Misc

Another day in IRI utopia, but the bright side is

that they have scared Israel and it may and give hezbollah its land back.  What do you say?  Ha? Fair trade off?  

Where is Mola the Camel

....... to explain to the women of the world why he thinks IRI will "survive for another 50 years".

Reporters sans frontières may help with their latest report.

//en.rsf.org/predators2010-03-05-2010,37235.html

stoning is a cruel and unjust ancient punishment

Even back then, Jesus was quoted as saying:

"Let He Who is Without Sin Cast the First Stone"

Stoning is a cruel and unjust ancient punishment left over from Judaism and Chistianity.  However, only Muslim countries that subscribe to the cruel Shari'a laws still practice this aweful punishment. Unfortunately, even moderate but ta'assobi Muslims still believe in this death penalty especially in adaultry, e.g., "a survey carried out in August 2009 found that 83% of Pakistanis believe that adulterers should be stoned.*"

* Pew Report: Pakistani Public Opinion - Growing Concerns about Extremism, Continuing Discontent with U.S.Religion, Law, and Society Page 3

The worst part is

...... there are people in the West, those considering AN as the regional "torch of freedom and independence", who refuse to aknowledge it, ie. they dismiss it as being "american propaganda".

Eventually, I ended up thinking they're right, I'm wrong.  But then, there was a story reported in January 2009 whereby the IRI judiciary itself confirmed the stoning of 2 men in Mashhad (the 3rd struggled out of the hole).

To Raoul55

Sorry this post has turned out to be so long.

I haven't watched this video (my mirror-neurons can't take bullfighting, chicken farms etc....), as I was violently sick by a clip a few years ago. Even more --- is that some women beg to be stoned rather than hanged, because they have a chance of survival.

"To make it short, the logical approach is to institute secular dictatorships under the US control in these countries.  Some may claim that there were ‘human rights’ violations even in countries that were under our government’s control."

That's not a "claim", but a fact. The dictatorship of the Pahlavi's was so revolting, that you seem to forget was so terrible that people were forced to revolt.  Instead of insisting on going backwards to the mental morgue of
monarchy/oligarchy, -  the people of every sovereign nation have legal international
rights.

I'm afraid that no, the logical approach is to uphold International Law as stipulated in the UN Charta (including those of a sovereign nation) and UN's Declaration of Human Rights. Force does not eliminate force  (remember Medusa)nor stupidity.

People have a right to a form of proportional representation.

Why should the US, an emblem of a precious value, that of the concept of liberty, impose and prop up dictatorships in other countries?

From your other post:

"Our intellectual and moral growth depends on us being able to 'judge' one system versus another, otherwise we shall fail in life as individuals and as societies. "

That's a rather limited view. It's not a competition. Intellectual and moral growth depends on education, compassion, dialogue, imagination, enquiry and above all questioning. Questioning of everything including the method of forms of "self"-criticism.

If one set of cavemen compared themselves to another set of cavemen, no one would get out of their caves! (;)

"With or without religion,
you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil
things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion." - Steven Weinberg 

I'd add (as in the situation in Iraq, Iran etc.) 'follow the money'. (From international corporations to those who claim *god*.)

Elimination of poverty, decent fair distribution of the earth's resources of which we are all custodians not owners,  the treatment of mental illnesses like greed and worship (of anything and anyone), education, technology, these are the things that carry people out of the darkness of superstition and above all upholding International law and improving it.

Otherwise it really is worse than the law of the jungle and people really aren't fundamentally that different from country to country and  seem to love watching "entertaining " idiocies like game shows on TV (Orwellian...) or as recently evident, they relish watching public hangings (see figures of people watching sadddam's execution), which is unbelievably bizarre, especially when the same people are too sensitive to see nipples.

Hello Sean (meaning Yochanan ben Zechariah or John the Baptist)

(and yes, you did guess right...;) and it turns out that I had you pegged on the Virtual Iranian.com Tour of Iran blog)

Marjan (meaning coral)

good point, hamsade

i never thought of it, but i entirely agree, as you say:

"i've seen demonstration by devout muslims protesting cartoons but never have i seen them demonstrating honor killings, stonings, execution of children, .... "

this is particularly puzzling in the west, where they are liberty to protest against these things. that is, unless the dictatorship of political correctness is oppressing them.

disturbing

another heinous act to silence women in iran.  as if executions are not harsh enough, some women are subject to rape and torture before their death under this brutal regime.  all under the name of islam.

humanbeing, as you say, you're an optimist.  even if a devout muslim (who has power or clout) is against this act, he does not have the courage to speak out which makes him complicit in these acts of horror.  i've seen demonstration by devout muslims protesting cartoons but never have i seen them demonstrating honor killings, stonings, execution of children, ....

raoul, although, your solution of 'knight in the shining armor' coming to rescue the damsel in stress sounds palpable for some when confronted with sense of helplessness, u.s. has installed too many unsustainable dictatorships in its young history that refutes your desired outcome.  iran (shah), phillipines (marcos), nicaragua (somoza), chile (pinochet), el salvador (hernandez), honduras (cordova), ...  before you defend any of these actions by the u.s., ask people from these countries how they feel about these dictators. my favorite quote from franklin d. roosevelt regarding somoza of nicaragua: "somoza may be a son of a bitch, but he's our son of a bitch."

thanks raoul

you are brave to speak without the political correctness de rigeur among people e.g. in america. you also have the advantage that you are able to comment in this way in the culture and religion into which i assume you were born.

being entirely politically incorrect, 'uncivilized', and inhumane, if i ever got my hands on one of the perpetrators of stoning, acid throwing, or other crimes of this sort, (a specialty among muslims in the country where i ilve is 'honour killing', even in secularized populations with non-hijab, a friend of mine has made a movie of this for the bbc), i would personally perform a rerun circumcision on them.

Response to 'humanbeing'

Most readers are too abhorred by these atrocities to comment on it, besides what can one write other than condemning the Iranian system?

I have to preface this by stating that many readers will get upset at my response, although it is fact-based.
I am not a social scientist hence my opinions should not be taken as authoritative ones. Not long ago there was an Iraq ruled by a secular dictator who fell out of favor with our [federal] government.  He was replaced with a democratic regime that allowed elections and such…
It is now a few years later and we have observed the following [on a massive scale] that did not exist under the previous secular [dictatorship] regime:

1) Christians are being assaulted, killed, and their women raped by Islamic folks;

2) Non-muslims are being forced out of many Iraqi territories;

3) Islamic women who do not wear hijab are being assaulted by men who throw acid on their faces, a practice very common among Iranian muslims;

One can list many other issues arising from letting these nations adopt ‘democracy’ in the sense of majority ruling via elections.  These countries are not [culturally] ready for pluralistic democracies.

Islam does NOT allow for any variation from its principles, hence there cannot be such a thing as ‘modernized Islam’

To make it short, the logical approach is to institute secular dictatorships under the US control in these countries.  Some may claim that there were ‘human rights’ violations even in countries that were under our government’s control.  There are always ‘human rights’ violations, but which condition is better for these people?  Realistically speaking, and not in a wishful way.

i agree raoul

these are all barbaric acts, and any community who commits them ought to be judged.

are you able to envision an evolved islam or an evolved somalia or saudi without these behaviours?

how do we go about throwing out the bathwater without throwing out the baby?

how do you get people to care and be outraged at this? these kinds of blogs always get a lot less attention than the ones about ideology or busrides.

To 'humanbeing'

Our intellectual and moral growth depends on us being able to 'judge' one system versus another, otherwise we shall fail in life as individuals and as societies.  Stoning could be in all sorts of systems, but ONLY muslims practice such, unless you have examples of 'Christian' nations in modern times that follow Iranian examples.  We know that Saudi's behead their women before football games, and Somalis have started stoning as part of their Islamic [not Christian] system.  I should add that Islamic Somalis are killing the Christian Somalis.

vpk, i wish you were wrong, but i fear you are right

i am the eternal optimist.

i will check to see if there are any counterexamples among proclamations of clerics.  if any one else has one, let me know.

judaism doesn't enact these laws in the jewish state. but a woman cannot get a divorce without the husband's approval. there is circumcision (ok, only male circumcision, but they are also humans!) and it is practiced universally at 8 days, with no anaesthetic.

This is

what Islamists do and have done from day one. Now watch IRI apologists justify this. The truth is that Islamists are fierce against the weak. They are cowards against the strong. That is why a lone helpless woman is stoned. But when the Western troops come they all run and hide like the rats they are.

Humanbeing: no devout Islamist clerics will condemn this. It is a part of Sharia. It is a part of the relgiion and they buy into it 100%. One is either and Islamist and acts this way. Or civilized and does not. No way both.

VPK

don't they have mothers, sisters, daughters?

in the photo of shrowding, you see a man holding a dossier with papers. he must be a functionary. is this a routine day's work? fieldwork for a bureaucrat?

i am not judging islam here. stoning is also in the bible, mostly for unfaithful or 'rebellious' women.

there are many devout islamic clerics who i am sure themselves would condemn stoning. it's a thing about humans not recognizing their fellows' humanity.

i am going to throw up.

Chilling !

What sort of people can do it to a fellow human being ?

Very Disturbing

I am writing this knowing full well that many [so-called] Iranians will get upset.

The Iranian 'independence' movement that toppled a fully Westernized monarchy in favor of an Iranian regime has taught the world two major lessons:

1)     Islam is a savage and violent cult that brings out the worst in those who are prone to violence, as we have witnessed how savage Iranian judicial system has become;

2)     Culturally backward nations which include all Middle Eastern, African, some Asian, and South and Central American nations, should be 'managed' by secular regimes installed by the US.

Hopefully our CIA in conjunction with other services from Russia and China will replace this Islamic regime with a secular military governing body to 'manage' Iran for a few decades just to root out Islamic culture that has made the basis of the Iranian mores.  Ironically the film producers have fully Arabic names.   Perhaps they can change their names to a normal name as a protest to the 7th century Arabic value system currently in place in their country. 

....

Thank you for sharing. The film director is very courageous! Hopefully the barbaric practice can end one day!