PROTEST

Dear Nazy, thanks for beautiful pictures

Nazy jan, I got involved with this discussion of flags and later on, you asked Ari and me about what organizers are supposed to do when some people bring flags when they have been told not to? I think once flags have been brought, there is not much that can be done except those of us that don't want to, don't have to display the flag just because somebody hands them to us. 

Dear Nazy, Your pictures are very beautiful and show the sea of people gathering to voice their support for human rights in Iran. I especially like the emphasis you put on hands.  Thanks again for your dedication to cause of freedom in Iran. 

Folks

It seems to me the discussion about the flag is a very interesting one. It is also a very Iranian subject, something we must pay attention to because it is threatening to tear Iranians abroad apart. There are other threads where we can discuss about Israel and Palestinians, but not too many where we can talk about something that really bothers so many Iranians.

I think the real problem isn't the monarchists' use of the shir-o-khorshid flag.  The problem is MKO's use of that flag. Iranians are so conflicted about MKO's relationship to Iran and its role in the Iran-Iraq war. That flag is used as one of their symbolisms now and it makes people react very negatively.

I guess for about a decade there, many people felt the same way about the monarchists use of that flag, but since everyone knows by now that Iran will never be a monarchy again, people don't feel conflicted about the monarchists use of shir-o-khorshid flag. At least that's what I think. 

If and when there is a chance for a new flag in a democratic Iran, I am sure there will be chances for citizens to participate in suggesting the shape and design of it.

Can we stop fighting over the flag until such day? It seems so wasteful, especially when we are building a new identity together outside Iran these days. 

Yes you did

Although this post is not about the Israeli Palestinian conflict, I
have to respond to your accusation that I lied about the Israeli use of
phosphorus gas in Gaza.

The lie was in your characterization of it as a poison gas, when in fact it is a smoke munition that is in use by every military in the world, including Irans.

And just so you know, you wasted your time with all those propaganda links. I ignore known propagandists, which you most certainly are. When I pointed out you were wrong, instead of trying to learn the truth, you attempted to "prove" your lie. I have no time for you. If you are part of the "green" movement, I have to say I think they'd be better off without you. But since I'm not Iranian, I guess I have no say in the matter. But I can offer the observation that people like you have accomplished exactly nothing for Palestinians, all these years.

Responses to Nazi, Craig and Kadivar

Dear Nazi, Your photographic efforts to share your experience of the massive SF protest is much appreciated. Thank you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 

Craig (ex-programmer):

Although this post is not about the Israeli Palestinian conflict, I have to respond to your accusation that I lied about the Israeli use of phosphorus gas in Gaza. Here's a utube account of Israeli soldiers breaking the silence and confessing to use of white phosphorus gas in civilian aread as ordered by their military commanders, indiscriminate "shoot to kill policy", using civilians as human shields, ad nauseum :

//www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=102684367502&h=sUYER&u=BLCCb

//www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=102684367502&h=sUYER&u=BLCCb

Amnesty International reports after extensive investigation:

//www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=102684367502&h=sUYER&u=BLCCb

//www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=102684367502&h=sUYER&u=BLCCb

An Israeli media admitting that Israel does not want peace:

 //www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=105046123294&h=TxXs4&u=p8sIE

Guardian's three-part investigations of israeli war crimes in Gaza;

//www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=102684367502&h=sUYER&u=BLCCb

//www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=102684367502&h=sUYER&u=BLCCb

//www.facebook.com/ext/share.php?sid=102684367502&h=sUYER&u=BLCCb

You may also want to check out the four part series "Reflections of War" on youtube. All you have to do is some research before you badmouth people who have done their homework!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As for the arrogant zionist Daius Kadivar, all I have to say is "Javab-e ablahan khamoosheest!"

Ramona

Ramona

Little Tweet

are you for real?  Their flag?!!!  - Shir o Khorshid is Iran's flag.   In fact Aria means lion - Iran means land of lions.   But all that aside - do you know significance of flags - any flag?   Flag provides an umbrella under which people unify - or stand for the same cause.   Now if there ever was a time Iranians outside Iran needed to unify - this is it.   and the shir o khorshid flag is the only umbrella we have to gather under.    You wish to have a Green movement - great.   But if your movement is for an Iranian cause, Iran's flag has to be there - or your movement will fail.

shaayad keh Jaan if I may respectfully ...

Whoever you are under your Anonymous identity. I have no hard feelings towards you. I am sorry if I sounded rude but do know that given the challenges our nation is facing and paying for dearly particularly the Brave youth and Brave Women of Iranzamin that we also need to be aware that the Regime and its Apologists will Do EVERYTHING in their Power to influence us and divide us as a community ONLY to allow the survival of their system and perpetuate this wretched and morally corrupt Theocracy which is even totally at ODDS with True and noble hearted Religious values that many honest believers cherish.

Unfortunately There May be More Blood spilled in this uneven struggle between Armed Militias of the Islamic Republic and the Nation at Large.

I do not know if our people will have that courage to endure all this suffering and continue the fight in the future. I don't claim to know what they want. But I do think that I have a clear idea of What THEY DON'T WANT and that is ANOTHER SACRIFICED GENERATION.

Iranians are Enslaved by this corrupt Theocracy. If they wish their children to live in a more Tolerant and Free Iran, they have to know that there is a Price to Pay. They actually Know it.

To Not Demonstrate tomorrow on grounds that this is about Monarchy VS Republic or Revolution VS Anti Revolution is Missing the Point Totally.

We are a Stubborn Nation. It is both a Quality and a Handicap depending on how we use it.

Today ONLY Unity Counts if we hope to make a small difference in this uneven struggle.

This Regime Should Not have a Second Chance after all it has done to two generations.

This Mother (from Farah Ravon's equally beautiful Photo Essay) :

//iranian.com/main/image/74451

like many other mothers is demonstrating not for the MKO, the Monarchy or the Republic But like Neda's Parents for making sure that her daughter or son did not die in vain.

I ask you Who are we to Judge her or her daughter's actions once dead particularly after 30 years ?

The least we can do is have some Empathy regardless of whether or not her daughter was an MKO or Shahi or Republican.

WE ARE ALL IRANIANS

And despite differences of opinion I think we all share a common goal and that is to see a Free and Democratic Iran where No Mother or father has to cry the death of a Neda, Sohrab or Amir.

It will take many tears, blood and sweat before time soothes the pain and heals to scars of 30 years of this wretched and corrupt regime unique in our history since Chenghiz Khan ( I am simply quoting Moussavi himself)

SO LETS TRY AT LEAST NOT TO GIVE THE IRI AND ITS APOLOGISTS THE PLEASURE OF SEEING US IN THE DIASPORA DIVIDED ON OUR TRUE VALUES AND COMMON IDENTITY !

Lastly Let's accept our differences ( for they do Exist) SIDE BY SIDE and Not AGAINST ONE ANOTHER !

Its a question of mutual Tolerance and mutual respect that we owe one another.

My Humble Opinion and once again sorry if my comments and dark humor or sarcasm may have hurt your feelings.

Respectfully,

DK

it happens quietly

Today they squeeze in their flag, tomorrow they start killing the ones with green flags. We'll get hijacked just like in 79

Ari Jaan Actually I can do Better Than That ;0)

Like have Her Carry the Flag :

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-bRa86a8to&feature=related
 

LOL

In anycase God Bless this Brave Woman and others like her be them monarchist or not.

But seriously I Loved the link you provided. The fact remains that the Lion IS a Royal Emblem in nearly all Pagan and Pre and Post Medieval cultures but that does not mean that its presence notably on the Shiro Khorsheed Flag is a Royalist symbol for that matter.

Some countries and cultures with a Republican tradition and system of government have actually kept their Royal Emblems on their National Flags not as a symbol of Royalty but of continuity.

It just happens that in most Asian and Middle Eastern societies and civilizations the Lion has been a symbol of the State and Power in the Same way the Eagle has been in the United States and many European countries like Germany or Poland all of which are Republics today. But the Eagle was originally a Symbol of the Roman Republic but also the subsequent Empire under the Caesars.

The Imperial Significance is simply traditional but did not replace but rather switched with its Republican significance. They simply co- exist as National Symbols of continuity and unity.

Same thing for the colors of the French Flag where Blue symbolizes the Royalty and Red the Blood shed for the Republic.

What was omited in the latter Flag was the Lys Flower aka Fleure de Lyse which also symbolized the French Bourbon King's Emblem like the respective Jeweled Qajar and Pahlavi Crowns in the Qajar or Pahlavi Shiro Khorsheed Flags .

The Shiro Khorsheed however without the Crown is a politically Neutral but Nationalistic Flag which has been equally been respected by Monarchists and Republicans ( Jomhury Khah).

I very much doubt that my generation considers the current Islamic Republic Flag as Legitimate given its Religious and Alien connotation. This has nothing to do with Xenophobia towards Arabs or Arab Culture but about NATIONAL IDENTITY !

But given what I see in regard to the Solidarity movement taking place today in our community I would even argue that the best and most coherent comparison that should shed some clarity ain the confused Diaspora Psyche ( due to 30 years of Islamic Propaganda) of the younger generation ( to which You and I don't belong and have less excuse to doubt on this issue for that matter ) on the significance of National Symbols is that there is a difference between a Herald and a Flag. A Herald can represent a Party or Family like it did in the middle Ages very much like the Green Colour some display as either a Flag or Head Band or Arm Band or pins of all sorts and What we consider as a National Flag that concerns the entire nation's identity which in our case should by all logic be the Shiro Khorsheed. Unless of course one has respect for the current Forked Arab Sickle that has superseded our Noble Lion.

The Only truly contemporary parralel I can think of is that of the Polish Nation. Not only because they faced a similar challenge as Iranians today in getting rid of a system at odds with their own national identity but also values.

They considered Communism as imposed on them after WWII by the Russians who were their historical foes in the same way we Iranians regard Arabs and the Islamic Republic as a Hoax imposed on us by historical circumstances ( Not refering here to any conspiracy theory but the fact that we consider that the Revolution to some extent was highjacked by the clerics and Islam).

Yet The Current Polish Post-Communist Flag as we know it today is actually the Flag of the Kingdom of Poland that is the Eagle with A CROWN on top.

//en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flaga_z_godlem_Rzeczypospolitej_Polskiej.PNG

And Yet the country of Poland is a Republic.

I would Like to know Why WE Make Such a fuss about the SHiro Khorsheed ( without even the Crown) But No One in Poland seems to make a Fuss about their Crown Headed Eagle in Poland ?

More on the Polish Flag Here:

I am sure one can find other similar examples in Europe.

My Humble Opinion on this issue,

respectfully,

DK

thanks Nazy...

enjoyed the pictures.

Great Job Bay Area

The significance of that demonstration was that there was no "Flag" issue.   "Shir o Khorshid" and "green" side by side for freedom in Iran. 

Darius

If the flag hurts the movement so be it.

 "If the flag hurts the movement so be it." is the key word. My intention was finding ways not to hurt the movement. The reality might be that we have no other choice though and this how it is.

It was simplistic of me to think dialogue might be a way out. I get emotional when I see or read reports of people torchered or killed. My bad. Please do not take my statements as sarcasm, I really think at this stage that is all we can do with all the resources and knowledge at hand.

This has been a learning process for me and I know I have a lot of growing up in me.

Thanks to all of specially DK since we may have the same end result in mind but different approaches.

Peace,

Shaayad Keh

Now now

While I hope we didn't have a flag issue we have and we're not gonna solve it.  Never.  As an example look at the American confedrate flag.  Up until 3 or 4 years ago it was flying high on South Carolina's capitol.  You may not see it in San Francisco but go to southern state and try again.

As far as this discussion while I don't support the lion and sun flag, I think this started with "you are dead wrong".  You can't call someone he is "dead wrong" and expect him to walk away.

Now if there are millions of Iranians who can afford to have a "private" rally all by themselves and prevent those with flags to attend then yes by all means go for it and you don't have to deal with this flak :-)  But we don't and the protests while plenty they are not comparable to the ones in Iran.  So have your smirk and move on.  Remind yourself that you're in America and anything goes.  If the flag hurts the movement so be it.  There isn't anything you can do about it.

Everything is sacred.

FYI/How the "Green" Color Was Chosen before Elections

قرعه کشی تبلیغات انتخابات ریاست جمهوری ایران

Yellow: Karoubi 

Green: Mousavi

Red: Ahmadinejad ( the Guy who holds the red ball is no other than Mehdi Kalhor the  cultural Advisor of Ahmadinejad who asked the Retrievel of Marjane Satrapi's Film from the Cannes Film festival in 2007)

Blue: Rezaei

Ari Jaan ... Pass Een Ham Tokhmeyeh ? ...

Food for Thought:

Iranians are sending Clear Signals of what they see as Green and it has NOTHING to do with MOUSSAVI( whom no one including the monarchists have ever targeted or criticized  in any of these demonstrations)  or His Inexistent Program:

Ferdowsi Goes Green:

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5f6rkwDGJQ

Iranians gather for Nowrooz ( a few years ago) at Cyrus the Great's Tomb and display Shiro Khorsheed Flag (3:36):

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CQAb1a7fwQ

Might as well ask People from now on to avoid singing EY IRAN which is NOT the official anthem of the Islamic Republic.

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xjc0EQklhmM

And maybe we should Even endorse  the claim that Neda's assassination was caused by a CIA Agent in Tehran ?

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=grgS0tx_QuE&feature=related

Akheh Yaani Cheeh ?

Its seems that ANYTHING that should Remind us of our own National Priorities and identity has to be dissolved by the regular so called "Grass Root" Iranian American lobbies who have an answer for and to everything as if people did not know that have Their Own Calculated Agenda :  

//iranian.com/main/node/74200

All this Flag talk is a Calculated Effort to divide Iranians abroad and I wouldn't be surprised if NIAC/AIC   are behind this new assault to Highjack our Patriotism. And don't take this as if I am Blaming you or others for being an NIAC member ...

Lastly For Your information NEDA DID NOT EVEN VOTE !

So in such a context associating her picture to the Green Color should normally even be considered as indecent.

Yet None of you guts seem to be complaining about that. How Come ?

NAIVITY regarding these calculated "behind the curtain" manipulations by these "Friendly" lobbies is excusable to some degree ... Amah TAH KEYE ? ...

//iranian.com/main/2009/jul/amir-javadifar 

The Problem with the IRI is not the current Government but the Entire Regime that has lost its Legitimacy.

If you still believe in Reform within this corrupt Turbaned Dynasty well I hope your dream comes to fullfilment Very Fast because as Shirine Ebadi ( who refused to Vote by the way) said in her speach surrounded by Shiro Khorsheed Flags ( which she did not seem to be complaining for their presence):

//iranian.com/main/2009/jul/amsterdam-unite-iran-rally

 "People's Patience has its limits " ...

Those who question the Shiro Khorsheed Flag are at best "Nihilistic".

Its So Easy to be Anti everything. Its harder to be Pro Something.

As Far as I am concerned:  

I WAS, AM AND WILL BE FOR REGIME CHANGE !

Respectfully,

DK

Anahid Hojjati ... Oh Ma Pauvre Petite Fille ...

Your Logic is Incompatible with Reality ...

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

Nazy, practical as always.

Civic Center– The prohibited area is the central portion of the park which includes the fountain and paved areas surrounding the fountain and extends to the lawned areas to the north (McAllister Street) and south (Grove Street).

****************************************

So, we specifically mention in the permit request that the purpose is to hold a gathering to support the Green movement in which Shir o Khorshid and Allah flags are disallowed, as the flags are "demonstrating and soliciting" which interfere with the progress of our event . No special "flag police" crew is needed as the city code will automatically take care of enforcement and violation fines.  Wave a cat or a god, pay the fine. The city could use the cash.

Good arguments....

Unfortunately, I believe the answer to my questions about the presence of the shiro khorshid flag very much lies in Ari Siletz smart story. Thank you for sharing it and unfortunately or better yet, fortunately I would consider the dilemma as growing pains within a democratic community where law and order plays as a block. I surrender to that law.

Ms. Kaviani, or I like Nazy jan, if you allow me, I would never hate you or anybody for that matter, for their opinion. opposing views is what makes us look forward and grow, I respect it and hope that we all come out more resolute to what we believe in, in this critical period.

I have nothing against the shiro khorshid flag, actually I love it. It is a part of every Iranians history. Although I do not know where and how this flag come about to exist. Different elements of this flag belongs to different periods of our history. The latest flag of Pahlavi had a crown on it. What happened to the crown? Are we as individuals capable of deciding what flag represents a nation? Do I have the right to manipulate this flag in any way? I very much believe that is what happened to this flag by only MEK and Monarchists and now they are trying to shove it to the rest of us.

I know some ordinary people use it to show their opposition to IRI which is understandable and I have successful asking them to lower it in these protests but the supporters of MEK or Monarchists are ready to kill for it before they put it down. I have heard a direct threat from both in the last few weeks.

I also have no problem with MEK and or Monarchists to join these protests ( i do not want to sound like these protests belong to me, you know that). I have no problem to stand shoulder to shoulder with either one and unite against the monsters in IRI. The more the better, but I do not want to be counted as a supporter of the 2 organization just because I disagree with them on how they act regarding Iran's democracy.

There is a bigger reason why I not only like to be under that flag, I think it hurts the green movement. Here is why:

Do any of us have any doubts that IRi is armed to the teeth and they do not hesitate to kill and imprison our youth in Iran? When pictures and clips of our protests with the shiro khorshid flying around, won't you think it would give a reason to IRI claiming that this green movement is supported and funded by foreign powers? Hence tagging the prisoners as foreign elements? Have you heard of the recent victims tortured to say that they were inspired by CNN and Voice of America to come to streets?

Also, The green movement and all its struggle is framed within the IRI's constitution. All or majority of the green movement supporters in Iran follow the law of the land. I do not even understand why Monarchists and MEKs want to be identified with this movement? Have either had any shares in the uprising? Both to my knowledge boycotted the election, this is not their fight as their principal. But, as Iranians they have every right to be a part of, if they can draw the line.

I also know that there are a lot of people in Iran with the urge to overthrow IRI, but I also know that they are holding back their desire to get their foot on the ground first. We should learn from them. 

Sorry for the long post and if boring, I could go on and on, but this should do for now.

 Thanks for listening,

Peace,

Shaayad Keh

Ramona Your Funny ...

You say :"By the way, aren't you the zionist who supported the Israeli holocaust in Gaza?"

Please offer evidence for your accusations.

I am very interested to read them.

As for the Term "Holocaust" and "Zionist" in your sentence, I suggest you use words you understand before talking crap. 

In the Meantime YOUR Palestinian Passport is Available at YOUR Nearest HAMAS Embassy.

LOL

Romona

Perhaps YOU are the schizophrenic with split personalities! A part of
you defends killing Palestinian children and women with phosphorus gas...

Phosphorous gas? And you make such a propagandistic and hatefully dishonest statement in a comment where you are berating somebody else for not being sufficiently supportive of freedom and democracy? Is that supposed to be funny?

If there's some slim possibilty that you don't know how badly incorrect that accusation is, I suggest you do some research on White Phosphorous smoke munitions. For yourself. And I advise you to find some new friends, because the crew you are hanging out with is unhinged. 

If you did know that you were lying when you accused Israel of using poison gas just now and you did it anyway, then to hell with you.

Dear Anahid and Ari

O.K. Let's suppose that flags are not trivial and that use of different flags is not acceptable, because we cannot have concensus over which one to use. The organizers have politely asked people not to bring any flags or personal signs, and signs are available at the rally for people to use. Some people still show up with their own flags. What should be done?:

a) Have a "flag police" crew at the rally who will confiscate "unauthorized" signs and flags before letting the crowd in.

b) Let flag carrying participants enter the event at their own risk, expecting to be confronted by opponents.

c) Tolerate the different flags and let the show go on.

In the case of the recent rallies, options c) was used in our area to a great extent and option b) was used in some other areas as seen on YouTube clips.

Option c) is the source of your unhappiness with the event, however. So, assuming that your participation is absolutely needed, do you think in order to ensure maximum turnout, protest organizers should resort to options a)or b)?

Dear shaayad keh

Certainly I am no expert on this matter, and whatever I say is my personal reaction to the issue. I put here the link to The Flag, a piece I wrote on the subject while back.  In it I explain why the Iranian flag I like to use these days is one without any emblem or writings on it.  Though I use it, I am aware that in this shape it is a fake flag, because it is neither the one used before 1979, nor is it the one used after 1979.  But that's what I do.

As for seeing the other versions of Iranian flags at gatherings, the way I see it, "hijacking" an event would be if an established political organization such as PMOI (a.k.a. MEK) shows up and displays their leaders' pictures and such in the middle of a protest in which I am partaking.  I would then excuse myself from the event.  Simply carrying the older version of the Iranian flag does not feel like the event has been hijacked to me, and I would really appreciate it if you could explain why you think it would be considered hijacking.

I concur that carrying signs and "special effects" which comprise the "lowest common denominator" of the diverse political spectrum of Iranians is the way to go at solidarity events like this.  But I don't get all worked up about these things, for some reason.  To tell you the truth, I was a bit more perplexed seeing acquaintances at the earlier rallies whom I knew to have never voted in Iranian elections before (and they had their virgin shenasnameh's to prove this), carrying signs which said "WHERE IS MY VOTE?"  Just the same, I was glad they had shown up to the rally to show their support and to be counted.  Likewise I'm not terribly bothered by people's choices of slogans on their signs, not really.

The point I am trying to make is that people should come to support Iranians regardless of their political beliefs and nobody should be telling them they can't.  The way I see it, those who boycott solidarity events because someone is carrying a piece of cloth with bad artwork in the middle of it are bigger hijackers of the event than the ones who show up with it.  Do you hate me now, shaayad keh Jan?

Nazy, a short play siding with Shayaad keh

Woman: Sir, would you please move. This will take just a minute.

Clown: What are you doing?

Woman: I'm taking this picture to send to my little brother back home. He's stuck at home with the flu and I think the picture will cheer him up.

Clown: A clown in the picture will cheer him up even more.

Woman: Actually my kid brother is scared of clowns. At least take off the suit and hold a frisbee or something.

Clown: I'm keeping the suit. It's my right. And this is a public park so you don't own the space between the camera and the dog. You have no legal or moral right to ask me to go.

After the woman tries several different sites and the clown follows, she sighs and gives up on the picture altogether.

****************************

Shaayad keh's point about the flags reducing rally participation is not trivial. The presence of this controversial symbol at the gatherings hurts the Diaspora's ability to support the Green movement. It siphons gas out of our emergency vehicle into a private vehicle at a time when there's wounded to attend to. 

Dear Nazy, discussion of flag is not trivial

Dear Nazy, after your comment, at first I felt guilty since rather than commenting about pictues, I was commenting about Darius Kadivar.  Your pictures are as always beautiful  but we need to discuss this flag issue also since it is directly related to this demonstration.  Also you note that we have to respect all flags.  Why should I respect shiro va khorshid flag?  Under that flag, people were also killed.  Also under that flag, democracy was trampled and that is how we ended up with only people who had organization which was Islamic movement.  Is this a big request to ask people not to have  an Iranian flag with a symbol in the middle?  As important as pictures are, we cannot ignore the issues.  They are ramming this flag of shiro va khorshid into our throats in these demonstrations.  And this needs to be discussed.

With all do respect....

 Thank you Miss Kaviani for your beautiful pictures, your expertise and time and energy you devote reporting events as such.

This discussion of flag was started by me in response to Mr. Kadivar claiming that "And As one can See The Green Flag and the Shiro Khorsheed can Co Exist harmoniously too ;0)". I simply disagree with that since many people disagree with that including me.

I know this argument goes way back and I do not think either side could win since there are hidden agenda's behind the shiro khorshid flag until green movement came about.

What would a nobody like me is to do if he/she wants to support this green movement by attending protests that are hijacked by this flag. In all these protests it has been announced and requested nicely not to bring any flag and in most of these protest people show up with a supply to be distributed into the crowd.

In San Francisco, there was even a "drafshe Kaviani" flying over head while none of the organizers that I talked to had a clue who was responsible for it. Is this not hijacking the protest?

We only have this problem outside Iran. I follow the news as closely as possible and I have not seen a single protest or occasion that indicates that our brothers and sisters in Iran have the slightest tendency supporting this flag.

I am not a supporter of IRI, neither a Muslim. All I want to do is support of Iranians in their struggle without being tagged as Monarchist or supporter of MEK. what do I need to do to be able to do that and I know not only I am not alone on this, but majority of participants agree with me. What should we do?

Any bright ideas anywhere?

To me, the danger of creating a conflict in the protest would hurt the green movement. So, Should I stay home? Would the low number of attendance in SF mean anything to anybody? I am not directly claiming the low turn out to the presence of the flag but I can say it effected it.

If it is a question of unity, they should not bring their flags when they are asked not to do so. And if they must have it, more power to them by organizing their own and ask the world to unite with them. Who knows, I may even join them if i figure they are not hijacking other's protest.

I honestly do not know if this discussion at this time is deserved or not, it sure is blocking me from protesting though.

Thanks for listening and your time

Peace, 

Shaayad Keh

Dear Beautiful People

Thank you all for coming to visit my humble post and to leave thoughtful comments. I am honored. I am sorry I have neglected this thread all day, because I think the discussion around the flag is a very interesting discussion. We can have that discussion while being respectful to each other.

I don't personally understand the issue around the flag too much. I did write a short blog about it last year, but beyond that the controversy never ceases to amaze me! And I can't believe that at a time like this we should fight over the most trivial thing on the list of priorities. Please forgive me for calling it trivial, but that's what I think. Here and today is neither the place nor the time to worry about these kinds of issues in my humble opinion.

Some of us have just finished three decades of exile, self imposed or otherwise. After 30 years of feeling somewhat separated and removed from Iran and Iranians, we have found a new cause and a new resolve to express our solidarity with each other and with people of Iran. Heif neest, if we use the momentum to fight over something which is really removed from the urgent realities on the ground in Iran? Don't we have better things for which to put our keyboards and minds to work?

I believe everyone's preferences in the flag must be respected or at least tolerated while we move away from the subject as fast as we can, for this is not central to what is expected of us to be doing at this time.

At any rate, let me thank you all again for taking the time to react to the images and sentiments of solidarity extended from my neighbors to Iranians all over the world. I would like to wish that spirit to continue for all of us over the coming times, as that is the least we can do to help people who are fighting sticks and bullets to deliver a message on behalf of all of us.

Love you all, and peace for Iran.

P.S. I leave you with a link to a blog someone in DC wrote about the flag. I think it is a pretty interesting essay.

//shahmirzadpress.blogspot.com/2009/07/blog-p...

Hold your horses Kadivar!

Shayad Ke is not the only one to react negatively to the Shiro Khorsheed Flag which represents the dictatorial regime of the late Shah. Iranians have already cast their vote against monarchy. Now it's time to replace the "Islamic Republic" with a democratic republic, not another dictatorial monarchy!

By the way, aren't you the zionist who supported the Israeli holocaust in Gaza? How dare you now count yourself amongst freedom loving people fighting against oppression?  Perhaps YOU are the schizophrenic with split personalities! A part of you defends killing Palestinian children and women with phosphorus gas, and another part of you wants to support the likes of Neda against Islamic fascism!

Don't worry, I won't burn your flag or sully your chosen politics or religion. But don't you dare put down others for expressing their legitimate beliefs. Perhaps it's time you asked your psychiatrist for an anti-schizo medication for yourself and leave others alone. 

Ramona

Shayyed keh, kadivar always insults when his logic fails

Dear "Shayyed Keh", this is how Darius Kadivar (DK) is.  He insults when he cannot win with logic.  Those of us who read this site more, are well aware of his rude behavior.  You will come to know him too.  You commented :"But you have brought my identity, my health, my age and my sex into this..".  DK does that to demean people who have different ideas than him.  He should be banned for being a repeat offender on this web site but no he has a contingency of "shahiha" that results in him being around.  But many people know about his rude and crude ways.

One of my posts is missing

 For some reason one of your posts and the next subsequent posting of mine is missing. Do you have any idea how that could happen?

Anyhow, this conversation was about the presence of shiro khorshid flag into the green movement protests and many people's lack of support for it, including me. (just to remind you of how this conversation started).

But you have brought my identity, my health, my age and my sex into this not to mention involving Dr. Mossadegh, Dariush and Parvaneh Forouhar, Fraokhzad, Shahpour Bakhtiar and NIAC/AIC into this. Well, I wish I had a way to deal with all of them. I know all of them and I have a lot of respect for them. May all of them rest in peace knowing that there are still people around throwing their names in simple conversation.

In my missing post I wrote that my concern about the flag is a serious one hoping to at least illuminates me since you already know it all and feel I need educating. But I guess it is not going to happen today. Maybe some other time under a better circumstance and when I learn my history.

Sorry for taking your valuable time and now we go back to co existing! 

 Shaayad Keh

I am not used to using other people's opinion into mine but in this case i thought it might be helpful to read this from dariush homayoon:

 //www.irancpi.net/homayoun/matn_260_0.html

shaayad keh You Started Labeling Not Me

You labled the people carrying the Shiro Khorsheed Flag as Monarchists.

And if so what is wrong with that?  Did you see them burn or tear up the Green Flag anywhere ?  

I Suggest you learn a little about your history, and culture Before talking nonsense.

Maybe Spend Less Time with NIAC/AIC "experts" on Iran who are trying to highjack the  Green Movement and the Iranian Diaspora's Patriotism  By suddenly presenting themselves as the spokespersons for the Green Movement :

//iranian.com/main/node/74200

BUT NOW AGAIN WE ARE THE BAD AND UNGLY MONARCHISTS ONCE AGAIN TO BE BLAMED OF BEING THE NEO NAZIs ?

Maybe your Symptoms have less to do with Schizophrenia than Alzheimers.

I will ask my Psychiatrist, He may have a Clue ...

Oh and Also Add Dariush and Parvaneh Forouhar and Shahpour Bakhtiar or Fereydoune Farrokhzad to the List of those Slaughtered by the God Damn IRI for Holding the Shiro Khorsheed Flag as Sacred in their hearts amongst other things in Iran Zamin !

You are either VERY Young ( which is excusable and gives you ample  time to study and learn about your country) Or You are Simply Ignorant in which case I cannot help you.

Lastly Khanoum Or Aghayeh shaayad keh or Whoever You Are ...

Hamrazmanam !

//www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSPiOR2Y0_o

Best,

DK