A Lamb: Wedding sacrifice

Isfahan, March 2012

06-Apr-2012
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more from Ghormeh Sabzi
 
Truthseeker9

Glad I didn't watch the video

by Truthseeker9 on

"
throughout the video, there are people including kids who walk around the still-kicking carcass" - I thought they were slaughtering it Islamic way for the feast. How utterly disguting.


MRX1

shoud be banned

by MRX1 on

This kind of ritual killing of animals should be banned.( be it this or bowl fighting in spain and so on.) Of course it may not stop some half ass backward jack ass from doing it behind the scenes but at least it send s a strong signal that society as a whole will and should not tolerate this kind of savegery.


Arj

Re meat or no meat!

by Arj on

VPK, I have no idea how else to reiterate the point that eating meat (albeit a valid argument on its own) is not the issue here, nor is the salughter of the animal for that matter! But the issue is mixing bloodshed with festivities such as wedding!

If you notice throughout the video, there are people including kids who walk around the still-kicking carcass, dancing around while stepping into the still-warm blood as if it's something casual! Not to mention that towards the end of the clip, one of the people present (the guy in suit) exchanging pleasantries and ushering other guests in, while stepping in fresh blood!

This doesn't have as much to do with the wealth issue as it does with culture.  People in big cities no longer include the sacrificing rituals in their weddings not because they're rich or poor, but because they don't suit their urban life style! On the other hand, there are many rural tribal societies that are wealthy, but still consider bloodshed and sacrificial rituals as an integral part of their wedding ceremonies!

With regards to barbarity and the barbaric nature of such rituals, just take a look at their cultural origins. They are an amalgomation of the pastoral/nomadic Mongol rituals and tribal Bedouin traditions (hence, the terms barbaric and badavi) which consider bloodshed a good omen in their "festive"  ceremonies!  


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

A few other

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

points on killing of the animals. The reason richer cities don't kill animals themselves is they got others to do it for them. Sure a rich family rather pay someone to do their dirty work. 

The poor do it because they have to not because they are barbaric. It is bad enough to be poor; they also get called barbaric. 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

What about

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

the fact that people enjoy meat? Is that also a sign of their barbarism? Should we ban anyone enjoying it. We may have meat but not enjoy it. In fact any festivity like Thanksgiving; Christmas should not serve meat.

After all they are festivals and killing an animal to eat as a part of a festival is barbaric. Alright Arj: how about a proposition in California? No meat at a festival. No meat if you have fun while serving it.


Arj

blood and carcass!

by Arj on

As many have already noted here, the issue is not why these people sacrifice the lamb, but rather why the slaughter of an animal and the bloodshed has to be integrated into a festive ceremony such as wedding?! There's no way in which one can consider this as a traditional Iranian parctice, for if it where, our most prominant national festivities such as Noruz, Mehrgan, Charshanbesuri and Sizdehbdar should've involved a trmendous amount of bloodshed!

On the other hand, it cann't necessarily be attributed to the reiligiosity of our society, for in larger urban centers and metropolitans, where still a significant part of the population identify with religious traditions, such practices are pushed to the margins of the society, e.g. slums and ghettos --as seen in the above clip! Nonetheless, in rural areas, where due to a pastoral life style and culture, live stock and animals are considered a ubiquitous staple, such practices are more common.   


default

Pussy

by Shepesh on

http://www.memidex.com/puss+general-anatomy

Why do some men use this term about women and why does IC keep these vulgar reference to women if they are flagged? 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Good question Mehrban

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

I really don't know; maybe it is a "hybrid" :-) Sorry was just watching "Smug Alert" on South Park!


Mehrban

Eiyde and Jashn

by Mehrban on

Good work VPK but do we make the distinction?    Is a wedding (where the sacrifice has taken place) a jashn or an eiyd ?   ;).  

 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Eyide Sage Daryayee

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

http://sfist.com/2012/04/06/two_sea_lions_sentence...

Maybe Iranians should be doing up seals instead

Side bar: are seals viewed as "sag" in Eslamm or are they halal? Are they najis; motenajis or OK? Would one of the IRI groupies please ask his or her handler to pass this to a maja? I want a real one not a fake Ayatollah like Ali Geda.


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Eiyde vs Jashn

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Jashn is a Persian festival dating to pre-Islam. For example NowRuz; Mehregan; etc.

Eiyde is a religious "holiday" based on Islam.

Iranian people due centuries of Islamic repression forgot the difference, But they are different and we might as well remember that. Sacrifice of animals is not practiced in a Jashn but is practiced at Islamic rituals.

 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Right usermma

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

You see here on IC anything that is "Western" is good. Anything that is done in the East is bad: got it? So if Danes kill whales to prove they got a *** that is civilized. If Iranians kill a sheep for dinner that is barbaric.

This is not about torturing animals; but eating them. People eat animals and for most part kill *before* eating. Most societies lived with their animals and killing the animals for food was and is very normal. 

Now add to it worship of their god or gods. Given the most prized possession of a people was their animals what do you ofter your god? Food in form of meat; fruit; etc or other stuff. The good part of food is that you offer it to your god and get to eat it! 

The problem is when an endangered species like whales is unnecessarily killed to "prove manhood". Not when sheep are raised specifically for food and then killed and eaten. If you don't see the difference then that is too bad.

PS: 

Normal men don't need to prove their manhood. It is rather obvious to anyone with a brain.


usermma

Why you guys are so obsessed with western culture?

by usermma on

Look at this site http://www.politicalarticles.net/blog/2011/11/14/denmarks-gruesome-festival-mass-killing-of-whales-and-dolphins-to-prove-adulthood-2-2/ Killing animals to prove adulthood. I 'm pretty sure your mom and dad did this at the time of their wedding.


Manam_Babak

This is Islamic culture

by Manam_Babak on

Man kind in general enjoys tourturing animals, But Islamist, folowed by chinies, are the worst kind. Come to think of it, Americans are not too far either, in Redlubster Restaurant, they dip fresh (live) lubster in boiling water. It just feels good to say Islamist are the worst.


Mehrban

We even have an Eiyed named after Sacrifice

by Mehrban on

An eiyd (not a day of mourning) but an eiyd as in eiyde norooz, we have eide ghoorban.  We have had it for a long time.  We kill animals and celebrate on that day (mostly we do it in our own homes often in front of children).  

We are oblivious to the obvious unbearable violence of the event we just do it, it is required or looked favorably upon by our religion.  

 


alx1711

Not a Persian tradition or

by alx1711 on

Not a Persian tradition or culture, sacrifice was introduced to Iran when tazies arabs attacked Iran. Video must be removed from youtube...


Roozbeh_Gilani

Zendanian is right & I agree with Mehrban, absolutely......

by Roozbeh_Gilani on

This is nothing compared to barbaric practice of public hanging or stoning by the fascist islamist regime. The Blood Lust that our friend Zendanian is correctly pointing to is just the natural reaction to a 33 year  brutal dictatorship. When the islamist regime is overthrown, I feel, but hope not,  that it will be a very bloody business. There will be lots of scores to settle by ordinary folks against their islamist tormentors of the past 33 years.   

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."


Arj

Re violence lust

by Arj on

Dear Mehrban, I believe we might be pointing at the same spot from different angles! Some of the atrocious practices that plague our society are caused by IRI's reintroduction of mediaval savagery such as stoning and public hanging..., and some are not a matter of Pahlavi vs IRI, but are rather cultural residues of bygone eras! Public sacrifice/slaughter of animals is but one example of such which has been encouraged, but not created by IRI. Nonetheless, even if Pahlavis wanted to, they would not be able to put a stop to that practice, simply because our society at the time was not ready for it -- 70% of population lived in rural areas as opposed to just 30% now!

Hence, since an overwhelming majority live in urban areas now, not to mention literated/educated, they're more susceptible to civilty and civil rules. Moreover, the small minority who gather for public hangings and floggings, would not represent a serious opposition to the repeal of Sharia law. While public slaughter of animals would have to be phased out in gradual steps rather than banned all at once! For it still is a part of the daily life for a significant portion of the population in rural areas, while it can be banned altogether in urban centers! 


Zendanian

And what's the difference between this blood lust, and IC's own

by Zendanian on

daily list of blood lust; where (almost) everyone is calling for everyone else's physical elimination, bombing, execution, ...:

-Monarchists calling for their opponents and mullahs execution,

-MEK "supports" calling for assasination of all IR heads,

-Disturbed individuals calling for "surgical" bombings of Iran,

-Hezbollah thugs calling for killing anything and everything that moves and doesn't support them,

.......

And of course all such blood lust is also only a small "sacrifice," to acheive their goal: Restroration of monarchy, bringing MEK to power, "freeing" Iran, maintining IR,...

========================================== 

An injury to one is an injury to all.


anglophile

Haji Washington introduced the practice in Waldorf Astoria

by anglophile on

  Later followed gleefully by the likes of Ibrahim Yazdi and Mostafa  Chamran.    http://fa.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D8%AD%D8%B3%DB%8C%D9%86%D9%82%D9%84%DB%8C_%D8%B5%D8%AF%D8%B1%D8%A7%D9%84%D8%B3%D9%84%D8%B7%D9%86%D9%87     and was dramatised by Ezatollah Entezami       http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDvV1SFAHKU

Oon Yaroo

This is barbaric period!

by Oon Yaroo on

BTW, what's all this flagging here for?


Mehrban

Dear Arj

by Mehrban on

Do you think public hangings are just IR?  Why do people show up in hoards to see them.  

IR could with one strike eliminate animal sacrifice in a second but why would they, it is their realm of power, animal sacrifice is one of the oldest archaic religious rituals.  It is the manifestation of the power of religion in our society.

Do you think if Pahlavis (for example) would ban sacrificing animals what would be the reaction of the clergy.  


Simorgh5555

Sick, sick, sick people

by Simorgh5555 on

Regardless of whether its slitting the throat of the defenceless sheep or the ritual slaughter of chicken during Yom Kippur, these backward disgusting displays of public cruelty towardsa animals must be abated. These are all Abrhamic traditions which have been adopted by Islam from Judaism unfortunately. Even the word 'Korban (ghorban)' is from Sephardic Hebrew. 

There is no justification for this, and I couldn't give a flying frock whether this part of their culture or religion. No one would tolerate female circumcision in Africa or Afghani women wearing a burqa because its part of their 'tradition' and this should apply to all types of animal cruelty. They should ban bull fighting, fox hunting or seal culling. 

There is a clear distinction between killing an animal for food, sustenance or pest control than for sport and having a bunch of backward dahati women screaming (kel zadan) jublantly as a poor animal is slaughtered and mutilated infront of children. No wonder children in Iran attend public hangings. This is how people become desensitized to violence.  Sick people. Disgraceful. 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Raoul

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

You are twisting it and you know that. Do you compare eating killing and eating a sheep to cannibalism. Only on IC.

Regarding mating in front of others yes I have seen it done in America.

Arj: go for it and good luck to you but if you call the voters "barbaric" not many votes.. I would use my time to ban the death penalty and improve the economy. 


Arj

Outdated

by Arj on

VPK, I believe that such rituals are outadated, barbaric and have nothing to do with the modern day Iranian identity -- note that I'm referring to slaying of animals in public venues! I also blieve that I have the right to freely express my opinion, and once there are parties allowed in Iran, I will lend my support to the party that proposes to ban the practice of such rituals in public!

..............................

Dear Mehrban, the difference is that stoning, public flogging, maiming or hanging are forced on our society by IRI. Whereas, public animal slaughter, while supported and encouraged by IRI, is not being done forcefully, moreover, it preceded IRI's advent! In other words, in a post IRI era, all the new system will have to do with regards to stoning..., is to change the constitution to purge Sharia law and that's about it! But with these rituals, it will have its hands full, for it takes a considerable amount of cultural work! 


Raoul1955

VPK

by Raoul1955 on

"Many creatures kill and eat as do many humans."

Many creatures also mate in front of each other without checking into a motel, or even being married [LOL] should humans start mating in public places as well? 
In the distant past humans [some of them] also 'butchered' other
humans in a similar ritual that Iranians do to the sheep.  They referred to it as 'human sacrifice.'   They also consumed human flesh.    I suppose that is how some muslims justify slitting the throats of other muslims and kafirs!  Should the civilized humans follow this crazy ritual that is part of the islamic culture?


vildemose

 Dear Mehraban: you are

by vildemose on

 Dear Mehraban: you are spot on as usual.. I will just add the practice of stoning and cutting limbs are also abominations that we need to stop.

A state of war only serves as an excuse for domestic tyranny.--Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn.


مآمور

playing does not know age

by مآمور on

people keep playing till they die. the toys will change but the game stay the same. 

the latest internet game for people 65+ is bluff game made by kosher materials. it is free download on IC!!

 

I wear an Omega watch


Mehrban

This is nothing

by Mehrban on

our people are made to watch people hang from cranes in public.  Then go home and eat their ghormeh sabzi.

Violence is woven into the fabric of our culture, what is killing a lamb, kids play.

 

I did not watch the video. 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Arj

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

I meant what I said. Yes I do say that birth and death are two sides of the same coin. Many creatures kill and eat as do many humans. You guys are on a "bash" Iranian people trip. Plain and simple.

Anyway I don't practice this; nor do I eat much meat. Posting this here on IC does no "good". If you want to go tell Iranians in Iran then go for it. But if you come from the "you are barbaric" point of view it won't get your very far.

Anyway this is not about killing of sheep. It is about a group of Iranian diaspora getting on their high horse and telling others how "barbaric they are". I don't think it is  very productive to put yourself above other people.