Amir Parviz for secular monarchy

Personal attack !!!??

Have I ever said to you things that you are saying to me here or on the other occasions?  

 I just quoted you here ...  if quoting you is an insult then may be you should change your writing style.  

By the way, a blog which talks so unintelligently about women and only emphasis on her boob size can not get much intelligent respond from me ...  I, however, brought a few less known facts  about men and did not even play the game there ..... that blog was so funny that I forgot to laugh !

and my poetry and my blogs are dumb and unintelegent as well as my comments to the others based on my lack of understanding. 

I have one advice for you , do me a favor and do not read any of them.

Many thanks in advance 

VPK

In my view the revolution made the wrong turn for a variety of reasons that as RG said needs its own blog or blogs. But, in my view, the most important reason was the vaccum of alternative leadership to the religious establishment. The Shah had eliminated every possible alternative leadership, from National Front, to secular left, to nationalist-religious groups like Nehzat-e Azadi that did not want to topple him, but wanted him to be a figurehead. By elimination I mean they could not be active for 15 years to educate people.

Actually, many of the things that you enumerate in your scenario did happen at first, but a variety of reasons that are beyond what we are discussing now aborted them. For example, Khomeini did move to Qom at first. He did oppose taking of the U.S. embassy at first (but changed his mind). A draft of the constitution for a democratic system WITHOUT VF in it was drafted by Bazargan and commrades (and actually approved by Khomeini), etc.

Mammad

Shushtari

I did not attack you personally. All I did was expressing my opinion, explaining it again and again, and each time you come back with more insults. Saying you make absurd statement is not insulting you.

And, unlike you, I do not believe that debating politics is participating in a popularity contest. I do not care if each and every single commentator here opposes me. So long as they are respectful, I respond. Once, like you, they run out of response, I stopl.
So, regarding you, I stop here. Enough is enough.

Mammad

amir

i agree with you brother....

I lived in the south, in ahvaz and aghajari, and my family were in the sanat naft......and miraculously, all the british and americans knew that the shah was going to be toppled as early as 1977....they told my father that you should get out of iran, because the oil companies did not like what the shah was doing....standing up to them and asking for a fare share for iran, after 100 years of rape and pillage.

my dad blew them off, and said they were crazy.....and of course, we saw what happened- a semi-literate, pedophile, aka khomeini came out of nowhere, and within 2 years he was the new 'ghandi' !!

I wish that the shah would have agreed to keep the percentages the same- he knew he was dying, and comparing the irreversible damage and the trillions wasted over the past 32 years,  we would all be way ahead.

what a shame! 

Anahid this is important topic for iranian freedom

My view, many Iranians will not accept they made a mistake in 1979,

if you tell them that they say no, it was all good just that it became misdirected and hijacked, their hatred for patriotic Iranians is rooted in 1) misinformation, not being able to see the tree's for the forrest or what ever and 2) they are convinced Shah did not want Iran to progress to become a democracy, which during his sons reign he did want and had organized and prepared Iranian leaders for the task.

It's a question of no shame, or not being able to say Iranians were wrong and Uniting for Iranian Freedom & Justice First above all else. I forgive them, because I know they were deceived, they just don't believe it to this day.

Full blown religious fascists

have the upper hand in the VF regime, but not everyone that operates within this system is a fascist. As terrible as the VF regime is, there is still far more POLITICAL (note, I say political) freedom today in Iran than there ever was during the Shah after the 1953 coup. This is not the first time I say this (before you jump and say ahaa!). This is not because those in power want to give the people freedom but because people, by paying a heavy price, have earned it.

The nature of a regime, fascist or not, is not decided by the number of people that it kills (as important as that is), but by the way it tries to control the minds of its citizen and make them obedient to the laws developed by freely-selected representatives of them (democracy) or to a few powerful figure (dictatorship), or to the state with a single most powerful man (fascism).

Mammad

Vildemouse to get the facts you have to dig around in books

And even some books if they reveal too much the rights are purchased by cia front companies.

Shah in his book mentions that the president of ENI, Enrico Mattei was intentionally murdered by the US oil Cartels in 1962, the knowledge was from his connections in the usa for changing the game in Iran to an un precidented 50-50%, then 10 years or so later it was made to 75%.  Originally Iran received 5%, then 25%, the 50%, and lastly 75% ie regime change. 

//annalsofunsolvedcrimes.blogspot.com/2010/06...

The pity for iranians was that all Irans people which got free school and university, with the 75% deal would have in 1982 gotten free healthcare too, from the tyrant who served himself and his corrupt friends and not the people of Iran that we were all told.

Khomeini, did not change the 75% to 25%, until after the oil companies did him a big personal favor to keep his regime in power.  That favor was the Iran/Iraq war and supply of weapons from Mossad/Israel.  Once he was given the war to keep him in power, after that date he ordered to change it back to 25% to returned the favor, which IRI has honored in an islamic way and gave European oil companies a 75% deal since all US oil companies were on paper shown to be not working with Iran. 

The EU companies then paid the US oil companies a share of the cake under the table, the game of USA and IRI being aganst each other was not true in the past before the nuclear program issue for israel.

When articles on this come up in the free media they are taken out by US/UK sensors so it is never up for a long time online.  I remember an Italian judge ruling that in 2000 or so the ENI murder was changed from accident to murder upon catching the culprit and having evidence, yet the article disappeared in days.

To know whats going on you have to speak with powerful people like Ambassadors to Iran etc to tell you what's really going on and how policies are changing from year to year, not from the media that info doesn't work.  It create people like mammad as it is intended to. 

sosan khanom: Your increasing tone of personal attacks...

 betrays only a sense of deep frustration on your side.

Please dont take this one off response as an invitation for a round of name calling, as Your personal attacks  have been and will  conitnue to be ignored and will be deleted at the site admins discretion. 

soosan, you, despite commenting and responding to comments on every single topic on this site, ranging  from women's boob size to poetry and science, are demonstrating an astonishing degree of incapability in understanding people's comments. Dont know nor care about the cause, but please take your problem elsewhere, out of my face. It is becoming boring....

To put your mind at ease, I dont think either you or amirparviz are Islamist regime agents, as non of you'd pass their intelligence test!

Amirparviz, Lesson of day: if you quote a reference, at least READ it and UNDERSTAND it first to save yourself more embarassement 

This time, really over and outa this place....

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

deege kheili too much shod

all this talk.

amirparvizforsecularmonarchy

You remind me of something. My ex was talking to some big oil guys from Texas in the late 1990s. They were pissed off that oil was so cheap. They told her they wanted it well over 30$. Then Bush got "elected". Now Oil is over 100 $.

They are making money hand over fist. No wonder Bush had to invade Iraq! One more thing: I heard a Mossad operator on PBS. He said Shah asked them to assassinate Khomeini; they refused. Why did Mossad suddenly become "moral".

AMirparviz:

 Hence Shahs contracts with ENI for 75% were changed for todays 25%.

Can you provide a link? 

Reform requires the consent of the corrupt

i appreciate your personal attacks...

but, then again, it explains the 'oghdeh' in your gut  

anyhow, whatever progress the mullahs have made- would never be possible without what reza shah accomplished in a scant 25 years...

I also never said the political system was ideal under the shah- but with a population that had 1400 years of khorafat and nonsense infused preached by a bunch of no good bee vatans, it is nearly impossible to establish a modern democracy.  It takes generations to mature and rid itself of the superstitions and bs beliefs and to be able to embrace a true democracy.  

the country that reza shah dragged out of the ashes was filled with traitors, uneducated peasants, and religious nuts....all the while the brits, russians, and americans invaded and overran iran as they chose.....just the fact that he was able to keep iran together and prevent 'tajzieh' by the foreigners is a miracle in itself. 

as you can see, you are all ALONE here- all you have to see is other responses here

 you're not gonna convice anyone here with your arguments

btw, absurd ham ammate

VPK Rockerfeller told the shah in 1973 that a big

force was coming against him and that the Oil companies had reunited like a cartel to oppose him.  He told him that they were giving the cia, mi6 and mossad over $10 Billon cash to start propaganda against him, from universities to news papers etc.

They were one of several countries to implement the arc of crisi policy, they picked a nobody Carter to do their work for them, they elected him by dominatig the democratic party, they paid for all the environmental groups to stop the usa from using its own oil reserves and increasing imports from oil from 30% to 70%, they created the lie that the usa lacks oil, it has more than enough for itself for the next 200 years.

They hated the shahs policy of no wars and stability for the middle east, it keeps oil prices down, they want them to be high ad for them to get it cheap.  Hence Shahs contracts with ENI for 75% were changed for todays 25%.  They used Democratic wishes of the people, for islamic sensibility to kill themselves.  They did create a heavy propaganda campaign against the Shah.  Khomeini did not come from thin air, he was one of a few alternatives that they pushed, but first they needed Iranians to be ANTI SHAH, and they ate the poison like candy.

Mammad

What about my post what do you think about it? Does it make sense as why the revolution went bad.

Not at all Mohamamd

It was not meant for you. Besides why would Amir get offended by someone calling him a Shah Doost? He never hides this fact and he stands by it and I actually admire his honesty.  

My reply was to Roozbeh bringing up that some here think : 

"quite often, your arguments tend to turn strange turns, resembling propaganda of some sort on behalf of Islamist Regime. This has been pointed out to you by others on this site too."

Calling a person who clearly has stated his love for Shah and his hate for IRI to be a propaganda of some sort on behalf of Islamist Regime. is outrages.... and do you know why so called some others think of Amir like that ?  It is just because he disagrees with the U.S foreign policy and does not fall for AIPAC's Propaganda actually.  It is not just Amir , anyone here has been accused of that if they take that stands,

Neocons these days are accusing the American atheisits of being radical muslims !!!!! If this is not funny I do not know what then is ..... I guess because they can not accuse them of being anti-semitic anymore cause many of them are actually liberal leftists jews who are standing against right wing Israelis and the U.S unconditional support for BiBi's gang.... 

Now we here on this site are not immune either so we have to shut our mouths otherwise we are being accused as well and what is the worst thing to say to someone on this site ?  

I hope you see my points..

Roozbeh Gilani

Your lack of knowledge on your own people is a pity.

Look at this link or just google map of persia,

//karenswhimsy.com/map-of-persia.shtm

They clearly were killing innocent Persians in my mind, Based on the map, they can say many things. like persia does not exist today... or one day by force again well iran does not exist.

If they kill an Iranian in khuzestan in the future and call it the nation of Arabistan, "an Arabistani was killed" and get their historians at oxford and cambridge and harvard to  create a history for Arabistan like they did for Iraq, which didn't exist over 100 years ago ever, I will say they killed an Iranian.

Mammad call it what you wish, propaganda or whatever, its my view and based on something true.

Professor says Iran was "semi-fascist"?

Several hundred people were executed during the 38-year reign of Moh'd Reza Pahlavi, a regime that the Professor terms as "semi-fascist", "quasi-fascist", or whatever he wants to call it. Tens of thousands of Iranians have been executed by the current Islamist regime. So what would that make the current regime? Full-blown fascist or a "reformable" system?

Soosan Khanoom

I do not know whether your deleted comment was meant for me (I had nothing to do with its deletion either). But, if it were, with due respect you misunderstood it. I did not say, nor impliy, that Amir Parviz was a propagandist for the VF regime. What I did say was he is a propagandist for the Pahlavis. This does not need a proof. He has made it clear where he stands, and that is just fine with me. We are debating, which is good.

Mammad

You continue your absurd statements

Shushtari, because you either do not get it, or pretend to.

1. The point was SA also made progress under the apartheid regime, but no one sings its praise, rather it is remembered for its brutality. When General Francisco Franco died in Spain in 1975, Spain was at the height of its prosperity, but he is remembered as the fascist man who in collaboration with other fascist forces defeated the democrats and socialists in the Spanish civil war of 1930s. When Augusto Pinochet stepped down as the dictator of Chile in 1990, Chile's economy was in excellent shape, but Pinochet is remembered for his coup and slaughter of thousands. Saddam Hussein made Iraq one of the most advanced Arab nations, but he is remembered only as a brutal, blood thirtsty dictator.

2. The second point was some progress in any nation comes about because of the times, regardless of who rules it. Look at any dictatorship around the world and compare it with what it was 50 or 100 years ago, and you will see at least some progress. That is jabr-e zaman.

3. If building universities, railroad and dams are great achievements (they are important), then the VF regime in 23 years since the end of Iran-Iraq war has done more than the entire Pahlavi era. Iran had 2700 km of railroad at the time of Revolution it now has over 8000 km and will have a lot more in only 3-4 years after all the current railroad constructions are finished. Iran had about 15 institutions of higher educations in 1979, it now has more 70. The literarcy rate in 1979 was 49%, it is now 90%. Compare the number of dams in Iran now with what we had in 1979.

The point is, these are not the yardsticks with which one evaluates a political system, as important as they may be, which is why the VF regime is also hated. It is the legacy that they leave behind. The legacy of the Pahlavis are, (i) the British coup of 1299 and CIA coup of 1953; (ii) the secular dictatorship of both the son and father, and (iii) not allowing the political system to develop and hence providing a fertile ground for the religious dictatorship, all leading us to the 1979 Revolution, just as the legacy of Khomeini is the VF system and the 18000 people that were executed in the 1980s. That is why I always say:

Regime-e VF farzand khalaf-e regime-e Pahlavi ast.

Mammad

Mammad & Amirparviz

I don't think oil is really the issue here in all honesty. The revolutions went wrong because of its leader. Iran needed a Gandhi or Mandela: it got Khomeini. That is the plain and simple reason. 

In 1979 Iranian people gave their full support to Khomeini. They would do anything he said. If he was kind and wise and generous Iran would have prospered. Here is an alternate scenario:

• Khomeini would have stuck around long enough to see the establishment of a new stable regime. Then as promised moved to Qum to teach.
• As the first step had the best minds of Iran draft a truly democratic constitution. Then put it up to against a vote to continue the Monarchy under Bakhtiyar. It would have won with a landslide.
• Meanwhile Bazargan had his caretaker government do its thing.
• Given a general amnesty to all people. Including former Savak and Shah supporters. Temporary ban on executions to be extended indefinitely. Even allowed Rajavi to run for President. Let him lose fair and square.
• When the "Students" took the Americans hostage he would have come out; chided them and ordered the release of the Americans. Then apologized for the stupidity of the "inexperienced youth" and sent the Americans home.
• Accepted the overtures of Jimmy Carter with an open arm. Then thanked him for allowing Iran to form a democratic government.

This is the leader we needed and did not get. This is where the revolution went wrong.

VPK, in the link provided, it says clearly "Iraqi"

This link was providedas a back up to a claim, and the emphasis of Airparviz's comment as I read it is this man's "persian" nes . So I pointed this out to amirparviz in case he got the link wrong. That is all. 

BTW, no matter what the guys ethnicity, if a crime was indeed proven to have been committed by these soldiers, then they should be punished accordingly. That is in my opinion.

over and out. 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Dear Amir

I see no reason for that comment of mine to be removed.  I think JJ is losing it big time. 

But do not worry, those who have wrongly accused you on this site,  the ones whom should have read it , actually read it ...  

So Mission accomplished  

And I respect your honestly... 

Say what you want

Anglophile, but you cannot change history. You have no response to what I said in my comment, and instead jump on a reference. Any book has its critics and admirers. You do not like the reference, don't! So what?

And, for your information, Mohammad Agha was in the U.S. when the revolution started. He never was in any demonstrations. He did support the revolution - and he still believes in the legitimacy of the revolution itself - because like millions of others he thought that the revolution will bring a democratic republic.

Opportunist? What has he gained personally from the 1979 Revolution, other than losing his loved ones, friends, classmates, etc.? There has to be a benefit for an opportunist, before you call that person an opportunist.

Mammad

agha zadeh

what does africa have to do with iran.???

completely different scenarios- did the africans have a bunch of semi-literate mullahs who wre trying to keep the country in the 1200s?

 and so all the universities, the rail roads, dams, etc would have been built by the mullahs or qajars, right? 

I am not a monarchist by any stretch, but I will credit where it's due.  I bet you;re gonna say cinema rex was burned by the shah, and that he killed 30,000 political prisoners!

all you're doing is strirring the old bs propaganda that no one, but a few bache akhoonds, will fall for. 

the pahlavis made many mistakes, but they loved iran a lot more than you 

People of Iraq

The ones in the Eastern and Northern parts are Persians! They are either Arabist of Persian origin or Kurds. Remember the Capital of Sassanids was Ctesiphon. That is next door to Baghdad.

"actions of the british military on persians in Iraq"

Amirparviz: Just to let you know, the link you provided as a back up to your claim, Speaks of mistreatment of "iraqis" and not the "persians" as you put it, by British forces.

I let anglo respond to the rest of your comment...... 

"Personal business must yield to collective interest."

Anglophile how do you feel regarding the news today about

the actions of the british military on persians in Iraq?????

The inquiry considered why unlawful interrogation methods, including
hooding, white noise, sleep deprivation, food deprivation and painful
stress positions, were used during the Iraq campaign.

The innocent hotel receptionist's 22-year-old wife had died of cancer shortly
before his detention, meaning his death two days after the arrest left
his two young sons orphaned.

Are you counting all the ways you love the british today?  I give them an A for effort in trying to be more civilized than their American Cousins, but an E for based on performance.

//www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14845687

And they say Our Shah was a dictator!!!!!!!!!

Our Ignorance for believing it is one of our biggest blunders, it brought the Regime we have today.

Where did Soosan Khanooms comment go?

I wanted to say something but your comment dissappeared?????????

Why did the 1979 Revolution make a wrong turn?

South Africa is not Iran.

It does't have 40 Trilion Dollars of Natural Gas Reserves, strategically it doae not block both China and Russia from the ebtire middle east and the worlds oceans.

World interest is for Iran different than south africa.

Mammad, Most of the income from oil royalty if you had any idea about the complexity of the business is from processing the crude, In the 90's the figure for the profit from 1 barrel of oil was around $1100, plastics etc, not the $20 clinton was paying for it. This is why it is a curse that we can not just negotiate away.

You are debating a point on a subject you know little about.  That's the most likely reason most of your family was against shah.  I would add ignorance to namak nashnass.  Because Ignorance is what gives rise to evil.  The Regime is Raping Iranians economically and in doing so securing its own future with the EU/Russia/China.  The west can't find a better regime to serve their neo-colonial interests.  For now America wants to use Nato to divide Iran up, but Nato won't give up the IRI as easily as the USA, Israel does not have the same influence on it's policies.