye. Don't you worry about the jews, they fully understand this concept.

You said;

 we would not be receiveing RETHORICAL threats had your Commander in Chief managed to shut his mouth and not spew "israel must be wiped off the map" every day

I thought you mentioned in an earlier post on this thread that Israeli military commanders and politicians are " calculative" and reasonable. If so, why should they care about Ahmadinejad's rants and raves about wiping them off? You got it all wrong again. Ahmadinejad rants are considered " rethorical". The israeli threat is considered " Real" since they are gearing up their military for an attack and are actively seeking international support for their attack. They have even named and announced their targets in Iran and recently two of their submarines have entered the Persian golf. If you still think these threats are " rethorical", then you are simply an idiot.

You're not even smart enough to pretend

that you're an Iranian hezbullahforum.net.  Look at what this dim wit says:

"Iran will never be accepted by Israel as an independent nation and as such Iran will be on Israeli target list unless Iran becomes another Arab country to bend over for both the US and Israel."

Buddy, how many times do I have to tell you that you're not on nabatiyeh.com?  Iran is NOT an Arab country, and no matter how many hezbullah imports like you are shipped into Iran, and are fed and paid, it will not become one.  

Ma'a Salamah!

gunjeshk

Yes, VPK, I also do not understand the non stop stream of anti Israel
and anti Jewish remarks here.

Well, one can blame you your lack of understanding. For the start, begin with the news section @ IC and follow the news about Israel. You will learn that US ME policy is heavily influenced by the Zionist lobby. Iran will never be accepted by Israel as an independent nation and as such Iran will be on Israeli target list unless Iran becomes another Arab country to bend over for both the US and Israel.

The news section will teach you about how Israel is instrumental in threats against Iran, killing Iranian scientists, covertly working to undermine Iran's nuclear technology by sabotage and assassinations,conducting a media campaign to harm Iran Internationally, making every effort to ring "painful" sanctions against Iran and so forth.

Further, Iranians are fed up with the world of inaction for sixty years towards the crimes against humanity committed by Israel in its illigal occupation of Palestine as an aware nation.

Now, don't comeback again and wonder why Iranians are against Israel. All it takes is a little reading, you will also join Iranians in ther efforts to protect Iran and the humanity from an essentially a terrorist state!

VPK aziz

Amen to all that. You are absolutely right,. It all comes down to a full-fledged battle for them.  IT is like someone would slap them in the face and then they would want to grap a saw or a knife and cut that person's legs off. All that talk about "the lack of accuracy" of their missles and all the justification for hitting non-millitary target is just shameful.

No fear

Sure. Go ahead and think like that, Not that i really care. I have read enuogh of your posts anyway to know exactly what goes on in your mind. so go ahead and throw that " oh you have not readmy post properly".

I do not need to make up my mind. I am against your plan top to bottom period. You are not just thinking up "defensive" or offensive strategies. You are asking for a full scale counterattack even though it wil be our NUCLEAR FACILITIES that (god forbid any attack should happen but if such is the case) will take the brunt of it. Going all out with our Bio and chemical weapons is really not the way to do it. It should happen on an equal scale. Besides, You Justify sending rockets and missles into residential areas since those might misfire and lack the accuracy needed. Well Tough sh....t sherlock. That is something Your own PEOPLE will pay for later on.

Yes , Of course I am for real. Think about it. Syria and Iraq are far less strategically important than Iran and besides we would not be receiveing RETHORICAL threats had your Commander in Chief managed to shut his mouth and not spew "israel must be wiped off the map" every day, or in every speech. IT also takes an idiot to go way too far in retaliation. When shoot your mouth off and conduct your own manuvers all across Persian gulf the what the f... do you expect? for others to just sit and watch you in admiration?

Damn straight Iran is not Syria and Iraq. That is what i have been saying all along. You should keep your ideas to youself as well more than everyone else here and in iran. Believe it. 

A resposible strategist ... Yes... But as the saying goes.... shoma ro sanana? Why don't we leave it up to them and stop being kase dagh tar az ash. shall we? Create alliances then! by all means. Go for it. Talk to people , form meetings, create online forums. write letters. What you are doing is getting people riled up and spicing things up and distorting the reality of the situation, because possibly it is you who is itching for a war more than the zionistas?

Yes, VPK, I also do not

Yes, VPK, I also do not understand the non stop stream of anti Israel and anti Jewish remarks here. It sounds cretin-ish, sorry guys.  I often think that it is somehow comfortable to rage against Israel in this forum because anti-Zionism seems to be a common ground for so many expats. 

In other words, the pain of watching your own country in the hands of religious fascists, tends to make some here need something else to blame. What better scapegoat than Jews?

Sorry, Israel will not fall. They are too smart, to determined to survive. Even if they have borrow from the U.S. Who wants to be a reason for more Jewish annihilation?

Meanwhile, nobody has to cover their head in Israel if they don't want to, or go through a state censor to publish a book. Men and women can meet anywhere, anytime. Try that in Tehran. Also, the schools are not segregated, and no one EVER gathers in Tel Avi once a week to chant "Death to Iran."

Israel, like any healthy state, has arguments with people who are so sworn to their disappearance that they send children to shopping centers wearing bombs strapped to their chest. How many times did this happen before they finally put up a wall to stop such things? Also, unlike Iran there is no death penalty in Israel, (unless you are an unrepentant ex-Nazi).

I've been there on my US passport. Nobody gave a damn who I was or where I was from. No one followed me or made me report my movements. That's freedom that can't be duplicated in Iran.

KouroshS Jan

I agree with you. I don't like all this belligerence. Specially coming from people safely in the West.Taunting other nations is not a good thing. That is how wars are started.  I know most of us agree that a war will be a disaster for Iran.

I also do not understand this non stop stream of anti Israel and anti Jewish stuff. Why all this anger at Israel? Who was it that attacked Iran: it was Iraq. Who supported Iraq: most of the Arabs and the Palestinians. 

Yes Israel makes threats but Iraq actually attacked Iran. Right now some Arabs lay claim to Persian Gulf and much of Iranian land. I don't hear anything about that. But when it comes to Israel there is all the hate in the world.

KouroshS ...

You haven't read my post properly.

Reactionary ideology?  What the hell do you mean by that?

I am advocating defensive and offensive measures if and after an Israeli attack. It is our right to do so and we will answer any aggression, be it from anyone, with every arsonal that we have at our disposal. Is this defensive measure " reactionary" ? Ofcourse it is ... all defensive measures are. Unless you are talking " pre emptive" or " pro active" which means we have to take them out first. Make up your mind.

Only an idiot will turn its back on the enemy. We are dealing with a country that has bombed two nuclear facilities in the region already and has been saying it will bomb ours as well. It has been preparing its military for this attack for a while now and you are saying " ... this may not be the case with Iran .." ??!  Are you for real?

Ok .. wishful thinker. keep your ideas to yourself and dream in La la land.  A responsible Iranian strategist or military commander has to be prepared for the worst. You have to creat your alliances and be ready to retaliate strongly. I would be ashamed of myself if our nuclear facilities get bombed and we don't retaliate.

Iran is not syria, nor Iraq.

My Prediction. Israel will Eventually Attack which will lead to

All the inhumane death sentences being carried out today and in the last 31 years are to show who is really in power.   
   
Since no one can answer to the system fairly, it is tyranny, monstrosity, dictatorial.   
   
My Prediction is the Islamic and the Republican elements of Iran will soon be badly knocked out of the picture due to their ongoing history of Failure when Iranians depended on them.  The blow will eventually come by the Iranian element when it reemerges strengthened.   
 
Actually that is also my deep seated desire, to see Persia's Traditions revived at the expense of both Islamic and Republican Elements.  So We can welcome back Freedom for Iran and Iran's monarchy's national assembly.   
   
I really Miss all the monarchists.  
 
When the Islamic Republic is defeated in it's ambitions people will see that the Islamic Element has failed them badly. 
 
And the Republican Element is Unworkable in our society in our lifetime  
 
Then Irans future will rest on the ability of the people to make their own traditional persianness a relevant part of their lives... above religous traditions like islam and above power or politics.  
 
This is the only unifying voice that is capable of rescuing Iran.  But first the people need to be okay with being more of who they really are...

 not what islam says they are.

Strange

No fear

This very reationary ideology and way of thinking is what causing all the mess. Each one of those countries had their own unique strategic significance for Israel at the time that the attack took place. This may not be the case with Iran. They could not possibly have anything to gain by embarking on such mission. There certainly is more calculation and realistic planning that goes into the thinking process of the Israeli military leaders than your uttelrly amaturish defensive rationale and recommendation for their iranian counterparts.

If Iran Really does counter attack on such a massive and wide scale that you are suggesting, Then that simply will be an invitation for even more trouble, which probably will last longer than the previous war.

Marge

Do you recognize that you just insulted the jews all over the world? Your saying that "everything is fake about israel" or that there is n culture besides their religion ranks right up there with "Israel should be wiped off the map" It is even more of an insult and a vile rethoric. That from someone who has big problems with rethorics to begin with???

 . If they are fake, then why do you think they are Protecting their "sovereignty?

Capt_Ayhab

I watched the entire interview on Sunday and the man was lying through
his teeth. Sad thing is Amanpoor did not call him on any of his lies.

Amanpour becomes the lion woman only when interviewing Iranian officilas. But when she interviews Israeli or Western officilas she becomes a pussy cat! A notable background is her Jewish Husband. Who knows, may be her husband keep her in check as far as Israeli interests are considered.

In any case, it is ironc that in "dictatorship" Iran she gets to ask contentious questions from Iranian leaders but in Democtaric West, she loses all her tenacity in asking proper questions from the Western or Israeli officials.

;-))

Marge

I really don't care about Israel one way or other. I rather Iran keep out of Israel business. Nothing good will come out of it. Let them deal with their own problems. IRI is obsessed with them. They are obsessed with Iran.

Obama has to kiss up to AIPAC because that is how American politics work. No President of the US is going to do otherwise. Remember Bush senior took on Israel and became a one term president. 

Regarding Israel's right I am not going to sit in their judgment. It is not my job to declare who has a right and who does not. Bahrain was ethnically cleansed of its Persian population. Does Bahrain have a right to exist?

This stuff has been going on for centuries. 

I did not say that VPK

Defending sovereignty and defending tyranny are two different things. The IRI is a regime and it will defend itself over and over. I don't dispute that they terrorize iranians who disagree with their policies and speak out or organize. That wasn't at all what I stated.

If the IRI goes bye bye, Iran will remain. The same can't be said for Israel. They don't have a culture outside religion. 

I am more interested in this issue of Sovereignty! Israel has no business being there anyway. Most of their population isn't even semitic. Psssshh. Everything is fake about Israel. Except the destruction they cause to protect their sovereignty. I heard today that Obama is trying to get the Palis and the Ziobots to talk again. Groundhog's day!

Marge

you are really off base on this topic. The IRI is completely based on religion. If you don't admit this then you are plain out wrong.

The IRI also constantly tells people what to do. They tell people how to dress. They force people to follow a particular religion. They are ten times worse than Israel. Try going to Iran and openly being atheist. 

Anyway bad behavior by Israel does not justify bad behavior by IRI. I really don't understand the hate some people have. It is blinding them to the worst abuses of Islamic Republic. 

This is not a contest of who's rethoric is more vile. Two wrongs don't make a right.VPK

No Fear, can you just imagine

If Iran used half of the rhetoric that Israel did? Just half. 

This is all such a joke. 

Possible Israel attack

Disclaimer: I do not advocate an attack on Iran by any nation or group. My analysis is meant to prevent a war.

I have said this many times. It is impossible for Israel to attack Iran on its own. They would have to fly over US controlled territory and that means USA involvement. Plus Iran would close the Hormozd Straights an possibly mine the Persian Gulf. That means USA would need to get involved to keep the oil flow open. This requires a major naval and air operation. It needs to be a long term and ongoing thing. No nation is able to do it other than America.

It is my beleif that US will not allow Israel to do anything without American approval. So either nothing will happen or it will be a massive American led attack. 

In 2008 Bush vetoed an Israeli plan to attack Iran. Obama will likely do the same. They will instead try to destabilize the Islamic regime and try a Green Revolution. This will go on for a couple of years. Meanwhile they are going to mop up the Taliban just to sure up their position on the east of Iran. The time to watch is 2 years from now. If by then the Islamic regime is still in power then things may happen.

Show of force and hard talks are needed when dealing with Israel

Israel has a record of attacking nuclear facilities of countries that were vulnerable due to war or having a weak deterrence against any Israeli attack. Take Syria and Iraq as an example.

Besides, they have openly advocated war with Iran and threatened to attack us , just because we are enriching uranium legally . Israel continues to wage and carry on military maneuvers for the sole purpose of attacking Iran.

Any sane military commander in Iran should plan counter measures both defensively and offensively against Israel's attack on Iran. Any true Iranian will support a strong counter measure against a foreign attack on our country. Iran should use all it has at her disposal to attack Israel. This also includes the use of bio/chemical weapons on military targets. ( Since our missiles accuracy are not perfect, don't be surprised to see one of these tipped warheads finds its way in a populated area ). Let these zionist pigs know whats at stake here.

We will mess you up.

gunjeshk

Compare the Iranians opposition, since the SYSTEM views them as threat, with Israeli opposition that used to live there and are no more!

See, it's easy to kick everyone out and bring in who agrees with you, then say hey, we are democratic. 

Lastly, and I have no interest to argue my points just didn't want you to go totally unanswered, if Israeli state was sustainable, the AIPAC and the US government would have not need to spend this incredible amount of money and resources for one of smallest countries in the planet. 

the energy spend to make Israel go one more day is your answer to democracy that Israel has. Israeli government and papers may criticize the parties, which are ruling government, but never the system. That's what the Iranians did. Put it in perspective.

Now, suppose that Iran is given the amount of money that Israel enjoys, and Iran uses it's lobby to put Zionist regime out of control and strives to "bring" "democracy" to the land. Spend millions of dollars to do so. I'll say the true face of Israeli government will blossom in front of your eyes. 

XerXes Jan

XerXes jan man fonte Irani nadarm. Baraye ine ke az alefbaye gharbi estefadeh meknan. Hala ham engelisi meneveesam ke degaran ham befahmand.

I was teased too in school. The way I dealt with it was to teach the guy a lesson that he would never forget. I think he still wears the scar. However that is not the way nations should act. The West is sitting there itching for a reason to attack Iran. It would be a bad idea to give them that reason. Some people mistake my suggestion as sign of weakness or worse a sign of sympathy with those who want to attack Iran. They are wrong. I am neither weak nor want to see Iran attacked. Have you heard "ba panbeh sar beboor". All this hart o purt does not do any good. If AN would just shut up Iran would have a better chance of doing what it wants. I mean why the hell does he have to hold a holocaust conference and invite David Duke? How does that improve Iran's prospects!

I want to see a powerful and free Iran. I would love to see the lost territories including Bahrain returned to Iran. But we are not going to get there by picking unnecessary fights. Specially verbal ones with absolutely no reason.

If IRI  leadership really wants to build a powerful Iran they need to reverse the brain drain. Not stand there yelling at the West.

gunjeshk,

Iranians are the same way about children but the difference is we've watched them how thousands of them were lost to war. So how you think we feel when Israelis talk about war.

The communication link is missing, that has caused a vacuum in understanding. Governments are taking advantage of people's ignorance so one demonizing the other.

Gormeh - Time will tell which is the "failed" state.

Time will tell which is the "failed" state.

Israel is not like the Bush Era at all! Israelis are absolutely crazy about children; it almost dangerous to take a baby there; they could be loved to death. If you do take a child, be prepared to see your precious bundle lifted from your hands and sent around the room to be kissed by perfect strangers, including Arabs. I have never seen such an outpouring of love, so openly demonstrated.  

I wonder, aren't you worried that if you can "imagine" such things about a people you demonize without knowing; what the blazes are people going to "imagine" about YOU??!!  Would it be okay if people in the American heartland think you chant "Marg Bar . . .(whatever)" to the mirror every morning before you brush your teeth?

You must listen to very biased sources because an Israeli can say anything, anywhere (including the Knesset) about their leaders. The government there falls left and right, at the will of the people.   

We know what happens in Iran if you criticize the government, even if you bring several million others along with you for support.

Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

بر عکس. اینا روشون زیاد شده. باحاشون حرف بزنی می بینی که چه رو دارن. باید دهن به دهن شد.
تو مدرسه یکی هی من و اذیت می کرد. کلاس هشتم بود و من تازه وارد راهنمایی. تا من یه روز جلوش نستادم، ولم نمی کرد. خودشون می گن که عربا فقط زور حالیشونه. آخه خودشونم عربن. ایران، سوریه، لبنان، و بزودی ترکیه و عراق زیر بار این قاتلای منطقه نمی رن و باید سینه سپر کنن . یه بار واسه همیشه. خودشون خواستن، ماییم که یه عمره در منطقه داریم پول، خون، حیثیت، آزادی، و پیشرفتمونو فدای سر کابوی بازی اینا می کنیم. نترس، اینان که باید بترسن. یه کوتوکه، هر طوری هم که هیکل داشته باشه، "ورک آت" کنه، تو با یه پس کله ای بهش می رسونی دنیا دست کیه. اسرائیل با تموم هرت و پرتش، همون کوتله است. اندازه اش ضعفشه. ناراحت نباش، داریمش.

Dealing with Israel

The best way is to tone down the rhetoric. No good will come out of this back and forth. As someone said speak softly ... Let them say what they like to. My grandmother used to say: dhan be dahaneshoon nashoo.

Regarding Nuclear: There is no question Iran has a right to it. Whether it is wise is another point: it isn't. I make no secret of my personal opposition to anything nuclear be it in the West or Iran. It is dirty and dangerous. I am sorry to say that this whole global warming thing is giving it new life. I don't like it one bit and prefer other options. Iran recieives a great amount of Sun. It should be harnested for energy. I have pointed this out many times but no one ever says anything about it. 

How about it? China is already surpassing the US in Solar Panel generation. There is no reason Iran should not. I see rockets and ships but no renewable technology.

Iran needs to stop worrying about 60's technology and move into the real thing. That's what I want.

این پفیوز هنوز

این پفیوز هنوز اینجاست. بابا برش دارین استفراغم گرفت.

Neocon Evangelists...

nutcases as well as Hojjateye cult are the only people benefit from a ideological conflict between Iran and Israel.

Israel to these radical factions is only a plain field.

A direct talk between moderate Israelis and Iranians should take place
in order to defuse the tension much similar to use of "the red phone"
during the cold war.

Not true

Iran was not founded based on religion or religious fate. Iran has natural resources that have supported all kinds of corrupt regimes. 

Iran has a culture that sustains itself without the help of outside religions and fanatics.

Israel has sex dreams about being as strong as Iran. Give me a break. Israel is a failed state. 

Again, I didn't say that Israeli's are terrible people. Many of them are fun loving. People are people. However, when I think of the Bush era, I think that must be what it's like to be an Israeli. The government is constantly telling you you have to be marked, searched, tagged, and scared. f*c that and yes, some of that for Israel too. Hey maybe it's time to write that constitution?? NOPE! time to bomb iran.