Raising Their Voices

Campaign against military attack on Iran

Raising Their Voices
by Ghormeh Sabzi
12-Apr-2012
 

The International Campaign for Human Rights in Iran released a short video and accompanying letter-writing campaign featuring the viewpoints of prominent Iranians on the domestic consequences of a potential attack on Iran. These views are drawn from a 38-page report, Raising Their Voices: Iranian Civil Society Reflections on the Military Option, based on interviews with 35 leading and influential Iranian civil society activists, lawyers, intellectuals, and artistic and cultural figures, all of whom live in Iran.


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amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Siavash300 wrote this after your comment

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

http://iranian.com/main/blog/amirparvizforsecularm...

You speak and think like a soldier, too often thinking in ways that are not Iranian or in the interests of Iran.  Irans issues are far more complex than a military solution can resolve, the IRI is not the heart of the real problem, they are a symptom of something far more sinister.  Don't get me wrong anti-secular mullahs are our problem as Iranians, but we are in a problem of bigger dimensions.  The late shah, basically acted in a way to completely open the hands/secrets of the power elite totally and the world is going through a major struggle as a result of all sides discovering each others to secret aims against each other.

Iran is a less significant part of the real struggle.  If the tide of power turns as it has been Iran will have big opportunities for progress, for now it has not turned enough and so the anti iran powers are relying on extremism in Iran and other places.  The IRI may be gone soon, but that does not mean Iranians will be free from extremists in power and that is our real problem, the real reason a military path can't ever solve our political problem.

Siavash300 so much you just are not aware of, a military strike has 100 bad versions for 1 good outcome.  If done as the USA has been organizing with contact and massive support of sepratists to most peoples knowledge this will cause Iran to disintigrate in a way calculated by the military sales people to guarantee many many wars & many extremist groups being supported.  They know exactly what to do to guarantee future wars, give persepolis and shiraz to arab tribes, give Tabriz to Armenia etc with zero armenan population.  They don't care, they want to guarantee the sides have a motivation to fight, when given the perssion and supplies to do so.

Siavash300 maybe you think that the usa/israel care for irans democracy, human rights and development, but in reality for the last 33 years Iran has been used, as for as one can see, and will be used as cannon fodder to get the west out of its economic problems like a copier machine, press start when weapons sales are needed. 

Lets focus on the things we can really do something about right now.  For you, enjoy. http://iranian.com/main/blog/amirparvizforsecularm...

 

 


Siavash300

Targeting nuclear facilities

by Siavash300 on

"we have chicken hawks of various sorts here babbling about "the benefits of war" or justifying the use of nuclear weapons on civilian populations" Arj

Not long ago, I met a jewish guy whose cousin was working with Obama administration. Very nice gentleman whose family adopted 2 jewish Iranian brothers over 40 years ago. He said there would be 2 possiblites in case of air strike.

A. Air strike only target nuclear facilites= In this scenario the people will support the outside intervention for removing mullahs from power. Majlis, Basij, revolutionary guard head quarters, friday pray and mullahs houses are the main targets.

B= Air strike mistakenly hit the civilians= In this scenario, people will mobilize behind mullahs against outside forces and mullahs get more stablized and stay on power longer.

 


Arj

Re time for war!

by Arj on

Indeed, there never is a good time for war, even if determined by the "almighty" U.S. -- see Iraq and Afghanistan for examples where the invaders/occupiers had to settle with their enemies (Sunni Ba'athists through "Sunni awakening" and currently negotiating with Taliban to set up a consulate in Qatar). 

Moreover, the world we live in, is no longer one in which wars could settle national/intrnational disputes! For not only regional wars would have dire consequences and impacts on blobal levels, but also technological advancements allow rag-tag insurgency/resistance movements to put up asymmetrical fights against behemoth conventioanl war machines. Hence, any schmuck with a cellphone, a digital watch and a block of C-4 could take out a multi-million dollar tank from the roadside!

However, while those who are looked up to the most, and have the utmost respect and trust of our people in Iran as icons of their struggle for freedom and democracy, are in no implicit way expressing their concerns as well as stressing the futitlity and counter-productivitry of war, we have chicken hawks of various sorts here babbling about "the benefits of war" or justifying the use of nuclear weapons on civilian populations!


Anonymous Observer

It always amuses me how these America haters

by Anonymous Observer on

support every single dictator, tyrant, mass murderer, genocidal maniac and even cannibal just so that they can vilify the U.S.  Hitler, Imperial Japan, Stalin, Pol Pot, Kim Jong Il, Bashir of Sudan and his atrocities in Darfur, Assad in Syria, Russia's atrocities in Chechnya, China, the IR....anything and everything, every single homicidal sociopath should be praised just so that they can throw a cheap shot at the U.S.

So much for a moral compass. 


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

A moderate response

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

 

Here as usual we got two sides digging in their heels. One sides opposes war under any conditions and the other claims not to understand why anyone would oppose war. Both but specially the pro war side make no sense.

War is a bad thing and should only be used as a last resort. If people don't know that then I have nothing to say to them. On the other hand there is a time for war. Just a few of the problems are: 

  • When is the right time for it.
  • Who decides to have a war.
  • Who initiates and performs the war.

In reality the only nation able to run a war is America. People who think Israel are wrong. If America does it will be on its own terms and in its own time. They will not ask IC for permission.


Anonymous Observer

@Maybokhor

by Anonymous Observer on

VI. It takes a democratic country to drop two atomic bombs [to
punish a genocidal empire for committing  
this and to stop it
from killing, mutilating and raping millions more] and then [rightfully] complain
about "massacres" in the third world. 

The U.S. should have just left the Japanes carry on with more of this for instance:

Mass killings 

R. J. Rummel, a professor of political science at the University of Hawaii, states that between 1937 and 1945, the Japanese military murdered from nearly 3,000,000 to over 10,000,000 people, most likely 6,000,000 Chinese, Indonesians, Koreans, Filipinos, and Indochinese, among others, including Western prisoners of war. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Mass_killings

 

Or this lovely act: 

Cannibalism

Many written reports and testimonies collected by the Australian War Crimes Section of the Tokyo tribunal, and investigated by prosecutor William Webb (the future Judge-in-Chief), indicate that Japanese personnel in many parts of Asia and the Pacific committed acts of cannibalism against Allied prisoners of war. In many cases this was inspired by ever-increasing Allied attacks on Japanese supply lines, and the death and illness of Japanese personnel as a result of hunger. However, according to historian Yuki Tanaka: "cannibalism was often a systematic activity conducted by whole squads and under the command of officers".[68] This frequently involved murder for the purpose of securing bodies. For example, an Indian POW, Havildar Changdi Ram, testified that: "[on November 12, 1944] the Kempeitai beheaded [an Allied] pilot. I saw this from behind a tree and watched some of the Japanese cut flesh from his arms, legs, hips, buttocks and carry it off to their quarters... They cut it [into] small pieces and fried it."[69]

In some cases, flesh was cut from living people: another Indian POW, Lance Naik Hatam Ali (later a citizen of Pakistan), testified that in New Guinea:

the Japanese started selecting prisoners and every day one prisoner was taken out and killed and eaten by the soldiers. I personally saw this happen and about 100 prisoners were eaten at this place by the Japanese. The remainder of us were taken to another spot 50 miles [80 km] away where 10 prisoners died of sickness. At this place, the Japanese again started selecting prisoners to eat. Those selected were taken to a hut where their flesh was cut from their bodies while they were alive and they were thrown into a ditch where they later died.[70]

Perhaps the most senior officer convicted of cannibalism was Lt Gen. Yoshio Tachibana (立花芳夫,Tachibana Yoshio), who with 11 other Japanese personnel was tried in August 1946 in relation to the execution of U.S. Navy airmen, and the cannibalism of at least one of them, during August 1944, on Chichi Jima, in the Bonin Islands. The airmen were beheaded on Tachibana's orders. As military and international law did not specifically deal with cannibalism, they were tried for murder and "prevention of honorable burial". Tachibana was sentenced to death, and hanged.[71]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_war_crimes#Cannibalism

 

Bottom line: you commit genocide, kill (and apparently eat) ten million people, rape and torture millions of others and you will have nuclear bombs dropped on you so that you don't continue to kill and rape.  That's how the world works.  


long live Iran

To those minority agree with war:

by long live Iran on

Honstly reply:

1-If you were living inside IRAN could you agree with war again?

2-Has anything good came out of war in Irag and Afganistan that we expect the same in Iran?

3-Has ever been any historic evidance that Iranian agree with war with their own country?

I do not ask if you are member of MEK or how many other nationalities you do have. 

Long live IRAN forever 


iraj khan

Powerful

by iraj khan on

testimonies against a possible war on Iran by those who are standing in the front lines of struggle for human rights and democracy in Iran:

"The threat of military conflict between the United States and Iran has dramatic ramifications not only for the human rights of Iranians, but for the integrity of human rights principles themselves. This destructive threat can be avoided, and can recede from the international stage, if both parties focus on their international legal obligations, including, inter alia, compliance with the Non-Proliferation Treaty, the United Nations Charter and the principle of Jus ad bellum, and international human rights and humanitarian law."

Thanks for posting it here,

-PEACE-


Veiled Prophet of Khorasan

Really?

by Veiled Prophet of Khorasan on

I never can understand why some of us are against military intervention from abroad.

Well maybe because some got relatives that they love and don't want killed. Maybe because some don't trust outsiders to "help" us. Just like they did so many times before!

I know people on both sides of the argument but they ALL understand why not. Anyone who does not get why others oppose military action as no empathy or just simply does not care about Iran or its people.


Siavash300

Process of getting rid of current mullahs

by Siavash300 on

",,,,,,,,already been started, the IRI is in the process of getting recycled soon" Amirp....

If and only if that is the case there wouldn't be any need for military action. Dore Gold is a top political advisor in Israel administration. He is graduated from George Town university (Ph.D).  His famous book was published right after Green movement. In his book "the rise of nuclear Iran" says that Israel is hoping the green movement ends the ruling mullahs and fundamentalism. If that option doesn't work, military action seems in order. His book clearly shows where Israel is standing as far as military action concerned.  Now, Mullahs suppressed all their dissents. They have gun in their hands and they don't hesitate to kill any voice of freedom. So how is possible to get overthrown? and if that scenario as you are saying is correct, so why even bother to talk about military action.? As we listen to the news, the direction of negociation and all the west efforts leads to military action.  "window period is over" said Obama in his recent speech.


Arash Kamangir

We can only gain through war

by Arash Kamangir on

I never can understand why some of us are against military intervention from abroad. What have we iranians have got to loose? We need to understand that we need to have a new start ( hour zero similar to Germany and Japan after 2nd WW) and start all over again. Iran can be built again only after IR has been demolished and mullahs have been eleminated. Long live Iranzamin 


MeyBokhor_Manbarbesuzan

@Thought

by MeyBokhor_Manbarbesuzan on

VI. It takes a democratic country to drop two atomic bombs on population areas and then complain about "massacres" in the third world. 


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Siavash300 the process of getting rid of current mullahs has

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

already been started, the IRI is in the process of getting recycled soon.  The problem for all Iranians is at what cost and which extremists is the USA trying to bring to power in their place?  The US/UK/French are in power struggles over the path to take and seem to only unite on the idea of supporting other religious extremists to meet their highest priority/top goals and interests for iranians future.  If they do unite it will make this process inhumane, messy and possibly bring an end to our dreams of Freedom for generations.  Since the interests are so big it is unlikely they will unite on a solution they can implement.  I have always believed that the only way for a people to win is to rally around the flag, in Irans case the king and the country are one.  RP's supporters can remove the regime, the joke in iran, but actually truth too, is that he has more support among the clergy than the IRI system.  The down side of rallying around the flag is that RP2 will not make it alive if the west see's him come forward with strong & open public support.  So timing of showing ones hand is key for his life, in the worst case, the monarchy will legally go to the most qualified leader in the line of heirship, as the strength of monarchy lies in its grass roots cultural unity not the leader, so they can get rid of a king, but not all the supporters from every thread within the country.  And that is the problem the wests plans have with respect to Iran, they created slander and wiped out one king in only 3 years, but not the monarchy which is within the society.  The real answer to your question Siavash is since you can't read the hands of the key powers, you have to be prepared to interact and be as flexible as possible once changes are made by them.    


Bavafa

Dear Arj: Why do you have to burst their bubbles?????

by Bavafa on

Some (not all) of the commentators on IC are living happily in the la-la land and don’t harm anybody, just dreaming.  Why do you have to be mean and burst their bubbles :)

'Hambastegi' is the main key to victory 

Mehrdad


Arj

Humourous musings of dwellers of la-la land!

by Arj on

Some of the comments here are almost as funny as Hitler's fascistic rantings right up to the moment he shot himself in the head! The only difference is that unlike Hitler who actually was involved in something, the cyber activists' laying in their comfort zones here, does not keep them from dismissing those in Iran who bear the brunt of the fronline struggle with IRI goons (both in and out of prisons) in order to assert their convictions on a daily basis!


Siavash300

Amirparvi..... you say how to get rid of mullahs

by Siavash300 on

"As for the intellectuals and others, they have to sell their souls in order to live in Iran, they can not openly speak for regime change " Amirpa....

So you tell us how we can get rid of mullahs? any suggestion? any idea?


maziar 58

...........

by maziar 58 on

The mullahs with their usual AAR AAR

Left Iran and Iranians with AAREh

With no where to go

forward or backward the AAreh will do its job.

Maziar


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

Siavash300 read my post below to simorg

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

the real problem is deeper and we cannot rely on the west to support peace, progress & human rights for Iran the way we could with the late shah, so your hopes are not realizable right now.  What we can rely on the west to do is support extremists that will harm irans ability to develop and progress as a core US Goal.

As for the intellectuals and others, they have to sell their souls in order to live in Iran, they can not openly speak for regime change against a true dictatorship, they can only sit around and lie about how the late shah was a dictator and how the extremists in power are comparable with Iran during the 30 best years of Irans history with the late shah.


Siavash300

The intellectuals!!! fail to say how we get rid of mullahs

by Siavash300 on

This video is only bashing one option which is strong option to get rid of mullahs, but it fails to address the core issue : how can we overthrown mullahs? please ask this question from all those voices and scholars. Why the writers and scholars are keep ignoring the problem?

please remember this is NOT a "war". it is intended to remove mullahs from power in Iran.

Important targeted areas : Majlis, friday pray, all basij head quarters, revolutionary guards and houses of Ali Geda.


amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

simorgh5555 they are limited in their view, as are you.

by amirparvizforsecularmonarchy on

I'm very sad to read and feel your pain.  The issue at hand is that The USA is only interested in supporting
extremists for Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan all the way to morrocco, the
reason is complex and is rooted in the aim for making these countries poor and weak and more easily controllable and this is what the USA/UK/France been single mindedly focussed on
for the last 33 years, so bombing doesn't fix Irans problem or that of the weaker and more backward countries (which the developed world feels entitled to force towards being backwards).  Iran has many varieties of extremists to replace the ones in power and this is what the USA is looking to do, like in afghanistan where they replaced the taliban with extremists now in charge.  This is all of the truth regarding why the late shah had to go,
because what he and his team did accomplish for Iranians was very different than the wests aim for Africa and the middle-east.  My heart goes out for the victims of IRI which will continue to grow in number until we can remove the IRI in a positive way, today I just see the hero's of Iran cornered
and being brutally crushed and burned, like our late shah was by the politics of
the civilized, democratic world.  Its not enough here to know who the criminals i iran are, you have to know who are the criminals behind them keeping them in place too.  The Shame Iranians are experiencing has not enough to admit they made a big mistake in 1979 and fix their own mistake, or as a very first step to research and admit that the bulk of the attacks against the late shah and his team were lies entirely manufactured by various political groups.  Its impossible to fix an unacknowledged mistake, so the west has a particular incentive to do her best to make sure Iranians do not learn from the last one or fix it, so the west can lead them to a newly orchestrated one.  And all I can say Simorgh555 is based on this evaluation Your comments are not helpful. 


Simorgh5555

Here is my voice......

by Simorgh5555 on

PLEASE SUPPORT MILITARY ACTION.

I'll say it again and again until bombs start to drop on top of the houses, military bases and centres of terrors of Ahmadinjead and Khamenei.

This regime must go. Whatever the price. Whatever the sacrifice. All Basij, Sepah and supporter of the Islamic Republic young or old are nothing but bilogical plasticine. Their lives are worthless to me. They have negated themselves not only as Iranians but as human beings.

I could not care if they end up as being 'collateral' damage'.

Iran must be set free. Military Action against the regime is the only solution. 

 


Thought

thoughts

by Thought on

Common Sense Rules:
I.
From now on we must put pressure on all people to make them realize that change is necessary. Starting with overweight people, starve them, that's best for them.
II.
We must only allow those who have money to reproduce so our future generation will have enough to eat.
III.
Iranians have not realized how bad things are so our pressures would make them realize what we have known for decades
IV.
We must work hard to police the world so things go the right way. That backward, dim wit, third world people need to upgrade.
V.
wars are necessities of democratic societies to implement freedom of our values, otherwise we will all be living in a world with many stupid cultures and values that we don't like.

Common Sense Iranian Solution Suggestion:
Air tight sanction and aggressive policies to make people realize how hard life is. Otherwise they continue to go on in living a life as if they have it good, and that sucks.

--END of Script--


hirre

It is really scary to read

by hirre on

It is really scary to read about "intellectuals" talking about negotiations as if you are dealing with a logical entity... I will repeat what I said before, if you could negotiate with Hitler, then you can negotiate with the IR...

In my opinion sanctions are the only way, until the people get so uncomfortable that they change the regime by their own power. Only idiots believe there can be targeted sanctions and that they will lead to regime change... Broad sanctions, like a broad spectrum antibiotics is the only way Iran will change from within...