Current Events

Thank you for clarifying that Babak jaan

You sound a very reasonable person. I dont think it is worth discussing with people that become insulting so I hope we both leave this blog and stop this strange dialog. Good night to you.

Truth Seeker Chraghi keh

Truth Seeker

Chraghi keh beh khaneh ravast beh masjed haram ast. My love is Iran and nothing more. I wish the islraelis and Plestinians the best.

Plus, I support Israel whole-heartedlly and I am in love with great Jewsh culture, and thankfull of their contributions to the humanity. 

Babak

I dont so much care about his "analysis" of my family history as he does not know me and he fabricates convenient BS made up to please his logic, but  is this accusation of Palestinian groupie directed at you correct? Are you one of those that posts and supports Palestine? Or is this guy just name calling? I flagged his comment but Admin supported it.

Simourgh,  I told you

Simourgh,

 I told you that I have difficult time with the version of events by Monarchists, Islamists and Marxists. They lie and fabricate then they try to make a case on the lies that they have fabricted.  The case of Mirza Kochek Khan is a good exmple, and Ghani's book is full of lies.  Anytime somebody in my country wants to express an opinion different from the one acceptable by the dictatorship then, he or she is a Soviet agent, Monafegh, CIA agent, American agent, Raussian agent, a Seperatist, British agent, Element of Estekbar-h Jahani, and so on and we the Iranians are used to it. Monarchists, Islamists and Marxists always find and found tens of exuses to suppress freedom, but they can not find one reason to respect the freedom, this is really amazing to me. Yes, Letting Khomeini to express his opinion freely would have exposed him very well, becuase the Islamists like Monarchists and Marxists are very good in spitting upward and khomeini was not an exception.  As I said before, it is extremely difficult for me to have any regards for any dictator no matter who he is.  I hate the stupidity of a dictator and nothing else.  Monarchy and Shahs and all Islamists and Marxists belong to the Toilet of the history and please let them rest there. The difference between Reza Shah and Mohamad Rezah Shah at one hand and Khomeini in the other hand is the difference between the Ess-Hal and You-Boo-Sat.

VPK

The Palestinian groupie Iranian is typical of many of the confused Iranian Left. They enjoyed a good standard of living, flourished under the Shah and got bored because their stomach was full. Rather than stay in Iran they come to the USA the country which they accuse of meddling in their affairs, supports Israel and dropped the bomb on Hiroshima. Rather than sticking it out to make their revolution work they cut and run. And run they do........not to Cuba.......not to Russia.......not to Poland......Romania......but decadent West. Why? Because they want to enjoy the same standard of living they had under the Shah and the same social freedoms which they lost under the IR.
Ask them.why and they give the same reason as Truthseeker - "its personal". Yeah, right. I'm not saying all revolutionaries were the same- some of them admit they made a mistake while others just leave the poor Shah alone to rest in.peace.

Babak

If you are going to discredit me then do so.properly. Tell me which part ofmy narrative of history is a lie. Di yiu deny that Kuchak Khan Jangali was attempting to start a breakaway republic in Gilan with the help of the Soviets? Would you have rather Khuzestan disappear? Fundamentally, would you have approved break away republics in Iran if the people approve it. I urge you to read Ghani's book which does not spare criticism of Reza Shah but certainly gives an insight to this great man's contribution to our country.
To give Khomeini, or any Islamist who does not accept secular democracy, a voice is a folly of the highest order. What is even more absurd is that you are suggesting that if Khomeini was allowed to express himself freely he would have been a comoletely different and tolerant person; not the blood thirsty dictator he became. That is madness. It just shows that even after a million deaths by Khomeini and his crackpot revolutionaries you still have not learnt your lesson. You won't even rank him as a dictator because Lefty Irani Text Book dictates that you have to 'understand' mad Islamists.

Re: Saddam

Saddam Hussein killed Ayatollah Hakeem and his sister, where is Saddam now?

Probably managed to get better quarters in hell due to this good act! He would have AC if he had done in Khomeini.

Regarding Singers

I agree with Simorgh I used to LOVE Farhad in the 1970s and even post revolution. Now honestly I am not able to bear listening to him. It just reminds me of that whole "hate the Shah" thing. 

Year by year I get sicker of that whole left wing gang. People that I used to hang out with I no longer want. I used to have a friend who is a leftist. The last time I saw him was two years ago. He was selling Palestinian olive oil and telling me how great IRI was. I politely bought a bottle of oild to be polite then went . Never saw him again and have no desire to. For crying outlout Iran is being suffocated and he is selling Palestinian oil! Not to mention telling me how great IRI is. Why does he live in USA?

Simourgh, The

Simourgh,

The Monarchist, Islamists, and Marxists, they all have their own versions of the history and based on the history that they fabricate they try to make their points and you are not different. A history written by any dictatorship is mostly biased, and Pahalvi version of the history is always questionable. The listing of the historical events by you and by the supporters of the past dictatorship are your opinion and nothing more and they are all lies. Still you are talking about excutions that should have happened and you are not ashamed of the fact that Shah had no right to send khomeini to exile but he did. You got it right, I am defending the Khomeni's rights as an Iranian who had the right to speak his mind, but Pahlavi dictatorship did not allow him to excercise his god given right to freedom of speech, and today we are paying the price. If Khomeini was allowed to speak his mind and we had free press, do you think we would have falling into a situation that we are in now? When you suppress a thought then you pave the way for the worst possible situations to come. Please pay attention I am defending the rights of Khomeini to free speech, while I realize that you will never ever understand this. Shah had no right to imprison or exile Khomeini, absolutely no right, again I know you will not get this. This is too much for you to understand. I am defending the rights of Khomeini to free speech, something that Pahlavi regime did not allow him to have and today we are paying the price.

Saddam Hussein killed Ayatollah Hakeem and his sister, where is Saddam now?

Nobody is predictable

For example DK; Simorgh and I all may be considered "pro Shah camp". But we have very different points of view. I have disagreed with Simorgh many times. DK is pro Pahlavi while Simorgh in on the record criticizing RP. 

It is only the closed minded who think everyone is the same. The basic idea applies to all sides. Not all leftists are MEK or Stalinist. Not all JM are Mossadegh worshipers. There is a huge multi dimensional spectrum each of us are somewhere in it.

Simourgh,The Monarchist,

Simourgh,

The Monarchist, Islamists, and Marxists, they all have their  own versions of the history and based on the history that they fabricate they try to make their points and you are not different.  A history written by any dictatorship is mostly biased, and Pahalvi version of the history is always questionable.  The listing of the historical events by you and by  the supporters of the past dictatorship are your opinion and nothing more and they are all lies.  Still you are talking about excutions that should have happened and you are not ashamed of the fact that Shah had no right to send khomeini to exile but he did.  You got it right, I am defending the Khomeni's rights as an Iranian who had the right to speak his mind, but Pahlavi dictatorship did not allow him to excercise his god given right to freedom of speech, and today we are paying the price.  If Khomeini was allowed to speak his mind and we had free press, do you think we would have falling into a situation that we are in now?  When you suppress a thought then you pave the way for the worst possible situations to come.  Please pay attention I am defending the rights of Khomeini to free speech, while I realize that you will never ever understand this.  Shah had no right to imprison or exile Khomeini, absolutely no right, again I know you will not get this.  This is too much for you to understand.  I am defending the rights of Khomeini to free speech, something that Pahlavi regime did not allow him to have and today we are paying the price.

"anti-shah types are so predictable"

No dear. Monarchists and IRI supporters are predictable. They behave just the same, when their views are challenged they attack and usually in a personal way and it is not about "truth". I do not "slag off" the Shah, I oppose concept of outdated Monarchy. Hope that makes it a little clearer, but I doubt you will just let it stay as that. A difference of opinion. Anyway, I'm out of here.

Truthseeker

I'm just trying to...er...seek the 'truth'. 

I did not say that you supported the IR but the anti-shah types are so predictable. Almost all of you have a 'personal reason' why you left Iran after 1979 and did not stick around to enjoy the fruit of your revolution.

As one of my dear friends always say, "Agar ghalati kardi begu man ghalat kardan; donbale bahane nagard". You 'revolutionaries' asked the Shah to leave and he did. It was your type that handed Iran on a platter to Khomeini and not only did you leave the country you consigned to hell but you still, to this day, continue to slag off the Shah. Why?  

You are the one sidetracking

Where I live and reasons have nothing to do with you, and what gives you the right to judge people as you do? Again you imply I support IRI or that I need to support Monarchy because what came after it is  horrendous. Sorry to say your comments and desperate logic give away your narrow minded views about Politics. there have been many blogs about Monarchy and I dont need to discuss pros and cons. Anyway, that is all I need to say to you. You are entitled to your opinion, but let others have their say without personal jibes. That does nothing for your argument at all.

Truthseeker

Don't change the subject. You and your parents were living in Iran. You left after the revolution just as ny parents did. You did not wait around to stay and see your glorious revolution blossom. Why not? What does that tell you? Why did your parents leave and not see your republic flourish? 

P.S.  I would make a great ruler of Iran without using the position to enrich myself.  

Babak

How many Iranians are living in exile now and how many people are living in exile now including you or your parents who left Iran in 1979? Be honest. 

The reaosn why people like Khomeini was able to come into power was because the Shah Mohammed Reza Phalvai sent him to exile twice instead of assassinating him when the time was ripe. With the benefit of hindsight we know for certain that if the Shah had ordered the assassination of people like Khomeini, Khalkhali, Shariati and Masoud Rajavi the country would have been stabilised for decades. 

I am not going to blindly defend all policies and actions by the Pahlavi dynasty but his actions- even those which were excessive, can be rationalised given Iran was constatntly threatened by the Soviets in the North - did you foget about Kuchik Khan Jangali and his breakway republic in Gilan with the help of the Soviet Russians who forced us into the disgraceful Torkamanchai treaty? Have you forgotten Sheikh Khazal of Arabestan (Khuzestan as it is now known thanks to Reza Shah) who was running the whole province as his own thiefdom? The British were especially were in favour of Arabestan being independent from the rest of Iran because they could syphon off oil without difficulty. Do not under-estimate the contribution Reza Shah made to the stability and prospeity of Iran.

Reza Shah did not kill Sheikh Khazal as Khomeini killed all opponents but sent him to exile. In the same way that Mohammed Reza Pahlavi could have executed Mosadegh with absolute impunity but refrained from doing so.  

Political freedoms are important but first you must have a country with secure borders and a viable state where democracy can be practised. By your rational you would have continued to allow Sheokh Khazal to run Arabestan because he was popular and loved by his people. Would you support the people of Gilan to be an independent state and breakaway from Iran if that is what the people of Gilan wanted? Would you support their decision? I wouldn't! Screw democracy! Democracy should never be at the expense of keeping Iran together and I couldn't careless whether you call me a fascist.

Like all regimes Reza Shah probably did kill people who did not deserve to be killed but it is easier to blame but you will not call for the overthrow of the federal government of the USA for the crimes of George Bush who is resposnible for the killing of millions of Iraqis in his stupid war.  

As for Reza Shah taking over illegally, well as a supporter of Mossadegh you should know better than accusing the Shah of taking power illegally. Even if Reza Shah did take power illegally he did Iran an absolute favour. I would rather have the illegal Shah than the legal Ahmad Shah Qajar and his traitor clan of reprobate family.

Javid Shah! - (not necessarily  Reza Pahlavi in Virginia)  

LOL!

Simorgh says: "While, I don't like to personalise the issue all these people like Truthseeker, Pendare Nik, the awful Q and so many other 'marg bar shah' brigade used to live in Iran prior to the revolution and the fact they are not living there anymore is telling. ... Being anti-Pahlavi and dismissing anything they did out of hand is just fashionable. Its almost a right-of-passage in the delusional far-left Iranian rise to manhood. "

While I don't like to personalise, but you just did. You proved my point that you just can't take any other view or ciritcism without resorting to .... God help us if we get people like you ruling Iran in the future! 

VPK jan

Precisely, my friend. Being anti-Pahlavi and dismissing anything they did out of hand is just fashionable. Its almost a right-of-passage in the delusional far-left Iranian rise to manhood. Is there anything they did which was right? While, I don't like to personalise the issue all these people like Truthseeker, Pendare Nik, the awful Q and so many other 'marg bar shah' brigade used to live in Iran prior to the revolution and the fact they are not living there anymore is telling. They asked the Shah to go and he did. They had the key to the future of Iran and the future was there for the taking. Instead, they misplaced their trust in Khomeini and we all know what happened next.

People like the singer Dariush Eghbali actually flourished in criticising the Shah. He used the rule of the Shah as his punching bag and inspiration for so much of his music. He knew he could say the things he did and get away from it. In an interview with VOA two years ago he implied that the regime of the Shah was just as bad as that of Khomeinei.  The only difference is, is that you are in exile now! 

Mohammed Reza could have stayed in Iran and unleash a bloodbath killing thousands of his people but he did not. He sat on the largest stockpile of military hardware in the Middle East and if he unleased it on his people like Gaddafi did he would have been vilified for a decade but the country would not have experienced the catastrophe Iranians did under Khomeini.

SimourghWhen Reza Shah

Simourgh

When Reza Shah took power illigally, Iran was as it is today, and he could not get an inch back.  Here our discussion is about Estebdad and what irrepairable damages it does to a nation and to a country.  Yes, Reza  Khan as a commandar did a lot of services,( by the way he was supposed to do them), but Reza Shah as a dictator is not and was not acceptable.  If you are correct which your not, still it does not justify killing of all jounalists by him who spoke out.  People like leaders of Bakhtiari tribe (37 of them and very patriatic) they trusted him and they helped him the best way they could but Reza Shah killed 35 of them, and two of them managed to hide until 1320.  He killed or exiled any patriatic Iranian who disagreed with him.  He killed Davar (the Minister of Justice) over a small disagreement.  He killed Mirzadeh Eshgi (the only peot and jounalist who left alive and dared to express concern about abandonning the Iranian Constitution).  All the newspapers which were active during Iranian Constitutional Revolution and afterword were banned and all editors were murdered or exiled or imprisoned.  Iranian constituion was totally abandonned by him for what?  You can serve your country but there is never a justification for suppression of thought.  I am quetioning the dictatorship and the dictator and his stupidity.  He tolerated nobody so that at the eve of the WWII he was only surrounded by bunch of Khayeh-malls who could not understand the graviety of the world situation and could not give the dictator a right advise and as a result Iran was occupied.  About so called progresses in his time.  Well, look at the Arab countries around us , they have more of what Iranian dictator built.  I want remind you that the Kabul University was built two years before the Tehran University (this itself was the renaming of the Darol-Fonoon), but Darol-Fonoon was an amzing phenamonna in Asian continent.  Dictators build roads, bridges, and buildings, and they make sure they are named after them, but these does not bring a future for a nation.  You can not build a future with institutins build by a dictator.  Even the kindergardens, elementary schools, high schools, universities built by a dictator become worhtless, because never ever freedom of thought and curisity were allowed in this institutions.  Whay do you think an Ahreeman like Khomeini so easily came to power?  The Pahlavi Estebdad never allowed us to read, to express opinions and learn about the truth.  There was nothing to read or study, to see or to listen to other  than what the Dicatorship thought is proper for us. If somebody provides a service to you, does he have the right to hurt you, rape your loved ones, kill you, torture you?  Why a make an exception about a dictator?  Simourgh, you and me owe nothing to any a..hole, you hear me?  They owe you and me everything they have.  My problem with  the dictators is their stupidity, soon or later they will be drowned, but we do not want to be drowen with them.  The difference between you and me is that I liked Shah but you don't.  If you and people like you liked him you could have gone to him and told him:

Your majesty we love you, and the country, but the way you are doing things will put you and your family and the country in deep crap.  But nobody aound Shah did. 

But , Reza Shah or Shah had no friends around them,                    only Khayeh-Malls and Be-sharfs and Be-Vojdans, and a dictaor can not tolerate anybody else, and he does not deserve better.

Simoourgh Jan,

A dictator's stupidity is what I am questioning, if he wants to be drowned beh-tokhmam, but he can not take me with him.               The Stupid Khamanei does not want to learn and his fate is clear, He will soon or later will meet Khomaini and Mohamad Reza Shah, Reza Shah and they can discuss in the hell how stupid they have been. 

Simorgh

I agree with you all the way both about Monarchy and Babak. How dare he compare Reza Shah with Hitler. One was the man who built Iran. The other a maniac responsible for murder of 6 million Jews and millions of other people.

The anti Pahlavi are on losing their minds. Or what I do not know. But I know that anyone who does not see the difference it not worth talking to.

I see

So when you started on me with "what have you anti-monarchists ever offered anything of value to Iran which wasn't cheap and disgusting? Your ill-advised hasty revolution which destroyed the lives and futures of a generation of Iranians? .... and the rest"  wasn't making this a monarchy v republic issue?

Please have the last word, as you insist .  :)

Truthseeker

I did not make this a monarchy v republic issue - you did.

I took excepetion when Babak K put him in the same category as Hitler or Stalin (both of whom were head of 'republics).

Regardless of whether Reza Shah was a monarch or a the president of a republic he was one of the greatest figureheads Iran has ever know.

No Reza Shah=No Iran. 

Simorgh

I don't have issues with Monarchists putting their views across, as long as they do not behave in a dictatorial fashion to others here, which is unfortunately what they do. Please allow others to be critical and do their own analysis instead of trying to impose your views on them through berating them. To say anything other than Monarchy is cheap and disgusting is ridiculous. I did not go for IRI, my family left before the revolution. So my world view is not IRI versus Monarchy, there are other alternatives. But this is not a Monarchy blog, so that is all I have to say about your "tashar" to the other reader for just putting his view down.

Truthseeker

I know I'm sounding like Darius Kadivar saying this, but what have you anti-monarchists ever offered anything of value to Iran which wasn't cheap and disgusting? Your ill-advised hasty revolution which destroyed the lives and futures of a generation of Iranians? People like Khomeini and idiots like Bazargan, Banisadr who cowered into anonymity or ran from fugitives after the monstrosity they created? At best you can claim to Dariush Forouhar - a well intentioned but misguided intellectual- who was killed by the very hands of the revolution and regime he helped pave the way for. Other than being 'cheap and disgusting ' what has been the legacy of Iran for the last thirty years? 

Pick all the faults you want with Mohammed Reza Paghlavi Reza Shah but even his failures towers above the successes of the 'republican' Islamic Republic. 

Despite what you think  I actuallt have a great deal of respect for some republics such as Turkey and I think Reza Shah would have made a great president or a Shah. But unfortunately, the republic supporting Iranians have a long way to go before they can match the skills and talent of the calibre of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk. 

You owe the existance of Iran to Reza Shah.

"cheap and disgusting" and personal allegations

Welcome to the emotional reasoning of Monarchists.

Why are all the pictures of

Why are all the pictures of people celebrating Khomeini's demise contain Hijabi women?

The interim government should ensure that when new elections for a leader is held within a few months all Islamist groups be forced to lay down their arms and all candidates to swear allegiance to a secular democracy.

It would be even better if all women were forced to remove the hijab as a sign to the world that Islam will never encroach in politics again.  

Babak

Not only was your comment about Reza Shah cheap and disgusting but you that Iranian flag which you have as avatar would not even exist without Reza Shah. The fact that you have a country called Iran instead of the republic of Fars, Baluchestan and Arabestan (Khuzestan) owes a great deal to Reza Shah who saw to the unification of Iran when foreign powers were quite happy for it do be divided. This is an un-disputed fact and I suggestyou read 'The rise of Reza Shah' by Cyrus Ghani who explains that whle reza Shah ruled with an iron fist it was HIS unshakable resolve that kept the country together

Do you think we would have an Iran if we have some pinky, limp-wristed, bleeding heart liberal in power in the 1920's and 30's? 

In your ideal version of 'democracy' you would have blown Iran away.

I also see that  Ayatoilet Khomeini, Ahmadi Nut Job and Seyed Ali Geda Khamenei do not make the rank of dictaors which reveals where your true allegiance is.

JAVID SHAH - AN IRANIAN MONARCHY LIKE REZA SHAH! 

Bache Shirazi You said

"A primitive society will produce primitive people. This was always going
to happen if the rebels captured Gaddafi, the fact that people are
surprised is kind of strange to me. Hopefully Libya can now move on and
become a better country."

Who can honestly expect people that execute their prisoners, rabble, to lead to producing a better team?  How can you even hope that a democratic and popular movement will lead to a better country, when the society is in the state of development it is in?

Cut off the head and another

Cut off the head and another one will grow. That's the Middle East for you. Tyrants in waiting hiding behind the guise of democracy now. 

Babak

Slogans are cheap to make and mean nothing. Real work is a different matter. That you put Reza Shah and Hitler in the same level proves you are biased. Please do not bother talking to me. You got a lot to learn go  make more slogans.