Azadeh jan, as a fellow cartoonist..

I can say that technically the Woman is flawless(aside from her unhappy demeanor--which is conveyed very effectively) In context, job of a cartoonist is to raise questions and create discussion--to allow people to voice their views. Sometimes the message is sharp and targeted, other times it is open to many interpretations but the more discussion, the more it has served its purpose. I believe it has served its purpose very well. Kudos. 

If I want to be FREE I’ve got to be ME!

Kaveh Adel's Facebook Art & Humanity Page

So tell me

Those who believe (in the Quran), those who follow the jewish
(scriptures), and the sabians, christians, magians, and polytheists,- GOD will judge among them on the day of judgment: for GOD is
witness of all things (22:17).

So can you please tell me what happens to the innocent men woman and children in jungles in Amazon?

How are they being judged since they haven't heard of none of the above scriptures. They are all condemned to hell to be burnt over and over, and have no clue why? Now you see where all the messianic religions really screwed up, they had no idea there are people living in far away lands.

GOD is
witness of all things (22:17)

Obviously god in the above books was not witness of all things, he was too preoccupied with sex and sexual thoughts.

Stop Execution and torture of Iranians in Islamic regime Prisions

I doubt

 I doubt that people who don't have the brains to know the difference of Islam will ever have the brains to break free from it.At times I can't blame the Islamist's for taking advantage of ignorance.

Just though to set the recored straight

No where in Quran it is mentioned  that EVE tempted Adam . NO WHERE ........... In all the verses concerning this subject it is mentioned that it was the Shaytan who tempted both Adam and Eve 

This idea of eve tempting Adam is in the bible ...... and it is the basis of all those witches buring during the dark ages .....

and Azadeh jan ....... most of what that we are witnessing in Iran of today and yesterday has to do with our culture rather than our religion............ unfortunately these two are so messed up and are so wrongfully mixed up together that now is very hard to distinguish between them.... and that is also true with most of other countries that practice this religion ....

the ranges however varies: 

In saudi Arabia women can not drive while we have a woman being elected as president in Indonesia ......... 

now being a woman in an islamic country of Iran is a challenge but an educated and open minded person should look further in to the various reasons that have contributed to it  .........

 well I thought I am not going to visit this topic but the discussions here were too hard for me to miss  : )

Thank you

Thank you Raoul, Anahid, bparhami, Rahmanian, Arthimis, Princess, Red Wine, vildemose, Faramarz, and others, for your comments.

Cheers,

Azadeh

Azadeh

I really like the cartoon and the social issue(s) associated with it.

Wonderful drawing.  The posted comments indicate that your work touched many readers.

Cheers

Dear bparhami, I agree with you

It is always easier to criticize than to produce.

Give the cartoonist a break

Ms. Azad just drew a cartoon about something that bothered her. No one will tell a cartoonist drawing an image of Qaddafi why all other dictators in the world were not depicted as well. A cartoon presents the cartoonist's point of view about a single topic. All others who want to present a different viewpoint on the same topic, or on some other topic, are free to draw their own cartoons criticizing, or poking fun at, whatever or whoever they please.

The Bottom Line

With special thanks 4 BotShekan, Afsaneh, & Rahmanian with their comments, the followings from the referred book might have some use for the readers here:

Hold to forgiveness; command what is "fair"; but turn away from the ignorant (7:197).

Those who believe (in the Quran), those who follow the jewish
(scriptures), and the sabians, christians, magians, and polytheists,- GOD will judge among them on the day of judgment: for GOD is
witness of all things (22:17).

We have explained (things) in various (ways) in this Quran, in order
that they may receive admonition, but it only increases their flight
(from the truth) (17:41)!!!!

PS: Is not it ironic/offensive that the cartoonist here equates the "woman" with the "dirt" as showing her buried naked & ready to be harvested?? Is that also the perception of woman in Quran?? What if the book is really the words of GOD as same as Bible & Torah before that?? Then how is the cartoonist going to feel when Quran calls Mary the Mother of "Jesus" as "the Woman of All Worlds (3:42)??"

Fair vs Unfair!

Fair and Unfair are also values or metaphors the meanings or concepts of which vary from people to people and individual to individual. What one may find unfair may be considered fair by billions of other people or vice versa. And if you are not religious, why do you care so much? And if you really care so much, then draw tons of cartoons ridiculing all other religions. Drawing a cartoon to get people's attention to a very critical issue is much less "harmful" than say, stoning a woman to death for adultery.

Fair first, woman second

Azadeh jan - It sounds like you might be posting from Iran, from what you say below. I agree that from there your cartoon might be viewed differently. That there'd be no reason to point out to Judaism or Christianity.

But this website is based in the West and many of us who've grown up in the West have had very different experiences. I consider it my duty as a global citizen to point to the injustice of constantly having Islam painted as misogynistic, while the original sinner was Eve, starting in the Jewish tradition, moving up through Christianity, and then reaching Islam. If we're looking at abstract ideology of such religions - it's not from a place of "insecurity" that I'm tired of having Islam cherry picked as the only misogynistic religion of these 3 very similar Abrahamic religions, it's from a place of being tired of the unfairness. (And I'm not even religious beyond spiritual myself!) These narratives, cherry picked as they are, fan the flames of prejudice - to me far uglier than sexism. In response to your suggestion, I personally think of myself as fair first, a woman second. But appreciate your suggestion. 

Thank you for the Sa'adi poem Bot shekan. 

Afsaneh

Great cartoon Azadeh jan

Thanks for sharing.

Saadi for beginners!

   The great Persian poet Saadi (pardon moi Afsaneh joon) has a well balanced take on women. Some examples:

زن بد در سرای مرد نکو
هم در این عالمست دوزخ او

زینهار از قرین بد زنهار
وقنــا ربّنــا عـذاب النــار

*******************

زن خوب فرمانبر پارسا

کند مرد درویش را پادشا

**************

برو پنج نوبت بزن بر درت

چو یاری موافق بود دربرت

همه روز اگر غم خوری غم مدار

چو شب غمگسارت بود در کنار

کرا خانه آباد و همخوابه دوست

خدا را به رحمت نظر سوی اوست

چو مستور باشد زن و خوبروی

به دیدار او در بهشت است شوی

کسی برگرفت از جهان کام دل

که یکدل بود با وی آرام دل

اگر پارسا باشد و خوش سخن

نگه در نکویی و زشتی مکن

زن خوش منش دلنشان تر که خوب

که آمیزگاری بپوشد عیوب

ببرد از پریچهره زشتخوی

زن دیو سیمای خوش‏طبع گوی

دلارام باشد زن نیکخواه

ولیکن زن بد،‌خدایا پناه!

بر آن بنده حق نیکویی خواسته است

که با او دل و دست زن راست است

در مورد بحث، خصوصیات منفی زن چنین ذکر شده است:

به زندان قاضی گرفتار به

که در خانه دیدن بر ابرو گره

در خرمی برسـرایی ببند

که بانگ زن از وی برآید بلند

چو زن راه بازار گیرد، بزن

وگرنه تو در خانه بنشین، چو زن

اگر زن ندارد سوی مرد گوش

سراویل کحلیش در مرد پوش

زنی را که جهل است و ناراستی

بلا بر سر خود نه زن خواستی

چو در کیلهیک جو امانت شکست

از انبان گندم فروشوی دست

زن شوخ چون دست در قلیه کرد

برو گو بنه پنجه بر روی مرد

چو در روی بیگانه خندید زن

دگر مرد گو لاف مردی مزن

چو بینی که زن پای برجای نیست

ثبات از خردمندی و رای نیست

گریـز از کفش در دهـان نـهنگ

کـه مردن به از زنـدگانی به ننگ

Source:

//saadiostadesokhan.persianblog.ir/post/21

Are women "insecure?"

To me,  its just not terribly civil to say that my statement that all 3 Abrahamic relgions are mysognistic - and yet Islam before Judaism or Christianity is constantly talked of as such - is because I lack "self-confidence."

It's natural for the person or group being cherry picked, to be the group that senses such things first. Surely that's psychology 101. Exactly why women are the sex who feel the brunt of sexism first. Does that mean they are "insecure" if they talk about it? Does that make sexism right?

I only respond to when something comes off as unfair. If we're looking at mysoginy in Islam, it started with Judaism and the story of Eve, continued in Christianity and then reached Islam. The themes are unbelievably close. When I lived in Rome, the nuns there (and Rome has many) looked exacty like they were wearing Chador and Maghana-eh. Because in all 3 relgions, women are objectified, and need to be covered. That theory wasn't born in Islam, that's my simple point. 

Of course, someoene pointed out that there are two arguments at work here - the abstract theory of the mysoginy in these religions vs. whether governments practice such religious laws. 

To me it's healthy to have discussions and share ideas, even contrary to our own, and I commend your cartoon for the discussion it has generated.

Afsaneh

Unrealistic Expectation

Dear Afsaneh,

I come from a country where about 98 percent of the population is culturally Muslim. While it is true that Islam has copied a lot from the misogynous Bible (Old and New Testament), it is quite unrealistic to expect me or any other artist / author to depict other religions as well and at the same time while speaking of Islam and Koran. I am not doing a comparative cartoon (See Rahmanian  below.) Islam has influenced the Iranian culture(and the destiny of the Iranian women)  much more than Judaism or Christianity. I leave the critique of the latter religions to women whose cultures have been, and still is, negatively affected by them.

I am only guessing that your being irked by this cartoon does not come from its unfairness, but from your pride, as an Iranian of Islamic background, before non-Iranians. I have never heard any Jewish or Christian woman respond to a critique of the Bible by saying, ‘’Why don’t you criticise Islam as well?’’ Or ''Why cherry picking?''  Having more self-confidence and not being sensitive to one’s image in public would be helpful.  Plus, you and I are women first, before being Muslims or Iranians, and need to channel our sensitivities accordingly. Or so I think.

Cheers,

Azadeh

so what does it say

about concubines? Do we get planted with GM crops?

Let's be fair

I agree that there are two arguments here:

1. An abstact analysis of mysoginy in Islam - and i wanted to point out to the fact that oultining the mysoginy in only 1 of the 3 Abrahamic religions is an incomplete account - given all 3 start their story with the female sinner; Eve.

2. A study of the history of separation of "church" and state - or mosque and state, that would include regions where religious doctrine is used to rule over people - now and then.

My understanding was that the Koran's mysoginy was being pointed out here - therefore category 1. above.  

As someone who doesn't practice any particular religion, believes they all have flaws, and respects them all - I find, cherry picking the mysoginy theme within Islam and not Christianity and Judaism, and how with all 3 these themes overlap, to be unfair. And I find "unfair" doesn't make for a healthy world. If we want to live in a "fair" world, surely we need to make sure we conduct ourselves fairly first. Just a thought. "Be the change you want to see in the world" as Gandhi used to say. 

Afsaneh

A Comparative Study!

Unless one decides to carry on a comparative study on the staus of women in different religions, one does not necessarily have to draw any comparison among them. One very important issue in the Islamic world is the vast influence of the Shari'a law on which the civil laws pertaining to women's status are based. In the democracies, however, the status of women is not determined by the religious principles of the people or the leaders. The mention of a historical incident that took place more than three centuries ago, long before America became a democracy, in order to compare it with what is at hand under the Shari'a law, is missing the point. If any, why not give historical examples of women's struggles for their emancipation?

Let's not cherry pick mysoginy

I'm more spiritual than religious, with injustice being  the one thing that irks me the most. My understanding is that all 3 Abrahamic relgions can be interpreted to be mysoginistic (note: "interpreted" - I'm not one to judge, and my goal isn't to dissect any of them.)There is an injustice to constantly picking out one of these 3 religions only.

The little I do know is that with all 3 religions, Eve was the "bad guy", remember? The temptress, commiting sin, and punished to child labor pains for that sin. Christians burned women as witches until not so long ago (in Europe and in the US - Salem witch hunt anyone?) and I know that Judaism has all kinds of "women are najjess - "dirty" theories, their hair is temptation etc. etc. What irks me, is for Islam alone to get this kind of treatment. It's not right. If we want to open up the discussion of any latent mysoginy in Islam, we have to look at its brother religions of Christianity and Judaism, too. Unfair stuff irks me.

Afsaneh

I have a very important theological question

If one is in the desert and have with oneself  a copy of the Mafatehojanan and the Koran but no tissues- Following answering the call of nature which of these holy objects can one use for the pupose of cleanliness with the expectation of incurring the least amount of sin on ones account in the afterlife? 

 Also say one  only had the Koran and used it for  cleansing- What  sort of worldly punshment will one expect to receive upon returning to civilisation, by the god fearing, sharia obeying Ommat of Islam? 

Answers much appreciated as I am planning a hiking trip and aim to brush up on my sprituality by reading the Koran at nights howver I want to have covered all eventualities.

Thanking you in advance. 

demo, then i sugget to you

demo, then i sugget to you to take your jihad against those who are in power and also desecrating your religion. from the oldest of islamic sources until now they have been writing that ayesheh was nine and turned 18 when mohammad died in his early 60s.  i guess you must have some obscure sources that trumps all of these writings.  good luck with your jihad against them.  until then you should just chillax when we're criticizing the obvious flaws of the islamic writings.

The Old Neighbor

Crystal clear that a 55 yrs old man must not have any sexual relationship with a 9 years old girl. No question about it. That story if is quoted as "Islamic" is valid as the story of 7o virgins awaiting for each martyr in the heaven & as the "Velayat'e Faghih" in IRI! 

Once one believes in Demons, then could figure out the validity of all these hadiths, stories, & etc. undersigned by a "dead" Molla, Scholar, Sheikh, & etc. & then later read by others as the "true" Islamic stories!

Read the messages & follow the best of them (39:55). If it worked for you then you for sure are going to go back & follow the next best & so on! That is how it works in practice my old/patient neighbor! 

Who in the world with a healthy brain is going to testify under the oath with the validities of all those writings, hadiths, resalats, stories of the past??? The sad part in IRAN, for instance, is that Moolas do not realize that "Resaleh" in incombant on the GOD's prophets only & they still dare to invent laws to date! 

What about the farm animals? LOL

 
Don't laugh.......but today we learned, according to islam our wives are our fields and we enter our field from every which way, we also learned, a 9 year old girl is ok to be raped by a 40 year old, what is the order for farm animals per koran?

Stop Execution and torture of Iranians in Islamic regime Prisions

demo, that 55-year old

demo, that 55-year old rapist is long dead and can no longer answer.  i asked you and see that you don't have the courage to answer a simple question whether it is moral for a 55-year old man having sexual intercourse with a 9-year old girl as it's proudly cited in many islamic writings.

The Old Neighbor

".........your wives are your garments and you are their garments." (Part of Verse 187, Section 2, Quran)

The subject is of course the relationship between men & women as husbands & wifes. There is absolutely no dominance of man over his wife per the indicated verse here. They are both equal on the sight of their creator.

Do not know what a "devout muslim" means.

Anybody could be a Muslim but only & only GOD knows who "Momen," i.e. a real believer, is. Only GOD knows what is in one's heart.

"Pre-destination" is a mollas' decoy employed in running away from one's pre-distined "free choice" given to every human.

What do we do with the story of King Solomom having 700 wives & 300 concubines as mentioned in the Old Testament?? Let a 55 years-old man answers himself about his own actions. Per the clear messages in Quran, every one is responsible only & only for his/her own actions regardless of his/her title/position in this world.

PS: While discussing over the cartoon, millions barrells of the irreplaceable Black Blood, i.e. Oil, is daily extracted underneath the "farms" both in our country & in the old neighborhood "Muslim" countries & only GOD knows how the money is being spent! Let's watch for the depleted farm under our feet instead, should not we???

Great work on so many

Great work on so many levels... Bravo...

In our own case of Iran especially, One can NOT be both an Iranian and a Muslim at the same time, period. These two contradict one another to the core... In order to be FREE, at some point Iranians MUST choose between the two, Either be an IRANIAN or a Muslim!!! Until then Iran and Iranians will suffer the same problems we have been for 1400 years and the last dark 32 years in particular...

Free Iran and Iranians. 

Farm

there are two words that come to mind n the context of farm:

Fertilization and cultivation which both are stated in this and or the similar verses concerning the issue .......

oh come on what do you expect ......... it is SEX ...... ok now happy ..there you have it ...... 

either in happens in the privacy of your bedroom or in the lab the words being used in scientific terms is exactly the same .... ...

IVF or in VITRO fertilisation is a process by which egg cells are fertilized by sperm outside of body  and then this is followed by embryo Cultivation .......

this is the same in VIVO....is a process by which egg cells are fertilized by sperm INSIDE of body  and then this is followed by embryo Cultivation .......but then we  call it SEX or LOVE MAKING or any other craps you want to call it

The concept is simply the same ..... you see this happens in the lab or bedroom or somewhere on the beach or just  " FARM. ".......duh

and it is always sperm that fertilize the egg ........ egg is there from the birth and is there to be fertilized by sperm ....... sperm produces daily and goes around to fertilize ......

 scientifically speaking these little guys should come to that big egg ..the other way is not possible 

now of course Azadeh Jan we can go and hit on any man ...viva the women power today but here I am talking plain science ......

so two tumbs up for GOD  ... WOW ......he is a biologist too ..I had idea

 now do not reply to me cause i am not going to read it .......

AZAD for God sakes have that poor woman put on something ....... that is not islamic  

Botshekan  don't mind them .. they are not scientists 

بت شکن

This is the best you can do? Wikipedia?? And are these the non- Muslim refrences to back your claim??

Have you actually read the links you have provided? "Women were the subjects of wronging and oppression. Their rights were violated and properties were extorted. They were deprived of their heritage, prevented –after being divorced or widow- from choosing husbands, and inherited just like properties or ri ding animals. ..." This is supposed to be how women in Arabia were treated before Islam came along, and I am sure Islam came and improved their lot. How lucky for Muslim women!

You have to realise it is extremely difficult for me not to be sarcastic, right now.

Let me just see if I get this right. Islam is the most complete religion and as such the most progressive religion which saved all those poor women who would otherwise have been burried alive. And all this already 1300 years ago.

The minor thing that people like you oversee is that this progessive Islam of yours is stuck in the 7th century Arabia!! 

I have a suggestion for you, why don't you come to Arabia, Iran, yemen, Afghnistan, Pakistan and put Islam in its socio-cultural context for me, please.

PS: And the only "bad press" Islam gets is from itself, form its practitioners.

Is any woman safe in Iran?

مارس 7, 2011 — جنبش خرداد

در ميان انبوه قتل های دختران ايران که توسط جمهوری اسلامی صورت گرفته است، قتل زهرا بنی يعقوب از يک نقطه نظر شاخص بود. زهرا را به جرم سياسی نکشتند، او در تظاهرات شرکت نکرده بود، او مانند زهرا کاظمی از ستم های رژيم اسلامی سند جمع نميکرد، او را به زنا، يا قتل يا قصاص يا يکی ديگری از انبوه اتهامات واهی و احکام موهن حکومت اسلامی عليه دختران ايران نکشتند. او فقط داشت در يک پارک با نامزدش صحبت ميکرد که بازداشت شد، و پدر او پاسدار ودر راه بود تا با سپردن ضمانت او را آزاد کند. به اين ترتيب قتل دکتر زهرا بنی يعقوب فقدان مطلق امنيت برای هر زن ايرانی در چارچوب نظام اسلامی را به نمايش گذاشت و نشان داد دستگاه حکومتی که اين نظام را بر پا داشته است در اساس در خدمت سلب امنيت از زن ايرانی است

روشنگری.زهرا بنی يعقوب در 22 مهر 1386 در بازداشتگاه ستاد امر به معروف و نهی از منکر همدان که زير نظر بسيج اداره ميشد، به قتل رسيد. او بعد از انقلاب چشم به جهان گشوده بود و هنگام مرگ فقط 27 سال داشت. اما در اين سن توانسته بود از دانشگاه علوم پزشکی تهران فارغ التحصيل شود. زهرا از کودکی دانش آموز نخبه و نفر بيست و ششم در کنکور سراسری بود.

پيگيری قتل زهرا که حتی مورد اعتراض برخی از همکاران پدر او در سپاه پاسداران قرار گرفته بود، به دستور دولت وقت متوقف شد. نوروز وبسايت حزب مشارکت نوشته بود نيروی انتظامی در پی صدور اين دستور، برای روزنامه ها دستور العملی صادر کرد که در آن ادعا شده بود قتل زهرا در نتيجه اختلافات خانوادگی صورت گرفته و رسانه ها نبايد به اين موضوع بپردازند.
قبلا ادعا کرده بودند زهرا خودکشی کرده در حاليکه او فقط يک ربع قبل از قتل با برادرش تلفنی صحبت کرده بود و گفته بود حالش خوب است و اصلا نگران نباشد منتظر پدر و ضمانت او برای آزادی است.

اسناد پرونده قتل زهرا را دزديدند، متهمان را آزاد کردند و خانواده زهرا نااميد از دادرسی طی نامه سرگشاده شکايت به مردم ايران بردند.

هدف اين بود که زمان بر خاطره اين جنايت هولناک خاک بپاشند و مردم فراموش کنند.

اما ما فراموش نخواهيم کرد.
اين ويديو را ببينيد:

embedded video at the site: //rahekargar.wordpress.com/2011/03/07/nawi-4212/

first of all, i hope by

first of all, i hope by "man and woman," you don't mean just any man and woman as in mother and son!  second of all, i feel pity for anyone who thinks that a man can dominate a woman as a farmer does over field.  third of all, you should know that there's no "choice" for a devout moslem; it's all pre-destined. 

now, the tough question.  what do you think about a 55-year old taking a 9-year old as a wife with regards to its permissability by islamic teaching?