MOVEMENT

The bridge of your flowers.

A bright

melody is the

singing that

gives me the

trace of
delicate

winds, with

a loving idea

near a
persuasive

care.

Francesco
Sinibaldi

green rope-a-dope

green rope-a-dope. nothing more!

Well Nikahang Jan It's Never late to Recruit One ... ;0)

If you are looking for an Unapologetic Constitutional Monarchist ...

I'm Your Man: 

Darius KADIVAR Blogger,Paris FRANCE (iranian.com)

Darius Kadivar List of Articles on PersianMirror

Bee Tarof !

;0) 

Amicalement Votre aka Mokhlesseh Shoma

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=dAxvfmGUjuQ

DK 

Darius Kadivar is a Freelance Journalist, Film Historian, Writer, Media Consultant and contributes from Paris, France. 

Amir Arjomand ... still loyal to Khomeini

Our "reformists" don't even understand the meaning of "reform". For them, talking to and negotiating with murderers and rapists proves one's "maturity". This kind of "logic" is an insult. 

Read about Amir Arjomand's pathetic attempt at covering for Moussavi's role in the mass killings of prisoners in the 1980s:

//p111272.typo3server.info/10.html?&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=14159&tx_ttnews[backPid]=23&cHash=73d5863e82d2530c9b077f63e54775ee 

خودنویس رنگ ندارد و حامی هیچ گروهی نیست

دوستی خودنویس را در نزدیک به سلطنت‌طلبان دیده بود. چنین نیست و نخواهد بود.

اینکه خودنویس جایی است که منتقدین رفرمیست‌های حکومتی و مخالفان سازش با نظام آنرا محلی برای انتشار مطالب خود یافته‌اند، شاید ناشی ازسانسور نگاه‌های انتقادی در سایت‌های سبز باشد.

در ترکیب تحریریه کوچک خودنویس، سبز داریم، طرفدار خاتمی داریم، طرفدار بنی‌صدر داریم... اما طرفدار سلطنت و رضا پهلوی نداریم.

امیر ارجمند باید شفاف‌تر عمل کند

دکتر امیر ارجمند معمولا پاسخ‌های قاطع نمی‌دهد و در ضمن سعی می‌کند با همه موافق باشد. جواب بسیاری از سوال‌ها، بله یا نه است، نه دو ساعت توضیحی که در حافظه‌ها باقی هم نمی‌مانند.

در مورد اعدام‌های دهه ۶۰ و سال ۶۷ هم پاسخ‌هایی داده‌اند که بررسی مجدد‌شان لازم است.

Bear Club for Men!

Looking at his multiple flaming rings, pink shirt, cufflinks
and the fur on his face, he looks more like a recruiter for the Bear Club for Men than a political
activist. 

As a side note, wait for him to show up on IR’s propaganda
channels and claim that he was an infiltrator like Madhi, etc….

Green = Islam

In Iranian history, green color has always represented the Islamic era. Among Iranian Moslems, seyyeds are a group of Shiie Moslem that their ancestors go back as far as Imam Ali, and their symbol has been green color.

That is why reformist leader of green movement, is so faithful to Islamic ideology, and Khomeini's golden years. Iranians are from various ethnic and religious backgrounds, with different views and ideology, and majority prefer a secular regime. Therefore, why not unite under a Rainbow Movement that represents various Iranian groups, including the Green Movement?

There is hope!

Just the fact that he has added words like "democracy" and "human rights" to his vocabulary should be celebrated. Keep in mind that 30 years ago, this very same gentleman would have put a bullet in your head if you questioned his faith or revolution. There is hope. I suspect in a generation or two, Iran will make its exit from the 13th century and finds its renaissance. Unfortunately, you and I will not be around to see it.

سوپاپ اطمینان جمهوری اسلامی

به منظور دوری از هر گونه پیش داوری، فقط از خوانندگان محترم تقاضا میکنم ، اولین سوپاپ اطمینانی که به نظرشون میاد ، اینجا بنویسن.

Motion to change "Green Hope" to "Emam's Hope"

In honor of Emam Khomeini, who is the unquestioned leader, light, inspiration, and hope of every one of the wonderful Islamist Green leaders (from the Prime Minister of 1981-1989 to the President of 1989-1997 and the President of 1997-2005). I would like to submit a motion to change the "Green Hope North American Tour of 2011" to the "Emam's Hope" for establishment of Eslam-e Nab-e Mohammadi not only in Iran but throughout Dar al-Harb. All those in favor....

Well put

Arash.

Character assasination or hollier than thou attitude is the standard MO for those who will resort to anything to defend the indefensible. Even here those who have yet to absorb the basic premise of democracy as they live in it, exhibit all the dictatorial conducts that got us in this hell hole in the first place. The 'golden years of Khomeini' which is the alleged defense for Mousavi's reference, started in Najaf and blossomed in Paris with a mansion, 26 phone lines, guards, police escort and enough money to last a few life times for a whole tribe. And its most fierce defenders were the lefties and islamists that got here to America and Europe mostly thanks to progress Iran had made before evil devoured it.And they are still here, not in the panacea they helped create.

Now lets see what we know and can summize beyond innuendo and cheap talk:

-Amir Arjomand is the direct rep of Mousavi

-Mousavi is a product of Khatami and a benefactor of his support

-Khatami just apologized to the chief murderer Khamenei on behalf of Iranian people having given so much life and blood to get a half baked result out of even that fake election of theirs

-Khamenei needs a triage and leveraging against the cluster that he created (read: AN). Remember his endorsement 'the best president of the rapist republic ever...'

-Loss of AN and whatever support he has needs to be accounted for before totally doing away with him.

-The weakest link in this equation are the reformist (Rafsanjani included) who have lost most if not all credibility after showing total and utter incompetence in responding to a natural uprising and redeeming themselves. 

-Mousavi did not call for decisive and regime ending protests when he could at the most critical junctures of the past two years. People still showed up and are still showing up.

-Reformists have recognized the holes in their midst and absent the only remaining source of 'input' and support (Read: confused green) and send their ambasador to recruit material and intellectual support so they have better leverage with Khamenei over the next round of 's'elections.

-Reformists gain some assemblance of power (read: share of looting Iran) and declare that they had it right all along and reformes were the way out of "crisis".

-They develop a better negotiating hand if all goes well and they go back to their classic line: "we are the only ones who can bring excitement to the elections and make the polls busy".

-Khameni gains because IRI with him on top remains for at lest another decade or so and has to give up relatively little power. Having destroyed AN gang by then, he can get back to completely destroying reformist.

This game has begun already: Amir Arjomand shows up conveniently with visa at the ready, and arrangements at Berkeley among other venues. Mohammad Khatami is granted permission by Khamenei himself to start the 'conversation of civilization' and 'Havermas' crap, and rest of the show that is being hastily designed.

Oh, and a new kind of 'hope' and 'opposition' whose leadership committee is 'anonymous' for 'safety' reason while their rep readily travels and lecturs in U.S.. You can't make this stuff up if you tried.

Reformist and conservative need each other more than ever if they are to survive. vatan foroushi is alive and well, as is falling for every 2 bit trick like the ones the alleged 'opposition' that was 'exposed' by the rapist republic or the one Amir Arjomand is playing now.

Oktaby

communication scoreboard reads zero-zero

As long as folks are talking over each other in a condescending tone, IRI will keep on saying: opposition! my foot (or an organ slightly above).

Monopoly of power by the

Monopoly of power by the reformist vs the monopoly of power by the VF...there is no difference. Is there? both entitites want to be the only source of political and economic and religious power in the society. The reformists still have a choice to be on the right side of history by relinquishing their greed and lust for absolute power... Othewise, it's going to be haman asho haman kaseh...

Reformists need to reform themselves first before asking other to reform.

Mr Majid Zahrai

آقا مجید زهرایی‌

اگر منظورتان از از کسانی که در خودنویس می‌نویسند، کنایه به حقیر است، از شما خواهش می‌کنم که ۵ دقیقه وقت بگذارید و مقاله بنده را بخوانید و سپس "همه" خودنویس را به مشروطه خواه  (که اشکالی‌ هم ندارد) و به ضدیّت با جنبش سبز متهم کنید. لطفا سند جنبش سبز را به نام آقای امیر ارجمند و شورای هماهنگی‌ نزنید. مردم ایران در انتخابات ۷۶ و انتخابات اخیر با عقاید مختلف و گرایش‌های سیاسی متفاوت یک صدا خواهان تغییر حاکمیت بوده اند، امروز عده‌ای خود را صاحب این حرکت میدانند، اتفاقی‌ که سال ۵۷ هم افتاد و انقلابی که حاصل تلاش همه مردم بود به گروگان گرفته شد (اتفاقا تعداد زیادی از آن اشخاص که آن سالها همه گروه‌های سیاسی را با انگ زدن از متن بیرون راندند امروز خود را صاحب جنبش سبز میدانند)

بنده قصد دفاع از خودنویس ندارم، ولی‌ فکر میکنم حکم کلی‌ صادر کردن و انگ زدن و سیاه و سفید دیدن، و ترس از نقد شدن، اشتباه است. 

با احترام

Sobhani is asking all the

Sobhani is asking all the right  questions and I am sick of people trying to discredit people using identity politics. I am not a monarchist nor are many of us here, but we have the same exact questions as Mr. Sobhani and have had it for a long time. It just that Mr. Sobhani was able to articulate it much better than any of us could do here.

Khodnevis appears pro-monarchy

There is nothing wrong with being pro-monarchy, but when your King and your major supporters have lived outside Iran for decades, you don't have much to show other than a nostalgic look at your King's father's era and what your King says he is going to do differently. 

Khodnevis and its contributors consistently beat the Green Movement and its leaders, without talking about their own agenda. The MKO do the same thing; first they tried to hijack the Green Movement and the young men and women who lost their lives for it, than they decided to attack the Green Movement viciously. If you read their literature, it's not that different from the stuff on Khodnevis, save for the Maryam Jan talk.They are full of hate for all those who support the Green Movement.

The pro-war, pro-Israel current converges with the monarchists and MKO right here, where each of them attacks the Green Movement for their own reason.  The sad thing is that the MKO and the pro-Israel lobby are looking for a military attack on Iran.  What the heck are the monarchists doing in the middle of these dubious groups?  Reza Pahlavi would do well to pay attention to what his "supporters" are doing or pay a high price for this in public opinion, especially if there is an actual military attack on Iran.

As much as the "lengesh kon" crowd would like to ignore this fact, the Green movement supporters and leaders have paid a high price for their dissent, even if it does not appear adequate or perfect to many people's way of thinking. The diaspora opposition continues to pay no price for a lot of hot air, and now the hot air is directed at the very people who first voted, and then took to streets to look for their votes and paid with their lives and their liberty--the Green Movement.

reformists are the obstacle to democracy

can someone please provide me the resume of what reformists have done since 1979.  How did they help Iranians, how did they help my generation. 

they only thing they did is ask for permission to protest while egyptians asked for no permission.  they told people to go home when 4 million people were in the streets while egyptians told people to stay in the streets as long as it takes and spend the night.

they are just upset because they lost power in this rapist regime and want to get power back not give democarcy to the people of iran. 

as people can see the iranian people are not resonding to their call to action.  the biggest sin the reformists have is that they help slow down a major uprising.

i support a free democarctic iran with rights for all, even reformists.

Dear Mr. Sobhani

Great response to Mammad.

This semi Anonymous Mr. Mammad is Professor Sahimi who has had ties with the IRI.

Mr. Mammad, claims to be for a secular Iran and also claims to be for freedom of speech, religion and all other good stuff that comes with a true democracy.... However, he will qualify these cherished freedoms with one excuse or another. For example, I remember in another blog, where he said that he believes that everyone in Iran should have freedom of speech except for multi national entities. When he was pressed as to why multi national entities should not have freedom of speech, he said that because these entities sometimes try to convert Muslims into Christians. So much for the professor's belief in freedom of speech and religion.

I am sorry to say that  many people like Mr. Mammad are part of this "green movement" who have belief systems that are simply not compatible with true democratic and secular values. 

. 

Professor Mammad Says "So What" ????

Are you kidding Mammad? So what?

Mr. Sobhani is asking all the right questions. These are the questions that your generation failed to asked when there was a so called "referendum"  to establish the "Islamic Republic". No one dared to ask 32 years ago, no one questioned 32 years ago and no one dared to say that the Vali Fagih would have the same powers as the Shah who people like you deposed with pride. People like you 32 years ago said "so What" that Khomeini can over rule everything. He is a "holy" man so we trust him. People like you said "so what" that the IRI constitution is a sexist, bigoted and defamatory piece of document "khomeni said we will all have free electricity and he is holy" so we will accept him. 

No Mammad, your leftist Islamist type had its chance and you screwed up royally. 

People like Arjomand MUST unequivocally say what they mean when they talk about Vali Fagih and other important foundational matters of establishing a true secular democratic system. "So What" will no longer be sufficient to shut us up.

Thank you Mr. Sobhani!

خالی نبند اردشیر!

I juss couldn't resist!

" امیر
ارجمند غوغا می‌کند. او اخیراً در دو نوبت ثابت کرد که قادر است هر کاری
که بهش می‌گویند بکند و هر حرفی که بهش گفته باشند بزند. فقط اگر یک دستی
هم به آن موهایش بکشد دیگر هیچ چیزی برای دلبری کم ندارد".

//www.khodnevis.org/persian/%D8%B7%D9%86%D8%B...

Sobhani has every right to say what he says

Reformists are fundamentally Islamists many are the architects of this regime, that is their natural tendency.  MG mentioned their (12) symbolism. To follow them no questions asked and hope for the best is the biggest mistake seculars could make.  

I ask myself, why is Mr. Amir Arjomand out of IR's prison and who is he trying to court here in the diaspora.  If he is courting the Iranian diaspora then he must think he needs them and if the diaspora is truly secular in its thought it should emphatically say so and make that (along with other issues of concern) condition for a deal.   

I urge everyone to read Arash Sobhani's article. I found it very simple and to the point.  

Every Iranian should speak his/her mind and,  not accept half truths and inuendo.  Of course it is not enough to say  "religion should not be a tool of opretion" (what does that mean?).  Seculars should know in no uncertain terms that reformists believe in a secular state.  Enough cat and mouse games.  

Sobhani's article was posted by Fred ealier on this thread. 

از طرف کسی‌ که هیچ نمیداند

آقا ممد، دوست عزیزی که مثل شورای هماهنگی‌ "مخفی‌" هستید و نام و فامیلتون معلوم نیست. فرق  بنده با جنابعالی همین نکته است که جنابعالی خیلی‌ راحت میتونید مثل رهبرانتون حکم صادر کنید و بگید:"knows nothing"

در حالی‌ که حقیر معتقدم که همه حق دارند نظر بدهند حتا اگر یکی‌ مثل بنده عوام باشه و یکی‌ مثل جنابعالی دانای کلّ. ما رایمون در یک دموکراسی برابر است. متاسفم!

بسیار خوب، آقای ممد، جناب عقل کلّ، که استدلال منطقی‌ تون در حد  "so what"  هست، اجازه بدهید که ما عوام بی‌ سواد که هیچ نمی‌دانیم در این ظلمات خودمون غرق باشیم و شما و دوستانتان که نور به قلوبتان تابیده، مملکت را نجات دهید. کسی‌ جلوی شما را نگرفته، این شما، این شورای مخفی‌ و آقای امیر ارجمندتان، ولی‌ اگر حوصله میکردید و مقاله حقیر را که هیچ چیزی در مورد هیچ چیز نمیدانم تا به انتها مطالعه میفرمودید، شاید متوجه میشدید که موضع مقاله این است که برای رسیدن به دموکراسی امروز احتیاج به یک شورای فراگیر داریم و با توجه به پیشینه تمام گروه‌های سیاسی که متاسفانه هیچکدام روشن نیست، رسیدن به یک آشتی‌ ملی‌ و همگرایی اجتناب ناپذیر است، البته تکرار می‌کنم، اگر فرض بر این باشد که "بخواهیم" به دموکراسی برسیم. (البته به نظر نمیرسد که شما اصراری به دموکراسی هم داشته باشید چون بالاخره چطور یک نفر مثل ممد آقا که همه چیز میداند با یک نفر مثل حقیر که هیچ چیزی در مورد هیچ چیز نمیدانم برابر است؟؟) 

برای دوستان دیگر هم اینجا لینک مقاله حقیر را میگذارم تا خود قضاوت کنند. قبلا از این که جسارت کردم و به چنان مقام مهمی‌ که همه چیز را در مورد همه چیز میداند پاسخ دادم، پوزش می‌طلبم، امیدوارم بنده را مورد "رأفت اسلامی" قرار بدهید.

//www.khodnevis.org/index.php?news=13380 

...

To make a long story short, along the lines of a double population growth, we also have a massive expansion  of social spaces not present before, or not at this scale.

For instance university students back in '79 were only about 35, to 40 thousands max, today it's approx. 300 hundred thousands, with a good portion outside of the center, (needless to say almost all these campuses were also cites of protests in the past two years), and it's not only about the scales in Higher Education.

Concurrent with this growth, there is  also an extreme expansion of class polarities, income, and statues inequalities, (imposed on workers and women) all and all making IR a monstrosity all its own.

Let's see what Sobhani says

Let us see what Sobhani said "he did not hear" Amir Arjomand say and what it means or does not mean. 

1. Amir Arjomand never said "referendum." So what? Everyone knows that to change something at this scale, there has to be a referendum.

2. He never said "Velaayat-e Faghih." So what? When the man says that the legitimacy of the power is bestowed upon by people's vote, that ruling a nation is something "zamini" not "ghodsi," and when we hear everyday how Khamenei's supporters try every day to link him to the heavens and make it ghodsi, why is it so important to say the damned word?

3. He never said "secularism." While it would be nice if he had said it, but when he says that religion should not be a tool for oppression - which is necessarily done by those who are in power - is it not the same as saying it outright?

4. He never uttered "Bahaei" or "homosexual." Grand Ayatollah Hossein-Ali Montazeri, the most important clerical supporter of the GM, already issued a historical fatwa over two years ago, recognizing the Bahais' rights as full fledged citizens. As far as I know, that is the position of the opposition INSIDE Iran.Even Mohammad Javad Larijani had to lie, sauying, no Bahaei is being arrested for practicing its belief. The point is, even he sees the signs on the walls.

As for homsexuals, the author should consider the effect that talking about such an issue will have on the people INSIDE Iran. It is not as if the Iranian people are all liberals. Even in this country, the conservatives are fighting tooth and nail, and people get elected in many parts of this country by being anti-gay. I support such rights, but I have lived in this country 33 years.

5. Pure conjecture and speculations. Sobhani knows nothing, but cannot stop his impluses from saying something about somethuing that he does not know.

6. "Why must people give power to these guys (Mousavi et al.)? They are not the only ones that have changed." Sheer absurdity.

First of all, no one has said that people MUST bring to power "these people." No one forced anyone to go out and vote or demonstrate for "these people." So, if they have or will, it has been, or will be, their choice. The choice is the people's.

Secondly, those whom Sobhani or others think can be alternatives, or are propped up as such, can carry out a simple test of their base of power: Ask the people inside Iran to come out at the specific time and place and demonstrate for them, to see what happens, or indicate other reasonable ways of demonstrating their popularity.

Third, The criterion is collective, not just one act. The Mojahedin only offense was not that it overestimated its power and underestimated the power of its foes, and sent thousands of their supporters to their death. Their offense, in my opinion, is that they moved to Iraq, spied on Iran, made an alliance with Iraq against Iran during the war, attacked Iran with Iraq's help, helped Saddam kill Kurds and Shiites, and committed all other types of treasons. They are still committing treason. Putting Mousavi and MKO on the same level is ridiculous, if Sobhani meant it that way. Of course, Mousavi and others must someday respond to all the allegations and clarify their stance. That is for sure. But, the two are not comparable.

Fourth, even if changing by itself gives legitimacy, Sobhani's argument is absurd. The last time I looked, MKO had not changed. The last time I checked, Reza Pahlavi was saying very good things, but many of his supporters - at least most of those that are vocal - had not changed. Just look at what some of them say here in this website!

7. All sheer conjectures and speculations. All the major reformist figures within Iran have made it clear that they will not take part in any future election unless the minimum conditions are materialized: Unconditional release of all the political prisoners; free press; freedom for formation of political groups; freedom of peaceful protests, gatherings, etc.; free - in its true sense of the word - elections, and return of the Sepaah to the barracks. Just read what Mohammad Reza Khatami said the other day. No one believes that Khamenei and Sepaah will agree to these, in which case it is mute.But, if they do, they will be finished in a hurry!

What Sobhani says about future Majles also goes to show how much he knows. The current Majles does already have 60 reformist deputies, plus another 30 independent who are in fact reformists. So, there are ALREADY 90 of them. But, they have not been to do much, because of the structure of power, which explains why all the minimum conditions have been set.

What Sobhani says about Khamenei sending signals is also sheer nonsense. Just read what Hossein Shariatmadari of Kayhan said the other day: Calling AN the corrupt, and the opposition the MOST Corrupt, and this guy is Khamenei's mouthpiece. Yes, he is sending signals, but not the way Sobhani claims!

Mammad

Another difference in thirty years

The population explosion from 30 million to 75 million.  Water shortage and shortage of other resources.  

MM, building a bridge with reformists is not to blindly follow them but to push/negotiate/pull to a common ground.  

JJ

I was also bothered by Mousavi expressing a desire to go back to Khomeini's golden years.  But, we have to keep in mind the old Persian saying of "kenaayeh", i.e., there are rumors that Mousavi refers to the time of Khomeini in France as the golden years of Khomeini at which time he promised secular democracy to the Iranians (summarized by David ET as “50 lies under the apple tree”).  

Personally, I wish someone had asked Ardeshir Armir Arjomand what Khomeini’s golden years meant.  We need to extend a bridge to the Greens inside Iran to identify commonalities that bind us instead of being in this perpetual war of words and condescension. 

It's a lot more complicated than emotions and personal feelings

It's called class struggle. We have a society  in  dire poverty (with at least 15 millions in absolute poverty), a most horrendous gender prejudice imposed on women (half the population), on top of class prejudice, all indices of social pathologies gone wild (addiction, prostitution, environment,...endless blood bath of the past two years,...) and Mr. Arjomand's top priority remains to be active 'within the constitution of IR.' As they say in persian: the house is defunct from the base, and he's worried about the hallway!

What adds more than any other element to the complexity of today's Iranian politics, is not only the massive amount of reconstruction needed to rebuild the country, it's also perhaps the 'development' (I know it's a loaded term but it happened in its own way) of Iran in the past three decades. Everyone keeps comparing today's Iran with Iran of 30 years ago, which is probably the worst mistake one can do.

At the end of the day its all about the balance of forces and organization. With a leadership of Mr. Arjomand's type, the balance of forces will always remain in favour of IR, with not much, if any organization.

............

why not every other political group accept the idea of reform within their  own outdated by laws.. if all the political groups let go of their egoistic ideology and break free with their own past in order to reform just like what the greens are trying to do then there will be only one movement and that is the reform movement .....

but alas we are so hateful towards each other and so blindly worship our own views of life and our own political groups that I see no hope at least for now  

So you have to fight

So you have to fight (struggle, work, campaign, debate, write, march) to gain that power, be it through Reformists, MKO, Pahlavis, etc (it doesn't matter) once you abdicate your power, all these groups will eventually act the same way (to their own advantage and not yours).

Mehraban jan, gol gofti. Reformists only look after their own, extremely sectarian as MG mentioned down thread.