QUESTION

The Iranian experience of Islam

To Melody Moezzi:

The following are some of the experiences of Iranians about Islam.

The first introduction of Islam to Iranians was accompanied with the persecution of Zoroastrians.  That is how Islam in the year 637 was first introduced to the Persians:  the desert doweling Bedouin Arab Moslems persecuting the Zoroastrians in Iran.  The following link would tell you how it happened:

1.  Persecution of Zoroastrians (started on 637):

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Zoroastrians

The second wave of persecution was during the Safavid dynasty.  This time it was persecution of Sunni Moslems by Shia Moslems.

2.  The Safavid conversion of Iran from Sunnism to Shiism (started on 1501):

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safavid_conversion_of_Iran_from_Sunnism_to_Shiism

The third wave of persecution was during the Ghajar dynasty, mainly during Nasseradin Shah.  This time the Bahá'ís were being persecuted by the Shia Moslems.

3.      The persecution of Bahá'ís (started on 1844):

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Bah%C3%A1'%C3%ADs

The fourth killing of a large group of people was setting fire in a movie theatre in the city of Abadan:

4.  The Cinema Rex fire (August 19, 1978)

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinema_Rex_fire

The last but not the least wave of killings took place on the summer of 1988.  These executions included mostly the members of People’s Mujahedin Organization (PMOI) and also the Communists.

5.  The 1988 executions of political prisoners in Iran:

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1988_executions_of_Iranian_political_prisoners

This has been the experience of Iranians under Islam since the year 637.  This is what this nation has experienced since day number one when Islam entered into Iran.  The experience has been persecution, killing, rape, enslavement, murder, assassination, execution, torture and many other methods of violence, discrimination and sanctions for the past 1373 years.

Why a nation should suffer for so long and so wide spread and so severe?  Why should a society go through so much pain and agony under this religion?  How long this would continue and why?  What this people have done to deserve so much hate, violence, genocide and being massacred in a grand scale nationwide?  How do you stop this killing monster?  What does it take to confront this?  All these questions but what is the answer?

David Ramezani

Let's put it simply

Those who've just killed 50 Pakistanis couldn't care less about your religion.

Spanish Basks, Brigate Rosse, etc do not go round killing people in Germany, Netherlands, whatever the country. They stay in their little corner.

At the same time, those who blow themselves killing 50 people in London, Madrid, Karachi have one thing in common. 

Bringing France into this is just showing more ignorance.

"what’s political islam"

Good question, and you are right there is no unique form of political islam. But that is the case for all political ideologies. I see political islam as nothing but a fascistic movement, which was formed as a reaction to modern secular ideas bombarding the minds of young muslims in early twentieth century.  Muslim brotherhood in Egypt and ali shariati's ideology in Iran are prime examples of this. The off springs of both these thoughts , Al_Qaeda and in particular modern day islamic republic are openly fascist entities. Just look at some of the rhetorics from ahmadinezhad these days: From cyrus cylinder charade, to attempts in giving "limited personal, not political  freedom" to people, in exchange for people's acceptance of their fascistic system and rule...

Bottom line, "political islam"' is using people's religious sentiments for a fascistic agenda. Just sctratch the surface and you'll see not a bin laden or khomeini, but a Hitler and mussolini!

In all fairness

This article was on Huffington Post and although author is registered with IC but that does not mean she knows about this being published here to answer. At times JJ puts the pre-published articles here with the name of the author. 

No Response!

Because the author has none! She simply hasn't done her homework. She is as much a Muslim and defender of Muslims' cause--whatever that is--as the Tajik dancer, Laili, in a recent video on IC, is an undercover agent for a Jihadist organization.

The totality of the majority

Blame all on islam... I would ask if you people actually believe that this world is that simple that one given reeeehhhhligion can be blamed for all the issues, but I already know the answer.

Rolls eyes, goes back to drinking his cafe.

Author has totally missed the point!

Islam Sharia is a threat to freedom . This is not about Phobia, but the way of life and our individual and human rights

Why no Response Melody Khanom?

You posted this blog, but are completely ignoring everyone's comments. That's quite Islamic !! of you. Payandeh Iran, our Ahuraie Fatherland

Here is another statement that it is worth re-posting

"anyone who considers himself/herself a muslim and does not stand up against atrocities committed in the name of his/her religion and instead tries to blame the negative image of muslims on the kafirs/west/non-believers is duplicitous at best"

Amen to that.  And I can think of much more appropriate term for it but will refrain from saying it out loud.

Mehrdad

what’s political islam

what’s political islam anyway?  the sunni version initiated by muhammad?  the shiite version initiated by iranians? the one that divides the world into “muslims” and “kafirs?” the one that advocates that the whole world will one day be dominated by the caliphate?  the one that advocates that the whole world will one day be dominated by mahdi and his velayat faghih? is this a new phenomenon?  is the ultimate caliphate and velayat faghih “a response to the injustice and tyranny of the west?”  help me understand.

anyone who considers himself/herself a muslim and does not stand up against atrocities committed in the name of his/her religion and instead tries to blame the negative image of muslims on the kafirs/west/non-believers is duplicitous at best (i can think of much more vile terms).  if one considers himself/herself a muslim and does not want to get into the discussion, then fine.  otherwise, it’s not being honest or genuine to merely lay the blame on the media and the so-called “islamophobes” for the negative image of islam and muslims.  as c.o.p. stated, muslims are the main culprit in killing, maiming, and torturing other muslims. 

i like to ask the author when was the last time she criticized muslims for viewing a 9-year old girl as an adult?  or criticized prophet muhammad for taking a 9-year old as wife? or criticized against burying women up to their chest and stoning them to death?  or criticize against a woman’s word or inheritance is worth half that of a man’s?  or criticized basing slavery in sharia law?  fear, i tell you, the shear terror of being harmed or her family being harmed would be enough for her not to publicly pursue these topics.  the terror, by those who apply it.  what are they called again?

The original colonizers were Islamic armies

rise of "political Islam" has been in response to the injustice and tyranny

I don't agree that Islam's inherent nature is non-political. Whether colonization by the West or colonization by the East vis a vis, Islamic armies, gave rise to Shia religion or its Khomeinist version of  in our country , that is whole other subject.

Whe was the last time

that one of these muslim nations denounced the acts of terrorism carried out by muslim extremists?

Islamophobia is a made-up word. It does not exists and whatever does exist is real! I too am afraid of those who would not blink to sever a head or take of a limb because of a religious "cause". Doesn't religion teach you to be loving to your fellow person, to care and to help? In the case of islam, the answer is ....may be and only if you're another muslim which brings me to the next important point: Muslims killing Muslims.

Why do the people who practice this loving peaceful religion kill each other by the dozens? The news this morning of a suicide bomber who killed over 50 people in a recruiting office in Iraq comes to mind. Perhaps it is OK for them to kill each other, but no one else should. Much like it is OK for blacks to call each other niggers, but no one else should! 

And hezbollahis like this sargord character have the audacity to post pictures of children killed in heaven know what manner and blame the war. For the record, I do not support any wars any place. For all we know the child with the severed head was killed by a bearded puke who said "allaho-akbar" before swinging his macheti.

Stop defending Islam. Islam burned our Persian house and now has returned to take down the foundation. The workers, this time around, were hired from within!

Here are some reading material about muslims killing each other..

//www.americanthinker.com/2010/06/muslims_killing_muslims_in_the.html

__

//www.investigativeproject.org/design/new/2008/mansur-ignoring-muslim-on-muslim-violence

__________

IRAN FIRST

____________

Vildemose Jaan: "Worth re-posting, even if on the same thread"

While I agree with this statement 100%, it is also essential to note that some of the rise of "political Islam" has been in response to the injustice and tyranny of the West vise a vis the Muslim nations. The sad and tragic part is that unlike India or other nations who rose against colonization, slaveization (if there is such word) and theft of their people/resources, they went in the positive and forward direction where as with "political Islam" and these groups, they have chosen a backward, brutal and more oppressive system.

Mehrdad

Color me Islamophobe, but

Color me Islamophobe, but I'm really afraid of those zealot basijis roaming around in the streets of Tehran to do their amer be maroof, nahay az monker or those who think marrying and raping a virgin before her execution is a Savab and they are doing it in the name of Islam and salvation, the same with those Tavab saz creatures who think tortuing people (tabooting) into subjugation and belief in Islam is a "godly" deed.

Worth re-posting, even if on the same thread.

by Roozbeh_Gilani on Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:54 PM PST

only since the arrival of "political islam" and the birth of it's bastard twin offsprings; the islamist regime of Iran and Al_Qaeda, have the muslims around the world been treated with such extreme suspicion, hatred, discrimination and lack of sympathy. Only with the collapse of above two evil entities can muslims start looking forward to a better future for themselves, their children and indeed  their relligion.

The other night last week

I saw a video from Pakistan on youtube about 3 or 4 in the morning.It was removed in about a hour.They had 2 torso's they were draining the blood out of into buckets.Then it showed 2 severed heads,facing each other..I will tell you what you should call them -call them DEAD.. After that,if you want to call them Dead Muslims,Dead Terrorists,Dead Islamists,I don't really care about your confusion.

Deev

Forget the statues. How about killing of all the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza. That when he was in a good mood! //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muhammad_and_Jews#Ban...

bushtheliberator

I used to really like that song "Barbara Ann". Now I just see McCain when I hear it. It sort of takes something away from it :-(

As for Balouhistan!! 

• Please know it is "Balouchistan".
• Do you know who "Yagoub Laith Saffari" was? If not then please do not talk about "Persian Impersialism". Here go read //en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ya%27qub-i_Laith_Saff...

Moslems are the greatest threat

Read "Clash of Civilizations" by Samuel P. Huntington, he points out that 2/3 of all major conflicts in the world involve Moslems and that number alone tells me Islam is a violent religion.
If Islam was about tolerance Mohammad would had not destroyed all the statues in Kaba when he claimed prophecy.

dear Veiled Prophet. I hope it's not that" Bomb,Bomb,Iran" thing

we DO enjoy singing it,but it's purely emotional,not operational.

So. no need to worry about "right wing idiots in USA " until the IRI idiots announce that they have nukes.You should possibly resume worrying in 2013.

So,until we meet again ;" END PERSIAN IMPERIALISM ! fREE BALOUHISTAN !

All religions are imperfect! Who needs religion if

you are well read and practice the persian/Iranian culture? Religion is only a guidance, but it includes threats of punishment if you don't follow it accordingly. Persian culture has great poets who provide you with all the guidance that one needs in order to live a decent humanitarian life without threatening you with any punishment if you don't follow them.

Read hafez, ferdowsi, omar khayyam, molavi, etc. you don't need quran or bible anymore. All religions have been mis-used and abused by men creating wars and enemosities. Islam has many good things, but there are bad things too as any other religion. . Don't demonize it totally! If you do, demonize them all, to be fair! But, I wouldn't!

religions rule through fear and intimidation. it works, if you don't know any better. ......you don't have to have a religion if you have a better alternative which many do. Whatever works for you helpping to be good!   how many of you follow - Good word, deeds, and thoughts?

"God is love!"

Melody

There are reasons why the Islamist groups, especially the Jihadist Al Queda, are considered the most dangerous and hated amongst all other terrorist groups.  Three are offered below:

 1. The Islamist groups are most interested in staging "spectacular" events with lots of casualties.  So, while Osama is desperately seeking a nuclear device and has got the fatwa to perform terrorist acts  (//www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/news/osama.ht...) even in the residential areas in many western countries (fatwa issued by Mamdouh Mahmud Salim), the activities of the separatist groups are more localized and they are content with staging demonstrations or a bomb here and there.

2. The voices of moderation amongst Muslims were rare and practically non-existent especially amongst the leading Shaikhs/Ayatollahs (we hear some now, but not nearly enough).  In the begining, we hardly ever heard a group of leading Shaikhs/Ayatollahs to come out and denounce terrorism.  Instead, the most noted criticism of the 9/11 act that was offered was that Osama did not send a warning to the US residents that they should convert to Islam before the US was attacked on 9/11.  Osama fixed that in his next video message, of course.

3. There is no differentiation amongst the Islamist groups and Bush administration bunched them all in one package.  Remember the axis of evil speech?  Well, he had to put N. Korea to make it more universal.  But, as a result, Al Qaeda, Hamas, Hezbollah, IRI, Taliban.....are considered Islamist terrorists and beaten with the same stick.  Nonetheless, the ultimate goal of Islamism is to reinstate the Khaliph-type rule over the whole world and their treatment as similar Islamist groups is not beyond imagination.  See, e.g.,

I'd say the Islamists who scream wildly "kill the cartoonist!"

Well, if we look at the Islamists who scream Death to this and that (I've seen the scariest-looking people in one of the protests against a poor cartoonist!)

Have we forgotten Khomeini's fatva against Rushdie for writing a book of fiction...Khomeini had certainly not read that book himself, but still he didn’t hesitate to order his followers to kill the man. Fortunately, as Rushdie pointed out himself: "After all, we can certainly say that only one of us is dead now!" 

Plus, one single Islamist attack left 3000 dead in the US. So instead of counting the number of attacks maybe they should have counted the number of victims.

If we look around us, we'll notice that the Islamists have been more dangerous for other muslims...mostly with koran's "holy" laws.

Yet, i think you're asking the wrong question. There are many great and peace-loving muslims in the world (women are the first victims of islamic laws.) But still it is wrong to paint the world only in black and white: there are a few Islamophobic-terrorists groups and a few Islamic governments/groups with terroristic intensions and they're both equally dangerous.

But the most dangerous - sometimes- is Islam's own laws.

you are barking up the wrong tree again...

only since the arrival of "political islam" and the birth of it's bastard twin offsprings; the islamist regime of Iran and Al_Qaeda, have the muslims around the world been treated with such extreme suspicion, hatred, discrimination and lack of sympathy. Only with the collapse of above two evil entities can muslims start looking forward to a better future for themselves, their children and indeed  their relligion.

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

The root of terrorism. Where the problem came from.

"Their religion is irrelevant"    Melody Moezzi

Muhammad felt justified in the use of force in the expansion of Islam cannot be doubted. There is the statement in the Koran which is often quoted by apologists: "There is no compulsion in religion" (Sura 2.256). The context does not explain what is meant by this statement and it does not recur again in the Koran or the Hadith. It comes from one of the early Suras, given in Mecca or just after the flight to Yathrib. At that time the Muslims were persecuted by the Meccan elite and an appeal for tolerance may appear reasonable. The situation changed when Muhammad triumphed in Medina, and finally conquered Mecca itself. Then the urge is to fight the non-believer becomes paramount, e.g. Sura 9 Verse 29:

9.29: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

And again:

9.73: O Prophet! strive hard [make war] against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination.

In fact Abu Bakr, the first Caliph, is quite explicit on this. He is reported as saying in the Hadith: "I have been ordered to fight the people until they profess that there is no god but God and that Mohammad is the messenger of God" (Peters, p. 127). Once again the apologetic defence that "people" here means the pagan Arabs attacking the Muslims is without foundation. By Abu Bakr's time Islam was no longer on the defensive and the pagan Arabs had all converted either voluntarily or by fear.

The only exception to this was for Jews and Christians (called the dhimmis) who have to pay a special tax (the Jizya) "with willing submission and feel themselves subdued". This qualification is important for even in Arabia during Muhammad's rule the fate of the defeated dhimmis was inevitably death, enslavement or exile. A notorious incident was how Muhammad dealt with the Jewish tribe of Banu Qurayza where all the 700 men of the defeated tribe were slaughtered in one day in 627 CE and the women and children enslaved with the wife of the Chief recruited into Muhammad's harem. A similar slaughter took place two years later after the Jews lost the Battle of Khaybar.

VPK

all your hatred and vitriol against islam and moslim are good and Jim dandy but at least have the decency of using a different word in place of NOKAR and the fact that he was an idiot. Khedmatkar or Khedmatgozar. Seem like much better choices/ Or even a phrase such as: Marde mohtarami ke baraye ma karmikard.

That kinda makes your claims of Anti racism and anti-this and anti-that kinda Irrelevant.

It is not His fault That you hated this thing with all your might.

Responses

The worst terrorism of Islam comes in "domestic" form. Specially onto women but also to men. Not to mention racism that we discussed to detail.

Honestly I don't care if people are hi-jacking Islam or not. I don't care. I just don't want Islam. I don't want it forced on me. I don't want to hear about it all day. I don't want Muharram. I don't want Ramadan. I don't want Ashura. I remember our nokar would give me a hard time for eating on Ramadan. Or when NowRuz happened in Muharram. The idiot  acted like his religion was supreme. I told him: you go practice your way and I do mine. He responded: No Islam supreme and is for all people and all time. Well we see how great that tuuned out. We should have beaten him to a pulp; then handed him to Savak. But my family was too kind. We have learned.

Domestic Terrorism inherent in sharia jurisprudence

Bravo Hamseda 

you've got the international terrorism down, but need to look a bit closer into domestic terrorism.  dig a bit deeper and look at examples of domestic terrorism in "islamic" countries.  search for honor killings, women immolating themselves, raping of virgins in the prisons before their exection,... all in the name of islam... all within the defintion of inducing terror within a population.... and then tell me what you've learned.  the western countries' fear of importing these savage behaviors is well-founded.  as a good moslem, are you willing to stand up against those who're hijacking your religion?  try to publish an article in iran, pakistan, saudi arabia, yemen, .... telling them what you think of them.  then run as fast you can...

I will add the vile practice of Nahay az monker amer be maroof (classic example of domestic terrorism) , Ghesas, Legalized  pedophilia on women (age of marriage is 9) , practice of sigheh and general mysogynistic treatment of more than half of population,etc...

one example of terrorism

ms. moezzi, thanks for the great article telling your mostly "moslem" audience that they are, in fact, not terrorists.  i have an example of terrorism for you.  just one.  go to iran and see how millions of iranians are terrorized into submission on a daily basis.  see how muslim women, like yourself, don't have the luxury of wearing what they like, have a significantly unequal treatment to their male counterparts, etc.  you see, the terrorists (those who want to induce terror), at one time, systematically threw acid in the face of women who wanted to dress in an "unislamic" way, the way you do here in the west.

you've got the international terrorism down, but need to look a bit closer into domestic terrorism.  dig a bit deeper and look at examples of domestic terrorism in "islamic" countries.  search for honor killings, women immolating themselves, raping of virgins in the prisons before their exection,... all in the name of islam... all within the defintion of inducing terror within a population.... and then tell me what you've learned.  the western countries' fear of importing these savage behaviors is well-founded.  as a good moslem, are you willing to stand up against those who're hijacking your religion?  try to publish an article in iran, pakistan, saudi arabia, yemen, .... telling them what you think of them.  then run as fast you can...

what i agree with you is that people like you (i hope) and me and all my friends and families who were "born into muslim families" don't subscribe to these savage behavior.  what i also agree with you is the way media puts label on certain cultures and unfairly influences them.

Wrong Question

Religion is very similar to SEX

The Danger is when Religion is politicized and changes from something private and personal into a social statement where autoritative figures (Mullahs, Prists,Khakhams etc) try to dictate how people live their lives, conduct their relationships and behave towards those who are different

You see religion is  very much like Sex..To get my point just think a bout it for a moment.

SEX although it is one of the personal pleasures of life and essential for the survival of human raise, although it even plays a vital role in the intimacy and health of relationship between two adults, however when it is brought into public arena in forms of porn or when it is misused  and forced on others in form of sexual abuse or rape it is disgusting and intolerable.

The same goes for religion.

As long as it is personal and behind closed doors and people who enter into it  are doing it with open eyes knowing what they let themselves in for and what is expected from them, the religion plays vital and personal role in our spiritual well being

But when it is forced on children by parents or on individuals by social pressure or totalitarian authorities it is dangerous abusing and destructive