LETTER

You're right, it's over I would have to repeat myself otherwise

How long can you go on answering every question with "WHAT ABOUT YOU???" What a laughable elementary school "answer"!

Q

"Don't embarrass yourself. This exchange tells more about you than NIAC."

As I said before, stick to the facts and don't worry about me embarassing myself or not.

"Yes, the person is saying there is a campaign, and that's what the campaign does (not "everyone!"). That is undisputable. There is evidence for it. You are the..."

Q, listen to yourself! You are reverting to turning stones in order to force your invalid points.

This discussion is over.

Please Jamshid, listen to yourself for Allah's sake!

This implies that those who don't agree with NIAC are either in the background or in the forefront, or in a PR firm or...

Please... Don't embarrass yourself. This exchange tells more about you than NIAC. Yes, the person is saying there is a campaign, and that's what the campaign does (not "everyone!"). That is undisputable. There is evidence for it. You are the one who makes the assumption that whoever is attacking NIAC must be "ordinary" or whatever word you have come up with. You are making the generalization here, only too blind to see it.

It only "implies" to YOU, what you already believe, i.e. confirms your own biases. (See the lengthy discussion you ignored below).

Awww... How sensitive you are.

Like I said, grade school is over.

Q

Here is my "lie", stated by an "involved" NIAC fan: 

"A friend of mine has been involved in NIAC or Parsi for some time. I recently asked her why NIAC doesn’t make comments on Iranian.com. Her response was something as follows:

“There is a major campaign going on to undermine NIAC and eliminate the only Iranian-American voice on Capitol Hill. On the forefront you have some Iranian individuals who are usually connected to the MKO or the Monarchists; in the background you have neo-conservative funding and guidance. Entering the commenting game is not really possible, because the neo-cons have hired PR firms to sit day in and day out and make negative comments on NIAC posts, using fake Iranian names."

This implies that those who don't agree with NIAC are either in the background or in the forefront, or in a PR firm or...

They can be any of the above, but not an ordinary Iranian American? That tells me volumes about NIAC's mentality.

Besides, have the folks at NIAC lost it? Do they really think that they have become so important that the neo-cons (or whoever) have hired an entire PR firm to "sit day in and out and make negative comments about NIAC"?

Are you kidding me? Could those negative commentators be, ummm..., ordinary Iranian Americans too?

"You ask in your opinion, yet you answer every question yourself"

Awww... How sensitive you are.

maybe yes, but YOU are not one of them jamshid!

First of all, you are --of course-- lying when you say "NIAC employees/fans" think of everyone who questions NIAC as zionists or neocons, etc. Nobody has ever said that, and nobody wrote it in this thread. Don't even try to BS your way out of this. You are wrong (likely because you are blinded by your own hate).

What NIAC has said and it has been proven true is that there is a campaign to discredit it. Not that EVERYONE is in that campaign, just that the campaign is real and it is aimed at bringing down NIAC.

Second, your arrogance shows when you put yourself in the category of "ordinary Iranians" with innocent "suspicion". We have been over this but for the sake of people who don't know you I will repeat. You have not approved one thing NIAC has ever done. Are you saying everything it does is "pro IRI?" A fair-minded person, even a suspicious one would have to admit the good they have clearly done with this community, even if you don't agree with every move they make.

Many people have said exactly that. That is what's normal and can be expected of people. No one can satisfy "everyone", after all. But don't pretend like YOU or other attack-dogs are in that category, you are not.

That's basically what you need to understand. If you were just an average rational human, you would have a reasonable, fact-based evidence for the accusations you continuously level against NIAC, you don't.

Thirdly, I have to applaud the way you think once again. I guess I was clairvoyant when I said you sound like a grade schooler. Just read what you have supposedly "challenged" me to do. You ask "in your opinion", yet you answer every question yourself with an equal mix of ignorance and arrogance! Am I even necessary in this discussion supposedly addressed to me? I don't think so. This is indicative of the larger issue you have with NIAC. You have some bias in your head and you can't let reality come in to contradict it. This is something, I believe you should think about deeply.

Don't say I've never done anything for you!

Q, I'll make this simpler for you...

By asking you two questions, I will eliminate all the complexities that are piling up in this discussion: 

1. In your opinion, are there any non-pro IRI, non-reformist, non-etc..., just ordinary Iranian Americans who might like NIAC, or dismiss NIAC's links to the regime?

The answer is obviously, yes. So we are in agreement and so let's move on to the the part that could be too advanced for you to grasp. The next question:

2. In your opinion, are there any non-zionist, non-neocon, non-etc... just ordinary Iranian Americans who might dislike NIAC, or have suspicions about NIAC's links to the regime?

If your answer is yes, I rest my case by asking why NIAC employees/fans don't not think so?. If your answer is no, I also rest my case because everyone would know that it would a false answer.

jamshid, grade school is over

How long can you go on answering every question with "WHAT ABOUT YOU???"

What a laughable elementary school "answer"! And you claim to have "substance"? The fact is there have been plenty of attacks on NIAC by known enemies of it and of Iranians in general which have been exposed even when they came from known pro-War neocons. Despite pretending like you are against bombing Iran, YOU have taken most of these baseless accusations on face value and repeat them like a parrot.

On the flip side what "pro NIAC" argument are you accusing me of being psychologically ready for? Who made the argument? Where is it written?

Please.... You're just talking out of your other orifice and calling it substance. As I said, people can read for themselves.

Q

"you are so psychologically ready to take anybody's anti-NIAC words at face value"

This sort of arugments are without merit, illogical and irrelevant, because for example, one could say that "you are so psychologically ready to take anybody's pro-NIAC words at face value"

You wrote, "Could it be because you are just looking for a way of affirming your own biases"

Q, substance, remember to have substance. My biases are irrelevant. Sick to the facts. This may help you:

//atheism.about.com/c/ec/6.htm

Sweet dreams with a twist

MKO has no place in the future of Iran. Secular, or not; Democratic, or not. There is no room for traitors, and their corrupt, Orwellian leadership.

The Spirit of Norooz, IRI Regime Change

The only option to free Iran is to change this IRI religious dictatorship and establish a secular democratic government. To this end all Iranians in Diaspora regardless of their present political affiliation or past allegiance are welcome and needed. Either collectively or individually you can make a difference by opposing IRI interests in any way possible, abroad or in Iran. Ultimately the Iranians must rise up and get rid of this plague of a regime, but we can help them by stopping those individuals and organizations that promote and support IRI.

Of course we can resort to our common Persian courtesy and hospitality by avoiding derogatory labels, IRI excluded, and keep an open mind in examining arguments. Please check out www.mehr.org for some information.  

Happy Norooz to all lovers of Persian culture and heritage.  

Sure Jamshid, I "deliberately mixed" your sentences

This is nothing but a weak attempt to confuse and evade the major points raised in my previous post. None of the arguments I made are dependent on "mixing" two back-to-back sentences in the same paragraph. What does that even mean?

Oh please! I don't need to be educated on the slander King Hassan Dai. I can't say I'm surprised you would take the 100% baseless word of a known character hitman. Ask yourself why you are so psychologically ready to take anybody's anti-NIAC words at face value. Could it be because you are just looking for a way of affirming your own biases exactly as I described? Now please educate yourself:
//www.juancole.com/2009/11/neocons-islamic-ma...
//www.iran-interlink.org/?mod=view&id=3094

And while your at it, study about a man named "Professor Rabbi Daniel M. Zucker".

Whatever. I'm not going to argue with you. People can read our words for themselves and decide.

Q

"I really have to thank you for the perfect demonstration of exactly the kind of nonsense that unfortunately dominates some Iranians' way of thinking."

Q, you are welcome. It is gratifying to find out that you are finally ready for a change of behavior. My many comments to you must have had some effects on you to say this.

You wrote a long comment (too long) on the following premise:

Jamshid wrote: NIAC's tone is too similar to IRI's and this alone raises suspicions among many. I still believe that NIAC is a regime tool, geared to the reformists side, but still a regime tool.

Q responds: This way of thinking emphasizes making decisions based on "tone" and "feelings" and "appearances", and not about substance or evidence.

You are deliberately mixing my two sentences. The first sentence was meant to tell NIAC that they can't consider all those who don't agree with NIAC to be neocons, zionists, mko, monarchists, etc. Because this sounds too much like IRI folks, it will be detrimental to their own image and raises suspicions among many Iranian Americans. 

My second sentence is my personal belief and it is not based on NIAC's tone. Rather it is based on NIAC's close association to regime elements. To further educate yourself regarding this associations and related substance and evidence, you may want to pay closer attention to NIAC's lawsuite againt Daei's claims.

You may feel that Daei's claims are all invalid. Others may beg to differ.

I will not respond to the rest of your comments since as describe above, they are based on a false premise to begin with. That's logic 101.

Perfect demonstration

Jamshid, I really have to thank you for the perfect demonstration of exactly the kind of nonsense that unfortunately dominates some Iranians' way of thinking.

NIAC's tone is too similar to IRI's and this alone raises suspicions among many. I still believe that NIAC is a regime tool, geared to the reformists side, but still a regime tool.

This way of thinking emphasizes making decisions based on "tone" and "feelings" and "appearances", and not about substance or evidence.

Your declaration that NIAC is a "regime tool" is of course completely without proof, there is no disputing this. But nevertheless canard's like this are repeated by some narrow minded Iranians excusing things like "tone"(!) when they can't produce any logic or evidence.

Come to think of it, your own tone is a lot like the MEK. You and Maryam Rajavi both hate the IRI. You both attack anybody who advocates peace with Iran. You both don't believe any reform is possible. You both think even the Green opposition leaders are lying and are regime-owned. You both advocate for a western style liberal democracy. You both think the top priority of every Iranian should be the overthrow of the system and not preventing war or sanctions.

It sounds like your "tone" is exactly that of the MEK. So according to your logic, people should be justified in calling you a "MEK tool" based on your tone alone. But I don't do that and never have. Why? Because it's a stupid, narrow-minded way to judge people.

You see how this works Jamshid? Are you perceptive enough to detect the irony here?

I do this to illustrate a point with you Jamshid. A point that I have made before but which you always seem to forget. "Tone" is in the eye of the beholder. Making ridiculous and baseless accusations like you are doing might get some anger off your chest but it does not advance any Iranian cause whatsoever. In fact, you continuously pave the way for actual, real, hard-line supporters of the regime to be even more influential. All someone has to do is "call" themself anti-IRI, or say "F*** Khamenei" and you would be eating out of their hand like a trained pigeon.

Is this smart in your opinion? One wonders if you and people who think like you are actually against the regime, or you are just against the "tone" of the regime!!! Think about it!

You also brilliantly prove my point below that people like yourself who have have frequently negative-only "concerns" (called "concern trolling" in online communities) are not genuine and should not be taking seriously by NIAC or anybody else. You have decided that since NIAC, the largest and most influential Iranian-American organization, is not doing exactly what you want the way you want it, it must be "regime tool". You feel justified to be this judgemental based on the flimiest excuses ("tone"!!!!) which only proves that yours is not a real concern but just a form of attack. Exactly like paying $Millions to do negative advertising on TV against a rival candidate. You do this knowing that there are constructive ways to change NIAC (for example join it write a letter to it) but since these are only excuses, you are not interested.

This is a completely shallow and narrow-minded behavior that unfortunately is not uncommon in the Iranian community. However, I believe that NIAC has pioneered a new era and these attitudes are dying with the obsolete fossils that have promoted them for decades.

Negin:

Excellent observations.

There is a major campaign

There is a major campaign going on to undermine NIAC and eliminate the only Iranian-American voice on Capitol Hill. On the forefront you have some Iranian individuals who are usually connected to the MKO or the Monarchists; in the background you have neo-conservative funding and guidance.

The above seems to identical to IRI's propaganda. So when Negin, possibly aka NIAC, comes out and says something right out of the pages of the IRI's book, then how can they expect folks like me to trust this organization?

For instance, why can't they have a more neutral and civil view and accept that there are many "ordinary" Iranian Americans who still suspect NIAC and its intentions? Why those have to be either neocons, monarchists, mko or aipac agents? Why can't they be just ordinary everyday Iranian Americans?

NIAC's tone is too similar to IRI's and this alone raises suspicions among many. I still believe that NIAC is a regime tool, geared to the reformists side, but still a regime tool. If that makes me a neocon or monarchist or aipac agent, etc., then so be it. I suggest NIAC to sue me.

I like it!

It is very interesting to see how ignorance knows no bounds and how the remnants of Reagan-esque neoconism are still prevalent in the Republican mind-warp. The classic assumption that an entire heritage can be distilled down to the rantings of a few religious lunatics, and therefore carried to the extreme of not wishing Iranians a happy Norooz is baffling.

I would have liked to see some language about how the very same Republican party foreign policy failures are the prime reason the IRI has managed to grow it's tail of late. But that is too much to hope for, and who wants to see a Republican's head explode... well actually that sounds pretty good now that I think about it!

Great letter and greater idea to send flowers and Dumas' book. Although now you will likely have the Tea Bagger...er... Party, or as I like to call them the Republican Basijis, on your tail too!

Good comment Negin_a

Thank you for your comment.

Dear Negin - you are partly correct

The majority of the real attacks towards NIAC have come from the Neo-Con/Hassan Dai (MKO)/AIPAC trio, with some of the most damning evidence listed in Pages 18-22 of the suit filed by NIAC against Dai.    Hassan Dai is a know MKO member.  The remaining people screaming aloud against NIAC have been hanging on to the trio’s coat, repeating the trio’s talking points.  You can see some misunderstandings even in this blog where someone is screaming “where have you been for the last 31 years”, when in reality, NIAC has been in existence for 7 years.

The reason the Neo-Con/Hassan Dai/AIPAC trio have been against NIAC is mainly due to policy differences when it comes to dealing with Iran.  While NIAC encouraged dialogue with Iran (less now, since the brutal attacks on demonstrations) is against war, and wants the world to address the brutalities of this regime, the trio used to encourage war and surgical strikes against the regime in Iran.  NIAC also encouraged laws to ease the sanctions against the people of Iran.

While the congress partly addressed the concerns of NIAC as well as the neocons right before Christmas by adopting policies suggested by NIAC, the White House agreed with NIAC and is pursuing policies for the people and against IRI and its agents.  Lately, there is evidence that the neocons are also adopting the policy of “for the people and against IRI” (see the two speeches by Richard Haass and Michael Ledeen) in a blog that I posted.  Unfortunately, the opinion by Haass is no longer available in youtube, but you see excerpts in my blog.

As a result of this convergence of policy by neocons and NIAC, the assaults by the neocons towards NIAC have stopped, but its remnants in the Iranian Diaspora have remained.

nope, not on rafsanjanis payroll

lol, amazing niac supports game plan say anyone that is against them is a neocon. haha doesnt work. people just dont like their ways.  also niac always has interns posting on all these sites in support and those interns are good young people who dont know what is going on. 

even the leaders of the green movement say niac for the regime, are they neocons are they. 

good luck

Sean 2...

and here is another post from you Sean - again, praising RP...

//iranian.com/main/news/2009/11/03/iran-w...  

and another one praising RP...

//iranian.com/main/news/2009/10/27/cries-...

Seems like all you do on Iranian.com is:

1. Attack NIAC

2. Praise RP

3. Argue for sanctions.

I hope AIPAC and the neo-cons pay you well for doing this, because these three points top their agenda - and incidentally yours!

Sean....

Interesting comment Sean - with no basis whatsoever. You actually prove my point, because you yourself just posted this recently:

//iranian.com/main/news/2009/12/15/reza-pahlavi-bbc 

Reza Pahlavi on BBC, in which your own comment was: "I agree with him on a lot.  We need to rally together."

Nothing wrong with being pro-Pahlavi. But please do not pretend that the Monarchists are'nt indeep with the neo-cons with the aim of destroying NIAC.

And on that subject, what has RP done in the past 30 years to warrant any support? Where was he when the STEP act was introduced? Where was he when they tried to steal our Persepolis tablets? Where was he when his neo-con funders where trying to bomb Iran? Where was he when Iranian-Americans were discriminated against?

NIAC is doing allmost all the heavy lifting in our community, and all you can do is complain and lie. Not very different from what RP does, huh?

If you cared for Iran one ounce, you would thank NIAC for all the great work they do, and then criticize them for whatever you think they shouldnt do. But you can't do that, because your purpose is not to advance Iran. Your purpsoe seems to be something completely different.

NO Thank you Trita

Yes there major campaign going on to undermine NIAC and eliminate the only Iranian-American group that supports the Rafsanjani camp and hides it.

 And NIAC is incorrect saying the only people against them are mko and monarchists.  I know many many Iranian Americans who are democrats who think that Trita twists everyones words like and is out for the benefit of rafsanjani and reformists.

Thank yo NIAC!

It has been interesting to follow this discussion. I wish NIAC reps would comment on these discussions and address the many lies and non-sense accusations that are constantly brought forward in the comments section.

A friend of mine has been involved in NIAC or Parsi for some time. I recently asked her why NIAC doesn’t make comments on Iranian.com. Her response was something as follows:

“There is a major campaign going on to undermine NIAC and eliminate the only Iranian-American voice on Capitol Hill. On the forefront you have some Iranian individuals who are usually connected to the MKO or the Monarchists; in the background you have neo-conservative funding and guidance. Entering the commenting game is not really possible, because the neo-cons have hired PR firms to sit day in and day out and make negative comments on NIAC posts, using fake Iranian names. “Fred” is almost always the first commenter on any NIAC post – within seconds of the posting of the article. That’s because the PR firm monitors a few websites very closely and immediately moves in to attack NIAC”

I found this very interesting. I don’t know if this is true or not, but it certainly looks plausible. There are a few profiles on Iranian.com that seem to do NOTHING else but attack NIAC. It seems to be a day and night job for them. Perhaps they are getting paid for their service.

It was indeed interesting to see that a post said that Iranians hate NIAC.

I spend a lot of time in LA. And indeed, there are some Iranians there that hate everything except Reza Pahlavi. But when I attended Ramin Jahanbegloo’s talk at UCLA a few weeks back, something interesting happened.

Suddenly, Jahanbeglo’s face lit up and he waved at someone in the audience. I turned back and saw that Trita Parsi had just entered the room. Later in the pause, Parsi and Jahanbeglou embraced each. Now, this is the same Jahanbeglou that was held by the regime for several months in solitary confinement in Evin. Clearly, he – as a prime victim of the Iranian government – did not seem to “hate” Parsi or NIAC – quite the contrary.

Lying is easy. Complaining is easy. Doing nothing is easy.

My hats off to NIAC for being the only Iranian-American organization that actually does something. As some commentators pointed out, they singlehandedly defeated the STEP act. Everyone knows the key position they played in preventing war.

And they played a key role in passing the Nowruz resolution. I thought the letter to the two republicans was brilliant. Of course they should – and I assume they have – thanked the 350 or so who voted in favor of the resolution (who voted in favor of the resolution BECAUSE of NIAC), but it was a very smart step to point out the ridiculous reasoning of the two Republicans that voted against it. It’s a smart strategy because it makes it more difficult for them to vote against it next time. Clearly, NIAC has a very thought through strategy, and they follow it meticulously.

Only people like this Darius Kadivar on this list seems to side with Republicans voting against Nowruz – shows that many of these Monarchists don’t love Iran, don’t love Iran’s culture or the Iranian people – they ONLY love the Monarchy. They would be more than happy if Iran was destroyed, as long as Reza Pahlavi was reinstated as the Shah of a country that no longer would exist…

I understand why NIAC doesn’t get involved in these discussions, I guess, but I had to get this off my chest.

aynak

You are wrong in your assessments. This would not be corrected had Trita Parsi changed the title of this blog.

However, it would have been corrected, if his campaign was in parallel with a similar campaign against the Iranian government officials who are openly against our ancient traditions.

And the fact that NIAC is an American entity doesn't change this.

There is nothing wrong in writing letters to congressmen. However there were more than 350 positive votes already. That alone is success. Now with such limited resources, should we write to the other two congressmen or to our own government officials?

It is these fine lines that had made so many people suspicious of NIAC.

Good observation aynak

You have a good point here. Perhaps would have been more constructive to thank the congress and point out the two individuals who voted no and leave it at that. Thanks for bringing in another angle.

I think there is a big misunderstanding here (or I hope)

Starting with the incorrect title of this post:

" Open Letter to Congressmen refusing to wish the Iranian people a Happy Norooz"

The above title I believe is the root of much unnecessary discussion here.

The title should have read:

" Open Letter to Congressmen voting against Nourouz".

What most posters including Trita are not considering is that a congress person can abstain on a vote.   That means, even some times when they disagree with something they would look the other way.  The difference is significant, as it makes a resolution with no "nay" votes  just perfect, even if there are abstained votes.

But the issue here is not that the said congressman "refused to wish Iranians happy Norooz", every person is entitled to wish another person a happy Norou, that is a basic freedom of choice.

However, to reject the passage of a --Well Wish-- for the entire population because of ahmadi nejad or khamanei who themselves are AGAINST norouz, is just misguided.  Did the world stop saying Merry Christmas because Hitler was a Christian?  (I think the said 2 congressmen should respond to that analogy rather well, it works at the Oscars every time).

We need to clarify that all Iranian celebrations, be it Norouz, be it Charshanbeh souri or be it Seisdah Bedar etc, are  torns in the eyes of Islamic dictators ruling Iran. 

Please refer to my writing here, for further explanation.

//iranian.com/main/blog/aynak-3

In the end, it is amuzing how some Iranians, can find justification or even like to encourage not recognizing Norouz under the guise of fighting IRI!    If they sit back and take a deep breath, they realize, it is our very own Iranian-ness and Persian culture that is recognized by U.S,  when such motion is passed by congress.   They  should not be defending anyone rejecting this great tradition of ours, that has nothing but Love and Happiness, and is one of the most beatufiul way of celebrating the new year on earth.   Think 50 or 100 years from now, when there will be no Ahmadi Njead or Khamanee,  this is a permanent mark in U.S congress, and it will not be viewed as "oh at that time such and such happened".   

As an Iranian-American, I would like to thank all the members of congress who voted "yes" for this measure and also all the Iranian-Americans who introduced this bill to  the U.S congress in the first place.  It takes a lof of effort to introduce and pass  such motion, with near perfect votes,   and all Iranians should be thankful and proud of this accomplishment.

Thanks.

Thank your enemies.Make them your friends.

Two can be one.

But it is up two,not one.

Soon,we will all be at our end.

It is up to you,to be a friend.

My thanks to NIAC for a job well done.

Now the rest go and keep fighting as if that gets us any where?

The warmongers are getting bolder and the IRI is getting double bolder (I threw that in so you can make fun of my English) and we are fighting for some technicalities.

Mehrdad

So what?!

Expected 100% vote? as in Saddam's Iraq?

This is democracy.

Moving on ...

Ramming and Jamming

Are fine so long as they get the job done and Hale Luja This job Is almost done. Beats going back and redoing everything, just for the sake of postponing thing yet another year. Now as i mentioned before, Get ready and make room for more On Immigration and Other NECESSARY reforms.

NO more Dilly dallying Brothers and sisters.

Tree-thaw! Tree-thaw! Tree-Thaw! Tree-thaw! Tree-thaw! Treethaw!

Everything is sacred.